The (New) Offensive Line Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

PRWR - pass rush.  RSWR -- run stopping.  PBWR -- pass blocking.  RBWR -- run blocking

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams

 

Team Win Rate Rankings

TEAM	PRWR	RSWR	PBWR	RBWR
Arizona Cardinals	34% (25)	32% (15)	48% (24)	71% (16)
Atlanta Falcons	49% (13)	34% (10)	50% (21)	70% (19)
Baltimore Ravens	44% (17)	31% (17)	43% (26)	75% (4)
Buffalo Bills	70% (1)	30% (22)	56% (15)	69% (21)
Carolina Panthers	50% (11)	32% (13)	51% (20)	63% (28)
Chicago Bears	35% (23)	34% (9)	61% (14)	74% (5)
Cincinnati Bengals	27% (30)	32% (14)	30% (31)	60% (32)
Cleveland Browns	70% (2)	41% (1)	73% (3)	68% (23)
Dallas Cowboys	55% (8)	34% (11)	42% (29)	70% (17)
Denver Broncos	25% (31)	27% (25)	70% (4)	72% (12)
Detroit Lions	22% (32)	22% (31)	65% (9)	73% (11)
Green Bay Packers	39% (19)	27% (29)	65% (10)	67% (25)
Houston Texans	57% (6)	30% (20)	56% (16)	74% (6)
Indianapolis Colts	57% (6)	41% (3)	67% (5)	74% (8)
Jacksonville Jaguars	33% (27)	27% (25)	43% (26)	62% (30)
Kansas City Chiefs	35% (24)	26% (30)	78% (1)	80% (2)
Las Vegas Raiders	30% (29)	30% (19)	75% (2)	72% (13)
Los Angeles Chargers	47% (15)	35% (8)	61% (12)	83% (1)
Los Angeles Rams	35% (22)	27% (28)	48% (23)	69% (20)
Miami Dolphins	39% (21)	18% (32)	53% (18)	67% (24)
Minnesota Vikings	50% (11)	41% (2)	61% (13)	70% (18)
New England Patriots	34% (26)	28% (24)	35% (30)	65% (26)
New Orleans Saints	33% (27)	27% (27)	43% (28)	73% (10)
New York Giants	58% (4)	31% (18)	45% (25)	72% (14)
New York Jets	44% (18)	35% (7)	30% (32)	71% (15)
Philadelphia Eagles	65% (3)	38% (5)	66% (7)	74% (7)
Pittsburgh Steelers	48% (14)	38% (6)	55% (17)	61% (31)
San Francisco 49ers	45% (16)	39% (4)	52% (19)	64% (27)
Seattle Seahawks	52% (10)	33% (12)	65% (11)	74% (9)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	39% (20)	32% (16)	50% (21)	63% (29)
Tennessee Titans	57% (5)	29% (23)	67% (5)	75% (3)
Washington Commanders	52% (9)	30% (21)	66% (8)	68% (22)

[RVAskins]

On 9/12/2023 at 5:18 AM, UK Skins said:

After what just happened to Rodgers this line from NFL.com could have been about us (and Howell). And worryingly could still be.

 

"Worries did arise during training camp and the preseason over the state of the offensive line's ability to protect the 39-year-old, though.

Regardless of the victory, those concerns have already reared their ugly head, dooming the Jets' best-laid plans for a season with Rodgers leading them to new heights."

Carson Wentz is still available.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

PRWR - pass rush.  RSWR -- run stopping.  PBWR -- pass blocking.  RBWR -- run blocking

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams

 

Team Win Rate Rankings

TEAM	PRWR	RSWR	PBWR	RBWR
Arizona Cardinals	34% (25)	32% (15)	48% (24)	71% (16)
Atlanta Falcons	49% (13)	34% (10)	50% (21)	70% (19)
Baltimore Ravens	44% (17)	31% (17)	43% (26)	75% (4)
Buffalo Bills	70% (1)	30% (22)	56% (15)	69% (21)
Carolina Panthers	50% (11)	32% (13)	51% (20)	63% (28)
Chicago Bears	35% (23)	34% (9)	61% (14)	74% (5)
Cincinnati Bengals	27% (30)	32% (14)	30% (31)	60% (32)
Cleveland Browns	70% (2)	41% (1)	73% (3)	68% (23)
Dallas Cowboys	55% (8)	34% (11)	42% (29)	70% (17)
Denver Broncos	25% (31)	27% (25)	70% (4)	72% (12)
Detroit Lions	22% (32)	22% (31)	65% (9)	73% (11)
Green Bay Packers	39% (19)	27% (29)	65% (10)	67% (25)
Houston Texans	57% (6)	30% (20)	56% (16)	74% (6)
Indianapolis Colts	57% (6)	41% (3)	67% (5)	74% (8)
Jacksonville Jaguars	33% (27)	27% (25)	43% (26)	62% (30)
Kansas City Chiefs	35% (24)	26% (30)	78% (1)	80% (2)
Las Vegas Raiders	30% (29)	30% (19)	75% (2)	72% (13)
Los Angeles Chargers	47% (15)	35% (8)	61% (12)	83% (1)
Los Angeles Rams	35% (22)	27% (28)	48% (23)	69% (20)
Miami Dolphins	39% (21)	18% (32)	53% (18)	67% (24)
Minnesota Vikings	50% (11)	41% (2)	61% (13)	70% (18)
New England Patriots	34% (26)	28% (24)	35% (30)	65% (26)
New Orleans Saints	33% (27)	27% (27)	43% (28)	73% (10)
New York Giants	58% (4)	31% (18)	45% (25)	72% (14)
New York Jets	44% (18)	35% (7)	30% (32)	71% (15)
Philadelphia Eagles	65% (3)	38% (5)	66% (7)	74% (7)
Pittsburgh Steelers	48% (14)	38% (6)	55% (17)	61% (31)
San Francisco 49ers	45% (16)	39% (4)	52% (19)	64% (27)
Seattle Seahawks	52% (10)	33% (12)	65% (11)	74% (9)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	39% (20)	32% (16)	50% (21)	63% (29)
Tennessee Titans	57% (5)	29% (23)	67% (5)	75% (3)
Washington Commanders	52% (9)	30% (21)	66% (8)	68% (22)

 

Thought our run blocking would also be a bit worse. Average all that out and we seem ok. If they have a similar performance against Denver I'm really hoping Howell plays better.

[RVAskins]

4 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

With the way Wylie has looked, I hope they kick the tires.  

Don't get Wylie to kick the tires. He'd miss.

Edited September 13, 2023 by RVAskins

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

PFF thinks we had the 8th best pass blocking in the league.

SIS thinks we had the 16th best (league average)

ESPN's metric also liked us as Top 10.

 

Looks like our pass blocking was better than we thought? Some issues with Howell trying to do hero ball and either holding too long or trying to buy too much time.

The OL experts..LOL

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Thought our run blocking would also be a bit worse. Average all that out and we seem ok. If they have a similar performance against Denver I'm really hoping Howell plays better.

 

I expected before the season a below average O line should be handle below average D lines.  That applies to Arizona and also Denver.  Later on to the Bears, Atlanta games.

 

To my naked eye the O line didn't look hot on Sunday and as much as I hate this off season work on that unit I didn't expect to see any struggles against Arizona.

 

If some metrics indicate it wasn't as bad as it looked in pass protect but the struggles were run blocking -- I guess I can live with it for now but that doesn't reassure me of anything about the unit.

[Hooper]

I feel like fans -- and it makes sense -- focus on their team while ignoring all bad offensive line play is around the league. 

 

We are no better or worse than most of the teams in the league when it comes to o-line play.

 

And my God, Howell just played his first meaningful game and fans are already worried about him. One of the reasons guys who aren't drafted in the first round rarely succeed is they don't get a real chance. The narrative is they must not be that good or they would have been taken higher. So if they don't play very well right away, they get cast off quick. And almost no young quarterbacks play at a high or even just good level week in and week out. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  

 

I watched all the games on shortcuts this week -- long flight, I had the time and wi-fi. 

 

Howell looked more than okay compared to a lot of the other young QBs in the league outside of Purdy.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Hooper

[Warhead36]

Yeah OL play around the league is just awful. Did you see the Jets? They made our guys look like Hogs 2.0. 

 

Truth is nowadays its just hard to have good OLs because most college OL are not adjusting well to the pro game with all the spread and quick pass stuff. In the NFL you gotta be able to hold your blocks for longer.

 

You need a good QB that can adjust protections when need be and a scheme that can get the ball out quick and counter blitzes. 

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah OL play around the league is just awful. Did you see the Jets? They made our guys look like Hogs 2.0. 

 

Truth is nowadays its just hard to have good OLs because most college OL are not adjusting well to the pro game with all the spread and quick pass stuff. In the NFL you gotta be able to hold your blocks for longer.

 

You need a good QB that can adjust protections when need be and a scheme that can get the ball out quick and counter blitzes. 

A big complaint for years has been there aren't enough decent QB's for the amount of NFL teams. That sparked many protective rules for the position (unless your name is Howell).

 

Now it's the OL talent that is lacking. Heck, even 37 year old Ty Nsekhe and 41 year old Jason Peters were being brought in by teams after the rough weekend. Shows the importance of drafting them more regularly and with more competence than Washington has been doing.

 

I know in the future I don't want to see rules limiting blitzing and can't see other rules that protect OL over what already exists. 

[RandyHolt]

I heard fantasy guru Jeff Mans say today that BRob isn't good running from shotgun/pistol. That he is too slow but that EB does it to buy a little bit of time for Howell.  And then proceeded to say he likes BRob this week IIRC so many he doesnt foresee lots more running from gun.  I mean pistol. never mind.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

 

Our offensive line is 7th best in pass protection from these rankings. This points a little more to Howell being a bit sack happy in style.

[skinny21]

Man, Bucs get a 100 from SIS, but 33 from ESPN?  Gotta love analytics…

 

 

[Conn]

 

[RandyHolt]

What is our primary run scheme - power or zone?  I think read: guessing we are power 80% but mix in zone. Is that close to right?

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

45 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

What is our primary run scheme - power or zone?  I think read: guessing we are power 80% but mix in zone. Is that close to right?

 

 

So, we do A LOT of inside power-draw.  Which, frankly, I hate.  It was a Jay favorite too.  Cooley said it was called Duo or something.  Out of Shotgut, tackles take a pass-set, and then hand to the RB who can pick the hole he wants to exploit. (Ok, yes, I know, that's what she said.) 

 

Which is one of the reasons why I think the second half running is more impactful than the first half running. We spend the entire first half throwing the ball, and then hit them with power-draws in the second.  We've literally used the pass to set up the run.  

 

And we do this a lot.

 

When we're not doing this, it's a very mixed bag.  To my eye, it's more inside power than outside zone.  

 

But A LOT, and I mean, A LOT of the runs are gun-run power-draws.  

 

The difference, and why it works with EB and never did with Idiot Jay, is Jay didn't set it up with anything, and it was predictable. He'd start the game with it.  And then run it 47 times for 35 yards and scratch his balls trying to figure out why it didn't work, blame injuries and not having a QB.  

 

Oh, I forgot, Jay is going to be on Sheehan's podcast for his weekly visit today.  I'm sure Tweedle Dumb will ask Tweedle Dumber about it.  Actually, I'm sure he won't.  I still fail to grasp why somebody who has zero credibility for football is asked about football.  Guy is like a mini-me version of our Matt Millen, and people still listen to his drek. 

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Oh, I forgot, Jay is going to be on Sheehan's podcast for his weekly visit today.  I'm sure Tweedle Dumb will ask Tweedle Dumber about it.  Actually, I'm sure he won't.  I still fail to grasp why somebody who has zero credibility for football is asked about football.  Guy is like a mini-me version of our Matt Millen, and people still listen to his drek. 

 

Damn, man, tell us how you really feel...  😄

[Conn]

Even a nepotism hire who flunked out of the NFL after a decade or so is a perfectly reasonable podcast guest and knows more about NFL schemes and playcalling than approximately 85% of informed fans. Pretty silly criticism, just because a guy wasn’t successful when he reached the absolute pinnacle of his profession doesn’t mean he doesn’t have worthwhile insight. 
 

Disclaimer: I don’t listen to any of these radio shows or podcasts and always really appreciate the recaps that you guys post and debate about. I’m not local and choose to use my podcast time differently since so much of my hobby time is already taken up by just watching football and posting here at work lol. So maybe Jay is a drooling idiot, but on principle I push back on the idea that because a guy sucked as a HC and topped out as an average at best vanilla offensive playcaller—he has no authority on the matter and nothing to say to educate one of the dumber sports fanbases in the world (talking about the NFL here). Nah. Don’t buy it. A guy like Jay can add a ton of value with his knowledge even if he ultimately failed at the top level in his field. It’s a ****ing podcast. Not a HOF round table writing the definitive football bible. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Conn

[Voice_of_Reason]

39 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Damn, man, tell us how you really feel...  😄

That was edited to be nice and not break profanity filters.

 

You’re welcome.  

[Conn]

good for him. Reading this sucks 

[wit33]

On 9/21/2023 at 6:10 PM, Conn said:

 

Intangibles matter! 

 

53 minutes ago, Conn said:

good for him. Reading this sucks 

Sooooo undervalued here, never understood it. 

[method man]

45 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Intangibles matter! 

 

Sooooo undervalued here, never understood it. 

Still undervalued after. Look at the deal he signed with the Raves

[petey hodge]

Anyone know why Andre Johnson (first round pick) was a total bust for us?

[MrJL]

3 hours ago, petey hodge said:

Anyone know why Andre Johnson (first round pick) was a total bust for us?

 

because it turns out he wasn't that good a football player.  He was a bust for at least one other team, and I think it was actually two

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, petey hodge said:

Anyone know why Andre Johnson (first round pick) was a total bust for us?

He sucked..

 

I'd like to just end it with that lol.

Not only did he suck but we traded up with Dallas for him damn it.

He was not athletic, slow, flat footed etc... never caught on to speed of the NFL.

I think he only made it one year in Washington before he was cut.

Edited September 23, 2023 by DWinzit

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

 

because it turns out he wasn't that good a football player.  He was a bust for at least one other team, and I think it was actually two

We took an undersized athletic ROLB and made him play DE and OLB in a 43 until it crushed his ability.