The (New) Offensive Line Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

23 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, we do A LOT of inside power-draw.  Which, frankly, I hate.  It was a Jay favorite too.  Cooley said it was called Duo or something.  Out of Shotgut, tackles take a pass-set, and then hand to the RB who can pick the hole he wants to exploit. (Ok, yes, I know, that's what she said.) 

 

 

Not so much this season but Ron ran plenty duo as well.  It's a staple gap run with plenty of teams.   

22 hours ago, Conn said:

Even a nepotism hire who flunked out of the NFL after a decade or so is a perfectly reasonable podcast guest and knows more about NFL schemes and playcalling than approximately 85% of informed fans. Pretty silly criticism, just because a guy wasn’t successful when he reached the absolute pinnacle of his profession doesn’t mean he doesn’t have worthwhile insight. 
 

Disclaimer: I don’t listen to any of these radio shows or podcasts and always really appreciate the recaps that you guys post and debate about. I’m not local and choose to use my podcast time differently since so much of my hobby time is already taken up by just watching football and posting here at work lol. So maybe Jay is a drooling idiot, but on principle I push back on the idea that because a guy sucked as a HC and topped out as an average at best vanilla offensive playcaller—he has no authority on the matter and nothing to say to educate one of the dumber sports fanbases in the world (talking about the NFL here). Nah. Don’t buy it. A guy like Jay can add a ton of value with his knowledge even if he ultimately failed at the top level in his field. It’s a ****ing podcast. Not a HOF round table writing the definitive football bible. 

 

Agree.  I'd wager a guess that Jay knows more about offensive schemes than everyone on this board combined.    If anyone here played QB, run multiple offenses, ran a team, helped run a draft, etc -- I'll back off that point.  But as far as I know no one here fits that profile.

 

Some restaurants have better chefs than others.   But just because one chef isn't as good as the best of the best doesn't mean I can cook as good as better than they do.   They are still doing it professionally and I am not.

 

I've listened to Jay plenty of times on these podcasts.  He's insightful.  Not once did I listen to him thinking what a dolt, I know so much more football than he does -- not even close.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinzplay]

There's a reason why Jay will never be hired as a HC in the NFL again, and it has nothing to do with either our previous owner or Jay's, shall we say, "leisurely" ways off the field.

 

He is no expert, and despite his agent's attempts at soliciting a job for him with Park Avenue, he can rest assured that will never happen. He is entertaining, with lots of good and interesting football insights to share. I enjoy them, but wouldn't wager my salary or Esperanza Spalding's phone number on them.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not so much this season but Ron ran plenty duo as well.  It's a staple gap run with plenty of teams.   

We do run it a bunch this year.  But EB sets it up better, so it has a chance of working.  
 

What Jay did was stupid on steroids.  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We do run it a bunch this year.  But EB sets it up better, so it has a chance of working.  
 

What Jay did was stupid on steroids.  

 

We seem to focus more on zone now. Last year was more gap.  At least that's how it looked to me when I paid attention.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We do run it a bunch this year.  But EB sets it up better, so it has a chance of working.  
 

What Jay did was stupid on steroids.  

Yeah, the worst first half rushing offense is key to our success. Just pass, pass, pass until it doesn't work and you have to figure something else out.

 

I'm not convinced EB is fully in charge of the second half. Castillo, Jordan and King are pretty well respected coaches. Best group since Harris was poached.

[method man]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

There's a reason why Jay will never be hired as a HC in the NFL again, and it has nothing to do with either our previous owner or Jay's, shall we say, "leisurely" ways off the field.

 

He is no expert, and despite his agent's attempts at soliciting a job for him with Park Avenue, he can rest assured that will never happen. He is entertaining, with lots of good and interesting football insights to share. I enjoy them, but wouldn't wager my salary or Esperanza Spalding's phone number on them.

 

Given the disdain they have for his brother, I don’t know why the league office would give Jay a job regardless.

 

I would think he could easily get a local radio show in this market but he seems retired given how much golf he is playing.

[MrJL]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

We took an undersized athletic ROLB and made him play DE and OLB in a 43 until it crushed his ability.

 

What?   Andre Johnson the failed first round draft pick noy whoever you're talking about here

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, the worst first half rushing offense is key to our success. Just pass, pass, pass until it doesn't work and you have to figure something else out.

 

I'm not convinced EB is fully in charge of the second half. Castillo, Jordan and King are pretty well respected coaches. Best group since Harris was poached.

If you look back at the play-by-play, EB’s calling a pretty balanced 1st down.  Some runs have picked up decent yardage, but most of those successes have come later in the game.  Early on, lot of negative or minimal gains.  He’s avoided running a second time after a minimal gain or running it after an incompletion.

If they pick up 5+ yards, he’s fairly balanced between run/pass on 2nd.  He’s leaned heavily on the run when facing 2nd and short.

 

I could argue that running on 2nd and long every once in a while as a tendency breaker might be a good idea, but otherwise, I think he’s calling it almost exactly as we’d all want and have been calling for for years.  And of course, in this scheme, the short pass game replaces the run game to an extent, and that includes the screen game at unconventional times.  Use the width of the field (including screens) to get the dline running to the sidelines, then lean more into run game as the defense is more stretched and tired.  

 

All in all, in IMO he’s doing a great job picking his moments to run the ball.

[FootballZombie]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If anyone here played QB, run multiple offenses, ran a team, helped run a draft, etc -- I'll back off that point.  But as far as I know no one here fits that profile.

 

I'm pretty sure a lot of us fit that profile. We all played Madden franchise mode at some point.

 

The foresight and vision on display from my ridiculous trades always put my teams over the top.

I could have gone pro!

[NoVaSkins21]

There was a clip posted by someone about Rivera re-evaluating the OL after this game.  That's extremely troubling.  The performance of the OL so far has been an abysmal failure.  This all falls on Rivera and Co. after they brought in Whylie and Gates in FA.  My feeling is that they will probably get their act together some time mid-season which is par for the course for Rivera coached team

Edited September 25, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[sjinhan]

I think we need to try someone different at LT... we already know what we will get out of Wylie which is just not good enough.  Put someone else in there, we have nothing to lose.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, sjinhan said:

I think we need to try someone different at LT... we already know what we will get out of Wylie which is just not good enough.  Put someone else in there, we have nothing to lose.

We really have question at both tackle positions, Wylie on the right side and Leno (a little better) on the left side

[markmills67]

LT  Leno

LG  Wylie

C.  Gates 

RG Cosmi 

RT  Lucas

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

LT  Leno

LG  Wylie

C.  Gates 

RG Cosmi 

RT  Lucas

On paper this feels like the best next option. I do worry about Lucas's athleticism moving like EB expects. 

If what they are putting on the field is really the best lineup as they seem to think, then I am hoping to see more Bates and Armah especially on passing downs.

Well that and lean on the run game more, our OL isn't awful at that and we have decent RB's. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I know we talk about how Ron isn’t the worst, and was what the doctor ordered after the Bruce regime.

 

There’s truth to that, from a culture perspective.  But…

 

He’s leaving the next regime with a lot of work to do.  Think about the OL Ron inherited as opposed to what he’s leaving them them with.  
 

I think we are about to experience for the first time in forever, an actual true rebuild - desperately starting with OL.

[KDawg]

I’m actually semi curious if we’d be better off with Paul or Stromberg at RG and Cosmi back at RT.

 

LT Leno/Lucas

LG Charles

C Gates/Stromberg

RG Paul/Stromberg

RT Cosmi

 

I realize Cosmi is a better guard than tackle. That’s not lost on me. But our RT problem is glaring. 

[DWinzit]

So just remove Wylie completely? I was under the impression that he has been a good G for a long time and played that position very successfully in this offense. 

I get an argument of Strom for Gates, but this staff won't make that change

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

So just remove Wylie completely? I was under the impression that he has been a good G for a long time and played that position very successfully in this offense. 

I get an argument of Strom for Gates, but this staff won't make that change

Wylie wasn't a bad Guard, just better than he is a tackle.

 

He just can not start next week. I'm sure Reddick has had this match up circled for a while.

[srtman04]

I shudder to think what abuse our O-Line is certain to take this upcoming game against Philly........I don't think our unit would measure up even in college at this point.      

[Warhead36]

Wylie looks like a complete stiff at RT. He's completely unplayable at that spot and will get absolutely torched by the Eagles this week. He needs to move inside.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Too many times, I’m seeing Wylie not even pretending to be interested in blocking somebody.  Which is typically a sign of not knowing the assignment, which is a real issue for a guy with the most experience in said system.

[Conn]

37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Too many times, I’m seeing Wylie not even pretending to be interested in blocking somebody.  Which is typically a sign of not knowing the assignment, which is a real issue for a guy with the most experience in said system.

I think he’s just that slow, which is crazy. He isn’t even being beaten by studs yet. I know when he’s playing well his technique is solid, but his reaction time off the snap seems two beats too slow which is wild for a vet 

[Voice_of_Reason]

26 minutes ago, Conn said:

I think he’s just that slow, which is crazy. He isn’t even being beaten by studs yet. I know when he’s playing well his technique is solid, but his reaction time off the snap seems two beats too slow which is wild for a vet 

I'm not sure I would classify it as "slow" as in physically slow.  I think he's actually fairly athletic for a big guy.

 

I think he's slow to recognize, and is easily beat (at times) by something he's not expecting.  If he knows it's an outside rush, he's ok.  If he knows it's an inside rush, he's ok.  

 

If he think's outside, and it's inside, he is slow to react to it, and by the time he does, he's toast. And vice-versa.

 

If that's what you mean by slow, I agree.  But I don't think his slowness is athletic.  I think it's mental.  

 

It's still slow though. 

 

The other thing I noticed live: he can really lean to much, reach block, and then his base is all wonky, and my 10 year old daughter could shove him over with a good shove.  Granted, she's a competitive swimmer who's favorite stroke is butterfly, so she's built like a brick.  But she's also a 10 year old girl.  And I'm pretty sure if Wylie was leaning over, she could give him a shove and he'd fall on his ass.

[NoVaSkins21]

Nothing against him, but was it really necessary to draft Quan Martin when this team could've gone OL in the 2nd round.  Same thing could've been said last year when they drafted Mathis instead of OL.  This FO and their coach centric approach is just terrible

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Nothing against him, but was it really necessary to draft Quan Martin when this team could've gone OL in the 2nd round.  Same thing could've been said last year when they drafted Mathis instead of OL.  This FO and their coach centric approach is just terrible

They fixate on drafting certain positions in certain rounds. They don't know how to amass talent or play the value game.