The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Mrshadow008]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Dear Lord are we really doing this again?

Dear lord did you read the part where I said I wasn't defending him nor was I insinuating he was innocent and was just basically playing devils advocate and pointing out some odd things about the case? Or did you miss that part?

[CobraCommander]

Here comes my bold prediction. Are you ready? Dyami Brown gets 800 yards and 4 touchdowns next year. BOOK IT, DUMMIES!

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay just brought up Ertz.  I didn't really think about it before that.  But not a crazy idea. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-zach-ertz-connection-continues-grow-and-field-eagles

 

As they were running off the field following Carson Wentz's 50-yard touchdown pass to Torrey Smith Thursday night against the Dolphins, Zach Ertz yelled something over to Wentz.

"He’s like, 'I love that, I love that!’" Wentz said with a laugh.

They know. They know that the more the Eagles can establish a deep game — something absent from the offense last year — the more the middle of the field will be open for Ertz.

Ertz and Wentz had a pretty good connection last year. Ertz ranked fourth among all NFL tight ends last season with 58 receiving yards per game, and his 5.6 catches per game led all tight ends.

But judging from the last month of practice and from the starting offense's brief preseason appearances, they look to be on another level this year.

“I think we’ve definitely taken a big step," Ertz said. "We’re seeing the game very similar. We’re both very high football IQ guys, so it’s easy to translate from the practice field or the meeting room to the game field.

 

"And just having the same quarterback for a second year, it’s huge for chemistry, especially when it’s someone as talented as him. I'm excited about it."

Ertz played with Nick Foles and Michael Vick as a rookie, Foles and Mark Sanchez in 2014, Sam Bradford in 2015 and Wentz last year.

This year, Wentz will become the Eagles' first quarterback to start consecutive openers since Vick in 2012 and 2013, and Ertz could be one of the greatest benefactors.

AWentz's comfort zone last year was Jordan Matthews and Ertz. With Matthews now in Buffalo, Ertz becomes Wentz's No. 1 target, and if the deep game blossoms the way it should, it's going to be difficult for defenses to account for both the Eagles' outside receivers and Ertz underneath.

We saw in the preseason game against the Dolphins on Thursday night just how effortlessly Wentz and Ertz are connecting on the field. Wentz found Ertz for completions of 12, 14 and 18 yards in just one quarter of action.

“It kind of speaks to the length of time and amount of hours we’ve put into this thing together," Ertz said.

"Not only talking but the reps that we’ve put on the field at each and every practice. When we get five minutes off, we’re over there on a separate field trying to perfect things. Hopefully, it shows up this year."

Ertz and Wentz are very close friends, and both believe that closeness off the field will lead to some big-time production on the field.

 

 

[Est.1974]

Yeah a few of us have brought up Ertz in the FA thread. Seems like an obvious move at this stage.

 

Has nobody bothered to mock up Wentz in our new uni’s yet ????

[MisterPinstripe]

51 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

My position is based on knowing exactly what our starting offer was and exactly what our final offer was.

 

My position is also further booned by numerous people who do this for a living that don't understand how Wentz yielded such a return. There are numerous postings out there alluding to such, but if you want an example, here you go.

 

 

https://overthecap.com/carson-wentz-traded-to-washington/

"From Washington’s standpoint this is a hard trade to wrap my head around if the reports of them taking on the contract as is are accurate. This is the second time in two years that Wentz has been traded and it seemed clear that the Colts were likely going to release him to avoid having to pay him his full salary. To give up picks and relieve the Colts of a $15 million obligation for a QB who is probably worth $10 million on the open market is crazy."

 

"This is basically a heist for the Colts who more or less admitted that they made a mistake by trading for Wentz last February."

 

 

 

Your position is currently based on what you think another team many have been offering. Your not arguing me w/ any kind of concrete evidense, just what you think is out there to support your narrative.

 

Thats not what I asked for. Thats someone on a website that doesnt think Wentz was worth the number of picks we gave for him. You are still ignoring the journalists saying that where were multiple teams interested in Wentz. I have no issue with you not liking the trade or the number of picks we had to give up. What I don't understand is your instance that we should have just gotten him for the 4th and the 6th we originally offered and that we just decided for no reason to give them more. You are still not getting that with other teams wanting Wentz the price goes up to get him. You have zero evidence that other teams didn't offer more then a 4th and a 6th round pick, you just showed me an article from a guy that says he thought we gave up too many picks. How is that showing evidence that other teams didn't offer more than our first offer? Because that guy who writes aritcles said that he thought it was too many picks that means other teams weren't interested?

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Dear lord did you read the part where I said I wasn't defending him nor was I insinuating he was innocent and was just basically playing devils advocate and pointing out some odd things about the case? Or did you miss that part?

 

Yeah I saw it. It came at the very end of an 11 paragraph post full of excuses for his behavior.  I'm just asking that we not go down that road again, they've already made their QB move and it does not included Watson.  

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Darrell Green Fan

[Skinsinparadise]

I agree with just about every point said that defends the Wentz trade.  The only one I disagree with is Jimmy G ends up more expensive.  I agree as far as salary but I doubt that it will take many draft picks.  Rumor is it could be as little as a 4th rounder.  Will see though.

 

Wentz > Jimmy G.   And Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is coming off an injury right now. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

First one I came across. I was asked for something showing that viewpoint and I provided it.

 

Feel free to parse Google and find a 100 more touting similar rhetoric if you so desire.

You can almost throw a dart against and map and find similar sentiment to what I have been saying. Its not a wild or even uncommon take.

Since when are random opinions evidence to support your claim?

 

Evidence would suggest you have facts that indicate nobody else was interested and Rivera and the gang were bumbling idiots that just gave away much more than they needed to.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

24 minutes ago, Conn said:

?? You’re arguing with and presenting as “evidence” opinion pieces that do not include the reporting that we had concrete competition. You have literally nothing but the hot take opinions of people whose job it is to publish an instant reaction and get you riled up. And they did. 

 

11 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

You have zero evidence that other teams didn't offer more then a 4th and a 6th round pick,

 

There is no evidence that a team offered more.

 

Aligning w/ the general sentiment feels a whole lot better than basing the crux of my argument on mystery pick package X from team random.

 

Fact of the matter remains is you cant prove another team offered a similar package to ours, and even if that information were to magically materialize, that does not change the fact that you have no ability to prove your standpoint in this moment.

 

With the information I do know as fact, right now (start point, end point, picking up full contract, Indy in firesale mode in respect to QB, seeming desperation after missing Wilson) we straight up overpaid. And there is a large sentiment of people throughout the media that support that viewpoint.

 

I'm good w/ my stance given the circumstances. I have enough evidence to support it, I don't need to hope and wish for more information to make it practical.

Edited March 10, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree with just about every point said that defends the Wentz trade.  The only one I disagree with is Jimmy G ends up more expensive.  I agree as far as salary but I doubt that it will take many draft picks.  Rumor is it could be as little as a 4th rounder.  Will see though.

 

Wentz > Jimmy G.   And Jimmy G gets hurt a lot and is coming off an injury right now. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what Jimmy G goes for. This trade helped the 49ers for sure and the next team is going to be extremely desperate... think about being the Steelers right now. Or the Panthers, who the hell is Tampas QB? I bet the market is just expensive and you end up being right that Jimmy is traded for less, but not by much. 

[Mooka]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Carson Wentz is the first QB NFL history who apparently bombed with this kind of season 

 

A.  9th best QBR in the league

B.  About a 4-1 TD-INT ratio

C.  Winning record

D.  For most of the season he was in conversation as one of the best Qbs in the league

 

Yet, you'd think we are trying to overhaul a QB with a Sam Darnold like season.  It's absurd.  

 

This is all on paper though.

 

If you watched the Colts last season then you'd have noticed that Wentz couldn't close out games. They were 1-6 in games where Wentz threw more then 30 times. (obviously you throw more when behind) Jonathon Taylor was the closer. 

 

There was no point in the season where Wentz was considered among the best in the league or at least I certainly don't remember any talk like that. Not even in conversation. He might've been among the best in the league in QBR at times on the stat sheet in hindsight. 

 

If you're judging Wentz as a top 10 NFL QB, then he had a below average year and the deal is highly suspect. No team in 2022 trades away a starting QB without a viable backup and no first round pick. Its a huge red flag. I don't care who or where or when. Red flag. 

 

If you're judging him based on the Taylor Heinicke offense we had around here.... its a huge win. Massive upgrade without trading a first round pick. Wentz will be able to open up the field and teams can't just stack the box and send the house every play waiting for Heinicke to throw the ball up for grabs. How many more wins will that translate to around here is tough though. NFL has so many variables to just say our offense is better so we'll win more games. We thought we improved the defense last season and it completely imploded. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, skinsfan93 said:

Can we please please stop with the he’s not much of an upgrade over Heinicke? I like Taylor and rooted for him hard last year but let’s face it, he’s limited with arm strength. We needed a guy who can make all the throws. Wentz is the prototypical qb. He’s tall, strong arm and has some mobility. Sure he could be a bit of a prima donna, but qbs tend to be. I live in Philly and saw a lot of things saying he is a hard worker. Even this offseason, there were reports of him bringing in Colts wideouts to work with even knowing he might be released or traded. 
 

Wentz is a far better option than Trubisky (a never was), Jimmy G (older, more fragile, more expensive) and Winston (head case). He’s also a better option than bringing in a rookie for this year (look at Fields, Lance, Wilson, and even Lawrence). If he doesn’t work out, next year’s draft has better qb options plus we could still draft a qb this year to develop. 
 

Lastly, sure $28 mil is a lot but salaries for any starting qb is out of hand. Hell Jared Goff makes $35mil. Every year there’s always talk of teams being in cap hell but they seem to work it out. Eagles were one of them last year but they managed to sign a few free agents last year and reupped some of their younger players.  
 

Im on board!

 

So this is how a Wentz fan talks himself into thinking this is a good move.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Indy reporter on 106.7

 

Felt similar to the Sheehan interview with the Philly reporter where like in that interview, Finlay-Mitchell tried to pushed back on the Indy reporter and steer the conversation to go more on a negative bent.   If Wentz ends up playing well, I am going to enjoy hearing all these guys eat crow.

 

Finlay went that the fans are divided in the poll they conducted on Wentz  and then goes what do you think?  The reporter goes they'd be positive if they were polled.

 

The reporter said they know Carson is competitive and she likes the idea of him playing with a chip on his shoulder, where he has a lot to prove.  Wentz she knows is uber confident.  She trusts Rivera making it work.    She likes the idea of Wentz facing Philly now twice a year.

 

Finlay-Mitchell push back and try to lead the witness about hey he has personality issues, etc.  The reporters flows wiith their points.  And that was the gist of it.

 

Look i don't mind our local reporters-radio personalites having a bent.  But IMO it comes off obnoxious when they push back to take these sources where they want them to go.  If you talking to people from Philly and Indy take what they say at face value don't try to lead them away from it or at a minimum at least ask a question to lead the interviewee to say something positive versus just negative.   

 

This is part of the reason why I pimp hard for Keim.  He rarely forces his opinion on things.  Not only is his gossip often correct.  But he's really balanced and actually listens to his guests.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[MisterPinstripe]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

There is no evidence that a team offered more.

 

Fact of the matter remains is you cant prove another team offered a similar package to ours, and even if that information were to magically materialize, that does not change the fact that you have no ability to prove your standpoint in this moment.

 

With the information I do know as fact, right now (start point, end point, picking up full contract, Indy in firesale mode in respect to QB, seeming desperation after missing Wilson) we straight up overpaid. And there is a large sentiment of people throughout the media that support that viewpoint.

 

I'm good w/ my stance given the circumstances. I have enough evidence to support it, I don't need to hope and wish for more information to make it practical.

I guess I shouldn't have expected much movement trying to put forward journalists provided information and logic to a zombie. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

This is all on paper though.

 

If you watched the Colts last season then you'd have noticed that Wentz couldn't close out games. They were 1-6 in games where Wentz threw more then 30 times. (obviously you throw more when behind) Jonathon Taylor was the closer. 

 

There was no point in the season where Wentz was considered among the best in the league or at least I certainly don't remember any talk like that. Not even in conversation. He might've been among the best in the league in QBR at times on the stat sheet in hindsight. 

 

If you're judging Wentz as a top 10 NFL QB, then he had a below average year and the deal is highly suspect. No team in 2022 trades away a starting QB without a viable backup and no first round pick. Its a huge red flag. I don't care who or where or when. Red flag. 

 

If you're judging him based on the Taylor Heinicke offense we had around here.... its a huge win. Massive upgrade without trading a first round pick. Wentz will be able to open up the field and teams can't just stack the box and send the house every play waiting for Heinicke to throw the ball up for grabs. How many more wins will that translate to around here is tough though. NFL has so many variables to just say our offense is better so we'll win more games. We thought we improved the defense last season and it completely imploded. 

 

I watch a lot of football, I even watched a few Wentz games last year.   I am comfortable enough with my opinion to ride with it.  My point wasn't he's a top 10 QB.   

Edited March 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, MisterPinstripe said:

I guess I shouldn't have expected much movement trying to put forward journalists provided information and logic to a zombie. 

 

You have no proof to support your stance. I know what we offered

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

There is no evidence that a team offered more.

The fact that we raised our offer when there were other teams involved IS the evidence unless you just really enjoy mental gymnastics. It’s how every single trade in the NFL works.

 

I’ll reiterate that the only reason you even know what our alleged opening offer was is because the Colts leaked it, bc they’re extremely invested in spinning the narrative that they just pulled off a miracle deal and the fans should be thankful they even got that much, to appease their fans who don’t have a 1st round pick or a QB right now.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm good w/ my stance given the circumstances. I have enough evidence to support it, I don't need to hope and wish for more information to make it practical.

Again, you have absolutely no evidence of any kind whatsoever.  But whatever makes you feel better...

 

Of my approximate 9,000 posts on this forum, about 8,900 of them are taking this organization to task for just generally being awful in every sense of the word.  So it's not like I'm some homer who just soaks up whatever this team does, in fact - quite the contrary.  I don't even love Wentz, nor am I even convinced he cures our ills.  But to suggest that there was no market for him and that Ron and the gang are complete imbeciles just giving away picks for the sake of it, is just your own bias taking over and leaving all rationale at the door.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

The fact that we raised our offer when there were other teams involved IS the evidence

 

Or we got desperate when the QB we were after got traded to another just a day before so we upped our offer on Wentz.

 

I can play the what if game too. You have nothing to support that.

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

30 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah a few of us have brought up Ertz in the FA thread. Seems like an obvious move at this stage.

 

Has nobody bothered to mock up Wentz in our new uni’s yet ????

 

I saw some on Twitter last night.  Made me want to vomit.  

 

Too much ****ing red everywhere.  Stupid ginger ****.

[skinsfan93]

15 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

So this is how a Wentz fan talks himself into thinking this is a good move.

 

 

What would be your solution? Russell didn’t wanna come here Rodgers reupped and Watson is an unknown. There’s no sure thing rookie qb in this year’s draft. So…

 

Dont worry I’ll wait!

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

It'll be interesting to see what Jimmy G goes for. This trade helped the 49ers for sure and the next team is going to be extremely desperate... think about being the Steelers right now. Or the Panthers, who the hell is Tampas QB? I bet the market is just expensive and you end up being right that Jimmy is traded for less, but not by much. 

 

It's tricky with him because he's missed a ton of games in his career and is coming off injury. I am watching NFL Network now, feels like that trade is coming soon. 

[kingdaddy]

33 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah a few of us have brought up Ertz in the FA thread. Seems like an obvious move at this stage.

 

Has nobody bothered to mock up Wentz in our new uni’s yet ????

We're all still in a state of shock.....give us time. 

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

What would be your solution? Russell didn’t wanna come here Rodgers reupped and Watson is an unknown. There’s no sure thing rookie qb in this year’s draft. So…

 

Dont worry I’ll wait!

Carr would have been an option and his named is being mentioned as a possible trade candidate.  But RR already got his guy.