The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

13 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

True but it's also quite probable that Heinicke makes the team and then will starts at anytime within the season when Carson Wentz gets injured.

That’s a bit different than dreaming up a scenario where the defense demands Rivera play their leader and hero Heinicke lol, which is what that person posted about. Like they’re gonna reenact that Rudy scene and drop off their jerseys until they put in Heinicke lol 

 

Everyone upset about the trade comp should feel a lot better now! 
 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Conn

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I still hate the Wentz deal. It’s such a bad look from a 10k view. It’s reeks of desperation and shows that this franchise cares zero about making championships. Just about making a run at the wild card. The strive for mediocrity the last 20 years is exhausting

I dunno, I don't think any one gets "desperate" to make the wild card...

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to two Colts reporters (I didn't hear most of the one on 106.7 from the Colts reporter just the ending of it, but heard all of the 980 one) and all of that one from the Eagles reporter this morning

 

Eagles reporter

 

A.  Sheehan doesn't like the trade, he came off a little dissapointed that the Eagles reporter didn't goof on it. The main takeaway was the Eagles reporter likes the deal from the Commanders standpoint.

 

B.  Wentz crazy talented.  At plenty of times he played great.   

 

C.  He knows Rivera and would trust him on a roll of a dice like this.  He thinks considering the price and upside it was worth the price

 

D.  Said Wentz was argubaly the best QB in the league from weeks 4-16.  Colts went on a 9-3 run then.  (For context the beginning of the season Wentz was hurt, the end the Colts like us apparently got hit hard with COVID-19)

 

E.  Sheehan lead the witness so to speak in the conversation that Wentz is uncoachable.  I don't recall the Eagles reporter saying those words.  But he led him into the leadership talk.  And it came off that Sheehan stuck the label on the Eagles reporter that Wentz was uncoachable.  But it didn't come off that dramatic as for his description.

 

F.  The Eagles reporter's description was this:  he doesn't think Wentz has bad character.  He personally finds him likeable. But he has a big ego and is sensitive.  And he has a mind of his own (sounds like Russell Wilson on this count, similar narrative) as for how he'd like to see the offense.  And he took it as a dig (like Rodgers apparently did in GB) when they drafted Hurts.   He's not an extroverted leader like Hurts is -- so he implied the dynamic in the locker room wasn't hot with the both of them there at the same time.  Now he didn't talk about that dynamic but I read that elsewhere.   

 

G.  the biggest news for me is the Eagles reporter said that Wentz wanted to go.   They tried to talk him into staying but Wentz wanted to leave.  If so that's the opposite of the narrative that some have that the Eagles couldn't wait to dump them.  The reporter said Wentz was the dude breaking up with them, not the other way around. 

 

H.  Sheehan sort of argues with the Eagles reporter about his optimistic take that its a good deal, saying they could have gotten Wentz for nothing.  He gets the Eagles reporter to back off a little from his optimism.  But even with Sheehan pushing back, the Eagles reporter doesn't back off that he likes the deal from the Commanders standpoint

 

I.  Minutes later Sheehan cites he's wrong on that they could have gotten Wentz for nothing where he talked about a text exchange he had with Russini where she told him Wentz had trade suitors.

 

J.  Other thing that surprised me is he said Eagle fans are mixed on Wentz.  Some hate him.  But some think they missed the boat on keeping him and are positive about him.  I thought previous all Eagle fans hated him but apparently not. 

 

 

Colts reporters combined:  I admit I got to listen to it again, the Eagles reporter narrative for whatever reason stuck in my mind better.  Was walking my dog during both interviews I gather I got distracted at points.

 

A.  Didn't get off to a good start because the preseason injury, came back sooner than expected then sprained 2 ankles.  Then not getting vaccinated didn't help.

 

B.  Thinks there were multiple suitors for Wentz

 

C.  Irsay was especially hot about how the season ended.  The ending of the season is the main plotline

 

D.  Doesn't know about locker room issues one way or another

 

 

 

 

On GMF just now, Garafolo says he doesn't think Chris Ballard wanted to do it.  Irsay driven.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

On GMF just now, Garafolo says he doesn't think Chris Ballard wanted to do it.  Irsay driven.     Shaun O'Hara praising the heck of the deal on GMF.   Thinks its a homerun.

 

Then Lesean McCoy comes in crapping on the deal on GMF.  I am really starting to hate McCoy.  It's not even just about what he says but he's so arrogant and off putting to me when he makes his points.   McCoy was the same dude slamming the idea of Wilson going to this team a few days ago on that same show saying why would Wilson want to go to a loser organization like the Commanders.  Now McCoy is saying Wentz = Heinicke.  Ridiculous. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CTskin]

12 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I've seen people repeat this line over and over about Watson. But why? Why can't Watson be here? What do people think will really happen if he came? The team will lose fans? Become a laughingstock? Get saddled with the worst owner in the league? Be irrelevant for 30+ years? Lose a lot? Oh wait, all of that already has happened. So really, why can't it happen with Watson? What really is going to change? Actually win games? Oh, the horror!

if it were me making the decisions, I’d do it. I’d pay A LOT.

 

I’d explain it in more detail, but the words can be taken the wrong way. Simply put, this team is trying to stay in the best light they possibly can. A Watson acquisition would not jive.

[Koolblue13]

49 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Irsay is a buttplug.

Not true. Nobody enjoys Irsay.

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

This morning a reporter wrote the following about Wentz " Carson averages one turnover per game.  Based on 85 starts he had 57 interceptions and he lost

28 out of 66 fumbles."

And Rodgers hardly throws picks and loses in the playoffs a lot. We'll get a lot of back yard football from Wentz for sure. Just like Heinicke. The difference is Wentz will chuck it 60 yards to the open guy instead of 4 yards late and high to the double covered guy.

[Riggo#44]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Not true. Nobody enjoys Irsay.

So....what are you saying?

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

And Rodgers hardly throws picks and loses in the playoffs a lot. We'll get a lot of back yard football from Wentz for sure. Just like Heinicke. The difference is Wentz will chuck it 60 yards to the open guy instead of 4 yards late and high to the double covered guy.

I really think our running game is going to be much improved now. No one feared Heinicke's arm and could stack the box.

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On GMF just now, Garafolo says he doesn't think Chris Ballard wanted to do it.  Irsay driven.     Shaun O'Hara praising the heck of the deal on GMF.   Thinks its a homerun.

Ballard has protected his relationship with the owner to protect his own job.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

So....what are you saying?

I really think our running game is going to be much improved now. No one feared Heinicke's arm and could stack the box.

Samuel, Terry and Dynami are more than capable of getting behind a defense, too. This offense is gonna seriously pop. It's built on the running the ball opens up the pass. If someone crowds the line, Wentz has one of the best deep balls in the league.

[Riggo#44]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Samuel, Terry and Dynami are more than capable of getting behind a defense, too. This offense is gonna seriously pop. It's built on the running the ball opens up the pass. If someone crowds the line, Wentz has one of the best deep balls in the league.

JT OSullivan also said the Colts OL were 30th in the league in pass blocking, 20th in pass blocking win rate. We were top-10 in both. We'll see what happens. I still think we overpaid, and I am not expecting him to be top-10, but people act like we didn't improve from Heinicke.That's just crazy talk.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

JT OSullivan also said the Colts OL were 30th in the league in pass blocking, 20th in pass blocking win rate. We were top-10 in both. We'll see what happens. I still think we overpaid, and I am not expecting him to be top-10, but people act like we didn't improve from Heinicke.That's just crazy talk.

I think they were pretty over rated, but from week 4-16 they were one of, if not the best team in the league and that's with no WR, TE and a bad oline.

[Skinsinparadise]

The local media mostly negative.  National media mixed, leans negative.  Just like Sheehan likes to say (but not in this case) the safer bet is to go against the overall sentiment. 

 

The most hard hitting article on Wentz was the one at the Athletic so naturally that's the one that has to be true and the one for others in the media to cite. 😀

 

The media loved all of the other deals this team has made at QB, just about all of those deals ended up crappy for different reasons.   So this is the one they don't love.  Good.  .

 

And naturally they are sticking to their narratives even as they learn more facts.  Travis Thomas who followed Sheehan's show minutes after Sheehan broke the news that the Colts did have trade suitors, runs with the plotline anyway that they could have gotten Wentz for nothing.  Not to pick on him but I thought that one in particular was funny because I was thinking dude your own station helped break the story yet you don't even know it or the story gets in the way of your narrative so you are just ignoring it.  

 

The other thing is as much as Rivera is loved, Chris Ballard is in another orbit on that front.  Ballard is like a God to the national media.  Ballard to them is the smartest GM in the world and the nicest guy -- the love him.  And look I am not opposed to Ballard, he's done a nice job, ironically outside of QB.  My point is they want to praise him any chance they can. Ballard is ALWAYS the smartest guy in the room to them.   So heck hopefully maybe the Garafolo statement this morning that he didn't think Ballard wanted to do it might help the narrative. 😀

 

But I think the most ridiculous of all narratives is that Wentz has bombed in Indy.  It's like the narrative is that he sucked in Indy to them.

 

Carson Wentz is the first QB NFL history who apparently bombed with this kind of season 

 

A.  9th best QBR in the league

B.  About a 4-1 TD-INT ratio

C.  Winning record

D.  For most of the season he was in conversation as one of the best Qbs in the league

 

Yet, you'd think we are trying to overhaul a QB with a Sam Darnold like season.  It's absurd.  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Wentz is a big upgrade over prewaterslide Fitzpatrick and everyone was happy about that.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

JT OSullivan also said the Colts OL were 30th in the league in pass blocking, 20th in pass blocking win rate. We were top-10 in both. We'll see what happens. I still think we overpaid, and I am not expecting him to be top-10, but people act like we didn't improve from Heinicke.That's just crazy talk.

 

Not directed at you personally but fans always think their team overpaid. This is not a bad deal for a potential starter. He at is least is someone who has the physical tools. He clearly needs the right support system both on and off the field. He does get an upgrade in tools, especially if McK and Logan came back healthy. Add a true #2 WR and even letting Sherff go the line is at least decent to pretty good. Defense needs to play better but is not far off the Colts, maybe better when playing right. 

 

Again, I am not in love with this trade by any means. I think the guy is a punk so I am jsut not sure they can get Carson's head straight. But if they do and he becomes your starter this is chump change. If not, you cut him loose but he at least gets you to next years QB class which is much stronger and with your 1s and 2s in tact. 

 

Not directed at you at all, jsut using it as a jump off point:

Just to get people preparing thier heads for it, do not be surprised if they restructure his deal to reduce the CAP hit. Add a year gauranteed, with 2 or 3 voidable years, spread this years salary over 5 yrs as a signing bonus and boom, you have $20M+ in cap space. Release or restructure Collins and get over $30M.  

[SoCalSkins]

I just finished watching all of Hard Knocks. Very entertaining actually. They did a great job with it. I don’t know why I didn’t watch it when it came out.  So it’s 100% the vaccine that ended it. They got decimated at the end of the season. Wentz didn’t practice the week of their second to last game against the Raiders and the wheels came off. Frank Reich loves Carson like his own kid on the show. Irsay is a cartoon version of Dan and Jerry Jones combined with more ego 1000x more hands on. If you watch his tarmac video at the end of their season it’s obvious he’s the decision maker. 
 

I really think we lucked out. Finally something seems to go our way. 

[SpacePenguin]

15 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Not directed at you at all, jsut using it as a jump off point:

Just to get people preparing thier heads for it, do not be surprised if they restructure his deal to reduce the CAP hit. Add a year gauranteed, with 2 or 3 voidable years, spread this years salary over 5 yrs as a signing bonus and boom, you have $20M+ in cap space. Release or restructure Collins and get over $30M.  

 

Yeah, I'm reserving judgement on this whole thing until I see the inevitable "Wentztention".

 

I will state that I'm glad it wasn't Garropolo.

[Andre The Giant]

Fowler is connected.  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Andre The Giant

[KillBill26]

The skins are an easy target, for many reasons.  It's easy to criticize us.

 

Many were bashing us how we are an organization no one wants to come to.  Stafford, then Wilson, and supposedly Jimmy g.

 

Many are also saying why trade anything for Wentz, you couldve gotten him for nothing by signing him after he was cut.  But wait a minute, no one wants to come here, right?   How do we sign a free agent, who has other options, against their will?  

 

There was no way we would've gotten a starting caliber qb without overpaying.  Yes we overpaid.  However, the cost isn't crippling, and the upside is worth the risk.

Edited March 10, 2022 by KillBill26

[Llevron]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Samuel, Terry and Dynami are more than capable of getting behind a defense, too. This offense is gonna seriously pop. It's built on the running the ball opens up the pass. If someone crowds the line, Wentz has one of the best deep balls in the league.

 

I just hope we keep running the ball to set it up. I am a bit paranoid that we did that because the QB was limited, and with a stronger arm back there we will be more inclined to pass more. 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

I just hope we keep running the ball to set it up. I am a bit paranoid that we did that because the QB was limited, and with a stronger arm back there we will be more inclined to pass more. 

Thats the Norvell way.

[SpacePenguin]

1 minute ago, KillBill26 said:

There was no way we would've gotten a starting caliber qb without overpaying.  Yes we overpaid.  However, the cost isn't crippling, and the upside is worth the risk.

 

The only way to get a QB without overpaying is drafting and developing one. Just the way the league is....

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Everyone upset about the trade comp should feel a lot better now! 

 

Oh boy, an extra ham sammich

 

 

 

Still got the non bristle side of broom on this deal. Indy was in firesale mode w/ him.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Thats the Norvell way.

 

What sorcery is this?? 

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wentz is a big upgrade over prewaterslide Fitzpatrick and everyone was happy about that.

 

Yep.  And this is coming from one of Fitz's biggest fans.

 

Personally, I loved Wentz early in his career.  I was turned off by that long story if I recall it was via ESPN that talked about the ego issues with him at Philly.  And as you know, initially I was opposed to the idea on first thought early this off season. 

 

But here's where I changed my mind.  I changed my mind when I started doing apples to apples comparisons with other possibilities.  I didn't turn against Trubisky until after I delved in deeper for example.  Didn't love or hate Jimmy G but was concerned about his durability -- ditto Mariota.   And as far as reclamation projects, Wentz to me is the ultimate version of it because it doesn't really involve even a reclamaton -- we need him to be basically recharged in a new place.

 

As for Wentz's personality, it doesn't seem as bad as I initially thought.  I don't love it but to me its not a deal breaker.  He comes off a little like Kirk -- midwestern, religious dude.  Not the most extroverted guy in the locker room, is more of a guy who has a clique in the lockerroom but not pals with everyone.    Sounds a bit like Kirk who I recall reading was pals with Will Compton and with a smallish clique in the locker room.  It's not as if Kirk was rude to the others but kept more to himself from what I've heard.  Wentz comes off the same way at times from what I've heard.  But I don't get the impression he's unfriendly.  

 

That is, I don't get the impression that Wentz is an A-hole with teammates like a Jeff George but he's more of an aloof dude in some settings and not the typical vocal in the locker room kind of leader all the time. On the field though as I mentioned, he seems loud as heck, and comes off extroverted.  So I am getting the picture that he's maybe quiet in the locker room sometimes, but loud on the field.

 

But the bottom line is if someone with a talent like Wentz didn't have flaws, we'd have no shot at him.    If the Colts loved everything about him we'd be looking at him from afar. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

In comparing this trade to the Alex Smith trade, I think the compensation is slightly more here (though that depends on how you viewed Fuller at the time).  But, he doesn’t have guaranteed money past this year (unlike Smith’s extension) and I believe Smith was significantly more of a hit on the cap percentage wise, IIRC.   

Smith was a great guy and fairly solid qb (at the time of the trade at least), but Wentz gives us the quick strike, deep ball excitement that could really transform our offense (and the way it’s perceived around the league).  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t love the trade, but I think it’s a solid move.  No guarantees it works out of course, but the potential is there.