The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Do we need to make sure we go up and get Thomas....some how some way? 

 

His PFF rating is wicked with go-post routes.  Their rankings aren't perfect by any stretch.  But the idea behind it is to judge the throw regardless of the catch.

 

And I by and large agree with them.  It's not like every deep ball is perfect.  But if you watch enough QBs, I find them generally erratic with the deep ball and the completion rate isn't of course nearly the same as first-2nd level throws.  Daniels isn't perfect, sometimes he will underthrow them but not too many erratic throwswith the deep ball -- receivers have a chance to come up with the ball. 

 

As to the deep ball, he sort of reminds me of a rich man's Tua on that front.  Tua doesn't have a gun but puts good air and good accuracy on the deep ball albiet sometimes underthrows them.

 

Brian Thomas is the perfect WR for Daniels IMO because he's fast, big and can track a ball well.  I don't know if I'd go nuts to get him.  I think a receiver though who is fast (especially fast more so than big) and can track the deep ball well would be helpful.  lol, not that it wouldn't be a boom to Maye, too -- he can throw a nice deep ball, too.

 

I think later in the draft, Jermaine Burton fits a poor man's version of this skill.  Sticky hands, makes contested catches, tracks the ball well, brings some deep threat ability.  He's no Thomas though.  And there are character concerns.   Troy Franklin isn't that physical but brings some deep ball ability.  Legette maybe.

 

Roman Wilson wasn't used much deep but flashed some on that front when watching him.  For a dude that isn't big, he's not bad with contested catches and has good hands.

 

But Thomas is perfect, no doubt.  Lol, so would be Tyreek Hill.  Desean Jackson back in the day.

Edited April 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

So it really comes down to either which one fits the offense you want to run better. Or (better) which one you think you can design the most effective (long term) offense around. 
 

You can see what we would run around Daniel’s - lots of zone read/RPO with quick game/screens and built in deep shots. 
 

Maye a more consistently vertical passing game with lots of deep overs, digs and skinny posts and play action off a power/gap/inside zone running scheme. Much less quick game. 

 

Which do we believe gives us the best chance to win over the long term - not just year one or two? Because we need to build a roster around whoever we pick and on the offensive side they need to fit what we are going to do. Which will be very different depending which QB we take.

 

(None of the above is really Air Raid - but we don’t believe from what has been said that we will running pure Air Raid.)

 

I think Maye fits more traditionally what Kingsbury would like.  But I think the offense would look quite a bit like the Lions offense: a lot of power running and then attack the second level off of play action.  Some shotgun play action sprinkled in.  But it would be much more run and vertical passing game offense. At least initially.  
 

Daniels I think they use his legs more and they use a lot more variety with the short to intermediate routes, then find ways to get deep shots down the field.  More diverse running game, but they probably pass more because they’ll do more “short pass substitute for a run” stuff where as with Maye they’ll just run.  
 

The other factor is, do they think they can “fix” Maye’s inaccuracy and mechanics?  If so, then that factors in because they can’t give Daniels a stronger arm. 

 

Btw I was in London over spring break and my son loves the double decker busses and the tube.  Probably more than anything we actually saw he loved the public transport. He and a friend got to sit in the front seats on the top and that might have been the highlight of the trip.   So cheerio for that…

Edited April 14 by Voice_of_Reason

[Bifflog]

32 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

All right, I’ll say this. I will be OK with us picking Jayden Daniels if he turns out to be good.

 

I'll go even further than this, anybody else who turns out to be good in the entire draft after #2... I'm good with taking them as well.

Edited April 15 by Bifflog

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I had a lot if crazy stuff happen yesterday so I didn't get around to listening to this until a few moments ago.

 

SIP, if anything, you actually undersold Cooley's enthusiasm for Daniels. I was absolutely stunned listening to it. 

 

I don't think I've EVER heard Cooley give a more enthusiastic endorsement for a college player,  let alone a college quarterback.

 

Yes, Cooley is just one guy and it's just one opinion, but it is one hell of an endorsement from a man with no skin in the game who in the past has not hesitated to eviscerate potential draft picks.

 

I'm going to post a few quotes from the interview later, but I'll offer one of Cooley's strongest quotes now:

 

"How is this not our pick at two?...This is my guy. I love him!"

 

I suggest that anyone who hasn't done so already (EVEN IF YOU HATE DANIELS) should take the time to listen to Cooley's interview with Sheehan.

 

I'm not saying it will change anyone's mind because I know it won't and I'm not trying to do that anyway.

 

I respect everyones right to have their own opinion.  And at this point, with under 2 weeks left,  those who are strongly committed, one way or the other, aren't likely to be persuaded-- and I get that.

 

I just think it might make it easier to stomach for some if we do end up drafting him.

 

Then again maybe that's a wound that only time and/or future succes will heal.

 

 

 

No one is perfect with QB evaluations.  But Cooley from my memory is at least as good as any I've listened to.  Also he tends to be cynical often.  Like I said I heard it got him in trouble with the Redskins brass back in the day -- trashing their picks, FA signings, etc.

 

Among the stuff he was right about:  killed RG3 before it became commonly accepted and said Kirk was the clear better QB.  Now its duh but he did it before it became cool.  Trashed Haskins as a bad pick from the jump.  He actually wasn't that high on Howell's college tape when Sheehan asked him to review him last summer, he was OK with him, he didn't hate him but he was far from gushing.  I don't recall exactly what he said about him but I do recall posting it on the QB thread before the season and it wasn't well received. 😎

 

Probably his best was picking Josh Allen who he loved as the best of the draft.  That was far from consensus before that draft.  I believe he liked Lamar but my memory is faint on that so I might be wrong.

 

He trashed a lot of the FA signings that Bruce made and was mostly right about it.

 

My point is the dude is far from a pollyana in his evaluations.   He tends to like toolsy QBs for better or worse so i would be surprised if he doesn't like Maye, too.  He already hinted in that podcast that he watched a little Maye and he expects to like him.

 

But yeah back to Daniels.  He was defintiely smitten.  And while Cooley could be wrong just like any of us here -- I'll give him that he's not an easy mark as to being a glass half full guy when watching prospects.  

 

 

Edited April 15 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Llevron said:

That’s exactly what Jayden Daniels’ agent wants you to say….🤥

I still don’t understand how it benefited LSU to lie about his playing weight. Do you think the NFL team he is drafted by is gonna lie to? Will we EVER know? 

College's are notorious for having crazy off measurements in terms of height and weight. It happens all the time. Not sure if its because the guys grow in college, or they're just inexact, or they're trying to give favorable measurements, but it would not be shocking at all to find out that he was much lighter during the season then he was if he had measured at the combine etc. There's a reason 190 lb rb's try to put on weight like crazy before the combine/pro days. They're trying to fudge the #'s. It's all of a piece. The heavier Daniels can sell himself the better as it's one of his knocks. 

[cboatner]

1. I want for the Comms to pick the BAQB (Best Available QB),
2. I want the Comms to select DM and let him sit,
3. I think that they will select JD based upon KK's answering "The KC QB" when asked for nan example of his ideal QB. Having said that,
4. I doubt that more than two of the 1st five-six QBs selected in the '24 draft will pan out as long-term starters, and
5. I doubt that JD, at the 14th percentile size of pro QBs is going to be more than a footnote five years from now.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

College's are notorious for having crazy off measurements in terms of height and weight. It happens all the time. Not sure if its because the guys grow in college, or they're just inexact, or they're trying to give favorable measurements, but it would not be shocking at all to find out that he was much lighter during the season then he was if he had measured at the combine etc. There's a reason 190 lb rb's try to put on weight like crazy before the combine/pro days. They're trying to fudge the #'s. It's all of a piece. The heavier Daniels can sell himself the better as it's one of his knocks. 

Yeah, the fact that he dint run at his pro day where he had put on extra weight makes me dismiss it to some extent. I think that's something guys with concerns about weight do often. Put on some extra food weight but you don't want to run if that's what you did. the weight will slow you down. I think the standard is to get weighed at the combine with extra weight and then drop it and run at the pro day.

[ntotoro]

34 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

Maye has a local fan:

 

 

Call me Sybil, I'm not so sure now... 🤣

[mudhog]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Conclusion:  I prefer Maye but I don't get the angst unless its 100% about his durability.  That's my concern so I get that.  

This is my dread about JD. It's ALL about his durability for me. If it were not for his slender build and his propensity to put himself in danger by running, it would be an apples to apples comparison as far as I'm concerned. This is the most important/expensive position on the team. He needs to have a shelf-life longer than 1-2yrs.

[Skinsinparadise]

If I had to take on both the Maye critics and Daniels critics on one thing.

 

A. Maye critics -- The O'Sullivan line that takes a dig on the idea that Maye doesn't throw the ball well.  Look he was bad in 3 games.  It happens.  In the NFL, good starters also have bad games.  Take those 3 games out and explain to me that Maye is a bad QB especially factoring 2022.   He was somewhere between good to great throught the majority of the other games and he did it with a bad supporting cast. 

 

B. Daniels. His running is overrated -- straight line runner ala RG3.  I would say at this point I've watched more Daniels runs than anything I've watched period for this draft.  He's special as a runner.  Electric.  Plenty of wiggle.  Can get skinny in the hole.  He does it veritically, horizontally.   No one is Lamar but it wouldn't shock me if he's the next best runner.  He has good peripheral vision and dodges pressure in the pocket and open field well.  As for injury, that's a different discussion, I got concerns on that front considering he's too fearless for my taste -- that mindset needs to beaten out of him where he wants to dodge defender number 4 on a long run or trust his ability to dodge a defender in tight spaces. 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, mudhog said:

This is my dread about JD. It's ALL about his durability for me. If it were not for his slender build and his propensity to put himself in danger by running, it would be an apples to apples comparison as far as I'm concerned. This is the most important/expensive position on the team. He needs to have a shelf-life longer than 1-2yrs.

 

I think I'd still prefer Maye even without the durability concern.  But I do think on the chance (off chance?) Daniels can stay healthy, I think he will be a good QB.  

 

But yeah I am not vouching for his durability.  I got concerns. 

 

Watching him today, if I am this FO and they took him, I'd make plans to really work with him on making off platform throws.  I think he has it in him, his flashes on that front are a blast.  He would protect himself much better if he made a habit of throwing off platform versus taking off.  Also I think it would keep defenses more honest trying to defend him and in turn highten the element of surprise when he does take off.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

33 minutes ago, cboatner said:

I think that they will select JD based upon KK's answering "The KC QB" when asked for nan example of his ideal QB.

Daniels isn’t really like the KC quarterback.

Edited April 15 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Hooper]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

Maye has a local fan:

 

 

Oh boy, this is not good for Maye. CR is the kiss of death.

[Voice_of_Reason]

27 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

Call me Sybil, I'm not so sure now... 🤣

The screaming idiot endorsed Maye?

 

Im going out to buy a Daniel’s jersey 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

His PFF rating is wicked with go-post routes.  Their rankings aren't perfect by any stretch.  But the idea behind it is to judge the throw regardless of the catch.

 

And I by and large agree with them.  It's not like every deep ball is perfect.  But if you watch enough QBs, I find them generally erratic with the deep ball and the completion rate isn't of course nearly the same as first-2nd level throws.  Daniels isn't perfect, sometimes he will underthrow them but not too many erratic throwswith the deep ball -- receivers have a chance to come up with the ball. 

 

As to the deep ball, he sort of reminds me of a rich man's Tua on that front.  Tua doesn't have a gun but puts good air and good accuracy on the deep ball albiet sometimes underthrows them.

 

Brian Thomas is the perfect WR for Daniels IMO because he's fast, big and can track a ball well.  I don't know if I'd go nuts to get him.  I think a receiver though who is fast (especially fast more so than big) and can track the deep ball well would be helpful.  lol, not that it wouldn't be a boom to Maye, too -- he can throw a nice deep ball, too.

 

I think later in the draft, Jermaine Burton fits a poor man's version of this skill.  Sticky hands, makes contested catches, tracks the ball well, brings some deep threat ability.  He's no Thomas though.  And there are character concerns.   Troy Franklin isn't that physical but brings some deep ball ability.  Legette maybe.

 

Roman Wilson wasn't used much deep but flashed some on that front when watching him.  For a dude that isn't big, he's not bad with contested catches and has good hands.

 

But Thomas is perfect, no doubt.  Lol, so would be Tyreek Hill.  Desean Jackson back in the day.

Great details in your answer, much appreciated!

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The screaming idiot endorsed Maye?

 

Im going out to buy a Daniel’s jersey 

Luvu is who you want.

[Conn]

I’ve been watching more Daniels to talk myself into it if that’s the way we go. I prefer Maye, many of the people whose opinions I respect prefer Maye—but at the end of the day, it’s not gonna be healthy for me to have a negative reaction on draft night on what should be a celebratory weekend—new owner, new GM, new coaching staff, #2 pick in a great QB class being just the first of many premium draft picks…I need to get over myself, is my viewpoint.

 

On the other hand, I just don’t believe the smoke. Right up until draft day people thought guys like Levis and Willis were going top 5. Just a few years ago people, including Schefter, swore up and down that the 49ers were taking Mac Jones. I just don’t believe the smoke is smoke, as much as it’s scuttlebutt coming from particular NFL sources, reported by legit guys like Keim and Schefter, and then repeated by less connected people until it’s an echo chamber. Especially since both Keim and Schefter have openly said their info is coming from outside the organization. 
 

I’m not engaging in wishful thinking—I’m still preparing for the pick to potentially be Daniels. I’m not in denial about the possibility, even likelihood. But in the end I just don’t believe the smoke means anything. None of them have a clue, regardless of what the rest of the NFL—most of whom don’t have incentive to dig as deep on these QB’s they don’t have a chance to draft—thinks. The only teams digging into these guys as deeply as Washington are the teams incentivized to lie their asses off.

Edited April 15 by Conn

[Ghost of]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

You know who looks great on that and whose deep adj comp pct is still pretty good? 

[SoCalSkins]

50 minutes ago, Conn said:

I’ve been watching more Daniels to talk myself into it if that’s the way we go. I prefer Maye, many of the people whose opinions I respect prefer Maye—but at the end of the day, it’s not gonna be healthy for me to have a negative reaction on draft night on what should be a celebratory weekend—new owner, new GM, new coaching staff, #2 pick in a great QB class being just the first of many premium draft picks…I need to get over myself, is my viewpoint.

 

 

If it’s Daniels draft night it’s going to take me a while to adjust to the idea. I have my 3rd/4th grade flag football practice that night and a big game Friday night so I will have a distraction. 
 

Btw, I think I’m the only Commanders team that has had sustained success at any age group! We were undefeated last season and 4-0 so far this year. When people around the park in south Orange County California hear Commanders they think football powerhouse! My QB is a dual threat baller. Should be ready for the 2035 draft.
 

[TurningTheCorner]

New to the forum thanks for having me!

 

I’ve been following this thread all off season and all I can say is I agree with the camp that feels fortunate that we are picking 2 this year with a chance at a very good prospect no matter what. 
 

I would be fine with Maye or Daniels. McCarthy would feel like a reach for me.

 

The crowd that feels like one is absolutely better than the other seems out of touch with reality in my honest opinion. They both do different things well. They both could be great. They both could bust. To read posts that one is absolutely a no brainer at 2 while the other would be “ok” at 3 but still not great is mind boggling to me. This is mostly in reference to taking Daniels at 2, but clearly there is a camp out there that really loves him as a prospect. Could they all be wrong? Absolutely, it’s definitely possible he flops and they are wrong and it would not be the first time they are. But there’s enough smoke out there that daniels is a legitimately good prospect worth taking at 2 that its hard for me to side with the group that thinks it’s an absolute malpractice to select him second over Maye.

 

I’d be happy with either and I love Maye and his potential. I love daniels too. I feel legitimately fortunate to have the choice between these two guys, they are way better prospects than Zach Wilson or Sam Darnold or Blake Bortles. Reading some of the takes in here feels a bit overkill when siding with one side over the other. 

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

This is super hard. Cause his supporting cast looks all time great. Nabers and Brian Thomas are so much better than the corners they went up against. Is that growth or just knowing they're going to win because they always win?

It’s a huge advantage for Daniels, and one of several reasons I lean towards Maye.  I do have a question though - those two were with him in 2022, so why do they become the rationale (or maybe primary driver) for his improvement in 2023?

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, TurningTheCorner said:

New to the forum thanks for having me!

 

I’ve been following this thread all off season and all I can say is I agree with the camp that feels fortunate that we are picking 2 this year with a chance at a very good prospect no matter what. 
 

I would be fine with Maye or Daniels. McCarthy would feel like a reach for me.

 

The crowd that feels like one is absolutely better than the other seems out of touch with reality in my honest opinion. They both do different things well. They both could be great. They both could bust. To read posts that one is absolutely a no brainer at 2 while the other would be “ok” at 3 but still not great is mind boggling to me. This is mostly in reference to taking Daniels at 2, but clearly there is a camp out there that really loves him as a prospect. Could they all be wrong? Absolutely, it’s definitely possible he flops and they are wrong and it would not be the first time they are. But there’s enough smoke out there that daniels is a legitimately good prospect worth taking at 2 that its hard for me to side with the group that thinks it’s an absolute malpractice to select him second over Maye.

 

I’d be happy with either and I love Maye and his potential. I love daniels too. I feel legitimately fortunate to have the choice between these two guys, they are way better prospects than Zach Wilson or Sam Darnold or Blake Bortles. Reading some of the takes in here feels a bit overkill when siding with one side over the other. 

 

 

First, welcome to crazyland! 🙂  Very happy to have another nutcase like the rest of us!  

 

You will find the term Extreme is very much earned here, hence the very strong opinions about which QB, especially when it comes to QBs! Long tradition of taking very strong polar opposite positions. 

 

I am more in your camp though. I like Maye more but it's not lights out difference. They both do things well and they both have struggles. I was surprised at how strong Daniels legs are compared to some of the other more slight QBs. And he does know how to get down. The issue will be, will he adjust to how fast the defense is to get down fast enough early on. I think that's the problem with rookie QBs who like to run some. They misjudge how fast these DLine and LBs and anyone else can close. Howell is a good example. I think he always thought he had more time than he did and got popped a lot. Too bad, I really liked him. 

 

But Daniels is not dumb. He has 5 yrs starting experience. And yes the last one was best, but you could see steady improvement, esepcially once he got to LSU. Was that just better players? Well if so, good news all the players in the NFL are better. Seriously, it's not like we have dregs and I expect them to add more weapons no matter which QB they take. 

 

I do not see JJ as an option unless they trade down. That could make things interesting. Pick up an additional RD 1 pick and take JJ. The chances of that happening are slim and none, and slim probably just walked out the door. And that's a good thing. I prefer we stay put. But stranger things have happened. Peters is not afraid to go out on a limb. Plus he already has better relationships with the rest of the league. Who knows what sourcery he might cook up... 🙂  

 

Again, I lean towards Maye but I am not losing my **** if they take Daniels. Have to trust the people in the room. Also, it's not like Adam Peters or any of those guys just dropped out of the sky and started looking at QBs. Several of them, especially Adam have likely been tracking these guys since middle school. 

 

 

Edited April 15 by goskins10

[CommanderInTheRye]

T minus 10 and counting…

 

 

The answer we seek will soon be upon us.

 

May our decision makers have wisdom and most of all good fortune in their choices…

 

 

 

 

 

1. No decision yet.

2. “There may be a leaning, there may even be a strong leaning.”

3. But they won’t make a final decision until they complete interviews with Daniels, Maye, and yes, McCarthy too.

 

 

.

Edited April 15 by CommanderInTheRye

[Chris 44]

9 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

If it’s Daniels draft night it’s going to take me a while to adjust to the idea. I have my 3rd/4th grade flag football practice that night and a big game Friday night so I will have a distraction. 
 

Btw, I think I’m the only Commanders team that has had sustained success at any age group! We were undefeated last season and 4-0 so far this year. When people around the park in south Orange County California hear Commanders they think football powerhouse! My QB is a dual threat baller. Should be ready for the 2035 draft.
 

If this were the Premier League about half of them would have been signed to "futures contracts" by now.

[GardenStateSkins]

I saw this article (Ideal Top Two Picks For Every Team) from Chad Reuter on NFL.com this morning and it literally made my eye twitch. 

 

Edited April 15 by GardenStateSkins

[MartinC]

11 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

If this were the Premier League about half of them would have been signed to "futures contracts" by now.

You mean Premier League as in real football (soccer)?