The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

Doesn't matter, if Mahomes or Allen were to get traded first thing they'd ask for is a new contract.  They all do.  So what if the Chiefs signed him until 2031, we aren't the Chiefs.  It's a new relationship and a new owner would have to show his love.  That's how much leverage QBs are getting.

 

Perhaps, depends on the situation. The point is that the whole "grab this guy on his rookie contract" thing would be more or less a moot point. Either you get him on the last year of his contract and don't really have time to build around him while on his rookie deal, or you have to extend him as soon as you trade for him, just like you're saying you'd have to do for Mahomes or Allen.

 

Both Mahomes and Allen are a fair bit more talented than Burrow and Herbert. So all things being equal, I'd take Mahomes or Allen. Yeah, Burrow and Herbert are a bit younger, but in an era where QBs are regularly playing into their late 30s that point doesn't have quite as much weight.

[dunfer]

figure it out. We'll get a van and go get him.

 

Mabye 4 vans and get all of them for a competition

[Conn]

5 hours ago, Dan T. said:

 

My sense is Josh Allen will give you more quality years at this point, by virtue of being younger and that his game is better suited to longevity.

Josh Allen is smart about it and huge, but he uses his legs like Cam (in addition to being a far superior passer of course). I think Mahomes easily beats him out in longevity. He can use his legs, but doesn’t need to at all.  No reason to think Allen’s game ages better at all imo. 

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, dunfer said:

figure it out. We'll get a van and go get him.

 

Mabye 4 vans and get all of them for a competition

 

 

I'd add my own van that I live in down by the river.

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

3 hours ago, dunfer said:

figure it out. We'll get a van and go get him.

 

Mabye 4 vans and get all of them for a competition

I don’t know the context of this post but I am all for it.

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, dunfer said:

figure it out. We'll get a van and go get him.

 

Mabye 4 vans and get all of them for a competition

 

[Chris 44]

6 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

I'd add my own van that I live in down by the river.

 

I remember a time when we would just send Redskins1. Times have changed!

[NewCliche21]

10 hours ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

I'd add my own van that I live in down by the river.

 

 

That's pretty motivational.

[The Consigliere]

19 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Tough to pick between Mahomes and Allen. Allen is a couple years younger and he's bigger, but Mahomes can pull out insane circus stuff that even Allen might not be able to do, so I'd probably go with Mahomes.

I go with Mahomes simply because Mahomes has an unblemished track record in terms of profile. There's literally nothing weird as a pro, he's just been great period, with ups and downs from good to HOF caliber (mostly the latter). Allen has a weird college profile that was so ugly I had no interest to begin with, and he's had uneven season to season production before beginning to break out really his second year. For me its easy, Mahomes, period. All Day everday, but I'd take either in a second and would trade half a decade of 1sts w/o a second thought for Mahomes and probably 4 for Allen. 

[DJHJR86]

23 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Guessing y'all didn't watch him singlehandedly rack up loses for the Eagles this year. He is terrible. He's mustached Heini and I'd rather have the Heini Holey one.

 

Well that's one reason why I like him.  He cost the Eagles games, according to you.  He's not terrible.  He's better than Heinicke and the stats bear it out.  

 

Minshew in 24 starts:

586/933 - 62.8% completion

6632 passing yards

46 total TDs

27 total turnovers

7.3 AY/A

93.1 passer rating

 

Heinicke in 24 starts:

482/753 - 64% completion

5278 passing yards

34 total TDs

28 total turnovers

6.6 AY/A

87.2 passer rating

 

Stats do not tell the whole story.  But Turner is gone.  We aren't looking for a franchise guy here.  We're looking for a backup.  Minshew's record as a starter sucks, but look at his per 17 game season average is over the last 3 seasons: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MinsGa00.htm#2020-2022-sum:passing 

 

I'd take 22 touchdowns to 8 interceptions over Brissett (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrisJa00.htm#2019-2022-sum:passing 11 touchdowns/5 interceptions),

 

and Mariota (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariMa01.htm#2019-2022-sum:passing 13 touchdowns/7 interceptions). 

 

And Mariota/Brissett only average 1 more rushing touchdown than Minshew.  The numbers above are factoring in the idea that they would have to come in at some point (because they are backups and averaged 10 starts per season).  I'm taking Minshew over those two every day of the week.  This idea that he's terrible is a terrible take.

Edited January 19, 2023 by DJHJR86

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll defer to @Koolblue13 who watched Minshew's games this season, I didn't, and I am not motivated enough to go back and watch them.

 

I'll say though superifically considering he played with a loaded roster.  Best O line in the league.  Good receivers, good running game and to be ranked so low (25 spots below Heinicke) with all of that working in his favor makes me pause.

 

But I am not really sweating who the backup is.  Everything being equal, I'd go Brissett, then Dalton or Mariota.  But I wouldn't run off a cliff if they signed Minshew or someone like Mike White or whomever.   My interest in Mariota is driven by his running as a passer "meh".

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I'd rather Sneakers be QB2 than Mustache. He was bad this year.

[FootballZombie]

I never thought much of Minshew in either of his destinations. Hard pass.

A lot of his games in Jax where he put up numbies were only a result of his team getting molly-wopped week in and week out, so they had to pass a metric ton.

 

He was never very good to me, even for a backup.

 

[skinsfan66]

19 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Well that's one reason why I like him.  He cost the Eagles games, according to you.  He's not terrible.  He's better than Heinicke and the stats bear it out.  

 

Minshew in 24 starts:

586/933 - 62.8% completion

6632 passing yards

46 total TDs

27 total turnovers

7.3 AY/A

93.1 passer rating

 

Heinicke in 24 starts:

482/753 - 64% completion

5278 passing yards

34 total TDs

28 total turnovers

6.6 AY/A

87.2 passer rating

 

Stats do not tell the whole story.  But Turner is gone.  We aren't looking for a franchise guy here.  We're looking for a backup.  Minshew's record as a starter sucks, but look at his per 17 game season average is over the last 3 seasons: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MinsGa00.htm#2020-2022-sum:passing 

 

I'd take 22 touchdowns to 8 interceptions over Brissett (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrisJa00.htm#2019-2022-sum:passing 11 touchdowns/5 interceptions),

 

and Mariota (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariMa01.htm#2019-2022-sum:passing 13 touchdowns/7 interceptions). 

 

And Mariota/Brissett only average 1 more rushing touchdown than Minshew.  The numbers above are factoring in the idea that they would have to come in at some point (because they are backups and averaged 10 starts per season).  I'm taking Minshew over those two every day of the week.  This idea that he's terrible is a terrible take.

Difference that has to be accounted for is, OL with Pro bowl Center, TE, put them on opposite teams.  Numbers never tell the whole story.  Taylor would be better in Philly is what common sense tells me.  Minshew will take his lickings here.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

JM: What are you looking to prove to NFL general managers, coaching staffs, and scouts in attendance in Mobile?

Jake Haener: I just want NFL decision-makers to evaluate my arm talent up close and personal. I want them to see what I can do in person. You don’t always get the most accurate depiction on tape. Watching a quarterback in person offers a different perspective altogether. 

I believe there will be a different appreciation for what I’m capable of doing. Evaluating how I go through my process live will be a big part of my overall evaluation. I’m excited for scouts to see me in person.

It’s an opportunity for me to play alongside some of the other top seniors in the country. I’m hoping to have an excellent week in Mobile.

 

JM: Quarterbacks always have a ton to gain at the Senior Bowl. You could seriously improve your draft stock with a strong performance. You sort of just touched on that. Does that alter your approach or mindset at all?

Jake Haener: Putting my best foot forward at the Senior Bowl is of the utmost importance. It’s going to be a big week between Jan. 29 and Feb. 4. It’ll be important to my overall evaluation.

It’s also important that I don’t try to do too much. You can get caught up in the moment of trying to overly impress somebody. I have to avoid that. I won’t allow myself to get outside of what I do best.

I have to go through my process without overthinking it. I won’t allow myself to get greedy. I’m just going to play the game like I know how. I think I’ll be more than fine.

 

JM: What a journey it’s been for you. From transferring from Washington to Fresno State and going through that adversity to beating David and Derek Carr’s passing records at Fresno State. How do you reflect on it all?

Jake Haener: I think Fresno State presented me with the perfect opportunity. They allowed me to get on the field at a place that has produced NFL-level quarterbacks. I don’t want to say year in and year out, but I think Fresno State has earned a reputation as a program that produces quality NFL quarterbacks.

I was lucky enough to have an opportunity to play at a really good program. We have an underdog mentality and their visions aligned with mine. Fresno State fits my persona.

Going through the process with COVID, having to sit out a season, I was faced with multiple challenges. At the end of the day, I ended up starting at Fresno State for three seasons. I’m very thankful. I produced at a high level throughout those three years. I’m blessed and very thankful.

I wouldn’t change a single thing. That process made me a better quarterback and person at the end of the day. I can be proud of how the back half of my college career ended.

 

JM: You’ve been a natural in coach Jeff Tedford’s system. Tell me about the chemistry you managed to capture with coach Tedford and his scheme.

Jake Haener: I believe he introduced that scheme around 2019. I immediately felt like I could produce in that system. Ultimately, as I progressed through the system and gained a better grasp on it, I matured as a player and felt like the staff began affording me more freedom within the system. 

They trusted that I understood how to manipulate coverages. I was able to get us out of bad plays and into good ones. I wanted to give my team the best chance to win on Saturdays. I took a lot of pride in that. I feel like it prepared me for the next level. 

We all know the NFL comes with a learning curve. I believe my experiences at Fresno State prepared me for what’s to come.

 

JM: I want to expand on that a little. What sort of responsibilities did you have at the line of scrimmage?

Jake Haener: I controlled a lot of things, in all honesty. I got us in and out of protections. I was able to change certain protections. I got us in and out of concepts against different coverages. We did a lot of things at the line scrimmage. We checked the box count and got in and out of different run plays. 

When the numbers didn’t look great, we checked to other concepts in the run game. I had a lot of freedom to check plays, concepts, and protections. I had the offense at my disposal.

Picking the right times was crucial. It wasn’t an ‘all the time’ thing. It was at the right time. We changed things when they needed to get changed. I always tried to put my team in the best position to be successful.

 

JM: As a quarterback that had a ton of freedom within the offense, how do you balance being aggressive with taking what the defense gives you?

Jake Haener: We have things we try to accomplish when opportunities for big plays present themselves. We talk about those things in meetings throughout the week. When teams give us certain looks we talked about on film, I have the freedom to get to my quick game and option routes.

We had opportunities to isolate our best playmakers in advantageous positions. We wanted to get our best players in space in favorable coverage situations. We look for those matchups. I thought we did a good job with that on a weekly basis.

I had to establish those boundaries. I wanted to attack defenses when we got those opportunities on Saturdays.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Captain James]

22 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

That's pretty motivational.

Bill Shakespeare over here...

[method man]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

JM: What are you looking to prove to NFL general managers, coaching staffs, and scouts in attendance in Mobile?

Jake Haener: I just want NFL decision-makers to evaluate my arm talent up close and personal. I want them to see what I can do in person. You don’t always get the most accurate depiction on tape. Watching a quarterback in person offers a different perspective altogether. 

I believe there will be a different appreciation for what I’m capable of doing. Evaluating how I go through my process live will be a big part of my overall evaluation. I’m excited for scouts to see me in person.

It’s an opportunity for me to play alongside some of the other top seniors in the country. I’m hoping to have an excellent week in Mobile.

 

JM: Quarterbacks always have a ton to gain at the Senior Bowl. You could seriously improve your draft stock with a strong performance. You sort of just touched on that. Does that alter your approach or mindset at all?

Jake Haener: Putting my best foot forward at the Senior Bowl is of the utmost importance. It’s going to be a big week between Jan. 29 and Feb. 4. It’ll be important to my overall evaluation.

It’s also important that I don’t try to do too much. You can get caught up in the moment of trying to overly impress somebody. I have to avoid that. I won’t allow myself to get outside of what I do best.

I have to go through my process without overthinking it. I won’t allow myself to get greedy. I’m just going to play the game like I know how. I think I’ll be more than fine.

 

JM: What a journey it’s been for you. From transferring from Washington to Fresno State and going through that adversity to beating David and Derek Carr’s passing records at Fresno State. How do you reflect on it all?

Jake Haener: I think Fresno State presented me with the perfect opportunity. They allowed me to get on the field at a place that has produced NFL-level quarterbacks. I don’t want to say year in and year out, but I think Fresno State has earned a reputation as a program that produces quality NFL quarterbacks.

I was lucky enough to have an opportunity to play at a really good program. We have an underdog mentality and their visions aligned with mine. Fresno State fits my persona.

Going through the process with COVID, having to sit out a season, I was faced with multiple challenges. At the end of the day, I ended up starting at Fresno State for three seasons. I’m very thankful. I produced at a high level throughout those three years. I’m blessed and very thankful.

I wouldn’t change a single thing. That process made me a better quarterback and person at the end of the day. I can be proud of how the back half of my college career ended.

 

JM: You’ve been a natural in coach Jeff Tedford’s system. Tell me about the chemistry you managed to capture with coach Tedford and his scheme.

Jake Haener: I believe he introduced that scheme around 2019. I immediately felt like I could produce in that system. Ultimately, as I progressed through the system and gained a better grasp on it, I matured as a player and felt like the staff began affording me more freedom within the system. 

They trusted that I understood how to manipulate coverages. I was able to get us out of bad plays and into good ones. I wanted to give my team the best chance to win on Saturdays. I took a lot of pride in that. I feel like it prepared me for the next level. 

We all know the NFL comes with a learning curve. I believe my experiences at Fresno State prepared me for what’s to come.

 

JM: I want to expand on that a little. What sort of responsibilities did you have at the line of scrimmage?

Jake Haener: I controlled a lot of things, in all honesty. I got us in and out of protections. I was able to change certain protections. I got us in and out of concepts against different coverages. We did a lot of things at the line scrimmage. We checked the box count and got in and out of different run plays. 

When the numbers didn’t look great, we checked to other concepts in the run game. I had a lot of freedom to check plays, concepts, and protections. I had the offense at my disposal.

Picking the right times was crucial. It wasn’t an ‘all the time’ thing. It was at the right time. We changed things when they needed to get changed. I always tried to put my team in the best position to be successful.

 

JM: As a quarterback that had a ton of freedom within the offense, how do you balance being aggressive with taking what the defense gives you?

Jake Haener: We have things we try to accomplish when opportunities for big plays present themselves. We talk about those things in meetings throughout the week. When teams give us certain looks we talked about on film, I have the freedom to get to my quick game and option routes.

We had opportunities to isolate our best playmakers in advantageous positions. We wanted to get our best players in space in favorable coverage situations. We look for those matchups. I thought we did a good job with that on a weekly basis.

I had to establish those boundaries. I wanted to attack defenses when we got those opportunities on Saturdays.

Didn’t realize Haener was a Jeff Tedford QB. Does he have the ****ed up mechanics that Rodgers and Joey Harrington, among others, came out with?

[Wyvern]

I know it's the off-season for Washington, and I've noted how ES'er posting can get really "speculative" even to the point of blue-sky ideas being tossed around.

 

Sorry, IMHO, The bigger issues to focus on first, is how things get resolved regarding the turmoil around the:

• ownership of the franchise, and when a transfer might occur
• long-term status and structure of the current FO, 
• possible limits on 2023 FO spending/guaranteed money/cap-management, mindful of impending change in ownership
• Status of the current HC (and his coaching staff) in 2023 and beyond
• Identity of new OC as well as whether the 'new' OC changes what should be the team's offensive identity in 2023

The discussions around which FA QB Washington brings in, is really far downstream of these issues.  Come to think of it, even the commitment to Howell as 2023 QB-1 needs to be taken with a graIn of salt.  Maybe with an improved O-line, the team's identity doesn't have to be a 'ground-&-pound' type of offense -- after all, the Washington WR corps is probably as good, or deeper than the current RB corps. 

 

With a decent O-line, and a QB with an NFL arm, and a credible running attack,  Washington could easily become an explosive passing team. And maybe the next OC tries to go that way, especially as high-scoring teams are very "marketable" -- at least for putting fans in the seats, and free extra items on pizzas.  The point I make, is simply to take Rivera/Mayhew's comments about a 2023 running team identity with many grains of salt.  

 

I think the selection of an OC might m-i-g-h-t give us a hint about the team's 2023 offensive identity, but it too might be overtaken by the other more dominant factors I've listed. 

 

 But, if pressed, I predict it'll be Shurmer, Keenum, with some  major O-line upgrading in the draft (with maybe a more durable TE too) ...at least to balance the offense and tilt it more towards leveraging all the talent at WR.  I just think the Heinicke-driven, ground-&-pound offense of the last half of 2022, was a desperation measure because the ravaged O-line could not support a reliable passing game.  The 2023 Washington offense can be better than that, regardless of the OC.

[88Comrade2000]

Until we know the team is sold, we can’t speculate when they get approved.  My guess BOA is now trying to get the initial group of bidders that remain to increase their bid and If Bezos is bidding, to top them. Can this be in 3 weeks from Sunday when the SuperBowl is?

 

I think Jason Wright is gone and the owner installs his president immediately. He will probably have a Gm type person assist with the draft but I think the permanent Gm doesn’t get hired until summer, after the draft.

 

Dan isn’t going to spend a dime; so the team spending will be on a strict budget. Once the new owner takes over, spending will be resumed. How far into free agency remains to be seen, but likely are sitting out early free agency. We may not be able to franchise Payne. Have to wait and see.

 

I think lame duck Ron won’t get an oc of any note. They May interview the but highly doubtful they take it, if offered.

 

Ron will be on a prove it year. A playoff win at minimum, is what he needs to do.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I think Jason Wright is gone

I really hope so. The guy stinks of incompetence in my opinion.

[Jumbo]

I'm noticing a serious uptick in the level of intelligent discussion in this thread and a serious decline in the absurdity and silliness of certain...related subjects (cough) being a perpetual feature of many a page.

 

This type of change can be unsettling and even unfamiliar for some of us. I ask those of you who find this to be so to not be frightened. 

 

For today we accept this change and we boldly go forward to fight for our right to be smart! We fight for our right to be reasonable! We fight for our precious freedom to not be igwads about the qb position! 

 

Today we fight for all those who post on ES and are willing to sacrifice everything to spend valuable time here doing what matters more than anything!

 

Today we fight for all that is most important to our lives! Today we fight for our right to make sense and make valid arguments!

 

We did not go quietly into the night! We did not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! 

 

[NickyJ]

I think Taylor Heinicke has a stronger arm than Josh Allen and that Ron Rivera coached him to not use it because he wanted to keep Taylor on a cheaper contract when he looks bad.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

We fight for our precious freedom to not be igwads about the qb position! 

 

As unbelievably clever of an idiom that is, I'm gonna need you to calm down w/ that Thesaurus.

 

This one does deserve aplomb tho.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by FootballZombie

[dunfer]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

I think Taylor Heinicke has a stronger arm than Josh Allen and that Ron Rivera coached him to not use it because he wanted to keep Taylor on a cheaper contract when he looks bad.

I watched some guys youtube video yesterday that claimed Sam had the longest toss in the air that weve had in the last 16 years (or something like that). The bomb to Terry that he couldnt haul in

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by dunfer

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, dunfer said:

I watched some guys youtube video yesterday that claimed Sam had the longest toss in the air that weve had in the last 16 years (or something like that). The bomb to Terry that he couldnt haul in

 

 

 

I think I saw the same video. IIRC he said it was the longest air yards since they started keeping track around 2006. I'm a little skeptical because I know we had some big bombs from RG3 and Kirk as well. Either way, it's nice to have a guy who can sling it like that. Howell also didn't need to wind up or anything.