The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[goskins10]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

None of the above thank you. Just not interested in any one of them either due to quality of play, cost to get them, or both. Just tired ofthe retread carosel. I still like Ron R and like most of what he is doing. But he needs to get the QB position right. 

[HigSkin]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

None of the above thank you. Just not interested in any one of them either due to quality of play, cost to get them, or both. Just tired ofthe retread carosel. I still like Ron R and like most of what he is doing. But he needs to get the QB position right. 

 

He certainly seems to have a pulse on the team and it's temperament, i.e. TH.  I think if you look around the league about 3/4 of the teams are in the same boat as we are.  I'm hoping he solves the QB position next year also whether it's in house (Howell) or whoever.    

 

October article but....

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2022/10/17/23408508/commanders-qb-discussion-pros-and-cons-for-the-two-healthy-players-on-the-roster

 

Sam Howell

Pros:

1.) Sam has a legit NFL arm. It’s not quite up there with Allen and Mahomes, but it’s not too far off. His deep ball tends to be much flatter that the high-arching deep ball we see from Wentz, but he can get it there with ease. His most impressive arm trait is the intermediate passes. They have a lot of zip and get to his receivers in a hurry and on a line.

 

2.) Howell is a sneaky-good runner who is tough as nails. Last year at North Carolina, his line was a sieve and he lacked playmakers on the outside (so he should fit in well with Washington). No problem...Sam just took it upon himself, rushing for 828 yards and 11 touchdowns.

 

3.) Sam was one of the top-rated high school quarterbacks in the country and a consensus 5-star recruit. He started as a true freshman for Mac Brown, and never relinquished the role. That year, he completed 61 percent of his passes for 3641 yards and 38 touchdowns versus just seven interceptions.

 

4.) Howell has an incredibly quick, compact release and can change arm angles to make all the required throws.

 

5.) His mechanics are VERY good. You’ll see some “draft guys” try and refute this last year because of the intense pressure he was under, but true evaluators will look at his first two years at UNC to see the true Sam Howell - a guy with a sturdy base, the ability to transfer weight easily, a quick, compact release and great arm-slot.

 

Cons:

1.) Although thickly built at 220 pounds, Howell is just under 6’1”. The lack of prototypical height could affect him in a collapsing pocket (which is sure to happen).

 

2.) Scott Turner’s offense is not the easiest to learn. If Sam is given the opportunity to run it as a rookie, I’d expect a lot of growing pains as he learns to go through advanced progressions and high-low reads.

 

3.) Like any rookie, Howell will need time adjusting to the speed of the game. I REALLY worry about him having to process quickly behind this BAD offensive line. I keep going back to the days of Joey Harrington when he was drafted by the Lions, and how that pass rush that he had to face ruined the Oregon star. I’d hate to see the same happen here.

 

 

[-9-]

11 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Sam Howell

 

Pros:

 

6.)  Age.  Howell just turned 22 in September.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

None of the above thank you. Just not interested in any one of them either due to quality of play, cost to get them, or both. Just tired ofthe retread carosel. I still like Ron R and like most of what he is doing. But he needs to get the QB position right. 

 

I am open minded on the Qb spot.  FA, trade, draft.  I am in the it depends mode on the spot.  But I get your sentiment.

 

As for Ron figuring out the QB spot, if he does he will be the first to puzzle this in the last 30 years or so here.  I got my fingers crossed.  I don't know if he breaks that elusive code that escaped all our previous coach since Gibbs 1 -- including Gibbs 2 -- but judging by his rhetoric and actions he's certainily aware of the issue.  I can't recall a coach we've had who talks and talks and talks about the need for a QB.   

Edited December 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

From the article above, I don’t know where The Athletic is getting a $40M cap hit fir Rodgers next season if they trade or release him.

 

Spotrac and OTC  has a $99M dead cap number.  
 

With the fully guaranteed money at signing, and the contract breakout, that seems more correct than the $40M number in the article.

 

I don’t think the Packers can trade or release Rodgers next year even if they wanted to.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

From the article above, I don’t know where The Athletic is getting a $40M cap hit fir Rodgers next season if they trade or release him.

 

Spotrac and OTC  has a $99M dead cap number.  
 

With the fully guaranteed money at signing, and the contract breakout, that seems more correct than the $40M number in the article.

 

I don’t think the Packers can trade or release Rodgers next year even if they wanted to.

https://overthecap.com/looking-ahead-to-the-packers-options-with-aaron-rodgers/amp
 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim on Sheehan today, he asked Keim what he's hearing.  Points:

 

A.  they know Heinicke is limited but don't want to disrupt things on a winning streak

 

B.  A big thing is Wentz feels like a wildcard, they don't know what they are going to get, not sure if they want to risk that during this push

 

C.  Suggested both Heinicke and Wentz are wild rides in games

 

D.  Howell isn't on the table to play.  Wentz might be but he believes it would have to be two bad games in a row from Heinicke -- implying in a loss

 

E.  They lamented about how this is a good roster sans pass protection and QB and imagine if they had better at that spot.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

All of what Keim said is logical and in-line with what I’ve been thinking.  There is a small chance TH was on the outside looking in prior to that 4th down throw.  But all along, I’ve suspected it will likely require 2 stinker losses to move on.

Going to Carson was a risk to begin with, now with the loss of Larsen and Cosmi - it’s an even bigger risk.  A risk not worth taking if I’m Ron.  At this point, you just have to grin and bear with Heinicke and cross your fingers.

[DJHJR86]

22 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Going to Carson was a risk to begin with, now with the loss of Larsen and Cosmi - it’s an even bigger risk.  A risk not worth taking if I’m Ron.  At this point, you just have to grin and bear with Heinicke and cross your fingers.

 

You left off to prepare your liver for copious amounts of alcohol.  

[Wyvern]

Question:  Since Washington tied this last game, does that mean Heinicke is only going to award his teammates with just single shoes of Air Jordans in the Giants colors?

[FLSkinz83]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

E.  They lamented about how this is a good roster sans pass protection and QB and imagine if they had better at that spot.

 

Imagine having an extra 28 mil in cap space plus a 3rd round pick last off-season.    Could have solidified the O-Line, added CB and LB depth.

 

They could go to the Superbowl with that team.

[Warhead36]

24 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Imagine having an extra 28 mil in cap space plus a 3rd round pick last off-season.    Could have solidified the O-Line, added CB and LB depth.

 

They could go to the Superbowl with that team.

Not without a QB.

[LD0506]

36 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Imagine having an extra 28 mil in cap space plus a 3rd round pick last off-season.    Could have solidified the O-Line, added CB and LB depth.

 

They could go to the Superbowl with that team.

 

Child please!

If Ron had gone into this season declaring that TH was the starter the fans would have rioted

[mistertim]

49 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Imagine having an extra 28 mil in cap space plus a 3rd round pick last off-season.    Could have solidified the O-Line, added CB and LB depth.

 

They could go to the Superbowl with that team.

 

Um, and who exactly would be playing QB for this mythical SB contender?

[SkinsFTW]

16 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Child please!

If Ron had gone into this season declaring that TH was the starter the fans would have rioted

 

Instead, Dan Rioted, hence Wince. 

 

Fittingly, he began by demanding Jeff George and goes down with Wince.

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Um, and who exactly would be playing QB for this mythical SB contender?

 

The smart team with 3 firsts already on the DL 10 out of 10 times goes with Tua or Herbert.

Edited December 6, 2022 by SkinsFTW

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

The smart team with 3 firsts already on the DL 10 out of 10 times goes with Tua or Herbert.

 

Given this post, your signature is quite ironic. 

[skinny21]

9 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Child please!

If Ron had gone into this season declaring that TH was the starter the fans would have rioted

Yeah, it really wasn’t an option for him.  With that said, the fanbase has been in the toilet anyway - if I were Ron, I’d be focused on doing what I thought was right, vs what might be popular.  Just to be clear, I’m not saying rolling with TH was the “right” way to go, even if we could certainly make the argument with hindsight.

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing Wentz get a chance, but not if our pass pro is anything like it was Sunday.  I have pretty serious reservations that he can play in this offensive style (mentally).  If he can though, and if we can protect him (major ifs obviously), I’d like our chances vs most teams.  

 

Of course I’m also not quite as down on Heinicke as most people.  

 

Looking towards the future, I don’t know what the heck we do at qb.  The idea of trading for a vet - giving up draft and cap - scares me a bit;  can we still re-sign Payne and beef up our oline?  Utilizing FA, at least we keep our picks, but what does it do to our cap situation?  Part of me thinks a 1st round qb - if we can land a guy the staff likes - to compete with Howell might be the way to go (maybe re-signing TH just in case?).  I don’t know.

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

Oh, I wanted a QB in the off-season as well.    The point I'm making is knowing what we know, We would absolutely be a SB contender if that 28 million was used elsewhere.

 

With TH at QB.   

[mistertim]

Just now, FLSkinz83 said:

Oh, I wanted a QB in the off-season as well.    The point I'm making is knowing what we know, We would absolutely be a SB contender if that 28 million was used elsewhere.

 

With TH at QB.   

 

TH is never taking any team to a SB. Maybe the 2000 Ravens. Maybe.

[DJD2]

1 hour ago, Wyvern said:

Question:  Since Washington tied this last game, does that mean Heinicke is only going to award his teammates with just single shoes of Air Jordans in the Giants colors?

 

I think I heard they were just getting shoe strings, so they could TIE their shoes.

[Warhead36]

We weren't going to go into this season with Heinicke as the starter again so arguing anything that results in that is a moot point.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Going into the season with TH as starter is malpractice.  
 

We’ve won some razor thin, low scoring games, to give us some meaningful football in December.  But let’s not get carried away here.

 

The real move, as much as it pains me to say it, would have been acquiring Mariota on the low in the offseason and letting him battle it out in camp with Heinicke.  Mariota is like Heinicke+.  He’s not going to torch you through the air, but with this running game - the added RPO with MM would be ideal.

 

I still think we’d be in the same place though come the end of the season, wondering what we are going to do at QB for 2023 and beyond.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Going into the season with TH as starter is malpractice.  
 

We’ve won some razor thin, low scoring games, to give us some meaningful football in December.  But let’s not get carried away here.

 

The real move, as much as it pains me to say it, would have been acquiring Mariota on the low in the offseason and letting him battle it out in camp with Heinicke.  Mariota is like Heinicke+.  He’s not going to torch you through the air, but with this running game - the added RPO with MM would be ideal.

 

I still think we’d be in the same place though come the end of the season, wondering what we are going to do at QB for 2023 and beyond.

 

 

 

With this running game and defense, having a QB who can do RO or RPO and who is willing to actually keep the ball I think would be really interersting.

 

As Keim among others have discuss this team on occasion runs RO, but Heinicke doesn't keep the ball so defenses don't bite on it.  Having a QB with even a little running ability with this run game would be interesting IMO.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

So how do we fix it moving forward with something other than ANOTHER season with a stop gap? Its been going on since Kirk left. I dont consider Dwayne a real swing due to Dan and last season of Jay. That was doomed from the start. 

 

Enough with the terrible options we have. What are realistic steps that can be taken to actually get at minimum a good option that doesnt cost what the great options cost (so taking out of the equation of Carr at 40+ a year)?