The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Fair enough, it was a short list in that category though.

 

Wentz wasn’t without fault in his own right, but generally speaking yeah - he was under siege and his inexperience in the offense didn’t help him.

 

Wentz for his faults had three games where he passed 300 yards or more and threw more TDs than Heinicke in one less game.   His worst game was the Eagles game and one with the broken finger. 

 

My issue with him is his pocket presence and mobility seemed limited and i am not sure I trust him in big games considering his history.   But they couid move the ball with him in some games fairly well but it was very up and down. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's not like Heinicke has been slowly improving. He's falling off the ledge just like he did last year, because his arm gets gassed or he loses focus or something. Either way, he's played terrible two weeks in a row and although I'm grateful for what he has done, it's time for a change.

 

What exactly did you see yesterday that makes you want to vehemently defend him? I just don't see it.

I disagree. I think he's making decisions better and the offense better. Somebody made a comment on twitter saying that Heinicke 1st/4th quarter vs Heinicke 2nd/3rd are totally different. In one he's trying to establish a lead or comeback and the others he's trying to improve his game. 

 

I don't vehemently defend him. I'm a defender of our starting QB in most cases and don't see the point of "change for the sake of change". He brought us back yesterday with 3 pretty passes including one on 4th down. If we were to go to Howell, I'd feel fine. In fact I thought we might yesterday with some of the shots Heinicke was taking. But I don't see the calls for Wentz because he couldn't make some of these plays, he has no mobility and would be a sitting duck behind this line. 

 

But I get frustrated when these lower round QBs have to do so much more to remain starters because like people say about Heinicke, they have such a low ceiling. Meanwhile all the first round busts get chance after chance because of some arm strength or height thing that doesn't mean anything when they are just getting sacked, or have bad accuracy, or bad sportsmanship or are bad teammates. 

[Long n Left]

This thread:

[FLSkinz83]

We had two long 2nd half drives that resulted in zero points.   Like I said earlier, bad blocking, bad penalties, bogus penalties and non penalty calls is what doomed us.  

 

Throw in special teams and 1st half defense.   

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Jones is not great, but I'd consider him next year.

 

He's not high on my list but if its him versus Taylor, I'd take Jones.  

 

Looks like the Raiders emergence in recent games likely puts Carr off the table.  Jimmy G's injury, considering his history of injuries, probably puts him on the market.   Be interesting to see who else?

 

I don't love this draft as far as QBs tied to where they are picking.  I don't mind adding another throw the dice QB in the 4th-5th round, my guy would probably be Haener and have him compete with Howell.

 

I am higher on Howell than most (you and @KDawg) are even higher on him.  I think he has a shot but i'd want to see something to roll the dice.   In normal typically Washington circumstances, I don't mind riding with a total wildcard at QB but I do think this is a really good team if upgrading at QB and O line.  I don't think people like Cooley are wildly off that they can threaten a SB if they juice up the O line and QB position which he feels is doable.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Long n Left said:

This thread:

Then stop clicking on it? 

 

Bfore we had this thread, the QB talk dominated every single thread, so this is a total improvement. 

[DJHJR86]

 

 

Whenever he drops back to pass anything over 10 yards I always hold my breath anticipating a sailed throw or an interception.  I still can't believe he got this off and it was completed.  Cooley had the perfect golf analogy for him.  He will bogey on the first 17, but if he needs to par to win it on the 18th, he will.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wentz for his faults had three games where he passed 300 yards or more and threw more TDs than Heinicke in one less game.   His worst game was the Eagles game and one with the broken finger. 

 

My issue with him is his pocket presence and mobility seemed limited.   But they couid move the ball with him in some games fairly well but it was very up and down. 

All that is fair.

 

I think it’s clear that Heinicke is better at maneuvering in the pocket, but mobility wise - he might as well be Wentz because he generally refuses to run.

 

My point is primarily that Wentz took the brunt of the blame for the pressure and sacks and now that Heinicke is taking them, it’s all about the OL and the penalties…the exact same stuff that plagued Wentz. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's not high on my list but if its him versus Taylor, I'd take Jones.  

 

Looks like the Raiders emergence in recent games likely puts Carr off the table.  Jimmy G's injury, considering his history of injuries, probably puts him on the market.   Be interesting to see who else?

 

I don't love this draft as far as QBs tied to where they are picking.  I don't mind adding another throw the dice QB in the 4th-5th round, my guy would probably be Haener and have him compete with Howell.

 

I am higher on Howell than most (you and @KDawg) are evn higher on him.  I think he has a shot but i'd want to see something to roll the dice.   In normal typically Washington circumstances, I don't mind riding with a total wildcard at QB but I do think this is a really good team if upgrading at QB and O line.  I don't think people like Cooley are wildly off that they can threaten a QB if they juice up the O line and QB position which he feels is doable.

I am high on Howell, but his career will probably look more like Heinicke than anything else. I'd be happy with Haener in this draft. We have to draft another QB.

[Long n Left]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Then stop clicking on it? 

 

Bfore we had this thread, the QB talk dominated every single thread, so this is a total improvement. 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Long n Left said:

No, I get it. Other people have been whining about it lately too.

[method man]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  I was probably the lead Daniel Jones hater in the draft thread.  And i only warmed up to him a little since he's been in the pros but not much.  But yeah imagine this run game if we had someone like Jones who can run himself and force defenses to keep guessing?

 

The Giants passing weapons are beyond awful.  It's really Jones and Barkley and that's it.  Their O line is better than years past  but they've been banged up for a chunk of this season.  

The G-Men are in a tough spot. Their pick is going to be mid teens at best. I think they ultimately draft a receiver and run it back with Jones on the franchise tag, which will really eat into their cap

[bearrock]

25 minutes ago, method man said:

The G-Men are in a tough spot. Their pick is going to be mid teens at best. I think they ultimately draft a receiver and run it back with Jones on the franchise tag, which will really eat into their cap

 

I think you have a very high chance of being right, but man it will be so hilarious to see Daniel Jones play on a QB franchise tag

[Warhead36]

Can we please stop with the notion that we need to run more RPO with Heinicke? Lets dismiss that right now. Heinicke is not fast. He's got maybe slightly above average speed at best. He's got some quickness and elusiveness and he's nimble in the pocket because he can use his small frame to wiggle out of pressure, but he doesn't have explosive acceleration. He isn't going to beat defenders to the edge. Yeah he might get the occasional like 5 yard run on an RPO but he's also likely to get blasted more often than not. And that isn't even factoring in that we don't know if he's got the ball handle skills and that he's NEVER been in an RPO offense in his life(unless maybe High School). 

 

It is not a viable option except maybe like once a game to try to catch them completely off guard. Lamenting on it like it's going to be the knew juice of our offense 2012 RG3 style is silly.

[ClaytoAli]

53 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

Whenever he drops back to pass anything over 10 yards I always hold my breath anticipating a sailed throw or an interception.  I still can't believe he got this off and it was completed.  Cooley had the perfect golf analogy for him.  He will bogey on the first 17, but if he needs to par to win it on the 18th, he will.  

This is exactly what I was talking about @KDawg and @Warhead36.

Edited December 5, 2022 by ClaytoAli

[Ball Security]

51 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

Whenever he drops back to pass anything over 10 yards I always hold my breath anticipating a sailed throw or an interception.  I still can't believe he got this off and it was completed.  Cooley had the perfect golf analogy for him.  He will bogey on the first 17, but if he needs to par to win it on the 18th, he will.  

Look at that defensive alignment at 20 seconds.  Whoa.

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, method man said:

The G-Men are in a tough spot. Their pick is going to be mid teens at best. I think they ultimately draft a receiver and run it back with Jones on the franchise tag, which will really eat into their cap

 

I think you are right

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

No idea how he rolls left and makes that miracle throw to Samuel, yet is wildly off on so many others.  Dude really does have the juice or a rabbits foot in these situations.  That’s an elite throw.

[ClaytoAli]

It’s like this TH needs to live in hurry up pants on fire schemes to ball out.

[wit33]

55 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

Whenever he drops back to pass anything over 10 yards I always hold my breath anticipating a sailed throw or an interception.  I still can't believe he got this off and it was completed.  Cooley had the perfect golf analogy for him.  He will bogey on the first 17, but if he needs to par to win it on the 18th, he will.  

The Cooley analogy still applies but this play was a borderline Eagle shot from the bunker lol 

1 minute ago, ClaytoAli said:

It’s like this TH needs to live in hurry up pants on fire schemes to ball out.

I believe there is a unique level of calm he has within in these situations. He seemed to play this way his whole life, so probably a great deal of reps in these situations. It’s wild, I’m most confident in these situations with him lol It’s not to say he might not throw a pick, but I have confidence he will pull off the low percentage football outcome at times.
 

I’m sure the 90 yard TD drive down 7 was a 10-20% likely outcome. Don’t apply math to the dude lol

[mistertim]

I'm still stumped as to where Heinicke is hiding all of the horseshoes, rabbits feet, four-leaf clovers and lucky pennies that he clearly has on him at all times.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — Over the past seven weeks, the Washington Commanders have established a clear identity and a reliable formula to give themselves a chance to win every game. But Coach Ron Rivera has said he wants the team to “evolve.” He wants it to ascend from competitive to contender, to win games by more than just a score and separate from the NFL’s muddy middle class.

 

 

But is quarterback Taylor Heinicke capable of helping his team evolve?

Heinicke has done immeasurable good for the Commanders. His magic is a primary reason the team, 2-4 when he took over, is now 7-5-1 with a shot at the postseason. But after another inconsistent performance Sunday in a 20-20 tie against the New York Giants, it’s difficult to imagine the subpar passing game will take a significant step forward under Heinicke. It’s possible Rivera will spend the bye week considering whether Heinicke is the right quarterback to unlock the next level of the offense (and the team).

 

“Who he is — that gave us a chance,” Rivera said of Heinicke’s play Sunday, though he could’ve been describing the season. “[But] again, if we can eliminate some of the missed things, I think he could’ve made a few more plays for us.”

During this stretch, the passing game has capped the potential of the run-heavy, high-floor offense. The struggles haven’t solely been on Heinicke — pass blocking is not the line’s strength — but he’s been unable to consistently threaten defenses as a thrower. The limitations of his arm strength have shown in several ways, particularly in the red zone and downfield, and his accuracy has been scattershot. Since Heinicke became the starter, 17 percent of his throws have been off-target, according to TruMedia, which is the third-highest rate in the NFL.

 

Perhaps the clearest example of offensive coordinator Scott Turner’s hesitance to lean on the passing game came Sunday. Late in the fourth quarter, Heinicke pulled off another heroic drive, but in overtime, he missed a protection call and was sacked, nearly for a game-losing safety. Two plays later, Washington faced an obvious passing situation — third and 10 at its own 10 — and Turner took the ball out of Heinicke’s hands, calling a run up the middle and effectively playing for the tie.

 

“We didn’t want to do anything crazy,” Rivera said.

Going into the bye, does the coach feel as if his team is missing anything offensively?

“What we’re going to do during the bye week is evaluate that,” Rivera said.

It seems unlikely Turner can help Heinicke any more as a passer. Turner already uses gadgetry, such as motion and play action, at some of the league’s highest rates, and he’s developed a diverse run game capable of success despite defenses keying on it. Heinicke is throwing off-target passes more often this year than he did last year — he sailed several passes Sunday because of a mechanical issue, Rivera said — and Turner can’t help Heinicke on throws without gadgetry.

 

This year, Heinicke’s true dropback stats are among the lowest in the league — 34-of-57 (59.6 percent) for 438 yards, three touchdowns and two interceptions, according to Sports Info Solutions — and are similar to his career rates.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

It’s like this TH needs to live in hurry up pants on fire schemes to ball out.

This is true, but it’s a big gamble.  Because his hair was still on fire afterwards and was lucky to not get picked multiple times.

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm still stumped as to where Heinicke is hiding all of the horseshoes, rabbits feet, four-leaf clovers and lucky pennies that he clearly has on him at all times.

I imagine he’d tell you he’s been hearing this his whole football life lol 

[Llevron]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No idea how he rolls left and makes that miracle throw to Samuel, yet is wildly off on so many others.  Dude really does have the juice or a rabbits foot in these situations.  That’s an elite throw.

 

Right. Its almost inconceivable when you watch the entire game. And then he makes it look this easy. Its kinda annoying lol