The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

Is Mac Jones really worse than Heinicke? I haven't watched any Pats games but I know Rivera was high on him coming out of the draft and would've selected him had he lasted to our pick.

Matt Patricia is worse than Turner. It’s not particularly close. So yes, based on the way he’s played. But their OC situation is… not good.

[mh86]

Just now, 86 Snyder said:

That depends entirely on what route they go.  If it’s an early draft pick or say Garoppolo, you won’t hear a peep from me.  Taylor should have his ass glued to the bench.

 

If it’s a guy like Brissett then yeah, you gotta consider TH if they are losing.  
 

There’s like maybe 10 QBs in the league who can get to a super bowl and there’s young guys who you have to give a chance to become that.  If next years solution doesn’t check either of those boxes, then you’re already living in the discard pile and there’s simply no reason for loyalty to anyone in the discard pile based on anything other than results. 

I wasn’t directing at you specifically. Just in general. Our fan base has been so starving for a QB that we become overly fascinated with backups for years. If we grabbed a rookie people would be lining up en masse with pitchforks to call for their benching after a few bad games. This thread would be back to arguing for another thousand pages 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I have thought about this. IMO it really comes down to how he looks in practice and meetings, which we don't have visibility into.

 

But at the very least, a heavy running game would ease the burden on him.

 

Isn't the media at practices? You can look through their eyes instead. 

 

But we still need him to throw. That might still be an issue though. Also he has to throw the shorter balls with a touch or else the droppies will come back too. 

[86 Snyder]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Some other real bad QBs this year: Mac Jones. Jacoby Brissett. Davis Mills. Ryan Tannehill. 

 

I don't know if they're all better or worse than Heinicke. The truth is its all a hodge podge of mediocre to bad QBs outside of like maybe 5-7 really good(or better) ones.

Exactly my point.  

 

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But Heinicke IS the backup QB.

 

Interesting.  Could have sworn Ron named him starter.

 

What most seem to miss is that Wentz has become a guy the league no longer regards as anything more than another poor option.

[Going Commando]

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

We have no way of knowing how Wentz would have fared with a much improved OL, running game, and defense.

 

The offensive line definitely wasn't much improved, that was Heinicke making it work where Wentz couldn't at all.  Heinicke was getting pressured at one of the highest rates in the NFL, he was just slithering around in bad pockets and getting the ball out at the second fast rate in the NFL.  That's where he's been way better than Wentz, who just didn't work out in a tough new system playing behind an awful, talentless offensive line.

 

The run game isn't really that good either, they are just staying ahead of the chains.  And the defense played well to start the season, they were just getting hung out to dry because the offense was so nonfunctional that they couldn't possess the ball and we were falling into big first half deficits almost every game.

 

Heinicke has been playing well and leading the team well, and has absolutely been a key to the turnaround of the season.  I was hopeful about Wentz in the offseason, but he's done here.  He's a gameday inactive and Sam Howell is the next man up, and he's only getting in if Heinicke gets hurt.  The only way Carson Wentz sees the field again for us this season is if Heinicke goes down with a serious injury.  All of the speculation about Heinicke getting benched that I've seen on this forum the past few weeks has been fantastical and surreal.  A lot of regulars who have been here a long time have a bizarre blindspot about Heinicke, and are not really rational about him at all.  You all really thought there was any chance that Ron Rivera would bench a hot QB who salvaged a dumpster fire top five pick season into a playoff push?  That is tantamount to thinking that Ron is either incompetent or wants to get fired.

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You don’t think I believe that Heinicke isn’t very good? Just last week I was called a hater. I can’t keep track of what I am with Heinous anymore

 

It's beyond comical at this point...

[CapsSkins]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Isn't the media at practices? You can look through their eyes instead. 

 

But we still need him to throw. That might still be an issue though. Also he has to throw the shorter balls with a touch or else the droppies will come back too. 

 

There is a portion of practice that is available to the media but they are not entirely public.

 

It's certainly a risk to contemplate a switch. Higher risk, higher reward. Like going for it on 4th down. But you'll have two weeks to get him ready, a game plan that eases the pressure on him, and a better (and hopefully healthier) supporting cast. 

[KDawg]

Our best hope is they are are playing possum with Howell and he is a likely candidate to be the starter next year. I know many will cite the whole “5th rounders rarely ever hit” rhetoric. But it’s a genuine possibility he can be a good starter. 
 

But outside of that we will either need to trade up, pony up too many assets or roll with what we got.

1 minute ago, 86 Snyder said:

Exactly my point.  

 

 

Interesting.  Could have sworn Ron named him starter.

 

What most seem to miss is that Wentz has become a guy the league no longer regards as anything more than another poor option.

What’s interesting? He was the backup to start the year and Rivera named the guy who was the QB while the team won games as the current starter (while Wentz has still been inactive).

 

also not sure why you quoted me to make that point about Wentz. Again, I’ll reiterate… I’d pretend like he doesn’t exist because come next year he has to be gone. So may as well pretend like it’s already the case.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, KDawg said:

Our best hope is they are are playing possum with Howell and he is a likely candidate to be the starter next year. I know many will cite the whole “5th rounders rarely ever hit” rhetoric. But it’s a genuine possibility he can be a good starter. 
 

But outside of that we will either need to trade up, pony up too many assets or roll with what we got.

 

I will say: Ron is old school and I think he genuinely believes in letting young QBs ride the bench to develop. Honestly, I like the approach. Howell should have an opportunity to, at the very least, compete for QB2 next year.

[86 Snyder]

2 minutes ago, mh86 said:

I wasn’t directing at you specifically. Just in general. Our fan base has been so starving for a QB that we become overly fascinated with backups for years. If we grabbed a rookie people would be lining up en masse with pitchforks to call for their benching after a few bad games. This thread would be back to arguing for another thousand pages 

I really doubt it dude.  If it’s a guy they take in the first two rounds, pretty sure erybody is going to want to see that unfold.  Howell doesn’t qualify bc he was drafted in the 5th.  At some point it’s be cool to see what he’s got, but hopefully we get a much better prospect in here.

[mhd24]

Brady is a FA.  Just saying.  If he wants to play one more year (TB is aging), we  look pretty attractive (with a new owner).

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

The offensive line definitely wasn't much improved, that was Heinicke making it work where Wentz couldn't at all.  Heinicke was getting pressured at one of the highest rates in the NFL, he was just slithering around in bad pockets and getting the ball out at the second fast rate in the NFL.  That's where he's been way better than Wentz, who just didn't work out in a tough new system playing behind an awful, talentless offensive line.

 

The run game isn't really that good either, they are just staying ahead of the chains.  And the defense played well to start the season, they were just getting hung out to dry because the offense was so nonfunctional that they couldn't possess the ball and we were falling into big first half deficits almost every game.

 

Heinicke has been playing well and leading the team well, and has absolutely been a key to the turnaround of the season.  I was hopeful about Wentz in the offseason, but he's done here.  He's a gameday inactive and Sam Howell is the next man up, and he's only getting in if Heinicke gets hurt.  The only way Carson Wentz sees the field again for us this season is if Heinicke goes down with a serious injury.  All of the speculation about Heinicke getting benched that I've seen on this forum the past few weeks has been fantastical and surreal.  A lot of regulars who have been here a long time have a bizarre blindspot about Heinicke, and are not really rational about him at all.  You all really thought there was any chance that Ron Rivera would bench a hot QB who salvaged a dumpster fire top five pick season into a playoff push?  That is tantamount to thinking that Ron is either incompetent or wants to get fired.

 

So you honest to god think that Heinicke is the main reason this team has turned around? Despite how limited they clearly are keeping his role when it comes to the game plan?

 

Also, I think we should find out exactly how you define a "hot QB"

 

Is it any QB who is on a winning team, or is it a QB who's actually lighting it up on the field? If it's the former, then sure, Heinicke is a "hot QB." If it's the latter, he's definitely not.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Our best hope is they are are playing possum with Howell and he is a likely candidate to be the starter next year. I know many will cite the whole “5th rounders rarely ever hit” rhetoric. But it’s a genuine possibility he can be a good starter. 
 

But outside of that we will either need to trade up, pony up too many assets or roll with what we got.

 

Not me. I want Howell to be the starter next year. He was projected to go way higher. Did we get lucked out? I want to see if that is the case before we ride him off. I wanted a rookie QB next year and we might already have that, like I have said before. 

[Ball Security]

17 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Taylor is playing like one of the worst QBs that have played any significant period of time this season. Im not sure whos in the argument with him besides Zach Wilson 

Would you say the reason the Commanders are winning more than a team with an elite QB like Herbert is that Rivera is just a superior talent evaluator and roster creator?

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Not me. I want Howell to be the starter next year. He was projected to go way higher. Did we get lucked out? I want to see if that is the case before we ride him off. I wanted a rookie QB next year and we might already have that, like I have said before. 

 

Ryan Mallet was projected to go much higher as well. 

[KDawg]

Just now, SkinsFTW said:

 

Ryan Mallet was projected to go much higher as well. 

Different prospects. Actually, entirely different.

[El Mexican]

On 12/3/2022 at 7:57 AM, goskins10 said:

How long do you think feel good ids going to last if the teams loses a game or two and TH is still having games like Atl - 138 yds on 14 of 23 for 60.9% comp and 2 TDs amd a pick. 

 

 

Nice stats.

 

I get what you're saying but I have to trust my eyes on this one. There's a night-day difference pre-post Heine.

If the D is playing better it's because the change in QB has allowed to rest. We are #1 or #2 in TOP  as of this moment.

 

 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Ryan Mallet was projected to go much higher as well. 

 

You must not have watched Pro Day and see how good Howell was. Like he was #1 in his passes. 

[86 Snyder]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Our best hope is they are are playing possum with Howell and he is a likely candidate to be the starter next year. I know many will cite the whole “5th rounders rarely ever hit” rhetoric. But it’s a genuine possibility he can be a good starter. 
 

But outside of that we will either need to trade up, pony up too many assets or roll with what we got.

What’s interesting? He was the backup to start the year and Rivera named the guy who was the QB while the team won games as the current starter (while Wentz has still been inactive).

 

also not sure why you quoted me to make that point about Wentz. Again, I’ll reiterate… I’d pretend like he doesn’t exist because come next year he has to be gone. So may as well pretend like it’s already the case.

I quoted you to make the point he’s now the starter.  I then started a new paragraph that wasn’t directed at you specifically.

 

He WAS the backup.  He IS the starter.  Hopefully there’s a new starter next year.

[SkinsFTW]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

You must not have watched Pro Day and see how good Howell was. Like he was #1 in his passes. 

 

No I don't watch any of that stuff. I was just pointing out that projection doesn't mean anything. If he was actually that great, he'd have gone in the 1st. Maybe it's just the height but he'd have to be the next Drew Brees to make up for that. 

[KDawg]

Just now, 86 Snyder said:

I quoted you to make the point he’s now the starter.  I then started a new paragraph that wasn’t directed at you specifically.

 

He WAS the backup.  He IS the starter.  Hopefully there’s a new starter next year.

I don’t generally look at guys who get a job due to injuries as the starter, regardless of what the HC says out loud. I don’t consider Brock Purdy as the Niners QB, for instance. But this is a really dumb conversation to have. It’s semantics.

[Zim489]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Some other real bad QBs this year: Mac Jones. Jacoby Brissett. Davis Mills. Ryan Tannehill. 

 

I don't know if they're all better or worse than Heinicke. The truth is its all a hodge podge of mediocre to bad QBs outside of like maybe 5-7 really good(or better) ones.

I would take literally all of those over Taylor and I hate Mac as an option. 

[CapsSkins]

Oh god, Jason Garrett just said on the SNF Halftime Show that Brock Purdy has MOXIE!

[Captain Wiggles]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

Oh god, Jason Garrett just said on the SNF Halftime Show that Brock Purdy has MOXIE!

 

[86 Snyder]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t generally look at guys who get a job due to injuries as the starter, regardless of what the HC says out loud. I don’t consider Brock Purdy as the Niners QB, for instance. But this is a really dumb conversation to have. It’s semantics.

I don’t see it the same as the Niners at all.  Now if Purdy strings a bunch of wins together and Jimmy gets healthy, and they still stick with Purdy, then he would be the starter.  Except they still have Lance with all the draft capital in the world so he is actually the starter in every scenario, just injured.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by 86 Snyder