The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DJHJR86]

11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 Definitive statements based on events that haven’t occurred are the opposite of that.

 

We have a whole body of work over the course of Carson's career that shows that's routinely who he is.  The Colts found this out in week 18 of last season.  And that was with the leagues leading rusher in yards and touchdowns on the roster.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to PFF guy this morning talk about Heinicke.  Said he's the strangest QB he's ever graded.  On the aggregate he doesn't play well.  Accuracy is bad.  But talked about his knack in big moments where he has some great plays.

 

 

[DJHJR86]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to PFF guy this morning talk about Heinicke.  Said he's the strangest QB he's ever graded.  On the aggregate he doesn't play well.  Accuracy is bad.  But talked about his knack in big moments where he has some great plays.

 

There is truth to this.  There have been games where he has played meh to terrible in 95% of the game, and then with less than 3 minutes to go randomly starts making throws and plays you wouldn't expect him to.  It's a reason why we beat the Packers, Colts, and tied with the Giants.  Sheehan described him as clutch.  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

There is truth to this.  There have been games where he has played meh to terrible in 95% of the game, and then with less than 3 minutes to go randomly starts making throws and plays you wouldn't expect him to.  It's a reason why we beat the Packers, Colts, and tied with the Giants.  Sheehan described him as clutch.  

 

the PFF guy who is a Commanders fan, I've heard him in other segments, its not hard to pick up he doesn't think Taylor is the answer and its not even close and wants them to upgrade next year but for now he thinks you ride with Taylor because of the wins and he doesn't have a ton of confidence in Wentz.  

Edited December 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

There is truth to this.  There have been games where he has played meh to terrible in 95% of the game, and then with less than 3 minutes to go randomly starts making throws and plays you wouldn't expect him to.  It's a reason why we beat the Packers, Colts, and tied with the Giants.  Sheehan described him as clutch.  

 

Is it though? Had he not played like such complete dog **** the earlier parts of the game none of those heroics would have been neccessary. And if the D had not kept us in those games while he was stinking it up, the last minute heroics woudl not have mattered. Could have easily been 2 or 3 TDs behind but the D kept making stops. 

 

TH is fun to watch in those final minutes. And he seems to have a spark and just thinks better. But if he could figure out a way to play like that earlier in the game maybe we woulkd not have the need to have those last second drives. 

[mhd24]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

There is truth to this.  There have been games where he has played meh to terrible in 95% of the game, and then with less than 3 minutes to go randomly starts making throws and plays you wouldn't expect him to.  It's a reason why we beat the Packers, Colts, and tied with the Giants.  Sheehan described him as clutch.  

He’s also insanely lucky.  Threw a pass to Jahan before the TD that a better DB intercepts on the tying drive.  He threw a pick 6 that Moerig dropped in the last drive of the Raiders game last year.  

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

He’s also insanely lucky.

 

Is he lucky...or as everyone continues to point out, just wildly inaccurate?  

[FLSkinz83]

In 22 starts, TH has never thrown more than two INT's in a game.   He's inaccurate at times, but again, the pass rush is often the reason he's inaccurate.  Most, if not all QB's are less accurate under pressure.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Richardson should be interesting, draft geeks are all over the map as to where he'd fall.  I am not hung up on him but i am not really intrigued right now with Qbs that could fall to us early except him and I still have to think deeper about that -- maybe Penix but am afraid of his injury history. 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Richardson should be interesting, draft geeks are all over the map as to where he'd fall.  I am not hung up on him but i am not really intrigued right now with Qbs that could fall to us early except him and I still have to think deeper about that -- maybe Penix but am afraid of his injury history. 

 

 

 

 

He's very intriguing, but I wouldn't take him in the first round.    The only QB I would draft early is Bryce Young, but he's not getting to where we pick.

 

a projected day 3 QB I like is Cam Rising from Utah.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

44 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

We have a whole body of work over the course of Carson's career that shows that's routinely who he is.  The Colts found this out in week 18 of last season.  And that was with the leagues leading rusher in yards and touchdowns on the roster.  

 

 

I don’t even really like Wentz and again, could care less if he ever plays another snap here.  But if we got the version of Wentz the Colts got, we wouldn’t be talking about Heinicke.  He took 32 sacks as opposed to 23 in 1/3 as many games.  3:1 TD/int ratio.  That team has also fallen off a cliff since they jettisoned him, including the running game.  We never even attempted to save him from himself.  Scott had been so long without an arm in his QB room, he wasn’t about to hand it off very often. 

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Listening to PFF guy this morning talk about Heinicke.  Said he's the strangest QB he's ever graded.  On the aggregate he doesn't play well.  Accuracy is bad.  But talked about his knack in big moments where he has some great plays.

 

🤣 

 

I literally said to my son last night that he’s the strangest QB we’ve ever had and perhaps the strangest QB to ever play.  Generally backups have sort of a baseline of mediocrity that they consistently play with.  Not too up, not too down.  Heinicke though generally looks like he doesn’t belong and plays like it the majority of the time, but also has the ability at times to be an elite playmaker.  

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

He's very intriguing, but I wouldn't take him in the first round.    The only QB I would draft early is Bryce Young, but he's not getting to where we pick.

 

a projected day 3 QB I like is Cam Rising from Utah.  

 

I have to spend some time on Richardson.  Right now, I have watched some of his games sporadically and liked his potential from what i saw. Talent wise its hard to miss he's a freak. But also wildly inconsistent, needs to work on mechancis.  He's a project.

 

The dude i like in the mid rounds is Jake Haener. He plays in that Heinicke moxie style.  Similar size -- slightly taller.  Doesn't have a strong arm but its stronger than Taylor.  The key for me he's more accurate than Taylor. I gather from your posts you think Taylor's accuracy is fine.  For me I think his accruacy sucks -- its not even debatable. If you look at his adjusted accuracy numbers from PFF last year, when they had a good O line, it was 38th.  Sounds right watching him.  Taylor brings something to the field no doubt -- moxie, clutch gene, fire, mobility in the pocket.  Accuracy -- not to my eyes, not even close.

 

The wildcard for most college QBs among other thing is can they read defenses and learn the pro scheme fast. I don't know about that as to Haener.  But I do know talent wise he looks like an upgraded version of Taylor.  And for those that love Taylor's style of play -- this IMO is the current college version of it.  Mobility in the pocket, tough, gritty, playmaker, moxie on steroids.  I talked about him a lot in the QB thread last year but alas he decided not to come out in that draft. 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I literally said to my son last night that he’s the strangest QB we’ve ever had and perhaps the strangest QB to ever play.  Generally backups have sort of a baseline of mediocrity that they consistently play with.  Not too up, not too down.  Heinicke though generally looks like he doesn’t belong and plays like it the majority of the time, but also has the ability at times to be an elite playmaker.  

 

Emotionally its a weird ride.  We all watch a lot of NFL and don't see QBs miss throws the way Taylor does routinely.  His accuracy is just wild.  i am used to seeing that with some rifle arm QBs but seeing from a soft thrower like Taylor who doesn't stretch the field is really weird.  So i am often cursing at him while watching some of these errant throws that don't plague most of the rest of the NFL QBs.  But then when the chips are down when they need a big drive at the end he's one of my favorite QBs in the league.

 

The key though is obviously the defense and the running game has to take the lead of the dance to give Taylor those moments.  I think we are likely screwed in a shoot out against a hot QB -- Taylor got outdueled in the 4th quarter by Kirk but Kirk is a good QB.  But Taylor against Daniel Jones, Mariota, Davis Mills -- my money is on Taylor in those tight spots.   Can he do it against a good QB, probably, but I don't think its slam dunk.  but I feel great when it against name that mediocre QB. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Stay away from the super raw project types like Richardson. Other than Josh Allen they pretty much universally flame out. 

[Zim489]

9 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Big picture is Wentz gone at the end of the season. His signing was a mistake. Time to move on.

 

TH stays as a backup and competes for starting job next Spring. Probably against another high-profile has been. Howell gets some reps.

 

There's no way Wentz comes in cold in the middle of December, baring an injury on TH. Even then, maybe RR goes with Howell.

A Howell TH QB room screams we are tanking but knowing Ron he isnt doing that so ill be even more angry with him. 

 

But I dont expect him to be here regardless 

[DJHJR86]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But if we got the version of Wentz the Colts got, we wouldn’t be talking about Heinicke.  He took 32 sacks as opposed to 23 in 1/3 as many games.  3:1 TD/int ratio.  

 

Are we getting the offensive line from the Colts as well?  Because without them, Heinicke enters the conversation.

[LD0506]

Ole Moxie got y'all in a frenzy

 

I just wonder what the hell happened to TH's legs? I've seen several instances where he might have broke and run for a first down and didn't. Is he being coached not to? 

 

Howell could be an interesting option, the kid's a gamer, might have some moxie in him but you'd have to build a team and a plan around that, and just IMO it kinda feels like Turner has this great plan that players have to adapt to rather than building your plan to make best use of the available skillset on your roster.

 

But i leave it to all you mavens to figure it out, I do enjoy listening in

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

Are we getting the offensive line from the Colts as well?  Because without them, Heinicke enters the conversation.

Well what happened then?

 

They have fallen off a cliff this season.  Were they ever really all that great at pass pro to begin with?  With no passing game, they also aren’t running it very well either.

 

I find it hard to use the Colts as some measuring stick that Carson was the problem there.  They are remarkably worse without him in both phases of the offense.

 

Dude played 6 games here, in a brand new system where the only QB to run it decently has been in it for years.  With his interior OL decimated by injury and he’s already immobile to boot.

 

Call it excuses or whatever you want, but it’s all legitimate and none of it means that he would for certain be a good fit here even after some time and a healthy OL.  Hence why Rivera is hesitant to insert him back into the lineup, as it’s too big of a risk.  But I’m sure Rivera like many of us is curious what he would look like in different circumstances.  Losing Larsen for the season though, I think makes that decision even easier.

[Warhead36]

If we had last year's Wentz with last year's OL, we're a sure fire playoff team. But with this OL with all the injuries, Heinicke is likely the better option. 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Stay away from the super raw project types like Richardson. Other than Josh Allen they pretty much universally flame out. 

 

Josh Allen is far from the only freaky tool QB that has worked out in the NFL.  lol, i recall mentioning Mahomes on the draft thread at the time (and no I wasn't pushing him but was doing a soft sell) and recall the push back there after saying he's got insane talent but he's raw.  And then all the goofing came next about you think Mahomes is "raw" -- raw doesn't even explain how raw he is.  Lamar Jackson was bashed by some.    Hurts considered by some just a dude who can run but not much of a passer.   Freaks with mobiity have a chance. 

 

As the PFF guys among others say swing for the fences at QB and if you miss try again.

 

Hit and miss throughout the draft at QB, more miss than hit.  but for me its shy away from 2nd tier type QBs with little mobiity in the first round -- say no to Christian Ponder, Josh Rosen, Haskins, Campbell, etc

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Is he lucky...or as everyone continues to point out, just wildly inaccurate?  

Both. He's wildly inaccurate and when hes mildly inaccurate in ways that puts the ball in dangerous positions its often dropped by the defender. Outside of Zach Wilson and a bunch of other scrubs in mop up duty Taylor has the worst TO worthy play percentage in the league. He also has the lowest drop % of any QB in the league. 3 times lower than any other QB in the league with meaningful snaps. Taylor is at .8% drop rate with only 1 total drop thus far in his 7 games. Thats an obscene number. Geno Smith is the next closes at 2.7. 

 

This team is entirely built upon luck. They are second luckiest in the entire league with having an entire win added on luck alone 

 

 

 

The teams they have beat are a combined 33-53-1 record. Take out the eagles win which was a game where a handful of extraordinary events had to happen for us to win and and its 22-52-1. They have the easiest non divisional schedule in the league. One score games are essentially coin flips over a period of time averaging out for most teams at around 47-53%. Teams even great ones rarely deviate higher than that. This team is currently 5-2 in one score games. 6-2 if you want to count the eagles game. Teams will often flip from 30% one year to 70% the next to even out. Raiders this year are the prime example. They were 7-1 last year in score games. Last I looked they were 1-6 this year. If just one little thing in just half of the 8 one score games we have been in and even just ended up at 500 in those games were 4-4 in them and this team is 5-7-1. The average margin of victory in our wins is miniscule compared to our margin in our losses.

 

This entire season is everything going right and were barely beating the worst schedule in the league with some of the worst QB opposition. 

[Est.1974]

Rivera going into year 4 and drafting another QB seems a long shot to me. However the situation is just as screwed up now as it was heading into last offseason so who the Hell knows.

[Zim489]

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Rivera going into year 4 and drafting another QB seems a long shot to me. However the situation is just as screwed up now as it was heading into last offseason so who the Hell knows.

If hes here, which I dont think he will be, I bet he retires not having to want to be another lame duck again, I honestly dont know what the hell theyll do. 

 

My Wish list:

 

1.Lamar 2. AR12 3.Howell

 

For the love of god do not have Taylor on this team. Find some one Dalton esq to be the back up to Howell. Ron doesnt deserve to get to year 4 before finally taking a legitimate swing at QB and possibly screwing up the future on a big trade up for some one like Levis. 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

If hes here, which I dont think he will be, I bet he retires not having to want to be another lame duck again, I honestly dont know what the hell theyll do. 

 

My Wish list:

 

1.Lamar 2. AR12 3.Howell

 

For the love of god do not have Taylor on this team. Find some one Dalton esq to be the back up to Howell. Ron doesnt deserve to get to year 4 before finally taking a legitimate swing at QB and possibly screwing up the future on a big trade up for some one like Levis. 

I actually think he’ll retire from coaching as well. Sale of the team dictates so much for 2023. 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Well what happened then?

 

They lost two of their starters going into this season?