Jack Del Rio: Another Bust In The Making.

[Koolblue13]

There is obviously something going on that we are not privy to. It's the same scheme, Harris and Mills are both well respected coaches. Holcomb has been calling the plays for 2 years now.

 

Something behind the scenes is happening. Bostic and Fuller have never really been good, but not this bad.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is obviously something going on that we are not privy to. It's the same scheme, Harris and Mills are both well respected coaches. Holcomb has been calling the plays for 2 years now.

 

Something behind the scenes is happening. Bostic and Fuller have never really been good, but not this bad.

Vaxx/anti-vaxx mutiny? IIRC the Colts were also right there with us in terms of being super low in vaccinated players and they're 0-3 and underachieving(in fairness they've played a brutal opening schedule).

Edited September 28, 2021 by Warhead36

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Vaxx/anti-vaxx mutiny? IIRC the Colts were also right there with us in terms of being super low in vaccinated players and they're 0-3 and underachieving(in fairness they've played a brutal opening schedule).

I think Ron talking out the side of his mouth certainly didn't inspire any leadership. I definitely think that was the start of it. Now they're jawing back and forth in the media. 

[PartyPosse]

Jesus. So now players are sabotaging their season/careers because of vaccination beliefs. I swear some of you are too much.

[NoCalMike]

I am not going to entertain any of the mutiny stuff (for now) way too early.

 

I think it is as simple as this.  Every time a passing play is called, the QB pre-snap is going to look for which WR/TEs are lining up against a linebacker or even a safety 1 on 1.  The QB is going to recognize this mismatch immediately and likely look to throw the ball to that person.  We see it every game, we saw it a bunch last year too.  That is just Football 101, it isn't something that is only game planned for against our defense, it is a universal trigger for the QB.   The problem is our defense can't seem to make any kind of adjustments to this lack of coverage ability and have just resigned to the fact that the QB will have an easy completion every time someone runs right by a linebacker into an empty part of the field.  

 

In theory the pass rush is supposed to help level the burden.  For example on the 4th down play that we stopped, the pass rush put enough pressure on Allen quick enough that he had to rush a throw to the flat and Davis was right there to stop the catch before the 1st down marker.  That is an example of the defense working as intended.  If Allen isn't pressured on that play, he makes that throw further towards the sideline so that the target is making the catch on the run and is likely able to turn up field and Davis is chasing him instead of tackling him in stride without having to shift his hips around.    

[Warhead36]

27 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I am not going to entertain any of the mutiny stuff (for now) way too early.

 

I think it is as simple as this.  Every time a passing play is called, the QB pre-snap is going to look for which WR/TEs are lining up against a linebacker or even a safety 1 on 1.  The QB is going to recognize this mismatch immediately and likely look to throw the ball to that person.  We see it every game, we saw it a bunch last year too.  That is just Football 101, it isn't something that is only game planned for against our defense, it is a universal trigger for the QB.   The problem is our defense can't seem to make any kind of adjustments to this lack of coverage ability and have just resigned to the fact that the QB will have an easy completion every time someone runs right by a linebacker into an empty part of the field.  

 

In theory the pass rush is supposed to help level the burden.  For example on the 4th down play that we stopped, the pass rush put enough pressure on Allen quick enough that he had to rush a throw to the flat and Davis was right there to stop the catch before the 1st down marker.  That is an example of the defense working as intended.  If Allen isn't pressured on that play, he makes that throw further towards the sideline so that the target is making the catch on the run and is likely able to turn up field and Davis is chasing him instead of tackling him in stride without having to shift his hips around.    

That's a good point. And on that 4th down play, we ran very tight press man coverage. We need to do that more often. Just about every decent play we've made on D thus far have been when we play that style. I think the players know that but the coaches refuse to employ it more often out of fear that we'll give up big plays(but we're giving up big plays playing zone anyway so again there is nothing to lose really).

[skins island connection]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

That's a good point. And on that 4th down play, we ran very tight press man coverage. We need to do that more often. Just about every decent play we've made on D thus far have been when we play that style. I think the players know that but the coaches refuse to employ it more often out of fear that we'll give up big plays(but we're giving up big plays playing zone anyway so again there is nothing to lose really).

  What has me ripping my hair out the most is the lack of any LBer getting in the passing lanes, at all.  I watched Bostic standing almost still, next to a Bills TE; in fact the TE ran a simple 5 yd route, stopped and faced Allen, and Bostic was 5 feet to his right. Allen threw the ball to him, THEN Bostic goes to make a tackle. I get it, LBers aren't always gonna be in a position to do that but my word it happened quite a few times. It was read-and-react defense. 

 

Maybe the LBers should be put on a diet, and re-taught the position and the tricks of the trade so to speak.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Who is our LB coach?  Maybe we need another one...

[Monkman56]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:15 PM, pico926 said:

Agree 100%. You had an entire offseason to address LB. They were horrible last year and drafting a 1st rounder while keeping the same trash is unforgivable.

Yup so we're left with a rookie and holcomb who everybody knew was very average at best. Bostic although pretty good

may be the best of them and thats scary.

[PartyPosse]

Are Mayo, Hudson and Norris really that bad that they’re not worth exploring??

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Monkman56 said:

Yup so we're left with a rookie and holcomb who everybody knew was very average at best. Bostic although pretty good

may be the best of them and thats scary.

 

Bostic is in no way, shape or form the best of them.

 

It's Davis > Empty Space > Holcomb > Bostic in my opinion. 

[skins island connection]

Today the Saints are making the WFT look like the " Aints ".

 

Once again, a wiiide open WR gets a gimme TD and the secondary is more interested in how good their shoes look.

look, I get it; some are high on Del Rio, with the claims of him having great defenses, but its crickets when you look at his 2nd year.

 

There is a reason he wasn't even in the NFL for 2-3 years; because he is no good. 

Players have to be constantly taught, coached if you will, prepared for situational formations, etc.  These morons in the secondary are making the same mistakes week in and week out; THAT is solely on DelTaco. It is HIS job to correct issues in the defense, but its just not happening. Its HIS job to move players around to try something different, and it is HIS job to get on his assistants to get them to EARN their damn paycheck. 

 

Defend DelTaco if you wish, but you are wrong...

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

Today the Saints are making the WFT look like the " Aints ".

 

Once again, a wiiide open WR gets a gimme TD and the secondary is more interested in how good their shoes look.

look, I get it; some are high on Del Rio, with the claims of him having great defenses, but its crickets when you look at his 2nd year.

 

There is a reason he wasn't even in the NFL for 2-3 years; because he is no good. 

Players have to be constantly taught, coached if you will, prepared for situational formations, etc.  These morons in the secondary are making the same mistakes week in and week out; THAT is solely on DelTaco. It is HIS job to correct issues in the defense, but its just not happening. Its HIS job to move players around to try something different, and it is HIS job to get on his assistants to get them to EARN their damn paycheck. 

 

Defend DelTaco if you wish, but you are wrong...

Haslett was out of the league too

[Wildbunny]

Joe Barry has a job at the Packers....

[abdcskins]

Bring a respected veteran coach to the Skins, watch him flop.  Doesn't matter if there are "pieces," Snyder is contagious with his failures as an owner.  

 

That hail mary was a joke.  

[FootballZombie]

Couple bad plays by the D but they also handed the ball to the O w/ premo real estate multiple times. Should have been up big in the first half and the D played well enough to win a game.

 

Everything didn't come together, but this was an improvement by the D. O just didn't carry their weight early, which led to a D collapse late.

 

I am far less upset w/ my D after this game then I have been in past games.

[skins island connection]

28 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Haslett was out of the league too

 

 its the name recognition thing, and thats squarely on Richie Rich himself. 

Snyder just wants to look flashy and draw in ticket sales. I've defended Snyder to a degree, but i'm done with him. Far as i'm concerned, DelTaco, Collins, LB coach Russ, secondary coach and pretty much the entire defensive backfield can all take a cruise with Snyder on his yacht to the Bermuda Triangle...

[skins4eva]

5 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 its the name recognition thing, and thats squarely on Richie Rich himself. 

Snyder just wants to look flashy and draw in ticket sales. I've defended Snyder to a degree, but i'm done with him. Far as i'm concerned, DelTaco, Collins, LB coach Russ, secondary coach and pretty much the entire defensive backfield can all take a cruise with Snyder on his yacht to the Bermuda Triangle...

The Dan Snyder Sadness Machine rolls on!

[Wyvern]

I still don't feel that all of these defensive woes can be attributed to Del Rio.  Perhaps the WFT F.O. and coaches felt they could 'get by' for one more season relying/hoping on Collins to return to his former All-Pro performance level, and on Bostic not losing that extra step to age.  I also think the defensive coaches had banked on the WFT D-line generating enough pressure, that it to bail out the back seven, until back-seven gelled as a more organized unit, and developed more experience for working well together.

 

To me, the worst problem, now that Bostic's gone, is Collins -- I'm struggling to see if Landon's done ANYTHING in the way of a standout play, to balance out all his horrible plays.  So far I havent.  Del Rio needs to decide what to do with Collins, hopefully something to maximize any remaining value this over-priced player has. At a minimum, recognize they made a bad deal for Collins and minimize the damage of having him starting in a key role for the back seven

 

I'm not sure this can be solved by bringing in a new Defensive Coordinator, changing to different  play-schemes, or bringing in more new players (who'd then  have to learn how to play in a system that was new to them.) IMHO, It's still about finding a way to get the existing core of defensive players, to ramp up the quality of their playing responsibilities,  playing, and remembering how as teammates on defense to support each other in a more coordinated fashion.  Frankly,  the back seven need more players who can be sergeants on the field, because all the cheerleading motivation by the D-linemen in the world, won't help that back seven get into the right position or to know instantly when certain  defensive coverage responsibilities are being handed off to them.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Wyvern

[China]

1 hour ago, Wyvern said:

Frankly,  the back seven need more players who can be sergeants on the field, because all the cheerleading motivation by the D-linemen in the world, won't help that back seven get into the right position or to know instantly when certain  defensive coverage responsibilities are being handed off to them.

 

Some of that is the responsibility of the coaches to make sure the players understand their assignments and are in the right position to make plays.  If they're there and not making the plays, then it's a talent issue.  If they're not where they need to be it's coaching, either the coached aren't putting them in the right position, or they're not following their coaching and going where they're supposed to.

 

Opponents have scored 160 points in 5 games, or 32 points a game.  The WFT offense isn't great and will never be able to match that.  They need the defense to keep opponents scoring less, and get more turnovers to provide the offense with shorter fields.    Through 5 games they only have 1 interception (note Cowboys DB Diggs already has 5 6 by himself), and one fumble recovery.  That's not going to get it done.

Edited October 10, 2021 by China

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I wanted blood after the Bills game and Del Rio was in my target.  Since that time, I’m leaning more towards this being simply a talent void.

 

I’m curious though who makes the call on Collins starting.  Is this dictated by Rivera or is Jack really believing he’s the best there?

[Warhead36]

51 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I still don't feel that all of these defensive woes can be attributed to Del Rio.  Perhaps the WFT F.O. and coaches felt they could 'get by' for one more season relying/hoping on Collins to return to his former All-Pro performance level, and on Bostic not losing that extra step to age.  I also think the defensive coaches had banked on the WFT D-line generating enough pressure, that it to bail out the back seven, until back-seven gelled as a more organized unit, and developed more experience for working well together.

 

To me, the worst problem, now that Bostic's gone, is Collins -- I'm struggling to see if Landon's done ANYTHING in the way of a standout play, to balance out all his horrible plays.  So far I havent.  Del Rio needs to decide what to do with Collins, hopefully something to maximize any remaining value this over-priced player has. At a minimum, recognize they made a bad deal for Collins and minimize the damage of having him starting in a key role for the back seven

 

I'm not sure this can be solved by bringing in a new Defensive Coordinator, changing to different  play-schemes, or bringing in more new players (who'd then  have to learn how to play in a system that was new to them.) IMHO, It's still about finding a way to get the existing core of defensive players, to ramp up the quality of their playing responsibilities,  playing, and remembering how as teammates on defense to support each other in a more coordinated fashion.  Frankly,  the back seven need more players who can be sergeants on the field, because all the cheerleading motivation by the D-linemen in the world, won't help that back seven get into the right position or to know instantly when certain  defensive coverage responsibilities are being handed off to them.

I kinda agree with you yeah. I blame some on Del Rio but not all that much. Guys we expected to be great haven't been. Guys we expected to even be decent haven't been. I think Del Rio is scrambling to find some combination of players/scheme that works and in fairness for the most part today it was better than it has been(still not great).

[IrepDC]

After 4 weeks of blown coverages, to come out today and still have multiple blown coverages for wide open TDs is unacceptable. They say they're watching film but basic things like cover 3 have been kicking our asses all year. These are focus and communication issues, and the coaches should have done more to fix this by now. 

[Warhead36]

Its just mind boggling how it keeps happening. I mean I'd love a concrete answer but there just isn't one.

[skins island connection]

50 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I still don't feel that all of these defensive woes can be attributed to Del Rio.  Perhaps the WFT F.O. and coaches felt they could 'get by' for one more season relying/hoping on Collins to return to his former All-Pro performance level, and on Bostic not losing that extra step to age.  I also think the defensive coaches had banked on the WFT D-line generating enough pressure, that it to bail out the back seven, until back-seven gelled as a more organized unit, and developed more experience for working well together.

 

To me, the worst problem, now that Bostic's gone, is Collins -- I'm struggling to see if Landon's done ANYTHING in the way of a standout play, to balance out all his horrible plays.  So far I havent.  Del Rio needs to decide what to do with Collins, hopefully something to maximize any remaining value this over-priced player has. At a minimum, recognize they made a bad deal for Collins and minimize the damage of having him starting in a key role for the back seven

 

I'm not sure this can be solved by bringing in a new Defensive Coordinator, changing to different  play-schemes, or bringing in more new players (who'd then  have to learn how to play in a system that was new to them.) IMHO, It's still about finding a way to get the existing core of defensive players, to ramp up the quality of their playing responsibilities,  playing, and remembering how as teammates on defense to support each other in a more coordinated fashion.  Frankly,  the back seven need more players who can be sergeants on the field, because all the cheerleading motivation by the D-linemen in the world, won't help that back seven get into the right position or to know instantly when certain  defensive coverage responsibilities are being handed off to them.

Some of it could be attributed to lack of talent, but isn't that what a 'coach' is supposed to do? 

We've watched for 5 straight weeks as WRs are wide open in the secondary 30 yds downfield with NOBODY remotely close to them, scoring a TD.       5. Straight. Weeks.

These aren't guys suiting up for the first time being thrown out to the wolves, they have experience in playing the game. We watch LBers and CBs standing flat-footed, 10 yds off the LOS as WRs streak past them, thus end up being in catch-up mode. 

 

Yes, Collins is a pile of dead fish baking in the sun for 2 weeks awful, no argument there. At this point they may as well cut him and take the lumps with a replacement, because we're taking the lumps WITH him right now.

 

I doubt they have a lick of respect for DelTaco; all of this talk of him being a good DC, but the stats i've seen on him 1st yr vs 2nd yr reveal something completely opposite of good. 

Assistants as well, especially the LB coach and evidently Harris the CB coach isn't getting anything in the players' heads because they're constantly looking lost out there. coaches and the assistants are there to 'teach' these guys, to 'position' these guys, to get them on the same page with each other to work as a unit, but thats not what we're seeing, is it...