Jack Del Rio: Another Bust In The Making.

[Renegade7]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Default for Alt

 

 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

[Renegade7]

@Koolblue13

 

 

Since when does ANYONE tank for a *checks notes* offensive linemen?

 

We could make the case for needing a whole new oline, we're better off trading back and getting more then one high round rookie for the line then putting all our eggs into one guy who plays only one position.

 

Maybe I'm biased against the whole premise of losing in order to win...but I'm this close to posting in the Josh Process thread that what triggered the process was 76ers not being able to get pass the second round, and they still haven't since they did that.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

 

Pass.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

@Koolblue13

 

 

Since when does ANYONE tank for a *checks notes* offensive linemen?

 

We could make the case for needing a whole new oline, we're better off trading back and getting more then one high round rookie for the line then putting all our eggs into one guy who plays only one position.

 

Maybe I'm biased against the whole premise of losing in order to win...but I'm this close to posting in the Josh Process thread that what triggered the process was 76ers not being able to get pass the second round, and they still haven't since they did that.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

 

Pass.

The default for Alt thing was a joke. I don't think us losing out and picking high will be intentional. I think it will be because our garbage coaches losing the team.

 

And the "position flex" thing can get flushed with Rivera and his trash roster management.

 

I want a LT who locks the position down for the next 12 years. I don't give two ****s if he plays anywhere else on the line.

[Renegade7]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The default for Alt thing was a joke. I don't think us losing out and picking high will be intentional. I think it will be because our garbage coaches losing the team.

 

And the "position flex" thing can get flushed with Rivera and his trash roster management.

 

I want a LT who locks the position down for the next 12 years. I don't give two ****s if he plays anywhere else on the line.

 

This is fair.

 

I remember when we used to take LT for granted because we seemed to always an all-pro one even when we perpetual bottom feeders of the division.

 

I hope we're smart and accept that if we want to fix this quickly, we'll need to sign free agents and draft well.

 

Folks claiming we have the money to resign Sweat and Young need to hold on to their notes for when this comes up this offseason instead of acting brand new.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Renegade7

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is fair.

 

I remember when we used to take LT for granted because we seemed to always an all-pro one even when we perpetual bottom feeders of the division.

 

I hope we're smart and except that if we want to fix this quickly, we'll need to sign free agents and draft well.

 

Folks claiming we have the money to resign Sweat and Young need to hold on to their notes for when this comes up this offseason instead of acting brand new.

I'm willing to bet that the HOG is going to bring in great money people and a solid GM to build this team right.

 

This is a great draft for OL and I think FA will be too. I also think there is a lot of talent on this team and we now have our QB.

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Tank for what? A qb?

 

Ya'll trippin...

 

Edit:  Seriously, lets rewind the tape here...

 

We had the #2 overall pick in the draft 95% of ES was 100% we had to take Young, including our HC.  Fast Forward to today and I'm not sure even half the board even wants him here any more, nor we pick up his last year option.

 

Rewind back to last draft, we pick Forbes then Gonzales goes the next pick.  Fast forward to today and rookie looks like a rookie playing the position of toothpick while Gonzales looks like a veteran already.

 

Ya'll see a pattern here?  It's not about getting high picks, a tank won't save us here.  We need a reloaded scouting department and front office where the HC isn't in charge of the GM, needs to be other way around, at minimum.

 

Yeah well the bozos who made those decisions won't be making the decisions next spring. So this history won't mean anything.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

@Koolblue13

 

 

Since when does ANYONE tank for a *checks notes* offensive linemen?

 

We could make the case for needing a whole new oline, we're better off trading back and getting more then one high round rookie for the line then putting all our eggs into one guy who plays only one position.

 

Maybe I'm biased against the whole premise of losing in order to win...but I'm this close to posting in the Josh Process thread that what triggered the process was 76ers not being able to get pass the second round, and they still haven't since they did that.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/

 

Pass.

 

I am not to the point of rooting for losses but they would end up being beneficial.  You are right, nobody tanks for an OL. But having a top 10 or better pick not only in round one but throughout the draft, gives you far better opportunities and options.  If they want to trade back their pick holds more value, again picking early in every round does as well. There could be a huge difference between the 1st or 2nd rated LT and the 3rd or 4th.    

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[Renegade7]

23 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Yeah well the bozos who made those decisions won't be making the decisions next spring. So this history won't mean anything.  

 

To keep this conversation honest,, we've had previous administrations make stupid decisions before them.

 

The point stands, we need people that know what they're doing no matter where we pick.  Picking higher doesn't change that.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

To keep this conversation honest,, we've had previous administrations make stupid decisions before them.

 

The point stands, we need people that know what they're doing no matter where we pick.  Picking higher doesn't change that.

I'm guessing that our next GM comes from either the Lions, Seahawks or Eagles. Sip posted some of the hottest potential next GM candidates a while back. They all prioritize OL. Specifically center and tackles, so I'd think that's priority #1 for the next GM. If we pick high, we can easily grab a LT and RT in the first two rounds next draft. It's a great draft for it.

[Conn]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Tank for what? A qb?

 

Ya'll trippin...

 

Edit:  Seriously, lets rewind the tape here...

 

We had the #2 overall pick in the draft 95% of ES was 100% we had to take Young, including our HC.  Fast Forward to today and I'm not sure even half the board even wants him here any more, nor we pick up his last year option.

 

Rewind back to last draft, we pick Forbes then Gonzales goes the next pick.  Fast forward to today and rookie looks like a rookie playing the position of toothpick while Gonzales looks like a veteran already.

 

Ya'll see a pattern here?  It's not about getting high picks, a tank won't save us here.  We need a reloaded scouting department and front office where the HC isn't in charge of the GM, needs to be other way around, at minimum.

We know all that. Anyone who sees value in a higher draft pick (for any reason, not just QB) is automatically implying that they want a stud GM and FO and coaching staff to go along with it. You’re arguing against nobody. 

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm guessing that our next GM comes from either the Lions, Seahawks or Eagles. Sip posted some of the hottest potential next GM candidates a while back. They all prioritize OL. Specifically center and tackles, so I'd think that's priority #1 for the next GM. If we pick high, we can easily grab a LT and RT in the first two rounds next draft. It's a great draft for it.

I think Stromberg will be the C next season. He looked solid at G in preseason and a year in an NFL strength program will help. 
 

Joe Alt at LT would be an absolutely ideal pick IMO. That we look like we might be drafting in the range to have a shot at getting him is depressing though.

7 minutes ago, Conn said:

We know all that. Anyone who sees value in a higher draft pick (for any reason, not just QB) is automatically implying that they want a stud GM and FO and coaching staff to go along with it. You’re arguing against nobody. 

If we are in the range to pick top ten next year it’s an absolute certainty that the whole front office and coaching staff will be new.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I think Stromberg will be the C next season. He looked solid at G in preseason and a year in an NFL strength program will help. 
 

Joe Alt at LT would be an absolutely ideal pick IMO. That we look like we might be drafting in the range to have a shot at getting him is depressing though.

If we are in the range to pick top ten next year it’s an absolute certainty that the whole front office and coaching staff will be new.

Yeah, I like Stromberg to start at center next year as well. Fixing our OL is going to be pretty easy I think. We'll be in a good position to do it.

 

I guessed we'd be at 7-10 this year, but that feels lofty right now. These next two weeks should be very telling. Nice that the Panthers don't have a first this round as well.

[MartinC]

Assuming Forbes is benched against Atlanta that would mean that the only contribution from this years draft in that game will be some snaps on special teams for Quan Martin. 
 

This defensive staff was given two DBs with the first and second picks and both look lost.
 

We have both a defensive backs coach AND a safeties coach (to me at least it’s a problem to that you have separate coaches for corners and safeties - corners and safeties working together is so important). 

 

They should be fired into the sun. 

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Assuming Forbes is benched against Atlanta that would mean that the only contribution from this years draft in that game will be some snaps on special teams for Quan Martin. 
 

This defensive staff was given two DBs with the first and second picks and both look lost.
 

We have both a defensive backs coach AND a safeties coach (to me at least it’s a problem to that you have separate coaches for corners and safeties - corners and safeties working together is so important). 

 

They should be fired into the sun. 

Really missing Harris back there.

[Renegade7]

39 minutes ago, Conn said:

We know all that. Anyone who sees value in a higher draft pick (for any reason, not just QB) is automatically implying that they want a stud GM and FO and coaching staff to go along with it. You’re arguing against nobody. 

 

All up in the kol-aid and don't know the flavor...

 

I made a response to tanking, which apparently is a ongoing debate because it keeps coming up nearly every year I've been here.

[Conn]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

All up in the kol-aid and don't know the flavor...

 

I made a response to tanking, which apparently is a ongoing debate because it keeps coming up nearly every year I've been here.

Yes, and your response focused around the idea that it doesn’t matter how high your picks are if you don’t have good evaluators/team-builders making the picks. Everyone here who wants as high a pick as possible for the next regime knows that and can only assume we’re going to hire qualified, competent people. It’s like the root of most of the hope for Harris. You can assume anyone who cares about the merits of “tanking” (or not) also cares about having a stud GM + scouting department doing the work and making the selections. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

Yes, and your response focused around the idea that it doesn’t matter how high your picks are if you don’t have good evaluators/team-builders making the picks. Everyone here who wants as high a pick as possible for the next regime knows that and can only assume we’re going to hire qualified, competent people. It’s like the root of most of the hope for Harris. You can assume anyone who cares about the merits of “tanking” (or not) also cares about having a stud GM + scouting department doing the work and making the selections. 

 

These are two different matters entirely.

 

Of course everyone wants a good front office, thus not a debate.

 

Not everyone wants to tank, thus a debate.

 

I'm not sure what your trying to correct, is it because I talked about both at the same time? 

[Koolblue13]

I dont want to tank, but its a lame duck year, so the higher the pick the better.

[Redwards]

7 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Tank for what? A qb?

 

Ya'll trippin...

 

Edit:  Seriously, lets rewind the tape here...

 

We had the #2 overall pick in the draft 95% of ES was 100% we had to take Young, including our HC.  Fast Forward to today and I'm not sure even half the board even wants him here any more, nor we pick up his last year option.

 

Rewind back to last draft, we pick Forbes then Gonzales goes the next pick.  Fast forward to today and rookie looks like a rookie playing the position of toothpick while Gonzales looks like a veteran already.

 

Ya'll see a pattern here?  It's not about getting high picks, a tank won't save us here.  We need a reloaded scouting department and front office where the HC isn't in charge of the GM, needs to be other way around, at minimum.

Yes.  AND...if you don't need a QB, a smart scouting dept. and GM can use all the high ammunition they can get.  A high draft pick not used on a QB gives those folks draft collateral to move around and get in position to select individuals that will make a real difference here or simply to stockpile future picks.

 

You can't get into the mentality that a high draft pick is of only good use if you need a QB.  With smart people in charge, that high draft capital can truly work wonders.  Just ask Eagles fans.  

Edited October 8, 2023 by Redwards

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

These are two different matters entirely.

 

Of course everyone wants a good front office, thus not a debate.

 

Not everyone wants to tank, thus a debate.

 

I'm not sure what your trying to correct, is it because I talked about both at the same time? 

Do I need to quote your own post back to you? Below is you (the post I originally responded to) arguing against tanking specifically because the high picks don’t matter without good scouts and a good GM. Which is why I said—duh, we all want a new GM and FO to use the picks. It’s not a valid response to posts from people who see the merits in a higher draft pick over a few final meaningless wins under a doomed regime. 
 

Did I somehow misunderstand you? Read your post again, they aren’t “two different matters entirely” as you said above, you argued against one with the other:

 

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Tank for what? A qb?

 

Ya'll trippin...

 

Edit:  Seriously, lets rewind the tape here...

 

We had the #2 overall pick in the draft 95% of ES was 100% we had to take Young, including our HC.  Fast Forward to today and I'm not sure even half the board even wants him here any more, nor we pick up his last year option.

 

Rewind back to last draft, we pick Forbes then Gonzales goes the next pick.  Fast forward to today and rookie looks like a rookie playing the position of toothpick while Gonzales looks like a veteran already.

 

Ya'll see a pattern here?  It's not about getting high picks, a tank won't save us here.  We need a reloaded scouting department and front office where the HC isn't in charge of the GM, needs to be other way around, at minimum.

 

[Renegade7]

@Conn

 

Dude, seriously, this isn't even the best thread for this.

 

I gave my opinion towards tanking, folks can do what they want with it, then did an edit and added to why it's more important to me to get a good front office then to tank.

 

I'm not re-reading anything that i wrote, you're overanalyizing and it's a Saturday night.

 

If you got something more to add I'm going to respond to it in a more appropriate thread, losing as much as possible to get Chase Young because a geauni pig coulda made that pick it was such a "no-brainer" shows its clearly more complicated then jus losing to get as high a pick as possible because a good front office might done the same thing, but okay:

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

To keep this conversation honest,, we've had previous administrations make stupid decisions before them.

 

The point stands, we need people that know what they're doing no matter where we pick.  Picking higher doesn't change that.

 

I understand that. But you said "we picked Forbes..." which is true. Just pointing out the people who made these decisions won't be making the decisions this spring.  We all understand you still need competent people making those picks but it's still true that having high picks in every round will most definitely change things.  

Edited October 8, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[KillBill26]

15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm guessing that our next GM comes from either the Lions, Seahawks or Eagles. Sip posted some of the hottest potential next GM candidates a while back. They all prioritize OL. Specifically center and tackles, so I'd think that's priority #1 for the next GM. If we pick high, we can easily grab a LT and RT in the first two rounds next draft. It's a great draft for it.

Bring Kyle Smith back?  He just was named asst GM in Atlanta.  They have done a good job acquiring a lot of young talent and have improved these past couple years.  The people who drove smith out of here will all be gone.  Unlikely, but I'd be ok with it.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

Bring Kyle Smith back?  He just was named asst GM in Atlanta.  They have done a good job acquiring a lot of young talent and have improved these past couple years.  The people who drove smith out of here will all be gone.  Unlikely, but I'd be ok with it.  

 

I was on record as stating that Kyle Smith had a better track record than the people who were chasing him out. I stand by that position, yet more talent we let out of the building.