All things defense

[ThomasRoane]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Which he? Looks like 3 lost LBers.

 

They don't look good.  Especially Bostic.  We don't know for sure what the calls are though.  I do know you can't expect a LB to play run first, then curl and flat.  The LB either has the curl or the flat.  So, we can't be sure on some of those.  It could be the DB who is screwing up.

 

For Holcomb getting beat on the rub concept I really wish the defense would switch that.  You're asking a lot for a LB to check the run, and then fight underneath a rub to defend a receiver who knows where he's going.  Should just switch that.  Let the db take the out route and let the LB run with the seam route.  Give them a fighting chance at least.

 

Regardless, Bostic has no business being on the field.  Give the guy a headset and make him a coach.  I believe he'll be a damn good one.  But his playing days are over.  

[method man]

The Falcons have a pair of potential trade targets at the LB position to keep an eye on.

Foye Oluokun is one their starting middle linebackers. He is a little light at 215/220 but had a very good season last year. He is currently in the final season of his rookie contract. If Atlanta keeps sucking and want to move on after his rookie deal is up, he is a guy we can potentially snag on the cheap to get a look at him before he hits FA. 

 

Why would the Falcons let a young emerging player like Oluokun go? It's because they also have Mykal Walker, who made the PFF All Rookie team last year. Walker backs up Oluokun and Deion Jones. The Falcons could conceivably let Oluokun go because they'd get to start Walker on a rookie deal for 2 more years. If the Falcons want to keep Oluokun, Walker is a guy I'd give up a high Day 3 pick up for or Settle + a 6th

[NoVaSkins21]

The terrible LB play (Bostic and Holcomb) combined with the lack of a pass rush from the DL basically equals the horrendous defense that exists right now

[skins island connection]

2 hours ago, method man said:

The Falcons have a pair of potential trade targets at the LB position to keep an eye on.

Foye Oluokun is one their starting middle linebackers. He is a little light at 215/220 but had a very good season last year. He is currently in the final season of his rookie contract. If Atlanta keeps sucking and want to move on after his rookie deal is up, he is a guy we can potentially snag on the cheap to get a look at him before he hits FA. 

 

Why would the Falcons let a young emerging player like Oluokun go? It's because they also have Mykal Walker, who made the PFF All Rookie team last year. Walker backs up Oluokun and Deion Jones. The Falcons could conceivably let Oluokun go because they'd get to start Walker on a rookie deal for 2 more years. If the Falcons want to keep Oluokun, Walker is a guy I'd give up a high Day 3 pick up for or Settle + a 6th

 

 There have been many players being traded/or signed by another team especially when they've played against each other in the season.  RR could see this guy fits his style of play and talk with Atl after the game. But honestly, most ALL Lbers WFT plays against will look better than what WFT puts on the field. 

[JSSkinz]

Grant and Danny had an ex Falcons TE on the show yesterday, he said the Falcons O line is bad and pointed out the LG was by far the worst but said the RT was "suspect" as well.  I expect results on Sunday and not just a sack but total domination by our DE's, anything less is a disappointment.

 

 

[method man]

2 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Grant and Danny had an ex Falcons TE on the show yesterday, he said the Falcons O line is bad and pointed out the LG was by far the worst but said the RT was "suspect" as well.  I expect results on Sunday and not just a sack but total domination by our DE's, anything less is a disappointment.

 

 

 

Yes Jaylen Mayfield is a struggling rookie at LG - he's a college LT who is tyring to make the shift. Payne and Allen should eat him alive. Kaleb McGeary is a bust of a first round pick at RT

[Burgold]

I was thinking about the defense and why we are so much worse. There are probably any number of reasons, but perhaps one of 'em is-- It wasn't broke so we fixed it.

 

Last year, we had a top five defense in the league (at least statistically) and down the stretch in the playoffs we actually looked like it. So, of course, we decided to upgrade. Last year, our top three corners were Fuller, Darby, and Mooreland. This year, Darby and Mooreland aren't even on the team. They've been replaced (hopefully eventually for the better) by Jackson and St. Jute. At safety, we had Kurl and Reaves. This year, Reaves is on the practice squad and Kurl is splitting time, but often taking a back seat to Collins. Linebacker, our weakest unit, may be the second most stable group with Bostic and Holecomb still getting the lionshare of playing time. Embarrassingly, I'm blanking on who was the third linebacker last year.

 

So, really... other than the D Line, this is a brand new defense. No wonder they haven't taken another step forward. With the exception of the D line, it's a first year D.

[SkinsGuy]

27 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, really... other than the D Line, this is a brand new defense. No wonder they haven't taken another step forward. With the exception of the D line, it's a first year D.

 

 

Not to mention it's a very young defense. Chase Young just turned 22 in April. That's practically college senior age.

 

So it shouldn't be a surprise there is some greeness and immaturity in both new and young players.

 

It's why I wasn't hugely upset at our performance last week. The Bills are a legit Super Bowl contender. Most likely the best team in the AFC, now that the Chiefs are currently faltering. 

 

The Falcons, OTOH, are not playing good. WFT's defense should have a better showing.

 

If they are as bad against the Falcons as they were against the Bills, then that will be a problem.

Edited October 3, 2021 by SkinsGuy

[KDawg]

39 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I was thinking about the defense and why we are so much worse. There are probably any number of reasons, but perhaps one of 'em is-- It wasn't broke so we fixed it.

 

Last year, we had a top five defense in the league (at least statistically) and down the stretch in the playoffs we actually looked like it. So, of course, we decided to upgrade. Last year, our top three corners were Fuller, Darby, and Mooreland. This year, Darby and Mooreland aren't even on the team. They've been replaced (hopefully eventually for the better) by Jackson and St. Jute. At safety, we had Kurl and Reaves. This year, Reaves is on the practice squad and Kurl is splitting time, but often taking a back seat to Collins. Linebacker, our weakest unit, may be the second most stable group with Bostic and Holecomb still getting the lionshare of playing time. Embarrassingly, I'm blanking on who was the third linebacker last year.

 

So, really... other than the D Line, this is a brand new defense. No wonder they haven't taken another step forward. With the exception of the D line, it's a first year D.

 

13 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

Not to mention it's a very young defense. Chase Young just turned 22 in April. That's practically college senior age.

 

So it shouldn't be a surprise there is some greeness and immaturity in both new and young players.

 

It's why I wasn't hugely upset at our performance last week. The Bills are a legit Super Bowl contender. Most likely the best team in the AFC, now that the Chiefs are currently faltering. 

 

The Falcons, OTOH, are not playing good. WFT's defense should have a better showing.

 

If they are as bad against the Falcons as they were against the Bills, then that will be a problem.

The linebackers are exactly the same as last year until Davis gets in. 
 

I think our worst cut was Moreland. Could keep Fuller outside, St Juste as depth while he develops and Moreland in the slot and that unit is likely better.

[Koolblue13]

Wish the panthers Dallas game was at 4, because that defense is fun to watch and I bet they really shut Dallas down today.

[ksun247]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I was thinking about the defense and why we are so much worse. There are probably any number of reasons, but perhaps one of 'em is-- It wasn't broke so we fixed it.

 

Last year, we had a top five defense in the league (at least statistically) and down the stretch in the playoffs we actually looked like it. So, of course, we decided to upgrade. Last year, our top three corners were Fuller, Darby, and Mooreland. This year, Darby and Mooreland aren't even on the team. They've been replaced (hopefully eventually for the better) by Jackson and St. Jute. At safety, we had Kurl and Reaves. This year, Reaves is on the practice squad and Kurl is splitting time, but often taking a back seat to Collins. Linebacker, our weakest unit, may be the second most stable group with Bostic and Holecomb still getting the lionshare of playing time. Embarrassingly, I'm blanking on who was the third linebacker last year.

 

So, really... other than the D Line, this is a brand new defense. No wonder they haven't taken another step forward. With the exception of the D line, it's a first year D.

 

 

Kevin Pierre-Louis (KPL)

[veteranskinsfan]

Just like the Skins the Eagles have poor linebacker play.  Teams know if they can get past our front linemen then they can pick off our linebackers.  Our backers are equally weak in pass coverage as well.

[skinny21]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The linebackers are exactly the same as last year until Davis gets in. 
 

I think our worst cut was Moreland. Could keep Fuller outside, St Juste as depth while he develops and Moreland in the slot and that unit is likely better.

Yep.  I’ve said it before, but I think Del Rio wanting to incorporate man coverage has really hurt the secondary.  Puts WJIII and St Juste at a disadvantage when we’re playing zone instead, Fuller at a disadvantage when in man.  This has also seemingly lead to communication errors and likely forces some vanilla into the scheme, instead of building off the zone D from last year.  Has probably slowed the growth of Curl (probably St Juste, and maybe Holcomb), made the transition harder for McCain and WJIII and probably exacerbated our weakest links in coverage - Collins and Bostic (Holcomb gets an ‘honorable’ mention here).

 

@Burgold To your point - if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.  Of course, we needed to improve the D.  They had trouble against better teams/qbs, and weren’t great against the run.  So I get wanting to make changes.  We needed to (greatly) improve our linebackers, try to improve at slot corner and FS, and figure out who to pair with Fuller on the outside (replacing or re-signing Darby).

 

IMO, we needed to replace the roof and repaint.  Instead, we tore it down to the studs, rushed the drywall/paint, and didn’t fix the leaky roof.

 

I don’t fault Del Rio much for how guys are playing poorly/disjointedly/missing assignments, but I think it’s fair to fault him for pushing for personnel changes relating to a switch to man… I think he’s gotten caught with his pants down.  He’s trying to adapt - blitzing, rushing 4, running zone, press man, etc… but none of it is really working because of 1) the personnel changes/fit, 2) the talent deficiencies - Bostic and Collins in coverage, and 3) perhaps asking too much of young/new guys trying to flip between coverages.

 

The D can certainly improve with experience (on the bright side), but will likely struggle all year (against decent teams).

[Est.1974]

We’re in for a tough season if we can’t sort ourselves out on 3rd down.

[86 Snyder]

[skins island connection]

Right now the WFT defense is trying to corner the market on wide open WRs.

Another one today, nobody within 15 yds of the guy.

It could be communication, but that still falls on DelTaco Harris and Russ. This is part of their job; to teach these boneheads how to cover, how to recognize situations, how to place themselves on-field, how to peek back at the QB, what to look for, etc etc etc.  Thus far there have been at least 2 wiiiiiide open WRs with no defensive player in sight, not even in the same damn zip code.  There's no excuse for that. Once is a problem. 

[method man]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:45 AM, Burgold said:

I can see that argument, but the defenses job is to produce some three and outs themselves. They have to generate stops. Now, the refs helped with some awful calls, but any defense that allows a 90% third down conversion rate is awful.

It's hard to tell, but it feels like a ton of our pass difficulties boil down to Bostic and Collins. They either can't get to their spot or are freelancing and getting caught a lot.

It’s no shock that the D started to play better in the end once Bostic sat. Need to play Jamin at this point and I want to see more Hudson.

 

At safety, please give Collins’s snaps to Shaze

[ThomasRoane]

Fuller was better today.  Collins and Bostic probably regressed.  They're obviously marked men for every OC and QB.  Gotta get them off the field.  It was good to see McTyer get some time.  Good coverage.  Just needs to get his head around sooner.  WJ III worries me.  He's involved in a lot of those plays were receivers are running wide open.  May not be your job to carry a route to the middle but if you see your team is about to get beat help out!  Ioannaidas makes the D line go.  The King of Sparta is vastly underrated.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

Fuller was better today.  Collins and Bostic probably regressed.  They're obviously marked men for every OC and QB.  Gotta get them off the field.  It was good to see McTyer get some time.  Good coverage.  Just needs to get his head around sooner.  WJ III worries me.  He's involved in a lot of those plays were receivers are running wide open.  May not be your job to carry a route to the middle but if you see your team is about to get beat help out!  Ioannaidas makes the D line go.  The King of Sparta is vastly underrated.  

 

Collins didn't regress, he was this bad last season.  We've forgotten that the defense got better after Collins got hurt and Curl came in.

[DiscoBob]

This defense is offensive

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

Fuller was better today.  Collins and Bostic probably regressed.  They're obviously marked men for every OC and QB.  Gotta get them off the field.  It was good to see McTyer get some time.  Good coverage.  Just needs to get his head around sooner.  WJ III worries me.  He's involved in a lot of those plays were receivers are running wide open.  May not be your job to carry a route to the middle but if you see your team is about to get beat help out!  Ioannaidas makes the D line go.  The King of Sparta is vastly underrated.  

McCain was the worst, in my opinion. That deep touchdown looked to be squarely on him. 

 

Collins wasn't great but let's talk about Del Rio having him cover a guy from across the field in a red zone situation. Absolutely insane. Collins got there but had too much momentum to break down (not that he would have anyways). It was an extremely difficult assignment that made very little sense to give. 

 

That's not to say Collins was good. He wasn't. But c'mon.

[Morneblade]

Honestly, if this defense starts to get better, there is a little hope. But man, if you give up 30 points to the Falcons, the same team that put up 17 to the Giants the week before, and 6 to the Eagles? I really don't see any hope. Sure, TH is gonna go down swinging, but we're just not good enough offensively to win shoot outs every week.

 

Only guys I see playing well are Payne and Allen. The rest seems to be a dumpster fire.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Honestly, if this defense starts to get better, there is a little hope. But man, if you give up 30 points to the Falcons, the same team that put up 17 to the Giants the week before, and 6 to the Eagles? I really don't see any hope. Sure, TH is gonna go down swinging, but we're just not good enough offensively to win shoot outs every week.

 

Only guys I see playing well are Payne and Allen. The rest seems to be a dumpster fire.

I actually thought Holcolmb was decent today. Not great, but made some plays. Same with Curl. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, method man said:

It’s no shock that the D started to play better in the end once Bostic sat. Need to play Jamin at this point and I want to see more Hudson.

 

At safety, please give Collins’s snaps to Shaze

Jeremy Reeves is better than Collins....not even close. Collins is extremely limited and he's hard to watch. We have major issues and it's time RR demanded some change. This is all on him.