Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[JSSkinz]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

We got blown out. Theres enough blame to go around. The defense can be bad AND the offense can be bad. We just proved that.

 

Christ, Hopkins was our best player sunday. Yall need to unclench them cheeks. 

Just my opinion but whether Taylor Heinicke is good or not has no effect on the future of this franchise and bashing him feels like a waste of time. Besides that, he's one of a very few players on this team that's made plays this year.

 

Now, on the other side of the ball if we don't get a return and a I mean huuuuuggggeeeee return out of those four 1st rd. draft picks and most importantly the #2 we spent on Chase, then this franchise is setback years and I'm not sure if it can come back from that.

 

So this is why I place on all frustration towards the D, if this is my business I know where I spent my money and I also know I can find another Taylor Heinicke, but I cant get those four 1st rd. draft picks back, the #2 on Chase being the most hurtful of the 4 picks.

 

 

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

didn't Al Saunders have like a 700 page playbook?

Todd Collins ran it to perfection. If we had drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of making the trade to lock in Jason Campbell with Denver’s pick a day before the draft which was the dumbest move in modern day nfl history (You don’t make a trade a day before anyone is on the clock unless it’s for pick 1 then leak which player you are picking and when no one jumps you to steal the player it means your pick sucks) Saunders with Aaron Rodgers and Gregg Williams’ D would have added at least 2 rings to Joe Gibbs hands. Too bad we didn’t bring back Bobby Beathard with Gibbs instead of keeping Vinny. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by SoCalSkins

[zCommander]

37 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Wait… a… are you being serious?

 

At least I keep a balanced view and look at the whole picture and not just dump on one player. Well except for Chase. He was picked 2nd and is playing worse than TH. Let that sink in. At least TH is still the bright spot on offense 

[Stefanskins]

Taylor is going to be fine…it was just his second or third start (on the road in windy conditions)…the offense needs to cater to his ability…and the defense needs to drop bostic, pull Collins in the box ( to attack, occupy or cover the rb/te) and put curl as safety…we need to bump the receivers at the line and throw of all these timing routes…blitz a little more…dL stay in their lanes…etc etc

[PartyPosse]

29 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

At least I keep a balanced view and look at the whole picture and not just dump on one player. Well except for Chase. He was picked 2nd and is playing worse than TH. Let that sink in. At least TH is still the bright spot on offense 

I’m fairly unbiased. Everyone sucked. I don’t care who is highly touted or who is just a fish out of water, neither the offense nor the defense did their job. At this point who gives a crap where someone was drafted? Right now the guys on the field, regardless of their path, either need to be part of the solution or they’re part of the problem. Guy throws a ****ty INT, that’s on him. Defense can’t hold from that INT, that’s on them. 

[mistertim]

49 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

At least I keep a balanced view and look at the whole picture and not just dump on one player. Well except for Chase. He was picked 2nd and is playing worse than TH. Let that sink in. At least TH is still the bright spot on offense 

 

I think a balanced view is that this team sucked on Sunday. Defense sucked and offense sucked. Our DL got very little pressure, our LBs still suck in coverage, our receivers dropped balls, and Heinicke looked like a mediocre UDFA QB against a good defense. 

 

4 hours ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I'm not worried about TH. He had a less than sterling outing, but he still threw for two TDs (with a little help from Gibson on one of them) and ran for another. I think he will be back to his normal outstanding self against Atlanta.

 

So Heinicke will be fine as long as he gets to play ****ty defenses?

 

(And that was not a little help from Gibson. That was all Gibson)

Edited September 29, 2021 by mistertim

[CTskin]

I’m a heinecke guy. He is not a qb who will win a 40+ point shootout. That doesn’t mean he isn’t good or doesn’t have potential to be a legitimate starting qb, but the kid had no chance in this one.
 

you beat the bills by stopping their offense, a la Steelers week 1. Hell, if our d only gave up 13 points we would have won.

 

the d has been heavily invested in and is the problem. If our offense was studded with high draft picks, big $ FAs, and heinecke was making a boatload then they’d be the disappointment. 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Just my opinion but whether Taylor Heinicke is good or not has no effect on the future of this franchise and bashing him feels like a waste of time. Besides that, he's one of a very few players on this team that's made plays this year.

 

Now, on the other side of the ball if we don't get a return and a I mean huuuuuggggeeeee return out of those four 1st rd. draft picks and most importantly the #2 we spent on Chase, then this franchise is setback years and I'm not sure if it can come back from that.

 

So this is why I place on all frustration towards the D, if this is my business I know where I spent my money and I also know I can find another Taylor Heinicke, but I cant get those four 1st rd. draft picks back, the #2 on Chase being the most hurtful of the 4 picks.

 

 

 

 

That's fine and theres several threads about the defense where were talking about it, but our offense is having issues too and this is the only active offensive thread.

[CTskin]

@Koolblue13 true. My rant from the D thread carried over a bit to this one.

 

I wouldn’t really say our offense is having problems, how good were they expected to be? I guess that’s why I’m not down on them like I am the D. We have a few new faces on the OL, we have one proven wr, our qb situation was never special even with fitz, and our OC hasn’t shown us anything to date.

 

As far as I’m concerned the offense is delivering what I expected, not what I was hoping and dreaming of. Fine by me. There were a lot of people predicting some crazy things on the pregame and record prediction thread. Those will find disappointment.

 

heinecke if nothing else is a gritty qb who doesn’t fold in clutch time, he really seems like he loves it. Unfortunately the D is struggling to give him that opportunity.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, zskins said:

 

At least I keep a balanced view and look at the whole picture and not just dump on one player. Well except for Chase. He was picked 2nd and is playing worse than TH. Let that sink in. At least TH is still the bright spot on offense 

 

No one is blaming everything on Taylor, you're fighting ghosts, man.  But this is his thread, so if there's gonna be criticism of him anywhere, it's not surprising to find it here.

 

These are discussions that have to be had and dissected as he plays the single most important position in football, and he's not the only QB on the roster. Him not playing well and the defense not playing can happen simultaneously, we jus saw that against the bills.

 

He has to, and can, play better against Atlanta.  I'm willing to lay down my criticisms of him until he gets another chance to rectify them (gd its only tuesday)

[NoCalMike]

This is beginning to feel like the Cousins debate all over again, only TH has shown way less so far to even get that heated over it, on either side of debate.   Cousins was good at times, average other times, and made a bunch of boneheaded plays toward the ends of games more often than not.  Giving Cousins a long term contract (assumed he would have agreed to resign in the first place) would have been settling and hoping the team around him was built into a juggernaut.  TH has not even got to that level yet.

 

At the end of the day Fitzpatrick is out for at least 8-10 weeks and we know Kyle Allen is nothing close to being a franchise QB, so TH is going to get his chance to show what he's got against some pretty good team.  His time is now and it is up to him to show his time in the future as well. 

[srtman04]

With all things considered, Taylor didn't play horrible in the Buffalo game.  In fact, he scored 21 points and if our defense was functional, we would have kept them under that,  but here we are.  Every QB in this league has bad games,  no matter how good they are.  Aaron Rogers week 1 of this year is proof of this and he has been in the league over a decade.  People here have such unrealistic expectations on QB's.  

Also,  I've seen alot worse QB play here than anything Taylor did against Buffalo.  John (sack king) Beck anyone?  

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's fine and theres several threads about the defense where were talking about it, but our offense is having issues too and this is the only active offensive thread.

There are several open threads that are quite offensive… At least the level of play they describe is very offensive to me. 😂 

[skinny21]

It certainly wasn’t a good game from Heinicke, but I don’t think it was an awful game either, particularly when factoring context.  
 

Sucks for Heinicke that as he is being taught/encouraged to ‘take what the D gives you’, and ‘live to fight another day’… the defense is showing they can’t live up to their end of that bargain.  

 

 

[Est.1974]

Heinicke is way over hyped, ironically leading to unfair criticism when he has an average outing.

 

Lower expectations, he’s an excellent back-up but average to maybe better than average starter in the league. That’s how he will play over a decent run of games in my opinion.

 

No need to over hype him, no need to trash him either. Stay medium folks and accept it for what it is.

[Stefanskins]

8 hours ago, CTskin said:

how good were they expected to be?

depends...we, or at least I, haven't even seen Samuels in a Football Team Uniform...not one training camp snap...but watching his highlights and chemistry with Teddy Bridgewarter (Tedd and Heinicke are better QBs off schedule...that's usually when they make more than half their big plays...still, all good!!), along with Samuel's obvious familiarity with Turner's offense (the Turner's, since Troy Aikeman, always stick to their "scheme"...they seem to never adapt...but, in their defense of their offense, when they have the horses...in their right positions Super Bowls follow...i.e. strategy is sound but so precise(ish)?) you have to have such a high/elite two of the the three positions or their offense is just average...it's like catching lightenin' in a bottle...or three HoF in three drafts...which scares me...but I digress...)...Jesus where was I??...

 

Oh yeah! I believe/hope that maybe, just maybe, Curtis is the missing piece in the Turner Pie...I can definitely envision a Heinicke, Curtis, Gibson, Logan Thomas attack, along with just an average defense, giving us an exciting season...with a legit top 10 D...Back to Back NFCE Championships...for the first time since 1982, 83',84'...

 

To make a drunken rant short...get Curtis...beat the Falcons...JDR coach'em up like you always do...an we are still a team that no one will want to play in the paloffs...HTTR!!!

 

[CTskin]

@Stefanskins haha good stuff hombre. For a drunken ramble that was pretty damn impressive.

 

There’s no argument against the fact that a healthy Samuel would be a positive for this offense. But I disagree with the impact he would have. It’s a bigger problem than 1 player.

 

I still put this cluster of an offense on Turner. The most obvious red flag is the 1st quarter/half woes. An OC studies the opponents defense and develops a script for the first few drives… a good OC will consistently walk away with points early. 
 

We on the other hand really enjoy going down 7-0 after the first two drives. 

[zCommander]

Here is play of Taylor if he stays behind Flowers than that was an easy first down and more instead of Taylor going Left and then going down on his own and being called short of the markers. Also looks like Flowers even motions him to follow him. Not sure if Taylor saw that. Taylor still have lots of learning to do.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

No one is blaming everything on Taylor, you're fighting ghosts, man.

This has been going on for weeks with several posters.

 

I've asked for examples on numerous occasions of this so-called hating or even anyone blaming the loss(es) on Heineke.  *Crickets*  Because it doesn't exist.  

 

Just because we don't have a ton of resources wrapped up in Heineke doesn't mean we can't assess his play and how it translates moving forward.  I don't think anyone dislikes him or his story.  It's nothing personal.

[ThePackisback]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This has been going on for weeks with several posters.

 

I've asked for examples on numerous occasions of this so-called hating or even anyone blaming the loss(es) on Heineke.  *Crickets*  Because it doesn't exist.  

 

Just because we don't have a ton of resources wrapped up in Heineke doesn't mean we can't assess his play and how it translates moving forward.  I don't think anyone dislikes him or his story.  It's nothing personal.

Hey Bud how you been?

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, CTskin said:

 

I still put this cluster of an offense on Turner. The most obvious red flag is the 1st quarter/half woes. An OC studies the opponents defense and develops a script for the first few drives… a good OC will consistently walk away with points early. 
 

 

I sincerely hope that Scott is not just like his dad.  As an X's and O's geek, I really get into the strategies and tactics that teams employ against one another.

 

Norv was an excellent strategist.  He could design a great gameplan.  However, after halftime he failed to adjust to what new tactics were introduced by the defense.  He'd have that clueless look on his face and just blindly stick to his script.

 

Gibbs however was a good strategist but a brilliant tactician!  He was the Belichick of the 80s and early 90s.  Even Gibbs 2.0 was great at adjustments.  Take the Monday night miracle.  Santana ****ed about not running the Dino route (post corner post) and Gibbs called it and they scored on it.  Gibbs came back with a tweak to have Cooley distract the safety so Santana could get behind him and that was it.  Best game ever cause my annoying, cowboy fan brother-in-law had been calling before yelling "how bout dem cowboys!"  Of course, after that second TD?  Blissful silence  

 

The jury is still out on Scott.  Is he a strategist?  A tactician? Or both?  Hopefully both but to me he needs to demonstrate a better feel for what it is that his players can do best.  TH threw a bad pick in that NYG game.  But The Gibson was feeling it!  Runs for 11 yards and a first.  Runs hard for 3.  It's second and 7.  Give the kid a chance to go win the game!  The Oline was firing off and the giants defense was feeling a little down.  Sure, TH should have thrown the ball to the flat.  But why throw at all there?  

 

Now, fast forward to the Bills game. 

 

First drive, McKissic rushes for 8.  Nice surprise cause Bills are prob thinking pass.  You have 2nd and 2.  Why not bring in The Gibson and see if you can muscle your way for the first down.  Move the chains.  Get a new set of downs and slow down the Bills pass rush.  Instead, we have a pass for 0 yards.  Third and 2 successful but McKissic has a brain cramp and instead of just running thru he forces contact on a rub concept.  Good concept on 3rd and 12.  They got 11 with Thomas.  Would like to see him use his size and eliminate any doubt (we lost out on the replay review).  Punt.

 

Second Drive.  We're down 14 after the Bills just put together another 8 play drive and made our Defense look silly.  Clearly, they are reeling and need some time to get their crap together.  In my mind, Scott needs to look past his script and read the room.  Buffalo's defense knows their offense can't be stopped and are beginning to smell blood.  They know they can just get upfield now and go for the kill.  Nothing calms a situation down for an inexperienced offense like a good running game.  But first and 10 they take a shot to Brown?  Not sure where TH was in the progression but if I'm going to try to take a shot it will be to #17.  Better yet.  Run the ball here!  You don't want to end up with another 3rd and long.  Second down run to Gibson.  Predictable if you ask me.  Buffalo knows the offense missed their shot so now they're going to play it safe.  Third and 8.  Good on Turner to exploit the middle again.  Logan Thomas makes a good catch and fumbles.  Not a good result but good plan.  Still, they're essentially 3 and out.  Defense back on the field again and gives up another long drive (long in that it was 8 plays) for a TD.

 

Third drive.  First down Turner targets #17.  Never really a bad choice.  I'm totally fine with that.  He's your best weapon and moves the chains.  First down hand to The Gibson.  He gets you 4 yards.  It's second and six now around your 35.  Again, read the room!  Your defense is on life support!  Turner calls a pass.  No one is open early (a bench route comes open to the right later on but TH has already moved on).  He comes back late to McLaurin and throws the pick.  Shoulda ate it or thrown it away.  Lesson learned.  Better yet?  How bout a run play here?  Or something safer.  Let's try to get us to a 3rd and 3 ok?  Move the chains.  Eat some clock and give your Defense a chance to recompose itself  Essentially, it's another 3 and out.

 

I hope Turner develops more into a Gibbs like play caller than his Dad.  We'll see how this plays out.  Again, I feel like Scott wants to show off some of his best passing concepts.  They are good.  But this team (not just the offense) is not a team that can survive a shootout week after week.  RR knows that.  I believe his comments about TH are also for Scott Turner's benefit as well.  

 

Sorry for the book!

Edited September 29, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[Silvernon]

18 hours ago, zskins said:

 

The Bills had the ball first and marched down and scored the TD. You were saying. 

In the Bills game it was the ****ing D who doesn't get a pass. Taylor was not as bad as you making it out to be. 

 

Disclaimer: not strictly correct because drives happen between quarters.  

 

Q1: 6 plays, 36 yds. 2 possessions: Punt and fumble. TOP 3:37

 

Q2: 17 plays, 135 yds. 5 possessions: Interception, Touchdown, Touchdown, Punt, Punt. TOP 7:34

 

Q3: 10 plays, 26 yds. 3 possessions: Punt, Interception, Punt. TOP 5:02

 

Q4: 17 plays, 90 yds. 2 possessions. Turnover on downs, Touchdown. TOP 8:10

 

Even in their best quarter, it wasn't until the 2nd touchdown drive that the defense got a breather. They weren't good anyway - outside of a dominant Payne - but the offense needs to control the tempo and time of a game.

 

They had all the cardinal sins on offense going: short possessions, turnovers, and bad decision making at QB. 

 

17 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

We got blown out. Theres enough blame to go around. The defense can be bad AND the offense can be bad. We just proved that.

 

Christ, Hopkins was our best player sunday. Yall need to unclench them cheeks. 

 

Por que no Tress Way?

 

16 hours ago, zskins said:

 

And if the D has stopped them then that would be 3 points and not 6. My point still stands. The D done ****ed up the whole game. 

 

 

 

Hmm... that's an interesting take. 

[ThomasRoane]

Watching some of the All 22 it's obvious that TH does not trust Dyami Brown yet.  Not that I blame him.  Really makes me curious how things would look with a healthy Samuels.  That would give TH more trustworthy (to him) options.  This is the order that TH has to work with now IMO.

 

1) McLaurin (duh!)

2) Thomas

3) Humphries

4) McKissic

5) Everyone else 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Heinicke is way over hyped, ironically leading to unfair criticism when he has an average outing.

 

Lower expectations, he’s an excellent back-up but average to maybe better than average starter in the league. That’s how he will play over a decent run of games in my opinion.

 

No need to over hype him, no need to trash him either. Stay medium folks and accept it for what it is.

 

I don't know if he's over hyped or under hyped but agree I am definitely in the stay medium mode with Heinicke.  

 

As we all know, we've had plenty of short samples of QBs that have given us hope during Dan's miserable reign.  But none of the short samples translated over time where they proven to be the answer.  

 

I wonder what the Heinicke hive thinks of Matt Corral if they've seen him play.  I am not totally sold on him because I question his decision making, I want to see how he deals with Alabama's defense coming up before I am sold.  But Corral reminds me of Heinicke to some extent but without the physical arm strength or size limitations that Heinicke has.   Corral isn't big but he's bigger than Heinicke. He can run, make off platform throws, plays with moxie, etc. 

 

 

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

Watching some of the All 22 it's obvious that TH does not trust Dyami Brown yet.  Not that I blame him.  Really makes me curious how things would look with a healthy Samuels.  That would give TH more trustworthy (to him) options.  This is the order that TH has to work with now IMO.

 

1) McLaurin (duh!)

2) Thomas

3) Humphries

4) McKissic

5) Everyone else 

 

All 22 up on Game Pass?  I looked for it last night and still couldn't find it so maybe I am doing something wrong.  I know they changed their formatting which is throwing me off. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[ThomasRoane]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

All 22 up on Game Pass?  I looked for it last night and still couldn't find it so maybe I am doing something wrong.  I know they changed their formatting which is throwing me off. 

 

Poached it from this guys Youtube channel:  

 

I don't agree with everything he says.  It's easy to critique a QB when you're watching in slow motion.  Especially when we don't know the order of progression.  What the coaching points were.  And we're not dealing with a defensive line in our faces.  

Edited September 29, 2021 by ThomasRoane