Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[skinsfan93]

Heinicke is who he is. He is not a first round qb with tremendous athletic ability. After the Giants game, lots of people wanted to anoint him our franchise qb. While I remained hopeful before Buffalo it’s not surprising the offense struggled along with Taylor. 
 

Whether you like it or not our season is dependent on him and how he performs. I do think he can be serviceable and we can win some games and be competitive in most of them. However our defense needs to do their part for that to happen. 
 

Lets see how he does against Atlanta before completely giving up on him. If he struggles by throwing a few picks it MAY be time to look at Kyle Allen. 

[NoCalMike]

6 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Turner wants to attack every part of the field but that's not the personnel he has.  He has the personnel for power and play action.  Three good blocking TEs who can catch.  He should be in 12 personnel for the majority of the game. 

 

Sort of reminds me of Joe Gibbs 2.0 era in 2004/2005 where Gibbs designed the offense around the personnel on offense but Dan Snyder didn't think it was "exciting enough" and brought in Al Saunders to run an offense that didn't match the personnel on the field in 2006.

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

We're not allowed to acknowledge the offense fumbling and throwing picks on the way down a 21-0 hole. Defense has to fix everything and hold all the weight, before we can talk about the offense.

 

Or so it seems.

Preach!

 

Taylor Heinicke had his worst day as a pro. We don't need to let him off the hook just to be nice. 

 

 

[zCommander]

52 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Thats the cope out, the defense is so bad that Taylor can't be expected to save us and completely reasonable to be forcing the ball because he's trying too hard.  We could lose the rest of our games and it will always be the defense fault, like there's never been a good QB with a bad defense before.

 

Oh please like the D no longer matters now. That is not like a cop out either. The ****ing defense holds the Bills to 20 then that is a win and you know it. Last year when our D held the opponents to 20 or less we won (except for 2 games). So please don't give me this bull**** about D doesn't' matter and TH has to do everything. It was the offense and the special teams that made any difference in the Bills game since the D wasn't doing **** expect for turding on the field instead. 

6 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

Preach!

 

Taylor Heinicke had his worst day as a pro. We don't need to let him off the hook just to be nice. 

 

 

 

Sure let's praise our stout D instead. Since our D was so stellar that our O **** the bed instead. 🙄

[Renegade7]

Just now, zskins said:

 

Oh please like the D no longer matters now. That is not like a cop out either. The ****ing defense holds the Bills to 20 then that is a win and you know it. Last year when our D held the opponents to 20 or less we won (except for 2 games). So please don't give me this bull**** about D doesn't' matter and TH has to do everything. It was the offense and the special teams that made any difference in the Bills game since the D wasn't doing **** expect for turding on the field instead. 

 

This is nonsense, I never said the defense no longer matters, find the quote.

 

This is a team game and all three phases have to do the part, plus sometimes bail out the others.  Defense did it all the time last year, it looks like it's the offense turn this year.

 

The giants game is an example of this, Taylor bailed us out from a failed defense.  Hes done it once, can he do it again against another weak opponent?  I cannot get over him only scoring 16 points against the chargers, that will be unacceptable against Atlanta.

 

Straight up, I dont believe he has the arm to be an NFL starter, there are some throws he jus can't make and teams are starting to figure that out on how to scheme for him (that's what bills did, forced him into throws he has trouble with).

 

I do not want us to invest time into developing him with these limitations.  Its a good story and thats it. And if we are continuing to lose, if he loses the Atlanta game, QB gets the blame fair or not, he will get eventually benched.  

 

I do not approve of blaming the defense for Taylor's play.  Young QBs get blasted all the time for trying to do too much to save a losing team versus jus doing their job, why should Taylor get an exception?

 

 

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is nonsense, I never said the defense no longer matters, find the quote.

 

This is a team game and all three phases have to do the part, plus sometimes bail out the others.  Defense did it all the time last year, it looks like it's the offense turn this year.

 

The giants game is an example of this, Taylor bailed us out from a failed defense.  Hes done it once, can he do it again against another weak opponent?  I cannot get over him only scoring 16 points against the chargers, that will be unacceptable against Atlanta.

 

Straight up, I dont believe he has the arm to be an NFL starter, there are some throws he jus can't make and teams are starting to figure that out on how to scheme for him (that's what bills did, forced him into throws he has trouble with).

 

I do not want us to invest time into developing him with these limitations.  Its a good story and thats it. And if we are continuing to lose, if he loses the Atlanta game, QB gets the blame fair or not, he will get eventually benched.  

 

I do not approve of blaming the defense for Taylor's play.  Young QBs get blasted all the time for trying to do too much to save a losing team versus jus doing their job, why should Taylor get an exception?

 

 

 

This part right here: We could lose the rest of our games and it will always be the defense fault,

Right now it is the D's fault. What the hell is TH is supposed to do? This was his 3rd game this year. Were you expecting miracles? I think he can still play but the D needs to put the ball in his hand more. What is wrong with that? Sure he is not your flashy shiny QB but he is serviceable for right now. Defense win games. Guess that is no longer true. Now it all has to be on the QB. 

[Silvernon]

17 minutes ago, zskins said:

Sure let's praise our stout D instead. Since our D was so stellar that our O **** the bed instead. 🙄

What defense looks good when the offense can't sustain drives?

 

Seriously guys, what happened? Why are we giving Taylor a free pass? It's not a bad thing that he was absolutely awful last game. Awful. 

[ThomasRoane]

52 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Sort of reminds me of Joe Gibbs 2.0 era in 2004/2005 where Gibbs designed the offense around the personnel on offense but Dan Snyder didn't think it was "exciting enough" and brought in Al Saunders to run an offense that didn't match the personnel on the field in 2006.

 

Very much so.  Snyder thought the offense was too simple.  Umm news flash!  Most good offenses are very simple!!!  They run the same basic plays and concepts over and over.  They're just creative in pre-snap and with formations but really it's the same scheme over and over.  

 

I used to coach AAU basketball for Boo Williams.  Ran his girls program for a while.  The Black Widows was my creation   We used to run a motion offense and as I learned from Duke and Coach K, it doesn't matter that the defense knows what you're going to do.  First, if your players know their assignments they're less likely to make mistakes.  Second, when the defense over plays (anticipating a tendency) your players can make them pay.  In basketball, maybe you backcut to the basket instead of popping out to the wing.  In football, maybe your route is to take you inside but you see the defense has inside leverage and you take it out instead.  Because your guys know the scheme so well and have practiced it so much they know how to exploit their opponents.

 

I think some coaches get too caught up in the X's and O's.  I've made that mistake before so I get it.  You have all these great ideas in your head.  Ways to punch and counterpunch your opponent.  It all looks great on paper if every O beats their X.  And it feels like such a waste not to call those really cool plays.  Coaches (again, I'm confessing I've made the mistake) forget that it's not about what you know.  As Coach K used to say it's all about what your players can execute.  Do what you do best.  Find a way to tweak it just a little according to your opponent's scheme and personnel.  But don't make your fast players slow by making them over think things.  (That could be our problem on Defense btw)

 

Scott needs to pound the ball.  You have a rookie RT and an average LT.  LG is not super dependable.  Feed the Gibson.  Stop trying to be cute with the jet sweeps.  Without a player like Samuels as a threat they're not effective.  Simplify and execute.  Limit your playbook and let your playmakers make you look good.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

What defense looks good when the offense can't sustain drives?

 

Seriously guys, what happened? Why are we giving Taylor a free pass? It's not a bad thing that he was absolutely awful last game. Awful. 

 

The Bills had the ball first and marched down and scored the TD. You were saying. 

In the Bills game it was the ****ing D who doesn't get a pass. Taylor was not as bad as you making it out to be. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

This part right here: We could lose the rest of our games and it will always be the defense fault,

Right now it is the D's fault. What the hell is TH is supposed to do? This was his 3rd game this year. Were you expecting miracles? I think he can still play but the D needs to put the ball in his hand more. What is wrong with that? Sure he is not your flashy shiny QB but he is serviceable for right now. Defense win games. Guess that is no longer true. Now it all has to be on the QB. 

 

Was it the defense fault when they held the Chargers to 20 points?  Its 2021, the QB gets the blame and praise more then they should, its the most important position in football.

 

Atlanta is a winnable game, let's cross the allowing 40 points again bridge when we get there, Taylor has proven he can score more then 30, to be the guy you do have to do that every once in a while.

 

He looked exposed against the Bills with some broken plays to make it look better then it really was.  This is why folks said they wanted him to play more games before making a decision on him, the tape is out now.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

think some coaches get too caught up in the X's and O's.  I've made that mistake before so I get it.  You have all these great ideas in your head.  Ways to punch and counterpunch your opponent.  It all looks great on paper if every O beats their X.  And it feels like such a waste not to call those really cool plays.  Coaches (again, I'm confessing I've made the mistake) forget that it's not about what you know.  As Coach K used to say it's all about what your players can execute.  Do what you do best.  Find a way to tweak it just a little according to your opponent's scheme and personnel.  But don't make your fast players slow by making them over think things.  (That could be our problem on Defense btw)

didn't Al Saunders have like a 700 page playbook?

[NickyJ]

29 minutes ago, zskins said:

Sure let's praise our stout D instead. Since our D was so stellar that our O **** the bed instead. 🙄

When did Silveranon praise the defense since this past Sunday? Link to the post.

Edited September 28, 2021 by NickyJ

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

Taylor was not as bad as you making it out to be. 

The problem with Taylor is he's never going to steal you a game. I know people are going to point at the TB game as proof of the opposite but QBs can thrive when teams aren't prepared for them as TB wasn't. If it wasn't for Gibson's miraculous play and Hopkins recovery there's a real chance we get shut out. 

[ThomasRoane]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

didn't Al Saunders have like a 700 page playbook?

 

And bragged about it!  SMH!  I don't blame Gibbs for "retiring" after that Seattle loss.  A game that was ours to be had.  Especially if Carlos Rogers didn't have stone hands.  

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The problem with Taylor is he's never going to steal you a game. I know people are going to point at the TB game as proof of the opposite but QBs can thrive when teams aren't prepared for them as TB wasn't. If it wasn't for Gibson's miraculous play and Hopkins recovery there's a real chance we get shut out. 

 

Kind of hard to steal a game when the other team hangs 43 points on you because your D is so bad that you can't even get on the field more to do that. Time of possession is also important to an offense. 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by zskins

[PartyPosse]

Just now, zskins said:

 

Kind of hard to steal a game when the other team hangs 43 points on you because your D is so bad and you are seeing less of the field to do that. 

Sure. It didn't help that his INTs led to 14 of those while Logan's fumble another 7. 

[ODU AGGIE]

I'm not worried about TH. He had a less than sterling outing, but he still threw for two TDs (with a little help from Gibson on one of them) and ran for another. I think he will be back to his normal outstanding self against Atlanta.

[ThomasRoane]

15 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Sure. It didn't help that his INTs led to 14 of those while Logan's fumble another 7. 

 

Ok, you're being disingenuous now.  So, if you're a super competitive QB who wants to win.  And you just witnessed Buffalo carve up your over rated defense for two TD Drives (#1 Eight plays for 75 yards/ #2 Eight plays for 52 yards) you're not going to feel a little pressure to produce?  Maybe take a few chances?  Or are you Alex Smith or John Beck and going to just keep throwing check-downs and punt on 4th and 2?  

 

TH needs to reign it in a bit but if he didn't have that kind of bravado there's no way the WFT beats the NYG last week and we're looking at 0 - 3.  I'd rather have a QB who has some fight and competitive spirit who will take a few chances than a QB who is gutless under pressure.  Deep down, I'll bet you would too.  Whether you like it or not, TH is the only QB on the roster that gives the WFT a chance to have any success this year.  Next year?  Who knows but they don't have that luxury.  They have 14 more games to play and they pretty much have to ride it out with #4.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[Koolblue13]

We got blown out. Theres enough blame to go around. The defense can be bad AND the offense can be bad. We just proved that.

 

Christ, Hopkins was our best player sunday. Yall need to unclench them cheeks. 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Sure. It didn't help that his INTs led to 14 of those while Logan's fumble another 7. 

 

Wait what? So every INT now equals 7 points and the same goes for fumbles? 

 INT is like a punt and depends on where you punted from. By the way that would be either 6 point or 3 points and not 7. 

[PartyPosse]

50 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Ok, you're being disingenuous now.  So, if you're a super competitive QB who wants to win.  And you just witnessed Buffalo carve up your over rated defense for two TD Drives (#1 Eight plays for 75 yards/ #2 Eight plays for 52 yards) you're not going to feel a little pressure to produce?  Maybe take a few chances?  Or are you Alex Smith or John Beck and going to just keep throwing check-downs and punt on 4th and 2?  

 

TH needs to reign it in a bit but if he didn't have that kind of bravado there's no way the WFT beats the NYG last week and we're looking at 0 - 3.  I'd rather have a QB who has some fight and competitive spirit who will take a few chances than a QB who is gutless under pressure.  Deep down, I'll bet you would too.  Whether you like it or not, TH is the only QB on the roster that gives the WFT a chance to have any success this year.  Next year?  Who knows but they don't have that luxury.  They have 14 more games to play and they pretty much have to ride it out with #4.  

Taylor's job is to take care of the football, regardless of what the defense does. His INTs were poor decisions and I don't care where the game is at the time. They're just bad choices and it had little to do with what the score was at the time. Was he put behind the 8-ball? Yes. You still don't make those throws.

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Wait what? So every INT now equals 7 points and the same goes for fumbles? 

 INT is like a punt and depends on where you punted from. By the way that would be either 6 point or 3 points and not 7. 

Both INT put the Bills deep in Washington territory and they promptly scored. A third was called back on a penalty that had nothing to do with the bad throw. 

[CapsSkins]

Taylor had a very poor game because he played outside his limitations in trying to be a hero. Now the putrid defense is why he felt he had to be a hero, but still, it was immaturity on display IMO.

 

Taylor at his best is somewhere between the reckless abandon scrambling vs Tampa and holding onto the ball for 5 seconds waiting for the top read to get open immaturity we saw vs Buffalo.

 

Up to him to find that balance but this is a normal part of the learning curve. Let's see how he responds against Atlanta.  

[zCommander]

18 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Both INT put the Bills deep in Washington territory and they promptly scored. A third was called back on a penalty that had nothing to do with the bad throw. 

 

And if the D has stopped them then that would be 3 points and not 6. My point still stands. The D done ****ed up the whole game. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by zskins

[Renegade7]

For the record, I hope Taylor has an awesome game against Atlanta. For his sake and for ours.  The meltdown from a loss to the falcons, especially if its bad...we deserve better.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Renegade7

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

And if the D has stopped them then that would be 3 points and not 6. My point still stands. The D done ****ed up the whole game. 

 

 

Wait… a… are you being serious?