Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[NickyJ]

54 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Allen has looked like poo on a football field just about every single time he has stepped on one.  TH outperforms in a really tough game against a tough D but doesnt go 4 TD 0 INTs and you are ready to throw in the towel?  Let me know when he has has his first actual bad game against a non top-D where hes not chasing 40+ points.  We can start there.

 

And people wonder why we have had a QB carrousel for the past couple of decades...

Allen actually looked mediocre to average when he was on the field. He won games with about the same excitement as Alex Smith. But in the end, he still won games, so I'll give him credit.

 

Heinicke is mediocre in the pocket. He's above average when he's outside the pocket. If we're going keep our QB caged in the pocket no matter what, I think Allen is moderately better than Heinicke. If Heinicke can actually move around the field, Heinicke is better and it isn't close.

 

Yesterday, we saw Heinicke restricted to the pocket. I think he can do better, but only if he isn't misused.

Edited September 27, 2021 by NickyJ

[ILikeBilly]

TH can't take all the credit, but in each of our last two games, he has lead a 2 play, 75 yard touchdown drive. 4 total plays.  150 total yards.  1 run for 2 yards.  1 pass for 73 yards ( thanks AG), one for 52 yards and one for 23 yards.  Robert was our last QB to lead these types of drives.  This was Taylor's worst game for us, but there were drops and stupid penalties.  Fix those issues and sprinkle in a bit of defense..... Okay, heap in a bunch of defense and Taylor will lead us plenty of wins.

 

Ps - did they even show a replay of Gibson 's catch and run?  I didn't see one.

Edited September 27, 2021 by ILikeBilly

[Silvernon]

That was a really poor game by Heinicke. 

 

Bad decisions throughout. 

[ThomasRoane]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm ready for Fitz to come back, think I've seen enough.

 

 

Be careful what you ask for.  You might get it.  

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Be careful what you ask for.  You might get it.  

 

He's only QB on roster with legit NFL arm and won the job in camp.  I'm tired of the feel good stories that end in Ls anyway, thats what Taylor is.  Unless we commit to developing him he's just another QB I've seen play here.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Silvernon said:

That was a really poor game by the DEFENSE.

 

Bad decisions throughout. 

 

There fixed it for you. 

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

There fixed it for you. 

Heinicke had an awful game. There is no fixing....thanks. 

[zCommander]

13 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

Heinicke had an awful game. There is no fixing....thanks. 

 

Which part of the game was awful? The two INTs? Oh, who's fault was it that he kept on playing from behind and trying to do too much to compensate from the D falling flat on their faces. Yeah let's not look at the whole game now and blame everything on TH. I swear some fans here... 

Edited September 28, 2021 by zskins

[OMacAttack]

4 hours ago, ILikeBilly said:

TH can't take all the credit, but in each of our last two games, he has lead a 2 play, 75 yard touchdown drive. 4 total plays.  150 total yards.  1 run for 2 yards.  1 pass for 73 yards ( thanks AG), one for 52 yards and one for 23 yards.  Robert was our last QB to lead these types of drives.  This was Taylor's worst game for us, but there were drops and stupid penalties.  Fix those issues and sprinkle in a bit of defense..... Okay, heap in a bunch of defense and Taylor will lead us plenty of wins.

 

Ps - did they even show a replay of Gibson 's catch and run?  I didn't see one.

I will say just for the flip side of this those short drives give the defense no rest.  But I will take quick scoring drives of course over the three and out circus 

[ILikeBilly]

1 hour ago, OMacAttack said:

I will say just for the flip side of this those short drives give the defense no rest.  But I will take quick scoring drives of course over the three and out circus 

The D is well rested at the start of the game.  We have allowed 3 long TD drives to start all 3 of our games this year.  We have had our share of 3 and outs, but many have been because of drops or penalties.  Terry had a 17 yarder called back and Simms drop one on (I think) consecutive drives early in the game.  TH was starting only his 4th NFL game.  He needs his teammates to step up, not screw up.

[Silvernon]

2 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Which part of the game was awful? The two INTs? Oh, who's fault was it that he kept on playing from behind and trying to do too much to compensate from the D falling flat on their faces. Yeah let's not look at the whole game now and blame everything on TH. I swear some fans here... 

I watched the game twice....I swear, some fans here...

[CjSuAvE22]

If you cant see that Henicke has physical limitations then i dunno what to tell ya....that being said his competitiveness and drive can win football games if the D could step up. But lets face it we are a one and done team in the playoffs (if we ever got there) you need a strong qb to win in the current state of the league, and Heinicke is just not that, my guess is defensive coordinators will adjust to him and we prob will start kyle allen at some point, some of his throws toward the sideline floated in slow motion....

Edited September 28, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[Renegade7]

Like I said, he has to beat Atlanta...

[NoCalMike]

When it comes to TH I really wish Scott Turner would look at him with reality goggles on and understand that the guy isn't auditioning for new franchise QB, he has a lot of fire and can make plays outside the pocket by extending them with his legs.   Start running that kind of offense behind TH and I bet it instantly improves things.  The way we are currently play calling it's as if they are trying to slowly teach TH traditional pocket passing, despite the fact that when you look around the NFL the athletic QBs are elevating their games by using their athleticism.  It doesn't mean it has to be read option and QB draws all game long, but move/shift the pocket.  Get TH into some space, let him put the defense on their heels with his legs and then rip a pass when their focus is blurred.  

[zCommander]

46 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

I watched the game twice....I swear, some fans here...

 

I don't have to watch the game twice to know what he can and can't do. Not comparing to any 1st picked QB because he isn't one. What he is doing so far is not that bad. One should wait and see what he is capable of and not what he is after only 3 games. Turner needs to use him properly and that is more important here. You can't get that by watching the game more than one. 

[Going Commando]

I love this young guy but he is super limited.  He has to play with perfect anticipation and timing every snap because he absolutely can never be late and he simply can't reliably hit tough zone windows that good NFL offenses with explosive QBs make hay on.  I was going through @MarkSchofield's tweets this morning where he breaks down three great throws from QBs around the league and it struck me that they are plays that Taylor absolutely can not make.  Kind of a good peek at the state of quarterbacking in the league and it's not a flattering comparison for Taylor--even Kirk Cousins's arm and playmaking ability absolutely smokes his.

 

He's not the answer.  You need an elite offense--and that includes coaches--to make it work with a physically limited but cerebral type QB, which we don't even remotely have.  We need a playmaker who can cope with bull**** coaching and below average surrounding talent.

[SkinsFTW]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Like I said, he has to beat Atlanta...

 

Remember Matt Ryan feasting on this D a couple years ago? I think they put up 35+ and won easily despite being a garbage team that year.

[WilberMarshall]

9 hours ago, Silvernon said:

Heinicke had an awful game. There is no fixing....thanks. 

Could easily be fixed.

He needs to be... gush, a bit more of a game manager. Use his backs more to get to those manageable 3rd downs. He really has to help his line by dumping off the ball early and choosing his moments. 

[ThomasRoane]

9 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

When it comes to TH I really wish Scott Turner would look at him with reality goggles on and understand that the guy isn't auditioning for new franchise QB, he has a lot of fire and can make plays outside the pocket by extending them with his legs.   Start running that kind of offense behind TH and I bet it instantly improves things.  The way we are currently play calling it's as if they are trying to slowly teach TH traditional pocket passing, despite the fact that when you look around the NFL the athletic QBs are elevating their games by using their athleticism.  It doesn't mean it has to be read option and QB draws all game long, but move/shift the pocket.  Get TH into some space, let him put the defense on their heels with his legs and then rip a pass when their focus is blurred.  

 

Turner wants to attack every part of the field but that's not the personnel he has.  He has the personnel for power and play action.  Three good blocking TEs who can catch.  He should be in 12 personnel for the majority of the game.  (One RB and two TEs)  In 12 personnel I'd have McLaurin and Brown on the field as wide outs.  Both scare teams with their speed.  (Even though Brown has a case of the dropsies he has potential)  TH would be really good in that kind of offense with the boot game.  It's too bad they're not a zone stretch type team.  I could see Kyle or Lefleur having a player like TH playing like a top 10 QB as a compliment to their running game.  

 

Nobody was better at figuring out what your guys were good at and adapting than JJG.  Too many coordinators today believe too much in their system.  I don't care how many guys you can get open.  Can the people you have to put on the field execute?  If not, find out what they can execute and do that over and over!  

 

Another reason for that style is to shorten the game and keep the defense off the field.  Gibson is special.  There's no reason the ball shouldn't be in his hands less than 20 touches a game.  Yeah, it's a boring style but until this defense gets right (if they get right) a shootout is the last thing this team needs. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[kingdaddy]

17 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Allen actually looked mediocre to average when he was on the field. He won games with about the same excitement as Alex Smith. But in the end, he still won games, so I'll give him credit.

 

Heinicke is mediocre in the pocket. He's above average when he's outside the pocket. If we're going keep our QB caged in the pocket no matter what, I think Allen is moderately better than Heinicke. If Heinicke can actually move around the field, Heinicke is better and it isn't close.

 

Yesterday, we saw Heinicke restricted to the pocket. I think he can do better, but only if he isn't misused.

Turner had better figure it out quickly what the strengths of our offense are and focus on them. He needs to create mismatches on the field and play to Taylor's strengths. RR was right when he said we need to get Cam Sims more involved, same with Thomas and Gibson. Use McKissic more in the slot and get mismatches like Buffalo did to us with Beasley. Look at the film and figure out where to attack Atlanta this week and put Taylor in good spots rather than just dropping him back and hoping he makes plays. That's a recipe for doom with a young QB....

 

[wit33]

Use him like Russel Wilson in his years 3-6 or whatever. This whole idea of keeping him in the pocket to preserve him is silly. I thought the team was finally making some leaps into modern football thinking. Not saying having a pocket QB who can move when needed is wrong, just that Taylor isn’t that guy. Coach to his strengths to put the most dangerous offense out there. 
 

He’s not a game manager!

Edited September 28, 2021 by wit33

[Cooleyfan1993]

8 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Remember Matt Ryan feasting on this D a couple years ago? I think they put up 35+ and won easily despite being a garbage team that year.

Yep. 2018. We were 5-2 and went to 5-3 with that loss, before beating tampa to get to 6-3. Then the Alex smith injury happened 

[JSSkinz]

Heinicke is what he is, the focus should be a 100% on the overrated D, if they don't give up 20 points in the first 20 minutes of the game we won't need Heinicke to perform miracles.

[Koolblue13]

15 hours ago, Silvernon said:

I watched the game twice....I swear, some fans here...

We're not allowed to acknowledge the offense fumbling and throwing picks on the way down a 21-0 hole. Defense has to fix everything and hold all the weight, before we can talk about the offense.

 

Or so it seems.

[Renegade7]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We're not allowed to acknowledge the offense fumbling and throwing picks on the way down a 21-0 hole. Defense has to fix everything and hold all the weight, before we can talk about the offense.

 

Or so it seems.

 

Thats the cope out, the defense is so bad that Taylor can't be expected to save us and completely reasonable to be forcing the ball because he's trying too hard.  We could lose the rest of our games and it will always be the defense fault, like there's never been a good QB with a bad defense before.

9 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Remember Matt Ryan feasting on this D a couple years ago? I think they put up 35+ and won easily despite being a garbage team that year.

 

That was a top 10 offense Atlanta had that year, it looks like bottom 10 this year. Not sure that's a fair comparison, Taylor should be able to keep up with them offensively, this isnt the bills we are playing this week.