Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Burgold]

I might be proven wrong, but I wouldn’t pay 2 first rounders, a third rounder, and a starting QB for an aging, oft injured, immobile QB that’s led his team to three losing seasons in a row and only is on contract for two years. 
 

To me, Stafford is fool’s gold. I’m glad we lost out on him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

 

At a minimum I think we can gather from this that the beat guys who kept saying they are big time in the QB business this off season and Rivera's own comments that alluded to such too had some merit to it.  They aren't going crazy for Stafford if they believe they can win big with Allen/Heinicke. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Looking at the numbers, I think the rams win this trade.

 

Goff has a dead cap hit of 22 mil.  He would have had a dead cap hit of 65 mil if he was a pre june 1st cut.  Post june 1st cut would've been a dead cap hit of 15 in 2021, and 50 in 2022.  Translation - ain't happening.

 

22 mil is a lot, and it's close to a wash in 2021 to get rid of goff, but now they have an extra 26 mil to spend on FA during the last 3 years of that contract.   And they also don't have to carry a qb they don't want, wasting a roster spot and a potentially toxic environment.

 

Those two firsts will be picks in the 20s.  Rams went 10-6 with goff and have their core coming back.  I don't see them regressing now that they've got a qb mcvay covets.

 

Yeah the deal isn't as stupid for the Rams as some say it was IMO.  

 

A.  In trade value a first next year is the equivalent of a 2nd now.  Pushing a pick one year down the road lowers the value of the pick versus keeping it the same.

 

B.  They dumped Goff

 

C.  Got a better QB, top 10 IMO, at a good cap number

 

And they pulled all of this off without having a first rounder this year competing with other teams who did.  JP Finlay loves quoting McVay's line about attacking success.  In other words, McVay likes to be aggressive.  It hasn't backfired on him yet.  The Rams are somewhat consistently relevant -- now they likely will be more relevant with a better QB. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

If Stafford is two 1s, a 3 and a premier position player (I’m not indicating Goff is great here, but he is a quarterback in the NFL)... I’m terrified at the Watson price.

 

My focus now shifts to Dak. I am hoping Dallas screws it up and doesn’t franchise him.

 

In the case they (Dallas) sign him I went them spending every penny of their cap space. 
 

If we lose out on the bigger name QBs I think the Carrs of the world come into play... but I’d also expect to hear news were trying to move up in the draft. 
 

I’m curious what it would cost to get to 4... 5... 6... in the draft.

 

If experts are right, which I’m not sold on, that gives a real strong chance of 2 of the Fields, Lance, Wilson triumvirate to be available if before 5... one of the triumvirate if after 5. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

Getting the Lions to suck up that hefty Goff salary was a work of genius.  

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My focus now shifts to Dak. I am hoping Dallas screws it up and doesn’t franchise him.

 

In the case they (Dallas) sign him I went them spending every penny of their cap space. 
 

 

I don't see how Dallas can franchise Dak at $37.7 mil this year with -2 mil current cap situation for 2021

[DWinzit]

If it is a win mentality and the draft is the way to go you must ask:

How the hell much is it going to cost to move up?

How many of the top QB's will be able to start right away or at least before the halfway point in the season? Some of them do not have long resume

 

And to SIPs point, they do not believe in the current QB's on the roster, any chance Allen's injury is worse than believed?

Smith must know his days are numbered. I am afraid they turn to Ryan.

 

This is not a good year to need a starting QB

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If Stafford is two 1s, a 3 and a premier position player (I’m not indicating Goff is great here, but he is a quarterback in the NFL)... I’m terrified at the Watson price.

 

 

It will be crazy.  And the media just loves pumping up what it will be.  If it were up to them Watson should get ten first round picks in return and even that's not enough.   As I've stated before most of the national media is so obnoxious on the Watson stuff.  i love Watson.  but if you read what some in the national media think of him, you'd think he's Brady/Manning/Rodgers all wrapped into one.

 

Having said that both Finlay and Keim think they will be in the Watson business.  So maybe there is something to that smoke.  Clearly the smoke on Stafford was right.

 

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

My focus now shifts to Dak. I am hoping Dallas screws it up and doesn’t franchise him.

 

 

I think at best they will do the tag and trade.  I'd say close to zero chance he hits the market free.  I'd guess you'd have to trade with them.   

 

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If we lose out on the bigger name QBs I think the Carrs of the world come into play... but I’d also expect to hear news were trying to move up in the draft. 

 

Someone on twitter said they'd be interested in Carr, don't recall if it was a credible source.  But nothing out there right now that the Raiders are shopping him.

 

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I’m curious what it would cost to get to 4... 5... 6... in the draft.

 

If experts are right, which I’m not sold on, that gives a real strong chance of 2 of the Fields, Lance, Wilson triumvirate to be available if before 5... one of the triumvirate if after 5. 

 

I'd think at a minimum their first this year, their first in 2022.  And also either their first in 2023 or multiple 2nds.  It's a long way to climb up in the draft.  In 2012, we gave up three firsts and a 2nd to climb 4 spots and we had a top ten pick which is an enticing pick.  Granted we overpaid but trading up this time is a bigger quest because of how far we are down in the draft.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Andre The Giant]

4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I don't see how Dallas can franchise Dak at $37.7 mil this year with -2 mil current cap situation for 2021

IMO, there’s no way Dallas lets Dak walk out the door.  They’ll either Franchise or extend him.  Not a realistic option for WFT. 
 

Scarcity of QBs makes them too valuable to just let walk.  Dallas can always create more cap space.

[HigSkin]

Seems like there's a lot of average teams (Carolina, Denver, Bears, SF, etc.) hunting these QB's, ones that aren't drafting high so we're not likely to see any QB's fall in the draft.  It's more like musical chairs.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by HigSkin

[tmandoug1]

I absolutely do not want to mortgage our future to move up in the draft this year......especially this year, as it seems a ton of teams are in dire need of a QB. Bring in a second tier guy, get the QB room healthy and let's see what happens. I am not even sure Lawrence is going to pan out in the pros much less the rest of them. But I am not a QB whisperer so I could be wrong......I usually am.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If it is a win mentality and the draft is the way to go you must ask:

How the hell much is it going to cost to move up?

How many of the top QB's will be able to start right away or at least before the halfway point in the season? Some of them do not have long resume

 

And to SIPs point, they do not believe in the current QB's on the roster, any chance Allen's injury is worse than believed?

Smith must know his days are numbered. I am afraid they turn to Ryan.

 

This is not a good year to need a starting QB

 

One of the media guys said Allen might not be ready for training camp so that injury was a serious one.

 

It would be one thing if them shooting hard for Stafford was out of left field.  But beat guys that I trust have been putting out billboards practically that this off season is all about them looking for a QB.  National guys said it too.  Rivera himself alluded to it in his comments.

 

I'd 0% chance they internally believe that Allen/Heinicke is the ticket to take them to the big dance.  I'd say 100% chance they have an urgency to do something about this ASAP.  but the big quandary is you could want that new house but if it doesn't go up for sale then what do you do?

 

My guess has been for quite some time that Rivera feels exactly like the people on this thread who big time want a QB and now feel.   It's not a hard guess.  Everything has pointed that way.

 

But the people who don't feel as desperate for a QB this year will end up winning from the context of them not giving up big capital to get one.  I'd put money that this debate turns closer as we head to March about who do we prefer Tryod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatrick or some version of a debate like that.  

[@DCGoldPants]

29 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I might be proven wrong, but I wouldn’t pay 2 first rounders, a third rounder, and a starting QB for an aging, oft injured, immobile QB that’s led his team to three losing seasons in a row and only is on contract for two years. 
 

To me, Stafford is fool’s gold. I’m glad we lost out on him. 

I wouldn't pay that. The oft injured thing has been debunked. He rarely misses games. He fights through stuff. But this isn't Chris Thompson oft injured. 

 

Still, thank you to LA and Detroit. No idea what Washington was offering but it definitely included a first rounder or 2 and we need some early round OL asap. 

[kingdaddy]

Sitting here today, it wouldnt surprise me if we go into camp with Alex, Allen, Heiny, Montez and a rookie...we are gonna be choosing between keeping Alex or cutting him to sign someone like Cam or Fitz...the market for QB's may force RR into seeing what he has in Heiny and Allen while getting a vet for insurance. And that might just be the best plan of all if the answer is here in house? 

Im not sweating losing out on Stafford, in fact I'm glad we didn't pay that price. 

 

[JoggingGod]

37 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not indicating Goff is great here, but he is a quarterback in the NFL

He still has negative value as an asset because of his atrocious contract. They basically paid a 1 and a 3 for Stafford and paid a 1 to get them to take Goff.

Edited January 31, 2021 by JoggingGod

[Skinsinparadise]

My simple take is I am not rooting against whatever Rivera wants.  So if he offered the moon for Stafford then i am 100% on board with that.  I am not happy that he didn't get what he wanted.  And like i said yesterday if he said something like look Kyle Allen and Taylor Heinicke are the answer for this club -- I'd be on board with that too.

 

Even if I genuinely thought (which I don't) that they need an O lineman or a WR or whatever more badly than a new QB, I am not rooting against Ron Rivera getting his way whatever that wat is.

[Acworth skins fan]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A.  In trade value a first next year is the equivalent of a 2nd now.  Pushing a pick one year down the road lowers the value of the pick versus keeping it the same.

Never understood this, when for weeks you’ve been saying a player picked, let’s say QB,in the first has a better chance of being good than in other rounds. Not being an ass, just don’t understand the thinking. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Acworth skins fan
Need to clarify

[DWinzit]

Lance is the one many of you see as our best possible target. 

 

If Ron decided to move up and was able to get him, how soon would you expect him to be ready to start? I have a hard time seeing being ready quickly even with his wheels.

 

Allen would be most needed at the beginning of the year if the team went with a Lance. If he isn't available and Smith is gone it means Heini and still get another experienced vet

[LD0506]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My simple take is I am not rooting against whatever Rivera wants.  So if he offered the moon for Stafford then i am 100% on board with that.  I am not happy that he didn't get what he wanted.  And like i said yesterday if he said something like look Kyle Allen and Taylor Heinicke are the answer for this club -- I'd be on board with that too.

 

Even if I genuinely thought (which I don't) that they need an O lineman or a WR or whatever more badly than a new QB, I am not rooting against Ron Rivera getting his way whatever that wat is.

 

Not to disagree with you, but personally I don't believe that making some monster deal for Stafford, etc. really gets us there without improvements in the secondary, or MLB, or O line. I might be more interested in the feeding frenzy for QBs making a move up somewhat to grab a Sewell possible for instance. That solidifies us offensively better and faster. Upgrading the WR corp pays off more than a hugely expensive QB vet scoring more in losing contests. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Acworth skins fan said:

Never understood this, when for weeks you’ve been saying a player picked, let’s say QB,in the first has a better chance of being good than in other rounds. Not being an ass, just don’t understand the thinking. 

 

Conventional trade capital stuff but I don't recall if it was via Jimmy Johnson system or someone else.  Simply put most teams consider an asset today is worth more than that exact same asset a year from now.  I recall someone for example explaining the trade value (maybe it was Shanny himself but don't recall) they got for Jason Campbell where it could have been a 6th that draft coming up or a 5th a draft after that or a 4th 2 drafts after.  They took the 4 and waited three draft seasons to get it.

 

If you buy a big screen TV and put money on it.  Does it feel the same to bring it to your house right away or you got to wait a year later to bring it to your house?  it's somewhat explained like that.

[Chump Bailey]

I understand those who might feel relieved about us not getting Stafford. I'm not one of them though. I think he would have been the solution to a problem that has vexed this team for years and with the right moves in FA and draft, I think Staff could have led us to the SB personally. Back to the drawing board.

[RichmondRedskin88]

I don’t know why but I feel like we’re gonna make a run at Watson totally out of left field.  It just feels like it.  

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, BurgundyBooger said:

 

Because like raising the price of any good in a market, it discourages spending.

It also means more teams will be turning to the draft to address their QB needs

[Riggo#44]

9 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

Or, you know, draft one.

[Est.1974]

Well that sucks. I’m disappointed we missed out on Stafford.

 

However, that is genuinely offset by the price the Rams just paid. Would not have liked that being us, even though I would have been all over Stafford at QB.

 

So, it is what is in. There was clearly an underlying interest from him to head in that direction.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Not to disagree with you, but personally I don't believe that making some monster deal for Stafford, etc. really gets us there without improvements in the secondary, or MLB, or O line. I might be more interested in the feeding frenzy for QBs making a move up somewhat to grab a Sewell possible for instance. That solidifies us offensively better and faster. Upgrading the WR corp pays off more than a hugely expensive QB vet scoring more in losing contests. 

 

I gather from this that you are in the camp of a game manager with a souped up supporting cast can win a SB?   

 

OK even if I ran with that thought which I mostly disagree with where do you think Rivera is missing out about understanding his roster and how to build it?  

 

He's strongly hinted leading up to this they are going to dive hard for a QB.    All the beat guys said their big quest this off season is QB, QB, QB.  Then we learn that they made a big offer for Stafford.  And Keim and Finlay expect them to chase Watson too if he hits the market.  

 

So clearly overall Rivera doesn't see it the same way.  So if i felt like you do, I'd also be down on Rivera.  So wonder how you feel about him now?

9 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Or, you know, draft one.

 

We all would love to draft the next Stafford, etc.   But at the spot we are in, I guess we all got to start buying the Mac Jones hype?  I think that's the dude who might be closest to our pick albeit some dudes think he goes before our pick.  I noticed Albert Breer said yesterday he knows a bunch of teams grade Mac Jones as a 2nd round talent so maybe he doesn't end up the riser that some suspect he will be.  

 

The Jamie Newman hype fizzled some after his practices weren't as hot after day 1 and he didn't look hot either yesterday in the game.  I don't mind him as a third rounder type or Mond maybe in that same range as a flier/lottery ticket type. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise