Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Whiskeypeet]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I suppose it's possible that he's only doing that because Dan told him to, but I really don't think Ron is the kind of guy to play the lapdog. And I feel like he was probably pretty straightforward with Dan about what he expected in that regard when they were talking about him potentially coming here.

I felt the same way w/Shanny......but then RGIII

[CapsSkins]

45 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Yes. And Strasburg and Bruce Harper were great prospects. But I’m mostly a football guy with a little basketball on the side. 

 

Yup.

 

Best players ever in DC (no particular order): Alex Ovechkin, Walter Johnson, Sammy Baugh. Don't think there's another near those guys, maybe Darrell Green.

[Thinking Skins]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

From the reporting, it sounds like Ron himself went to Dan to say which direction he wanted to go for QB and he's been seemingly pretty open about the fact that they need to upgrade their QB situation. I suppose it's possible that he's only doing that because Dan told him to, but I really don't think Ron is the kind of guy to play the lapdog. And I feel like he was probably pretty straightforward with Dan about what he expected in that regard when they were talking about him potentially coming here.

Unfortunately I just don't believe anything when it comes to this team. Guys in the know drop hints to say what's going on but then other guys who we think are in the know day the opposite and it gets confusing and frustrating. Until he doesn't own the team I just expect that Dan runs the front office when he wants to. 

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I think you just pointed out the inherent flaw in the logic. Rodgers wasn't traded for. Green Bay just stood pat and just drafted him. Meanwhile. Washington did trade up for the next pick in that draft to take Jason Campbell. Would that then make the Campbell move "aggressive". What about the Chargers getting Phillip Rivers? Is that the opposite of aggressive, trading down to take your guy? And yeah, I'm just poking fun at this point.

 

It might take more than an aggressive move in 2021, it might take a minor miracle to trade into the Top 10 and draft a decent prospect. We'll see how the draft unfolds, but it might take a bounty of picks just to move up to take the 4th best guy in the draft.  Arizona might call that the Josh Rosen maneuver (Arizona sent first-, third-, and fifth-round selections to move up 5 spots to get Rosen. Washington would likely need to send more as it has to move up farther).

Rodgers was just a mistake (misrecollection) on my end, my bad.  Haven’t gone back to see if SIP replied to you (will in a sec), but I think it’s the idea of taking a qb at your draft spot or a relatively cheap one in FA versus trading or paying out fairly significant assets.  Then there’s probably a subjective/arbitrary trade cost that determines aggressiveness for him (Alex Smith, yes... Kyle Allen, no).  Anyway, it’s going to be interesting to see what they do, and aggressive can sometimes be the opposite of smart obviously.  

 

You know, the more I think about trading for Watson, the more my stance shifts.  I’m thinking about the idea of 3 1st rounders and the difference between a 1st and 2nd rounder (say, if we were addressing wide receiver), and the idea of a 1st round LT vs Cornelius Lucas (and a guy like Charles or whoever competing with Lucas).  Maybe the drop off isn’t as bad as I’ve envisioned and having an established (and young) qb papers over a lot of cracks, as it were.  Definitely puts us in a win now situation, but how well can we field a team paying Watson, Chase, Payne, and McLaurin (and whoever else)?  I don’t know.  Maybe it’s actually doable as we see sharp increases in the cap over the coming years.

Talk about aggressive though, lol.

[JoggingGod]

 

[Dark Acre]

When fans are salivating about other teams salary cap problems, teams are going to have to dump talent, yadda yadda, the situation is a mess and it's affecting the game in fundamental ways.  I did not say get rid of the cap, I said get rid of it or seriously revamp it.  Has anyone in the NFL analyzed how various aspects of the cap may be contributing to what's going on?  

[CjSuAvE22]

6 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

When fans are salivating about other teams salary cap problems, teams are going to have to dump talent, yadda yadda, the situation is a mess and it's affecting the game in fundamental ways.  I did not say get rid of the cap, I said get rid of it or seriously revamp it.  Has anyone in the NFL analyzed how various aspects of the cap may be contributing to what's going on?  

I agree there needs to be a cap on spending in terms of free agent talent but if you draft someone and want to resign them you should be able to do it with less of a cap hit...

[86 Snyder]

The only outcomes that really.move the needle for me this offseason are Watson, Stafford, or 1st round rookie not named Mac Jones.

 

Make it happen.

[Est.1974]

Well losing out to Carolina would piss me off.

[skinny21]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Having watched both of them, it's kinda clear that Stafford is in a bit of a different level than Alex Smith, even if only from a pure talent perspective. From what I've read they're both extremely smart QBs and are really good teammates so that's probably a wash. But Stafford can do things with the ball that Alex just can't, and never could. He's still got easily one of the best arms I've seen and he can also make a ton of off-platform throws that are just nuts. 

 

They're also completely opposite players in some ways. Stafford likes to drive the ball down the field, and will fit lots of throws into tight windows. Smith, as we all know, is much more comfortable with a short to intermediate game and isn't much of a risk taker. 

This actually brings up a concern I have with Stafford - the fit.  Don’t get me wrong, it was awesome seeing Heinicke pushing the ball downfield rather than hitting the short stuff consistently, but there’s serious value in hitting your checkdowns quickly, particularly when we’ve got McKissick (and Gibson) in that role.  Stafford seems on the aggressive side.  Of course, then we probably need to get serious about supplying him with downfield threats beyond Terry.  Doesn’t scare me off on Stafford, just thinking out loud really.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Having watched both of them, it's kinda clear that Stafford is in a bit of a different level than Alex Smith, even if only from a pure talent perspective. From what I've read they're both extremely smart QBs and are really good teammates so that's probably a wash. But Stafford can do things with the ball that Alex just can't, and never could. He's still got easily one of the best arms I've seen and he can also make a ton of off-platform throws that are just nuts. 

 

They're also completely opposite players in some ways. Stafford likes to drive the ball down the field, and will fit lots of throws into tight windows. Smith, as we all know, is much more comfortable with a short to intermediate game and isn't much of a risk taker. 

 

 

I'd add part of the narrative is Stafford carries the team on his back or at least tries to do so.   He's the Tom Cruise of the Mission Impossible movies.  He's the lead actor.  The team rides on Stafford's arm.  They rarely have any running game or defense.  I don't think its a coincidence that the one time the Lions had a top 10 defense they went 11-5.  Stafford is carrying the movie or at least tries to do.  

 

The fact that Alex Smith had his first 400 yard game ever this late in his career this season ironically against the dreadful Lions defense brings home that games were rarely on Alex's shoulders.  Alex is the dude to have when you got studs around you, and either a good defense or running game or both.   He doesn't screw up the party and instead keeps everything good flowing. 

 

I've listened to several Lions beat guys talk about Stafford in the last week and the common refrain was the Lions put the games on his shoulders with little help and they are jazzed to see what he'd look like with a real running game and or defense.

 

 

 

I watched it, he was so so at best

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I saw the Panthers reporter for the Athletic also say Panthers are in on Stafford.

 

 

 

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'd add part of the narrative is Stafford carries the team on his back or at least tries to do so.   He's the Tom Cruise of the Mission Impossible movies.  He's the lead actor.  The team rides on Stafford's arm.  They rarely have any running game or defense.  I don't think its a coincidence that the one time the Lions had a top 10 defense they went 11-5.  Stafford is carrying the movie or at least tries to do.  

 

The fact that Alex Smith had his first 400 yard game ever this late in his career this season ironically against the dreadful Lions defense brings home that games were rarely on Alex's shoulders.  Alex is the dude to have when you got studs around you, and either a good defense or running game or both.   He doesn't screw up the party and instead keeps everything good flowing. 

 

I've listened to several Lions beat guys talk about Stafford in the last week and the common refrain was the Lions put the games on his shoulders with little help and they are jazzed to see what he'd look like with a real running game and or defense.

 

 

 

I watched it, he was so so at best

 

 

 

Figured as much.  Did Mac Jones play?  IF so how did he do?

[Andre The Giant]

 

[DWinzit]

28 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Figured as much.  Did Mac Jones play?  IF so how did he do?

Nope. Jones hurt his ankle a couple days ago and sat the game out

 

Kellen Mond played okay and got game MVP. Newman played ol. No QB's did themselves a big solid for the draft

Edited January 30, 2021 by DWinzit

[wit33]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I'd add part of the narrative is Stafford carries the team on his back or at least tries to do so.   He's the Tom Cruise of the Mission Impossible movies.  He's the lead actor.  The team rides on Stafford's arm.  They rarely have any running game or defense.  I don't think its a coincidence that the one time the Lions had a top 10 defense they went 11-5.  Stafford is carrying the movie or at least tries to do.  

 

The fact that Alex Smith had his first 400 yard game ever this late in his career this season ironically against the dreadful Lions defense brings home that games were rarely on Alex's shoulders.  Alex is the dude to have when you got studs around you, and either a good defense or running game or both.   He doesn't screw up the party and instead keeps everything good flowing. 

 

I've listened to several Lions beat guys talk about Stafford in the last week and the common refrain was the Lions put the games on his shoulders with little help and they are jazzed to see what he'd look like with a real running game and or defense.

 

 

 

I watched it, he was so so at best

 

 

 

A little concerned Stafford is the last of a dying breed that is the pocket QB. Have to be incredibly elite to do it from the pocket and win consistently.  
 

Are there any numbers available to show how many throws a QB makes in and out of the pocket?? 

Edited January 30, 2021 by wit33

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

A little concerned Stafford is the last of a dying breed that is the pocket QB. Have to be incredibly elite to do it from the pocket. 
 

Are there any numbers available to show how many throws a QB makes in and out of the pocket?? 

 

Not sure about numbers for outside of the pocket but if you watch his tape or even highlights you'll see he makes plenty of off schedule plays where he breaks from the pocket. He's not Lamar Jackson but he's definitely no statue and can move (and throw on the run) really well. He's actually a very good improvisational QB; he's burned us multiple times with that ability. It's one of the reasons he has so many 4th quarter comebacks. He just makes stuff happen when it needs to. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by mistertim

[86 Snyder]

18 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Nope. Jones hurt his ankle a couple days ago and sat the game out

 

Kellen Mond played okay and got game MVP. Newman played ol. No QB's did themselves a big solid for the draft

 

How convenient.

[Warhead36]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure about numbers for outside of the pocket but if you watch his tape or even highlights you'll see he makes plenty of off schedule plays where he breaks from the pocket. He's not Lamar Jackson but he's definitely no statue and can move (and throw on the run) really well. He's actually a very good improvisational QB; he's burned us multiple times with that ability. It's one of the reasons he has so many 4th quarter comebacks. He just makes stuff happen when it needs to. 

Yeah he's actually got decent mobility. You don't need a guy who's a track star but you need someone who can make off schedule plays.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure about numbers for outside of the pocket but if you watch his tape or even highlights you'll see he makes plenty of off schedule plays where he breaks from the pocket. He's not Lamar Jackson but he's definitely no statue and can move (and throw on the run) really well. He's actually a very good improvisational QB; he's burned us multiple times with that ability. It's one of the reasons he has so many 4th quarter comebacks. He just makes stuff happen when it needs to. 

 

Yep.  He's not Mahomes on that front but he has some of that flavor in his game.  His 40 time ironically is exactly the same as Mahomes.  And like Mahomes he has elite arm strength. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

Would be surprised if it’s a situation where teams are throwing out competing bids. What are your thoughts? Do you think it’s a scenario of teams in the dark competing with one another?? 

 

 

Don't know.  I could argue it either way.  You can leak a high bid to try to get a better one from a competitor or give teams the impression that high bids are going on and keep them in the dark so they bid against themselves. 

 

Too many people say there are a number of suitors for me to discount that.  So I buy that.  But a number of suitors doesn't per se mean that they are all super serious.  Some might have just poked around on it. 

 

Breer has been right a lot over the years.  He has played up today in the mix of things:  Carolina and Washington.  I'd guess he's right but in a bidding contest something like that could change in a minute.

 

Following a bit of the soap opera part of this the 49ers and Carolina strike me interesting:

 

it seems clear that the 49ers were in and now they are claming otherwise.  I'd guess they were put off by something on the Lions end.  Maybe its the Rams story from last night?  Kyle Shanny is a bit prickly. Maybe they goy annoyed at either giving a good offer to the Lions and the Lions kept asking for more and or they think the Lions are trying to manipulate the Rams into this to increase their leverage?  Just spit balling.  But i am guessing something turned them off.  

 

Carolina is interesting to me because reading their clippings this off season it seems like with all of Tepper's supposed fascination with anaylitics they've arrived to the conclusion that they need a really good QB to have a chance.  The king  outfit of anaylitics, PFF, is obsessive about the QB spot.  PFF doesn't buy the theory that a supporting cast coupled with an average Qb is the way to go -- instead they think the sun rises and falls with a QB.  And Tepper and Carolina seems to be shouting from the rooftops about how desperately they want a QB. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/albert-breer-says-washington-solidly-hunt-matthew-stafford

Hosting a live Periscope session for his Twitter followers on Saturday, Breer took questions about the NFL offseason as things begin to heat up. One question asked was if Washington was showing interest in Stafford. Breer stated that the team is, but Washington is not alone.

“Yeah I think there is. I mean I’m going to tell you that the interest has been strong in Matthew Stafford over the last, I’d say five or six days," Breer said.

“I can give you seven teams that I know are solidly in it. That would be Washington, Carolina, New England, Indianapolis, Chicago. San Francisco and LA [Rams] we’ll see."

Edited January 30, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know.  I could argue it either way.  You can leak a high bid to try to get a better one from a competitor or give teams the impression that high bids are going on and keep them in the dark so they bid against themselves. 

 

Too many people say there are a number of suitors for me to discount that.  So I buy that.  But a number of suitors doesn't per se mean that they are all super serious.  Some might have just poked around on it. 

 

Breer has been right a lot over the years.  He has played up today in the mix of things:  Carolina and Washington.  I'd guess he's right but in a bidding contest something like that could change in a minute.

 

Following a bit of the soap opera part of this the 49ers and Carolina strike me interesting:

 

it seems clear that the 49ers were in and now they are claming otherwise.  I'd guess they were put off by something on the Lions end.  Maybe its the Rams story from last night?  Kyle Shanny is a bit prickly. Maybe they goy annoyed at either giving a good offer to the Lions and the Lions kept asking for more and or they think the Lions are trying to manipulate the Rams into this to increase their leverage?  Just spit balling.  But i am guessing something turned them off.  

 

Carolina is interesting to me because reading their clippings this off season it seems like with all of Tepper's supposed fascination with anaylitics they've arrived to the conclusion that they need a really good QB to have a chance.  The king  outfit of anaylitics, PFF, is obsessive about the QB spot.  PFF doesn't buy the theory that a supporting cast coupled with an average Qb is the way to go -- instead they think the sun rises and falls with a QB.  And Tepper and Carolina seems to be shouting from the rooftops about how desperately they want a QB. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/albert-breer-says-washington-solidly-hunt-matthew-stafford

Hosting a live Periscope session for his Twitter followers on Saturday, Breer took questions about the NFL offseason as things begin to heat up. One question asked was if Washington was showing interest in Stafford. Breer stated that the team is, but Washington is not alone.

“Yeah I think there is. I mean I’m going to tell you that the interest has been strong in Matthew Stafford over the last, I’d say five or six days," Breer said.

“I can give you seven teams that I know are solidly in it. That would be Washington, Carolina, New England, Indianapolis, Chicago. San Francisco and LA [Rams] we’ll see."

 

 

Chicago is out.  No way is Detroit trading him in division.  

 

I don't see Carolina as viable.  Are they trading #8?  If not, than it would have to be a 2021 2nd+2022 1st+2022 3rd.

 

 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said:

This may sound strange but what do you guys think about the possibility that Jerruh, who constantly contradicts himself, changing his mind again about Prescott, and decides to go all in on Watson, and dumps Prescott.  I know he has a two-week franchise-tag period in late Feb/early March to sign Dak to a long term deal or franchise tag him again but I just think with the guys out there available he may dump Prescott.  If Jones does that I think we should entertain going after him.  A little revenge goes a long way with a decent QB with a decent supporting cast. I just do not see the Cowboys signing him to a long term deal because Jones like bright new fancy toys. And they will NOT  franchise tag him because it is a 20% raise over his 2020 pay and that is 21.5% of their salary cap. I am not saying it will happen but Jones does some weird **** and I think it would short-sighted of the WFT NOT to entertain it if he is dumped. And I think he would be motivated.

Absolutely possible....for sure. Any team that doesn't consider Watson would be crazy....

[FootballZombie]

I think we are doing exactly what we need to with Stafford. Put a competitive offer on the table, one you are comfortable with paying.

 

Don't bite on all these attempts from Det to get someone to whale. Stand your ground at your price-point. All these reports that Stafford would like to go to teams that are not even reported to be in the mix are pure smoke.

 

If another team chooses to take the bait and blow their wad, let-em. If not, you might just get your guy, on your terms.

 

We are still very early in the QB market offseason, the only one off the board so far is Haskins, and its not like he was an option. No need to mash the panic button just yet

[88Comrade2000]

I personally would love to see Houston call Watson’s bluff. Tell him he plays for Houston or he can retire. Let him sit out a year.

 

Now, if they cave into his demands and trade him ; Houston will want 2 things from any Watson trade. 
 

#1- the ability to get a replacement QB

#2- draft picks - the higher the better.

 

I already mentioned that the Jets, Dolphins and Jaguars  as the teams that best can meet Houston’s demands. Now, Jacksonville will probably draft Lawrence; so they are out.

 

San Francisco has a higher pick and a QB that Houston could use or trade to someone.

 

Washington would have to give up 3 first round picks and at least 2 second picks; to be equal what other teams could give. Now, one if those first round picks can be a player. I still think that’s too much.

 

One final thing, since Watson had a no trade clause; he basically dictates where Houston can trade him.
 

Stafford is affordable but something tells me; he goes elsewhere.

 

My guess we get a second tier QB to be our 21 starter and draft someone to be groomed to take over in 22 or 23. Taylor and Kyle will be resigned to battle for the backup position but only will make the final roster; since the rookie QB us being groomed to be the eventual starter.