Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[veteranskinsfan]

I heard Darryl Moose Johnston on the radio and he said he really likes Taylor Heinke.  He said quarterbacks that come from small schools learn quickly how to

rollout and avoid the rush.   He liked what Taylor did in his last game with the Redskins.

[Chump Bailey]

Seems like a good draft class this year to go WR shopping IMO. Lot's of potential sleepers.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Certainly seems like those two, plus Rivera, all emphasis the same message. 
 

I actually think the greater sticking point is players being traded out, in the case of acquiring Watson, not necessarily draft picks.

 

Also, I agree with the principle of not ‘mortgaging the future’. However, to counter that, is trading for a 25 years old franchise QB solely doing that. You could argue it is securing the long term future. That’s playing the long game. Now a 33 year old QB, different story.

 

I am good with going to get Watson but with limits on how much i'd give.   I just don't see how we can't go crazy to usurp the Jets and Miami.

 

But I do agree with all those that say it will be wild and he'd make the team really good.  I think if you get Watson, sign a MLB, sign a WR, we are an instant SB threat.  I agree with Sheehan on that point, if I recall Cooley thinks so too.  I'd give the RG3 deal in an offer which is a big offer.  But considering we are picking 19, I am guessing we'd have go go much crazier than the RG3 offer.

 

But to stay consistent I want whatever Ron wants.  So whatever he does, I'll back it -- lol even Darnold if i must. 

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

The ONLY thing (other than the obvious being bust-factor) concern that I have with the draft-centric approach to a QB is that it might hinder your ability to bring in a top-flight WR.

 

Now, there's enough of these guys on the market that we'll certainly get an upgrade. But the difference between Carr and a rookie QB, is someone like ARob who has been in QB purgatory, would probably want to avoid going to a team without an established QB. Now, that could all change if he/they buy into the vision Ron and Co. set out. Not a huge deal, just something to consider.

 

A rookie QB approach could mean that we get Curtis Samuel for $10m/APY instead of ARob or Chris Godwin or Kenny Golladay for $17-20m. Which is probably okay in my mind too. I think if you take the rookie approach, you focus FA on getting that one WR, getting solutions on defense, and taking your remaining picks and focusing on offense.

 

If we have to trade #51 and a 2022 1st to move up for Fields, then I think you spend the 3/3/4/5 on offense.

 

You'll have an easier time getting your FA defenders into the mix because they'll want to play for JDR and behind that DL. No doubt about it.

 

While Curtis Samuel is an upgrade for sure, I think you'll need to hit the draft hard to keep getting weapons on offense to biuild around the rook.

It would be all part of the plan if I were in charge. The league is going less power based and more finesse based. Spread offenses are the norm. Nickel and Dime 4-2 defenses happen to match up with fast slots. The defenses are smaller and quicker. Offenses capitalize on speed. 
 

If you have all that... awesome. Use it. It works. If you don’t... go to the well where there’s less competition. Go to a gap power scheme with pulling linemen. Go under center at times with a fullback and jam it down the defenses  throat then spread them out with the guys you have.

 

Shore the OL and get an every down back who can bruise a defense. Utilize Gibson and McKissick in the slot and as split backs to compliment the power run. Give Gibson the ball 15-20 times a game in conjunction with the new back. 
 

Get a fullback. 
 

Go one less tight end.

 

Shore up the line. Linemen would love to hear a coach say, “hey, we want you because our plan is to shove the ball down the defense’s throat. Fullback and all. We think you like kicking peoples teeth in. You want in?”

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by KDawg

[Lovi]

17 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

The ONLY thing (other than the obvious being bust-factor) concern that I have with the draft-centric approach to a QB is that it might hinder your ability to bring in a top-flight WR.

 

Now, there's enough of these guys on the market that we'll certainly get an upgrade. But the difference between Carr and a rookie QB, is someone like ARob who has been in QB purgatory, would probably want to avoid going to a team without an established QB. Now, that could all change if he/they buy into the vision Ron and Co. set out. Not a huge deal, just something to consider.

 

A rookie QB approach could mean that we get Curtis Samuel for $10m/APY instead of ARob or Chris Godwin or Kenny Golladay for $17-20m. Which is probably okay in my mind too. I think if you take the rookie approach, you focus FA on getting that one WR, getting solutions on defense, and taking your remaining picks and focusing on offense.

 

If we have to trade #51 and a 2022 1st to move up for Fields, then I think you spend the 3/3/4/5 on offense.

 

You'll have an easier time getting your FA defenders into the mix because they'll want to play for JDR and behind that DL. No doubt about it.

 

While Curtis Samuel is an upgrade for sure, I think you'll need to hit the draft hard to keep getting weapons on offense to biuild around the rook.

i agree with this. However this also applies to defense. Getting that MLB could be a lot easier with the DL we already have in place. I’d focus on getting that for sure. Especially if we have to opt for a middle tier WR. 

[Koolblue13]

I'd like to go draft heavy and sit back in FA a bit honestly. Maybe a few prove it deals. I was really "Make a run" gung ho after making the playoffs, and I think we can again regardless or at least be an improved team. 

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It would be all part of the plan if I were in charge. The league is going less power based and more finesse based. Spread offenses are the norm. Nickel and Dime 4-2 defenses happen to match up with fast slots. The defenses are smaller and quicker. Offenses capitalize on speed. 
 

If you have all that... awesome. Use it. It works. If you don’t... go to the well where there’s less competition. Go to a gap power scheme with pulling linemen. Go under center at times with a fullback and jam it down the defenses  throat then spread them out with the guys you have.

 

Shore the OL and get an every down back who can bruise a defense. Utilize Gibson and McKissick in the slot and as split backs to compliment the power run. Give Gibson the ball 15-20 times a game in conjunction with the new back. 
 

Get a fullback. 
 

Go one less tight end.

 

Shore up the line. Linemen would love to hear a coach say, “hey, we want you because our plan is to shove the ball down the defense’s throat. Fullback and all. We think you like kicking peoples teeth in. You want in?”

 

 

If done right, it's winning football. If you control the clock on offense and can take the ball away on defense, you generally win the game. 

 

I personally enjoy that style of the game better as well.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But to stay consistent I want whatever Ron wants.  So whatever he does, I'll back it -- lol even Darnold if i must. 

I was with you until the bolded part.  We give a decent pick for Sam Darnold, it's going to be hard to pretend that's exciting.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Also when Sheehan asked about emerging players:  he said:

 

James Smith-Williams

 

This is really good to hear, tbh. Because I do/did fear that losing Kerrigan this off-season would really leave a hole at DE behind Sweat and Young. You can never have too many pass-rushers, and my fear/sense is that we might need to spend an earlier than expected pick to re-stock behind those two. Maybe a FA on a low-pressure 1-2 year prove-it deal to rotate in would work too. But hearing he's high on the 7th rounder gives me some confidence that there's a little depth there

[Warhead36]

Darnold is damaged goods and advanced metrics suggest he might have been just as bad as Haskins last year. The Jets offense looked way better when Flacco stepped in.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd like to go draft heavy and sit back in FA a bit honestly. Maybe a few prove it deals. I was really "Make a run" gung ho after making the playoffs, and I think we can again regardless or at least be an improved team.

 

I agree with this. I think we can add some solid guys in FA like we did last year. Maybe 1-2 bigger deals other than Darby and Scherff on MLB and WR ... but not the mega deals some expet. Stick to the blueprint that worked last year in FA as much as possible. Use the draft to add the talent. I do think we are "in a window" with a QB, but if we opt to go with a rookie that window might be more realistically int he 2022-2024 range, and we will have gobs of cap space those two years to make really aggressive moves if we see fit. This might be the year to re-sign our guys and fill a couple of holes, with eyes on the draft and develop approach and hit FA hard in 2022 and 2023. We currently have $133 and $177m in projected cap space those two years. Obviously those numbers WILL shrink as we add Scheff, Darby, WR, MLB, draft class and extend Allen and Payne. But it will not take up all that space by any means.

[redskins4ever28]

Darnold is plain awful. If an NFL coach can’t see that, then I misjudged Ron. I trust he and damn near everyone else in the world can see how bad Darnold is. He’s basically mark Sanchez 2.0

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I agree with this. I think we can add some solid guys in FA like we did last year. Maybe 1-2 bigger deals other than Darby and Scherff on MLB and WR ... but not the mega deals some expet. Stick to the blueprint that worked last year in FA as much as possible. Use the draft to add the talent. I do think we are "in a window" with a QB, but if we opt to go with a rookie that window might be more realistically int he 2022-2024 range, and we will have gobs of cap space those two years to make really aggressive moves if we see fit. This might be the year to re-sign our guys and fill a couple of holes, with eyes on the draft and develop approach and hit FA hard in 2022 and 2023. We currently have $133 and $177m in projected cap space those two years. Obviously those numbers WILL shrink as we add Scheff, Darby, WR, MLB, draft class and extend Allen and Payne. But it will not take up all that space by any means.

I'm 100% on board with this. I have to believe that Ron knew taking over that it wasn't a one year turn around. He got coach of the year, because he steered this paddleless canoe into the playoffs somehow. He said last year was for evaluation. I think this year the build begins and 22-24 we absolutely contend for SB and win along the way and I'm totally on board with that. After seeing players turn us down to play for the Browns and Cowboys, it really drove home how badly we needed to be fixed fundamentally. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watson is a hard one for me to figure it out but I'd lean no.  Rivera describing the power of a franchise QB on Sheehan this morning -- you can tell he's not in the get yourself a game manager and load him with weapons and win a SB camp.  He doesn't come off even a little in that camp.   It's clear as a bell to me he doesn't buy the Nick Foles SB theory for this team.  He thinks you need that guy.  

 

 

But I still don't know what he does when he can't get that guy. His actions seem to indicate that he's OK going with a Nick Foles type when he can't get the next Cam Newton. Look right here with guys like Smith and Allen. Even the words yesterday indicate that he wants a franchise guy but won't overpay for one, so it leaves the possibility of what we've been discussing the guys we have or one of these second tier guys. 

[KDawg]

You should also be after the franchise guy, within reason, that helps your team and doesn’t mortgage your future. In MY opinion via the draft or FA if you have a core built and you’re missing a piece or two. 
 

But if you don’t find that guy you have to find guys that you trust.

 

Theres a reason Fitzpatrick is so valued in the league. Finding that guy is hard.

 

And big trade shortcuts can hurt you and actually give you a window...

 

People always talk about windows but a window is something I’d like to avoid, not build towards. 
 

I am more than okay with Heinicke/Allen/third option this season if we can’t get a franchise level guy for reasonable cost.

 

But I strongly agree that you need to always look for that guy.

Edited February 4, 2021 by KDawg

[Andre The Giant]

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

The fact that they are talking about marquee QBs and show Darnold is scary.

 

He’s no better than Haskins.

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I did sir. It was in the FO thread. I did it knowing it wouldn’t stick and it was terrible and now that it seems to be living on I am so happy

 

It's so big there are are already 2 (Ron-Marty Hurney and Ron-Martin Mayhew).

 

NSFW (4 letter word and can't filter out...) https://stchucky.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/franchise.gif?w=640

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

It's so big there are are already 2 (Ron-Marty Hurney and Ron-Martin Mayhew).

 

 

I just did Ron-Mart.

RON Rivera

MARTin Mayhew 

MARTy Hurney

 

Its like Wal-Mart

Edited February 4, 2021 by KDawg

[mistertim]

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

Totally agree.  ALL of us saw a man who has the "IT" factor when he played his first game for the WFT against the NFC Champs and almost beat them.  He's no one night wonder.  To me, he's the real deal. If only he can add that 10-15 pounds and stay healthy.  IF so, we found a rare diamond.  

 

I certainly hope Heinicke ends up being a rare diamond...but he's started 1 game for us. That literally makes him a "one night wonder" at this point. So far he's been on 5 NFL teams in 6 seasons. So it's not like we just happened to find a college diamond that nobody else saw. Multiple teams have seen what he has an let him go.

 

Did we somehow find the Heinicke cheat code that others missed? Maybe. But what's more likely...that Heinicke is actually an elite undrafted QB that 5 teams have completely missed and we unearthed, or that he's actually a pretty mediocre QB who shows flashes and flashed the game he started?

 

As I've said before, I'm fine with keeping Heinicke, and I'm not saying to discount him. But I also think it would be a fool's errand to have any sort of assumption that he's the guy or to rely on it. Ron seems to agree. 

[HigSkin]

 

Don't shoot the messenger.  LOL

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Don't shoot the messenger.  LOL

 

I don't take media guys opinions as gospel. DJ is a smart guy and I respect him. But he's not all that clued in to the WFT org in my estimation and he's looking at it strictly from a "what does he do vs. what do they value" mindset. 

 

I don't disagree that the things Darnold does well fit our offense (though I don't think he's mobile enough to fit the profile completely). But the context of the statement seems to overlook why he doesn't fit. 

[Blanka]

Gonna order my Sam jersey now. @Skinsinparadise I’ll buy you one too 😉

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I was with you until the bolded part.  We give a decent pick for Sam Darnold, it's going to be hard to pretend that's exciting.

 

Yep.  And I am fearful my hate for this move is going to will it into existence 😧

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

Hmm...is this turning into a catch all thread?

[Andre The Giant]

Eagles, like the Raiders, are using the media to let it be known that they’re listening.  Schefter said yesterday Wentz is unhappy and will probably be traded.