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A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

JSSkinz

By JSSkinz
in The Stadium

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TK
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Pay Attention Knuckleheads

 

 

Has your team support wained due to ownership or can you see past it?  

229 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you attend a game and support the team while Dan Snyder is the owner of the team, regardless of success?

    • Yes
      47
    • No
      106
    • I would start attending games if Dan was no longer the owner of the team.
      77

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method man

method man

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Washington's Harris a hot commodity to be stolen, at least next year

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/washington-football-team-coach-name-to-watch-in-coordinator-search

 

 

I wonder if he they can give him a promotion to associate head coach or something a la the Gibbs 2 days. If he leaves for another org, I want it to be for a HC position so we can get 2 3rd round picks when the time is right

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
On 2/6/2021 at 10:30 AM, Burgold said:

I dunno. There's a lot of evidence out there suggesting he is.

A fool couldn’t buy an NFL franchise by his 35th birthday.

On 2/5/2021 at 9:38 AM, NickyJ said:

I am certain that the only reason Doug Williams has been promoted to Jason Wright's Senior Suggester position is because to fire Doug right now would be kick him out with the rest of the Bruce holdovers.

It’s not a promotion.  It’s at best a lateral move.  And it’s out of Ron’s part of the organization, out of football ops entirely. 
 

I don’t thinks that’s a small thing.  I think Ron wants EVERYBODY associated with Bruce out of his life and out of football ops. If he wants to help Jason with the stadium, fine, but I’m sure he doesn’t want even the smallest possibility Doug would go to Dan directly about a player issue.

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method man

method man

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

A fool couldn’t buy an NFL franchise by his 35th birthday.

It’s not a promotion.  It’s at best a lateral move.  And it’s out of Ron’s part of the organization, out of football ops entirely. 
 

I don’t thinks that’s a small thing.  I think Ron wants EVERYBODY associated with Bruce out of his life and out of football ops. If he wants to help Jason with the stadium, fine, but I’m sure he doesn’t want even the smallest possibility Doug would go to Dan directly about a player issue.


Remember Doug was the one pounding the table for Ron not to cut Dwayne right after strippergate. That must have had Ron thinking twice on Doug

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TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Burgold said:

It's a dangerous practice to conflate wealth with intelligence or lack of foolishness.

Exactly - much of Snyder's wealth had to do with the stars aligning for him and his ability to benefit from the tech bubble. Good for him and he certainly deserves some credit, but he's not some shrewd businessman 

On 2/6/2021 at 8:43 AM, Dissident2 said:

 

Those earlier quotes from Goodell don't have me very hopeful.

“To me, the important thing in the context of this is that the Washington football club has made a lot of changes already,” Goodell said. “They asked for this type of review. They asked for the recommendations on this. Dan and Tanya [Snyder] are going to be done making those changes for the football club. It’s really — it’s good to see that. But I expect that Beth’s recommendations will be something that will be added to that.”

 

The way he's talking about "Dan and Tanya" there is sickening and really points to what will probably be the overall outcome in all of this. "They asked for this type of review." Who is this idiot trying to fool? The only reason any of these "good moves" have been happening is because Snyder has been deprived of all other options. Sure, the result of these moves is good for the team on the field, but the main question people with a conscience should be asking is, do they exonerate this man for the past 20 years, especially when he's never admitted to ANY wrongdoing and continues to deny everything?

 

This is very disappointing to say the least. 

 

And to the bolded part above, of course they don't. Hiring people as a PR move should have no bearing on the fact that Snyder preyed upon and wronged dozens of females who worked for him. That's something that should cost him the team. 

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TSO

TSO

Posted
Posted
On 2/4/2021 at 9:41 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't have the hostility that the person below has towards Kyle but that's the third example of it coming out that someone else pushed said player.  The others being McKissic and Logan Thomas. 

 

 

 


(This isn’t directed at you, SIP)

 

 I’m going to just let go of how moronic this tweet is, how much misinformation continues to get perpetuated by fans and media about the importance of proper organizational structure, how Dan influencing the process with his “...why not both?” suggestion is indicative of yet another failure on his end to implement said structure, and how what Mayhew said about ours being “loosely defined” is the same crap we’ve been eating for decades under Dan.... 

 

Let’s skip all that because I know it’s simply not going to matter to most and I’m just going to be hated for focusing on it. 
 

But there’s something about this tweet here I’ve just got to talk about. 
 

I have to wonder what happened with Kyle and Ron to get Ron to start pushing this narrative that completely removes him from any positive moves that occurred with the team. This is Ron less than a year ago: 

 

 image.thumb.png.9581bf35be2cd5dd45e5d26dd2530547.png

 

So now he’s got fans and media saying stuff like Kyle wasn’t involved at all with these type of moves and the coaches themselves are being given all the credit instead. 
 

This is a bit problematic to me on multiple levels.

 

Forget about giving Kyle Smith his due since he’s gone anyway... but this can’t sit well with the remnants of the scouting staff we still have in the building. Now, I doubt Ron is not giving them credit behind the scenes, but you never want to see that being stolen from them publicly. There are many reasons as to why that’s problematic, but I won’t get into that here for the sake of brevity. 
 

The other (bigger) issue with this is, it is indicative of how easy it is for people to misconstrue successes or not recognize sound processes when the structure is not defined properly or there’s too much vagueness there. The way it’s supposed to work is that scouts who put in all their time and effort towards evaluating talent present these players to coaches and get input on how they’ll fit (or not) in what the coaches are trying to do. Ideally, the head scout who is the expert at this particular job would then have final say over those decisions. Of course, that’s not what we’ve got going on here, but I digress. 

 

The above quote actually shows a semblance of a sound process taking place where that happened. Kyle and the scouts brought this player to their attention and the coaches responded positively. But the lack of this process being formalized structurally now results in that being minimized or completely omitted, at least publicly. 
 

If there ever was a clear indication to the issues that arise from poorly implemented organizational structures, and proof that no one should be claiming they’re insignificant even though it means we’re facing a reality we’d rather not face, this is it right here. 
 

Something seems really off with this and it’s concerning to say the least. I can get into exactly why it’s concerning on multiple levels, but I’m too tired of this whole topic and I know how I’m likely to be responded to, anyway. So, forgive me for this inconvenience and at least try to  know that I’m not actively trying to be negative about anything. 😕 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Exactly - much of Snyder's wealth had to do with the stars aligning for him and his ability to benefit from the tech bubble. Good for him and he certainly deserves some credit, but he's not some shrewd businessman 

Right.  Just look at everything else he's touched since then for evidence.

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TSO

TSO

Posted
Posted
On 2/5/2021 at 7:38 AM, NickyJ said:

Doug is already being handled exceedingly politely by the front office. They get paid for it, I don't.

 

Doug has had 1 success in his front office career: He got Adrian Peterson. That also happened to be the strategy that most callers to the Fred Smoot Show would have suggested. The only other value Doug had was to be able to walk out onto the podium and say "I'm Doug Williams and I approve this message" because he was the only public-facing member of the FO who wasn't a certifiable slimeball.

 

I am certain that the only reason Doug Williams has been promoted to Jason Wright's Senior Suggester position is because to fire Doug right now would be kick him out with the rest of the Bruce holdovers. Doug deserves better than for his legacy to be tarnished with his career ending in the same cleanup as Bruce's crew. So now he gets to ride for a bit before quietly retiring and being remembered for what he was: A class act QB, Redskins Super Bowl legend, and all around a devoted member of the team.


To add to this, I think the Doug move was simply to remove him from anything to do with football operations and keep him on the business side. 
 

I mean, in his last position he was essentially in charge of keeping players in check off the field, and yet not only did he fail that during the season with Haskins, he was actively involved in pushing Ron to make one of the worst “culture-building” decisions I’ve ever seen where Haskins was still entrusted as the starter after breaking COVID protocols for the second time, immediately after a friggin loss! 
 

I think Ron was probably livid at this after the fact as, knowing how principled he is, it meant he budged significantly on said principles to chase something short sighted. 
 

So, to me at least, this is Doug being removed from anything to do with anything football without outright firing him, lol. He’s a good ambassador to the team and so he should fit in on the business side perfectly well.

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TSO

TSO

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@thesubmittedone You're not alone here.  Not a big fan of having any semblance of the same ole same ole, in regards to folks leaving here - where folks pretend, all the good things are from folks still here, and the person who left wasn't all that great anyways.


This is a great point, BFS, but that’s not even it for me. What’s done is done... I’m just concerned about the optics of all this. 
 

If Ron actually believes what he’s saying, that’s a big problem. If he doesn’t and is actively lying or reshaping a narrative publicly, that still is quite concerning. 
 

There are many layers of issues that arise from the above that I’ve spent most of my time on this board talking about, at least on a surface-level, so I’d rather not go in depth again for what seemingly results in a fruitless endeavor anyway, but yeah... there’s no way I can sit there and just be like:

 

 

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted

https://theathletic.com/2252548/2020/12/10/does-the-title-matter-ron-rivera-and-kyle-smith-are-making-it-work-so-far/

“I thought that the communication between Kyle and I as he was setting the final board was exactly what you look for,” Rivera said following April’s NFL Draft, “As you go through the process you should see things quite close to one another.”

 

“I have a lot of trust and belief in what Kyle and our college scouts have been doing,” Rivera said. But when asked recently about Washington finding success in free agency, Rivera did not mention scouts directly. In one instance he cited tight ends coach Pete Hoener as an advocate for Thomas, a former college quarterback who had 35 receptions in four seasons elsewhere. Thomas’ 43 receptions this season for Washington trails only McLaurin and McKissic.

 

“I think it’s pretty good,” Rivera said. “We work through the things that we need to work through, and that’s probably the biggest thing. If something comes up, we’ll communicate it. If not, there’s not much else to communicate.” As for Smith’s role moving forward, Rivera said, “I think he’s done a nice job for us. Again, as we continue to go forward, I think the big thing more so than anything else is we’ve got to make sure we’re all on the same page.”

 

@thesubmittedone, lets also remember that Ron always said that the GM decision wasn't his but was Mr. Snyder's 

 

 

So this is easily something that has multiple layers, but in my opinion things must have broken down when Snyder got involved and we can see why - because Smith stood up to a man with a fragile ego. Then there's this. 

 

 

But what could be the cause for such an argument? Maybe Kyle not trusting Dan? 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

This is a great point, BFS, but that’s not even it for me. What’s done is done... I’m just concerned about the optics of all this. 

I get that side of it too.  I was speaking more from the fan side of things, where folks go cherry picking for tidbits to support whatever it is we currently have and downplay whoever goes.  It rarely bodes well for us.  

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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TSO

TSO

Posted
Posted

@Thinking Skins I don’t know, brother... I could easily see it as having “broken down” once Snyder got involved (as legitimately everything does when he’s involved), but I can’t just go off of that speculation, as valid as your line of thinking may be. 
 

For me, the bigger problem is with the core issue I’ve focused on here where you give someone who has spent his entire career coaching total power over aspects of the organization he’s simply not an expert at. Now, Ron recognized immediately he needed help on the business side and brought in Wright, which was very good, and he quickly realized he needed more help on the player personnel side which has lead to the recent reshaping of the FO... but it’s still not ideal and these are the type of things that happen when it’s not. 
 

Are we seeing delusions arising from the top that places too much credit on the coaches at the expense of the scouts who actually did the work to identify these players? Are we going to see them have less of an impact as time goes on?  Did we lose out on better prospects at GM because Ron wouldn’t give up final say over the roster (if the argument is that doesn’t really matter and he’s going to delegate anyway, then why not just do it formally? That works both ways since, hey, no big deal and that’s how it’s going to be, right? And that would actually be EXACTLY like the other successful “coach-centric” models and even the Niners which Mayhew wrongly compared our structure with)? 
 

These are the things I’m concerned about. 
 

Of course, ultimately this is all a “Dan problem” in the first place. So, either way, you’re right. He is the one who simply can’t implement a sound organizational structure to save his life. It’s outrageous at this point, he just can’t do it. 
 

Dangit, now I’m being sucked into this rabbit hole. I’m going back to hiding. Everything is awesome, don’t listen to me, I’m an idiot! :ols: 
 

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get that side of it too.  I was speaking more from the fan side of things, where folks go cherry picking for tidbits to support whatever it was we currently have and downplay whoever goes.  It rarely bodes well for us.  


Yup, 100%, I’m with you. :) 

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CommanderInTheRye

CommanderInTheRye

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

What was the name of the bingo caller that was hired as defensive coordinator for the Redskins?  

 

 

In one week in 2009 with no transition whatsoever Sherm Lewis went from collecting social security and saying, “The next number is B-21, that’s B-21...” at the ladies auxillary bingo parlor on Wednesday’s to calling offensive plays for the Redskins on Sunday afternoons.

 

Dan Snyder at his finest.

 

 

image.jpeg.2aa83584431b9bb782c1277e19ec66e8.jpeg

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/ol-rickys-redskins-tales-bingo

 

 

 

”I think the Burgundy Revolution started with the Redskins hiring Sherman Lewis to help beleaguered coach Jim Zorn in 2009. Just days earlier, Lewis was retired and delivering meals on wheels and calling bingo games. Now he was an offensive consultant who quickly became the offensive play caller.”

 

 

 

 

Edited by TrancesWithWolves
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Number 44

Number 44

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

In one week in 2009 with no transition whatsoever Sherm Lewis went from collecting social security and saying, “The next number is B-21, that’s B-21” at the ladies auxillary bingo parlor on Wednesday’s to calling offensive plays for the Redskins on Sunday afternoons.

Should have known.  B-21 was a bad call.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Forget about giving Kyle Smith his due since he’s gone anyway... but this can’t sit well with the remnants of the scouting staff we still have in the building. Now, I doubt Ron is not giving them credit behind the scenes, but you never want to see that being stolen from them publicly. There are many reasons as to why that’s problematic, but I won’t get into that here for the sake of brevity. 
 

The other (bigger) issue with this is, it is indicative of how easy it is for people to misconstrue successes or not recognize sound processes when the structure is not defined properly or there’s too much vagueness there. The way it’s supposed to work is that scouts who put in all their time and effort towards evaluating talent present these players to coaches and get input on how they’ll fit (or not) in what the coaches are trying to do. Ideally, the head scout who is the expert at this particular job would then have final say over those decisions. Of course, that’s not what we’ve got going on here, but I digress. 

 

The above quote actually shows a semblance of a sound process taking place where that happened. Kyle and the scouts brought this player to their attention and the coaches responded positively. But the lack of this process being formalized structurally now results in that being minimized or completely omitted, at least publicly. 

 

Agree with most of your points but in Rivera's defense he didn't say anything about anyone getting full credit for any pick.  He just shared here and there stories about picks including the one you cited about Kyle which was a Rivera narrative ironically. 

 

He hasn't downplayed Kyle Smith from what I noticed at all even in his departure.  I do agree that some fans have a dramatic binary take of all of this -- Kyle good or bad, etc.

 

Personally I think Kyle is very good at his job but i am not panicked about him leaving either.  I'll give Rivera some rope to see how he does.    Not saying you are on the other side of this point.  Just sharing my take.  

 

As for the theories of some beat guys that the Bruce ties to Kyle hurt including one saying that Bruce has strong ties to the minority owners who are in a court battle with Dan -- it comes off that there is some backstory to this that might came out some later time.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/ron-rivera-not-hiring-kyle-smith-it-was-great-opportunity-start-fresh

“Kyle did a great job here, he really did. He did some really good things, he’d been part of some things that happened here. Just looking at it, I just thought it was an opportunity for us to go forward."

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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