2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I am going to be the only happy fan in Redskins land when they come away with Rondale and Trask with our first two picks.  They'll have won me back.

 

I like Rondale but in the first?  Do you mean Trask in the first?  

 

There is some other Trask fan here so you might not be alone.  I recall someone debating me on the QB thread where they were pushing Trask was better than Mac Jones.   

Edited April 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Rondale but in the first?  Do you mean Trask in the first?  

 

There is some other Trask fan here so you might not be alone.  I recall someone debating me on the QB thread where they were pushing Trask was better than Mac Jones.   

 

Rondale in the late 20s and something like Trask in the 50s or 60s.

 

Or even more controversial and shocking would just be Etienne at 19, and then moving up for Rondale and Trask with the next two picks.  The board would melt down before stalwartly talking themselves into liking the moves.

 

We've all pretty much built the consensus that Darrisaw is the guy who makes sense for us, so the other thing I see happening is we either use him to trade back with someone like Indy or just pass over him altogether for someone off the wall like Newsome.  There is just no way the thing that all of us want to happen will happen.

 

I'm not going to lie though, that Etienne, Rondale, Trask scenario that everyone would hate actually excites me quite a bit.  It's the absolutely common sense scenario of picking CFB stars that is somehow warped into completely unconventional decision making that will be widely panned by the absurdity of the pre draft process.  Then we get back to game time in the fall and are reminded that these dudes are good.

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Rondale in the late 20s and something like Trask in the 50s or 60s.

 

Or even more controversial and shocking would just be Etienne at 19, and then moving up for Rondale and Trask with the next two picks.  The board would melt down before stalwartly talking themselves into liking the moves.

 

We've all pretty much built the consensus that Darrisaw is the guy who makes sense for us, so the other thing I see happening is we either use him to trade back with someone like Indy or just pass over him altogether for someone off the wall like Newsome.  There is just no way the thing that all of us want to happen will happen.

 

I'm not going to lie though, that Etienne, Rondale, Trask scenario that everyone would hate actually excites me quite a bit.  It's the absolutely common sense scenario of picking CFB stars that is somehow warped into completely unconventional decision making that will be widely panned by the absurdity of the pre draft process.  Then we get back to game time in the fall and are reminded that these dudes are good.

 

 

I love Rondale, but I think there's a good chance he makes it to 51.  I figure the following are going to get picked ahead of him:

1). Chase

2). D. Smith

3). Waddle

4). E. Moore

5). Marshall

6). Toney

7). Bateman

 

We should be able to get one of those tier 2 WRs at 51.  

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Rondale in the late 20s and something like Trask in the 50s or 60s.

 

Or even more controversial and shocking would just be Etienne at 19, and then moving up for Rondale and Trask with the next two picks.  The board would melt down before stalwartly talking themselves into liking the moves.

 

We've all pretty much built the consensus that Darrisaw is the guy who makes sense for us, so the other thing I see happening is we either use him to trade back with someone like Indy or just pass over him altogether for someone off the wall like Newsome.  There is just no way the thing that all of us want to happen will happen.

 

I'm not going to lie though, that Etienne, Rondale, Trask scenario that everyone would hate actually excites me quite a bit.  It's the absolutely common sense scenario of picking CFB stars that is somehow warped into completely unconventional decision making that will be widely panned by the absurdity of the pre draft process.  Then we get back to game time in the fall and are reminded that these dudes are good.

 

I like Etienne, I wouldn't melt down but agree most here would.  I'd go Najee first if he was still there as for which RB I prefer.   I like Rondale but early first seems a bit rich for me.  I'd go Bateman before Rondale in the first if I am going WR.  I'd go Elijah and Marshall over him, too.  I wouldn't hate though Rondale if it were a trade down in the first.  So many good WRs in this draft.  There aren't really many players in the first that they could take that I'd hate.   Outside of taking Trask, tough for me to envision a player I'd dislike in the 2nd round either.  i have a lot of guys I like and i am not really dying so much for one over the other.  That's unusual for me.

 

I wouldn't like Trask but if they took in the third I'd swallow it and trust Zampese's insight to him.  I admit one of the big wildcards pro and con to develop a QB is their intangibles so if Zampese is proven to be genuinely sold on that then I'd go on that ride withour kicking or screaming.  The 2nd round seems rich to me.  Though I agree that QBs tend to go early so if they really want him they might have to do in the 2nd.

 

Yeah it does seem like the consensus on this thread is Darrisaw in the first.  For me, too.  Seems like both Keim and Standig think Darrisaw in the first might also be the team's preference.  It would get interesting if Darrisaw is gone.  i am and if recall you are along with some others here big Tevin Jenkins fans but he doesn't seem to have a consensus here.    Some like Zaven.  I think he will be there.  I'd be cool with it, wouldn't hate it.  I slightly prefer Jamin but its close for me.   There doesn't seem to be a consensus for Moehrig.  I don't love him at 19 but i like him and I'd be OK with it.  Some mocks have Bateman or Koramoah there.  I like both, neither would be my choice at 19 but wouldn't hate it. 

 

I haven't quantified it but off of the top of my head I'd guess most mocks right now at 19 are either:  Darrisaw, Koramoah, Bateman or Jenkins. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[seantaylor=god]

33 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Rondale in the late 20s and something like Trask in the 50s or 60s.

 

Or even more controversial and shocking would just be Etienne at 19, and then moving up for Rondale and Trask with the next two picks.  The board would melt down before stalwartly talking themselves into liking the moves.

 

We've all pretty much built the consensus that Darrisaw is the guy who makes sense for us, so the other thing I see happening is we either use him to trade back with someone like Indy or just pass over him altogether for someone off the wall like Newsome.  There is just no way the thing that all of us want to happen will happen.

 

I'm not going to lie though, that Etienne, Rondale, Trask scenario that everyone would hate actually excites me quite a bit.  It's the absolutely common sense scenario of picking CFB stars that is somehow warped into completely unconventional decision making that will be widely panned by the absurdity of the pre draft process.  Then we get back to game time in the fall and are reminded that these dudes are good.

I’d be melting down if we picked Rondale before the second round, for sure. I wouldn’t like Toney in the first either, based on his lack of development at WR, the rap stuff, and injuries, but at least he has legit NFL size.

 

Rondale Moore is fun to watch and plays tough but there just aren’t many successful WRs at his size- he’s barely 5”7. He also has the injuries. I’d want to explore converting him to a third down back like Mckissic and would draft him in the third. 
 

There are too many good options for me at WR to draft him in the first or second.

 

I don’t have anything against Etienne except for the position he plays.

 

If we love Trask, and see him as a starter, you have to trust it based on Zampese. If we like him and want him I’d have no issue with overdrafting him by a round to make sure you get him.

 

No matter who we pick if it’s a solid CB, OT,etc. I’ll be ok with it. Otherwise BPA.

 

I think my favorite scenario right now would be to trade out of the first, pick up another 2nd and a 1 next year. 

[mudhog]

27 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Rondale in the late 20s and something like Trask in the 50s or 60s.

 

Or even more controversial and shocking would just be Etienne at 19, and then moving up for Rondale and Trask with the next two picks.  The board would melt down before stalwartly talking themselves into liking the moves.

 

We've all pretty much built the consensus that Darrisaw is the guy who makes sense for us, so the other thing I see happening is we either use him to trade back with someone like Indy or just pass over him altogether for someone off the wall like Newsome.  There is just no way the thing that all of us want to happen will happen.

 

I'm not going to lie though, that Etienne, Rondale, Trask scenario that everyone would hate actually excites me quite a bit.  It's the absolutely common sense scenario of picking CFB stars that is somehow warped into completely unconventional decision making that will be widely panned by the absurdity of the pre draft process.  Then we get back to game time in the fall and are reminded that these dudes are good.

Obviously, nobody knows how it will play out yet but I have a pretty good feeling that we won't have to move up to the 2nd to get Trask. As of now, we could get him with #74 or #83 on the majority of boards. Not saying that things don't get cray-cray in the next 2 weeks and I end up eating my words, but I just don't get the love for Trask or Darnold here. Not dogging you Steve. You obviously see much more than I do with my limited evaluation methods.

On that matter, I always wondered over the past two decades of ES (first lurking for years then eventually becoming a member) if you or KD or SIP and the like don't ever get calls about your takes on certain players. Like Pez and Huley always being nn the field or near the booth on game days. Do ya'll just evaluate for the ES members? Or do you ever get a chance to bend an ear somewhere where it counts? I personally love the collective football acumen on this board. You old timers have taught me quite a bit about football over the years. Makes me miss the days of Bubba, Blondie and Hap. 

[redskinsrmylyfe]

I think this would be a great day one and two

[actorguy1]

1st round needs to be weighed slightly more BPA than need. I am now ok with any position as long as there's as much consensus as possible that the player is the BPA (if it's an edge, then a trade down should be in consideration).

[redskinsrmylyfe]

Edited April 12, 2021 by redskinsrmylyfe

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, mudhog said:

Obviously, nobody knows how it will play out yet but I have a pretty good feeling that we won't have to move up to the 2nd to get Trask. As of now, we could get him with #74 or #83 on the majority of boards. Not saying that things don't get cray-cray in the next 2 weeks and I end up eating my words, but I just don't get the love for Trask or Darnold here. Not dogging you Steve. You obviously see much more than I do with my limited evaluation methods.

On that matter, I always wondered over the past two decades of ES (first lurking for years then eventually becoming a member) if you or KD or SIP and the like don't ever get calls about your takes on certain players. Like Pez and Huley always being nn the field or near the booth on game days. Do ya'll just evaluate for the ES members? Or do you ever get a chance to bend an ear somewhere where it counts? I personally love the collective football acumen on this board. You old timers have taught me quite a bit about football over the years. Makes me miss the days of Bubba, Blondie and Hap. 

Been on board with ES since 2004.  Miss Bubba and Hap.  There always took the time to do the hard work and put ALL the WFT "R" articles out there for us to read.  Still my favorite forum board! 

[RWJ]

SIP or anyone give this a listen to:  

 

 

 

Just curious.   I am bandwidth limited on Hughesnet so I can't.  

[Jericho]

I found this excerpt interesting, particularly considering some of the discussion here:

 

Those in the media often report that certain names are “creeping up the draft boards” and drastic swings in opinions are commonplace in the weeks leading up to the draft. That really doesn’t happen inside NFL draft rooms. Usually, a team’s scouts all have their grades on players recorded by January. Some teams have draft meetings where all is known and boards are positioned in February. There is no such thing as “hype” or “buzz” that affects where a player sits on a team’s draft boards.

 

https://www.muellerfootball.com/post/draft-myths-the-draft-is-a-crap-shoot-right

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

 

Just curious.   I am bandwidth limited on Hughesnet so I can't.  

 

 

Here's what McElroy stated:

Kyle Trask - didn't start in high school, and didn't get a chance to start at Florida until Feleipe Franks got hurt. So not a ton of experience there. Pointed out that 2020 was the first year Trask entered the offseason as the presumptive starter, ever. And even that was a weird offseason due to COVID. Trask did make strides between junior and senior year and there may be untapped potential due to general lack of experience. Athletically limited and not a great arm. Made comparisons to Brad Johnson. Probably a 2nd-3rd round pick. Wide range of outcomes. Project QB.

Davis Mills - strong arm, but not much else was said.

Kellen Mond - nothing was said

Mac Jones - Doesn't think he'll go #3 or should. High floor, low ceiling type. Concern is that he was basically propped up by the talent. Interestingly, if Jones does go at #3, he'd be (tied for) the highest drafted Alabama player in Saban's era. Which would make him the "best" NFL prospect under Saban. Which doesn't make sense.

Trey Lance - unbelievable upside, but would be an overdraft at #3 or even Top 5.

Jamie Newman - thought he would a good fit for Washington. athletic with upside, but really a Day 3 pick time.

Justin Fields - felt Fields didn't make progress last year. But he was already good, so still a good prospect. But not worth Top 5.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

SIP or anyone give this a listen to:  

 

 

 

Just curious.   I am bandwidth limited on Hughesnet so I can't.  

Keim:

 

Lance - small sample, arm (mechanics better on pro day, raw, some inaccuracy

 

Fields - sometimes greedy - waiting for guys to get open and not hitting check downs (at least on time?), don’t judge him on Osu, no maturity issues like Haskins

 

There’s a linebacker they’d consider trading up for 

 

Moss - not better than what they have - Cantrell, Swoops, Baugh

Brantley- culture fit was the main issue, team wants youth for that spot

 

 

 

McElroy:

 

Trask:  Arrived FLA - raw ability, polished, but zero experience (didn’t start a game in HS or early College) or confidence.  Last year, became a difference maker.  Showed growth.  Feels like we’re on the verge of learning who he is - small limitations that make him unsure of making him the face of the franchise.  

Character - kudos for not transferring in HS or College.  Prep behind scene - took the job and ran with it - rare quality.  Little deliberate, showed improved command, accuracy always pretty good.  Better instincts this year, more willing to be a runner, moved in the pocket a little better.  More anticipation throwing (more confidence).

 

Limitations - not real twitchy, throwback athletically, limited arm strength (esp. for size).  Reminds him of Brad Johnson in terms of size/arm talent.  Little long in his release.  He’s a project - needs a year or maybe two before being ready to start.

—-

49ers went to Jones/Fields days - thinks it’s a smokescreen - going for Lance.  Going for upside.

Jones - looking at him at Alabama, comparison to an arch: is he part of foundation or is he the capstone?

—-

Thinks all 3 that can go 3rd are going to be over drafted.

—-

Lance - highest ceiling of 3, magnetic personality, great size/athleticism, makes good decisions with ball.

—-

If he was WAS, he’d take Newman day 3 - physical attributes he wants in a qb.  Needs work - nuance, layering football (always throwing line drives).  Could be the next Dak.

—-

Mills - arm/arm talent - potential franchise guy, but robotic

—-

Fields - didn’t see the growth in terms of trusting the throw from year 1 to 2.  Heard from people close that he’s an incredible kid.  Need to bounce back from mistakes.

 

@Jericho and that’s why I never do these things, lol

Edited April 12, 2021 by skinny21

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Keim:

 

Lance - small sample, arm (mechanics better on pro day, raw, some inaccuracy

 

Fields - sometimes greedy - waiting for guys to get open and not hitting check downs (at least on time?), don’t judge him on Osu, no maturity issues like Haskins

 

There’s a linebacker they’d consider trading up for 

 

Moss - not better than what they have - Cantrell, Swoops, Baugh

Brantley- culture fit was the main issue, team wants youth for that spot

 

 

 

To elabotare a little:

 

He doesn't think they'd trade up as aggressively as some purport.   But then he went on to say they would consider trading into the top 10 so in my mind that's plenty of aggressive.

 

WFT is expecting all five of the top QBs go into the top 10.  Along with Pitts and two tackles I presume Slater and Sewell. 

 

He hears that Atlanta in the end will likely hold onto their pick

 

He thinks they'd be willing to trade up into the top 10 for a QB.  My take on that is it sounds like it might be the #7 pick as I've speculated but Keim didn't say where in the top 10.

 

They really really like one of the QBs in the top 10 but he doesn't know whom, he doubts anyone else knows either because they are keeping it really tight to their vest.

 

Keim, an Ohio State almuni, has some connections there, says Fields is a better QB than Haskins.  Fields maturity >>>> Haskins.  So don't hit Fields with the Ohio State stuff.  Fields isn't Haskins.   Judge the player not the school. 

 

There is an offensive tackle and a linebacker that they like enough that they'd might be willing to trade up for.  Sounds like though not trade up that high for.  That was the 2nd time he's mentioned they'd trade up for Pitts if they had a chance to do it but that is likely unrealisitc

 

Thaddeus Moss:  they simply didn't think he was as good as the TEs on the roster.  Hinted a little about converting a WR, he made the point more heavily in a different podcast

 

He's hinted before they like Villaneuva in FA if they don't get a LT in the draft.  This time he outright said it. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

On that matter, I always wondered over the past two decades of ES (first lurking for years then eventually becoming a member) if you or KD or SIP and the like don't ever get calls about your takes on certain players. Like Pez and Huley always being nn the field or near the booth on game days. Do ya'll just evaluate for the ES members? Or do you ever get a chance to bend an ear somewhere where it counts? I personally love the collective football acumen on this board. You old timers have taught me quite a bit about football over the years. Makes me miss the days of Bubba, Blondie and Hap. 

 

Thanks, I am just playing around having fun.  It's fun for me to see anyone here give it a go.  I like reading everyone's take even when I disagree.  I used to read takes on these threads for years without trying it myself.  IMO is mostly about taking the time to watch the players.  Full games -- not highlights. If you watch a lot of players it becomes easier to compare.  Kyle Pitts is a good example for me.  I probably watched a good 75 TEs or so in the last 3 years, its been a spot I heavily watched.  Then I put on Pitts right before the college season and this was me watching the 2019 season (not the even more explosive 2020 season) and I couldn't keep my eyes off him.  He was so different than any TE I watched.  I recall commenting at the time this dude moves like a WR, his movement is incredible compared to what I've been watching at that spot. 

 

I used to really like reading Darrell Greenie player takes and he once in awhile would encourage me to watch it for myself.  The Greg McElroy mention because of Keim's podcast brings me back some on that front.  I recall Greenie debating this dude Atlanta fan.  Atlanta fan created his own QB model which made him swear by McElroy as being the next franchise QB and he slammed Cam Newton as not having it.  So Greenie who liked Newton, debated him on it.  😀. They had some entertaining-heated debates. 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Why is Keim leaking that they like Trask?  The only advantage I can think of in doing that is if you are smoke screening and trying to get a team you're trying to trade up with to lower their asking price.

[KDawg]

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

Obviously, nobody knows how it will play out yet but I have a pretty good feeling that we won't have to move up to the 2nd to get Trask. As of now, we could get him with #74 or #83 on the majority of boards. Not saying that things don't get cray-cray in the next 2 weeks and I end up eating my words, but I just don't get the love for Trask or Darnold here. Not dogging you Steve. You obviously see much more than I do with my limited evaluation methods.

On that matter, I always wondered over the past two decades of ES (first lurking for years then eventually becoming a member) if you or KD or SIP and the like don't ever get calls about your takes on certain players. Like Pez and Huley always being nn the field or near the booth on game days. Do ya'll just evaluate for the ES members? Or do you ever get a chance to bend an ear somewhere where it counts? I personally love the collective football acumen on this board. You old timers have taught me quite a bit about football over the years. Makes me miss the days of Bubba, Blondie and Hap. 

Only ears I bend are my own

 

But appreciate the love.

[Hitman#21]

Anyone listen to the Standing Pod where he gives his take on the Lance rumor? Thanks

[Going Commando]

12 hours ago, mudhog said:

On that matter, I always wondered over the past two decades of ES (first lurking for years then eventually becoming a member) if you or KD or SIP and the like don't ever get calls about your takes on certain players. Like Pez and Huley always being nn the field or near the booth on game days. Do ya'll just evaluate for the ES members? Or do you ever get a chance to bend an ear somewhere where it counts? I personally love the collective football acumen on this board. You old timers have taught me quite a bit about football over the years. Makes me miss the days of Bubba, Blondie and Hap.

 

Thanks for the high praise my friend.  Like KDawg and SIP said, this is just for fun.  It's like following the stock market for me, only in a sector I find interesting.  If I didn't have the lense of Washington fandom to do it through, I'm not sure I would enjoy it as much.  I don't have any pull or media contacts, and I'm not sure I would want to have influence even if I could have it.  Just being able to participate on this forum is just the right amount of grind for me to keep this a hobby without it gobbling up my free time.  If I had to be careful and consistent and devote even more time to film study or research, then it would stop feeling like a hobby and start feeling like an obligation, which would be a shame.

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Why is Keim leaking that they like Trask?  The only advantage I can think of in doing that is if you are smoke screening and trying to get a team you're trying to trade up with to lower their asking price.

 

It is strange.  Keim for starters is usually more revealing closer to the end.  His hints of players or a move often end up happening but its usually closer to the end and its not typically done in a billboard in your face fashion.

 

I can't recall him ever telegraphing so heavily for so long they like a specific player. So it might be a smokescreen, you never know.

 

His intel is typically really good.  His FA targets for example at WR ended up who they pursued.  But he didn't really nail all the WR targets until right before FA started.

 

I listened to his podcast today and in it he revealed that they are really keeping quiet which top QB they love that they'd be willing to trade up for.   In other words, they don't want other teams to know.  If so, conversely, you can argue that they are perfectly fine with other teams knowing they like Trask.

 

I also know Keim if very careful about doing right by his sources.  I've heard him speak about it.  So if he's talking about Trask I'd gather his sources are fine with him doing it. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Why is Keim leaking that they like Trask?  The only advantage I can think of in doing that is if you are smoke screening and trying to get a team you're trying to trade up with to lower their asking price.

Or if they are really settled one of the day 2 QB's, hoping one of the other teams in that boat takes Trask earlier to them off the board maybe? I like the McElroys take on my choice, Newman! He is my guy if they feel a need to take one of these guys.

 

There is still a lot of Tevin Jenkins buzz in the middle of the first round. I guess I continue to miss on him if those teams are looking for a LT.

 

With the Trask and Jenkin takes regarding WFT I hope they both are pure smoke screen.

 

I could see then trading up slightly if they loved Darrisaw and moved up a couple slots to grab him. That's about the trade up that makes sense to me.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Here’s my read on a trade up for a QB (Lance). 
 

WFT absolutely does not want to part with significant draft capital. My guess is they’ll do next year’s 1st but that’s it ... while also limiting how many picks are offered this year. So they’d need a QB to fall to a range where they could offer 1+3 and a 1 next year to make a move, which is probably around 7/8/9. Going anywhere higher likely requires the 51 pick and another 1 in 2023. So it makes sense. See how it plays out and if someone falls make an offer you feel isn’t “crippling”. 
 

Same could probably be said for any other position. Maybe they really like Sewell and would consider a similar trade up for him if he fell to that range. Assume the LB is Parsons. I gotta assume he’s gone by 10-12 because teams probably hve a much higher grade unchanged by character issues whereas all the other media boards factor in off field concerns. Teams will do checks and it’s black or white. You’re either good or not. And if there’s teams that are good with him, they’ll take him where his talent grades out. 
 

If Parsons falls to 15? Maybe we trade a 3 or 4 to move up and secure him. And maybe the same for Darrisaw although my guess is the OT they’d trade up for is Sewell if he slides. 
 

On Sewell ... If he slipped to #7 (he wont) I’d offer Detroit 1,3 and a 2022 1 to go get him. The value is absurd. Absolutely worth the 3 Picks to get an elite LT. 
 

Sewell, Friermuth would be a franchise defining haul if you could pull it off at 7/51. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[DWinzit]

If WFT found a way to get up to lets say 7 and take Lance and was able to keep pick 51, matching him up with Radunz would be pretty sweet. I like Cosmi and Eich better but doubt they survive to 51.

 

When was the last tie a team took a North Dakota State player in the 1st and 2nd? lol

[KDawg]

The only QB I’d trade up for us Fields at this point. Unless Lance falls to around 12ish, then I’d go get him. But to get to the top 10 I’d only go after Fields.

 

Lance has the tools to be great but there are enough question marks making a big trade a huge gamble.