2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

I recommend anyone doing an evaluation on Nico Collins pay special attention to his senior bowl tape over his 2019 tape. He’s changed his body and gotten more explosive. 
 

Anyone watching Bateman should make sure they watch last years tape and give it more weight than this years. 
 

Looks like Caleb Farley might be back in the 1st round discussion. 

 

 

 

Farley is such a gamble with multiple back injuries. And "ready for the season" and "long term healthy back" aren't necessarily the same thing. He's a major risk.

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Farley is such a gamble with multiple back injuries. And "ready for the season" and "long term healthy back" aren't necessarily the same thing. He's a major risk.

Yeah I consider him undraftable until like round 3. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Devin Thomas showed to be lazy from the jump.  Showing up to the first camp out of shape.   Unless i missed a story, Toney's work ethic hasn't been challenged.  He wouldn't be the only dude in the NFL with a hobby.

 

I honestly can't remember Devin Thomas stories/narrative from his rookie season with us.   So new news to me he showed up out of shape...yay Snyder/Cerrato.  I just remember reading a year or two later that some thought he spent more of his time inside his own music studio than working on his craft.  I did hear a few stories about him working out so hard he puked.  To the point where one player said he tried talking to him about changing how he worked out since it wasn't beneficial and he shouldn't be going so hard he's puking afterwards.

[Fresh8686]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Farley is such a gamble with multiple back injuries. And "ready for the season" and "long term healthy back" aren't necessarily the same thing. He's a major risk.

Well, in that tweet or whatever the key part was the diagnosis that it is not Chronic by NFL doctors. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

I recommend anyone doing an evaluation on Nico Collins pay special attention to his senior bowl tape over his 2019 tape. He’s changed his body and gotten more explosive. 
 

 

 

 

I am intrigued by Nico Collins.  He has things to work on.  He's not one of my top favorites.  But for me he is in that next class with guys like T. Wallace, A. Rodgers.  

 

I've seen Patterson play live with Collins.  Patterson was beyond atrocious.  So I am with PFF's point to factor the poor QB play he got in the soup. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-five-wide-receiver-prospects-unfavorable-college-situations

WR NICO COLLINS, MICHIGAN

PFF Big Board Rank: 150

Almost the entirety of Collins’ career coincided with Shea Patterson’s two years at Michigan in 2018 and 2019. The Patterson-led passing offense did no favors for Collins. Patterson’s 50.7% accurate pass rate across those two campaigns ranked 58th among 65 quarterbacks to have at least 500 passes charted. Over 25% of the passes targeting Collins were labeled “uncatchable,” and you have to remember that Collins isn’t a difficult target to hit.

Here are a few of Collins' notable measurements from his recent Pro Day: 

• Height: 6-foot-4 (93rd percentile)
• Weight: 215 pounds (82nd percentile)
• Arms: 34 inches (97th percentile)
• Vertical jump: 38 inches (74th percentile)
• Broad jump: 125 inches (76th percentile)

That makes for an impressive catch radius. Add in low 4.4-second speed, and you have the makings of an intriguing mid-round target with legitimate developmental traits. Collins has shown the ability to win vertically with that size and athleticism, including on this rep against Oklahoma cornerback Tre Brown in Mobile. 

 

Pair him with a quarterback who provides opportunities to make plays on those downfield passes, and a team could end up with one of those receivers who leaves us wondering how he fell so far in the draft.

6 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I honestly can't remember Devin Thomas stories/narrative from his rookie season with us.   So new news to me he showed up out of shape...yay Snyder/Cerrato.  I just remember reading a year or two later that some thought he spent more of his time inside his own music studio than working on his craft.  I did hear a few stories about him working out so hard he puked.  To the point where one player said he tried talking to him about changing how he worked out since it wasn't beneficial and he shouldn't be going so hard he's puking afterwards.

 

Yeah Zorn complained publicly that he and Kelly showed up to their first camp out of shape.  I didn't hear that again about any player until Ryan Anderson.  Anderson owned up to it later on.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Preston Smith was a nice pick....Fred Smoot threw nice boat parties in Minnesota. 

Trent Murphy has hung around in the league. 

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Just listened to Standig who IMO is the 2nd most plugged in guy to the team especially when it comes to the draft after Keim.

 

He said he poked around on this and alluded to not being sure that Lance would be their target.   Sheehan than chimed in that he thought it would be Fields.  Sheehan as we know over a month ago said that he heard they really like Fields. 

 

Keim seems skepitical than Lombardi knows their QB target in the first because they are really tight on this information.  Sounds similar to SF where apparently the only two people in that organization who know what they are leaning to do is Shanny and Lynch. 

 

All this Keim talk which he repeats again and again about Fields isn't Haskins.  And Sheehan saying he knows unlike Haskins they have heard good things about Fields leadership and maturity.  Why bother with the Haskins/Fields stuff?  Seems like its maybe them justifying that it would be different. 

 

Feels like Fields to me.  Who knows.  But for me its going to make the top 10 more interesting than I originally thought.  My gut is no trade happens.  But the vibe seems to be if the board breaks in a certain way its not impossible.

 

My guess now would be Atlanta takes a QB or Pitts versus trades down.  Cincy typically doesn't trade down and are supposedly telling that they won't trade down this time either.  Miami traded back up to #6 for a reason so it would be strange for them to trade down again.  So #7 is the pivot point if there is a QB left.  Lions have supposedly told teams their pick is for sale if they get a good offer.  

I don't see a trade up either unless a player falls and when a player falls there may be something going on with that player.  Keim and Standig both have been chiming about a QB in the 2nd rounds and I believe 3rd too.  One being Mills the other Trask.  I am thinking those are the WFT's targets at QB.  

[Est.1974]

God I hope Jones goes #3 to the 49ers. 
 

Fields, Lance, probably the #3 LT will be in reach with a reasonable trade up.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me.  I don't care that NFL.com compares him to Doctson.  IMO the comparison is ridiculous.  They do have one thing in common which is they were both really good at contested catches.  But Marshall's IMO main skill is he's fast, can seperate and make plays deep -- that's certainly not Doctson's wheel house.  Doctson to me if he hit his potential would be Dez Bryant -- a physical contested catch guy.

 

I loved Doctson as a prospect, but was clearly blind to his flaws.  I don't think Doctson had Dez's innate physicality.  And while Dez struggled a bit with his initial move, he was surprisingly good with longer developing double moves.

 

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Why do you think he's a Z only especially if you got concerns about him against press?  He busted out in a big way playing in the slot last season.  I've said I like him at Z in the past so I get that perspective but I definitely believe he can play slot.  Bateman can play in the slot too IMO but I also prefer him at Z. 

 

I think that was mostly against off and zone coverage though.  He was always the back guy in a WR stack to give him a cleaner release.  When I say Z only, I mean like majority of the time Z.  Everyone in the NFL has to line up everywhere to give defenses different looks.  If he's in the slot, I think his route tree has to be more limited.  Like anything in-breaking is gone unless it's a Post or Deep Dig.  He could work well running clearing routes from the Slot, defenses would have to respect him on those.  Anything with him trying to catch the ball in traffic around linebackers is no good.  But at Z, it gives Marshall a bit more space to get his legs going.  I think he'd struggle as a rookie at X, he'd get jammed up far too often.

 

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lf I recall you aren't too high on Bateman, Brevin Jordan.  I think you were the one who slammed Nico Collins but maybe I am misrecalling?   N. Collins to me would be closer stylistically to Doctson than Marshall but i don't love that comparison either.  If I recall you like Tremble as I do.  Who do you like at WR within the range of our picks?

 

Yup, that's me.

 

Rough guesses for where I've got some guys right now.  Amari Rodgers in the 3rd round, he's a work in progress but think he's got a lot of room to grow.  I need to watch more of Dyami Brown, but maybe him too.  Elijah Moore's draft value has risen too much, but it was absolutely him in the 2nd round.  Tylan Wallace round 3, like our later 3rd rounder though.

 

Not high on Rondale Moore.  But supposedly I watched games where he was trying to play through injuries.

[Darth Tater]

20 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Preston Smith was a nice pick....Fred Smoot threw nice boat parties in Minnesota. 

Trent Murphy has hung around in the league. 

Thing is, albeit Smoot did come back, only Rocky got a second contract after the rookie deal and not because they got a crazy offer.  Rocky only got a 1 year deal. Smith was probably the only one I'd have to think they should have gone after.

[Fresh8686]

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Here's my update R1 Mock (I carried it 2 rounds, so I'll let you know who WFT gets). Didn't mean to go ATL trade heavy, but I do feel like they'll do whatever they can do load up on draft capital to overcome their cap issues in the next few years. It's nearly impossible to do these and predict the right trades, but these didn't feel forced.

 

TRADES:

Atlanta sends 1.4 to DAL for 1.10, 2.44, 3.75 and a 2022 2nd

Atlanta sends 1.10 to NE for 1.15, 3.96 and a 2022 2nd

Atlanta sends 2.35, 3.68 to WFT for 1.19

Atlanta sends 2.44 and 3.96 to GB for 1.29

WFT sends 3.68, 4.124, 7.246 to CHI for 2.52

 

Atlanta essentially turns their 1st 2nd and 3rd this year into #15, 19, 29, a mid-3rd (75) and a 2022 1st and 2nd

 

1. JAX - Trevor Lawrence, QB Clemson

2. NYJ - Zach Wilson, QB BYU

3. SF - Mac Jones, QB Alabama

4. DAL - Kyle Pitts, TE Florida

5. CIN - Penei Sewell, OT Oregon

6. MIA - Jamar Chase, WR LSU

7. DET - Jaylen Waddle, WR Alabama

8. CAR - Rashawn Slater, OT Northwestern

9. DEN - Justin Fields, QB Ohio State

10. NE - Trey Lance, QB NDSU

11. NYG - Micah Parsons, LB PSU

12. PHI - Devonta Smith, WR Alabama

13. LAC - Christian Darrisaw, OT Virginia Tech

14. MIN - Austin Vera-Tucker, T/G USC

15. ATL - Azeez Ojulari, Edge Georgia

16. ARI - Patrick Surtain, CB Alabama

17. LV - Teven Jenkins, T/G Oklahoma State

18. MIA - Jaelen Phillips, Edge Miami

19. ATL - Jaycee Horn, CB South Carolina

20. CHI - Rashod Bateman, WR Minnesota

21. IND - Caleb Farley, CB Virginia Tech

22. TEN - Kadarius Toney, WR Florida

23. NY Jets - Kwity Paye, Edge Michigan

24. PIT - Samuel Cosmi, OT Texas

25. JAX - Terrace Marshall, WR LSU

26. CLE - Christian Barmore, IDL Alabama

27. BAL - Trevon Moehrig, S TCU

28. NO - Elijah Moore, WR Ole Miss

29. ATL - Najee Harris, RB Alabama

30. BUF - Greg Newsome, CB Northwestern

31. KC - Jalen Mayfield, OT Michigan

32. TB - Landon Dickerson, IOL Alabama

 

WFT ends up with picks 35 (ATL), 52 (CHI) for 1(19), 4(124) and 7(246). I cut the draft after 2 rounds, but still had 3.74, 3.82, 5th and 7th rounders to go.

 

35: Pat Friermuth, TE Penn State

51: Alex Leatherwood, OT Alabama

52: Jabril Cox, LB LSU

Edited April 12, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[JoggingGod]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Here's my update R1 Mock (I carried it 2 rounds, so I'll let you know who WFT gets). Didn't mean to go ATL trade heavy, but I do feel like they'll do whatever they can do load up on draft capital to overcome their cap issues in the next few years.

 

TRADES:

Atlanta sends 1.4 to DAL for 1.10, 2.44, 3.75 and a 2022 2nd

Atlanta sends 1.10 to NE for 1.15, 3.96 and a 2022 2nd

Atlanta sends 2.35, 3.68 to WFT for 1.19

Atlanta sends 2.44 and 3.96 to GB for 1.29

WFT sends 3.68, 4.124, 7.246 to CHI for 2.52

 

Atlanta essentially turns their 1st 2nd and 3rd this year into #15, 19, 29, a mid-3rd (75) and a 2022 1st and 2nd

1. JAX - Trevor Lawrence, QB Clemson

2. NYJ - Zach Wilson, QB BYU

3. SF - Mac Jones, QB Alabama

4. DAL - Kyle Pitts, TE Florida

5. CIN - Penei Sewell, OT Oregon

6. MIA - Jamar Chase, WR LSU

7. DET - Jaylen Waddle, WR Alabama

8. CAR - Rashawn Slater, OT Northwestern

9. DEN - Justin Fields, QB Ohio State

10. NE - Trey Lance, QB NDSU

11. NYG - Micah Parsons, LB PSU

12. PHI - Devonta Smith, WR Alabama

13. LAC - Christian Darrisaw, OT Virginia Tech

14. MIN - Austin Vera-Tucker, T/G USC

15. ATL - Azeez Ojulari, Edge Georgia

16. ARI - Patrick Surtain, CB Alabama

17. LV - Teven Jenkins, T/G Oklahoma State

18. MIA - Jaelen Phillips, Edge Miami

19. ATL - Jaycee Horn, CB South Carolina

20. CHI - Rashod Bateman, WR Minnesota

21. IND - Caleb Farley, CB Virginia Tech

22. TEN - Kadarius Toney, WR Florida

23. NY Jets - Kwity Paye, Edge Michigan

24. PIT - Samuel Cosmi, OT Texas

25. JAX - Terrace Marshall, WR LSU

26. CLE - Christian Barmore, IDL Alabama

27. BAL - Trevon Moehrig, S TCU

28. NO - Elijah Moore, WR Ole Miss

29. ATL - Najee Harris, RB Alabama

30. BUF - Greg Newsome, CB Northwestern

31. KC - Jalen Mayfield, OT Michigan

32. TB - Landon Dickerson, IOL Alabama

 

WFT ends up with picks 35 (ATL), 52 (CHI) for 1(19), 4(124) and 7(246). I cut the draft after 2 rounds, but still had #74 and #82 to go.

 

35: Pat Friermuth, TE Penn State

51: Alex Leatherwood, OT Alabama

52: Jabril Cox, LB LSU

Massive L. We came away with three okay prospects and nobody that special.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Massive L. We came away with three okay prospects and nobody that special.

 

Interesting take. I think getting a LT, TE and LB is a pretty solid takeaway. Obviously you never know how guys will pan out but I feel good about those 3 coming in and being high-end starters early into their rookie contracts.

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Massive L. We came away with three okay prospects and nobody that special.

Yeah for real. Everyone is obsessed with trading down but you end up taking a bunch of "meh" players at best. 

 

I'd honestly rather trade up then trade down.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah for real. Everyone is obsessed with trading down but you end up taking a bunch of "meh" players at best. 

 

I'd honestly rather trade up then trade down.

 

Fascinating. I guess I have a different opinion on those 3 than you two do. I buy more into Leatherwood's blue chip talent. And Friermuth is a stud. After him and Jordan there's a precipitous drop-off at TE.

 

I guess you would have preferred that I take Bateman, Cosmi or Zaven Collins, or Najee at 19? Those were the BPAs. And i view Friermuth and Leatherwood to be roughly in that batch of players ranked 20-45.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Fascinating. I guess I have a different opinion on those 3 than you two do. I buy more into Leatherwood's blue chip talent. And Friermuth is a stud. After him and Jordan there's a precipitous drop-off at TE.

 

I guess you would have preferred that I take Bateman, Cosmi or Zaven Collins, or Najee at 19? Those were the BPAs. And i view Friermuth and Leatherwood to be roughly in that batch of players ranked 20-45.

I don’t love Cox, especially in the second round, for this defense. Third or lower? Yes. Leatherwood I like. Freiermuth would be a need pick up and the best overall tight end in the draft but I still feel really underwhelmed with that trade scenario and I think it’s the Cox part. 

[Lovi]

In this scenario we also lose the option of the 5th year.  Which we all know is WFT's first Franchise Tag year.  I don't think i'd mind a trade down per se, but i'm not digging the guys we ended up with in that scenario as our best take-aways.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Lovi
sp fix

[JamesMadisonSkins]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t love Cox, especially in the second round, for this defense. Third or lower? Yes. Leatherwood I like. Freiermuth would be a need pick up and the best overall tight end in the draft but I still feel really underwhelmed with that trade scenario and I think it’s the Cox part. 

 

That's fair. I like Cox, but you know more about the fits on this defense, so I'll take your opinion on it.

[JoggingGod]

26 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Interesting take. I think getting a LT, TE and LB is a pretty solid takeaway. Obviously you never know how guys will pan out but I feel good about those 3 coming in and being high-end starters early into their rookie contracts.

The odds of all 3 of them being high end starters are low, especially a TE taken in round 2. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

What are the changes this Mac Jones buzz is all for nothing. What if, SF goes with Fields or Lance, and Jones tumbles down the boards? I could actually see it happening. Maybe the stop happens with NE? If you pencil in Fields or Lance at #3 it does change a lot of projections that have been out there since the trade went down, and it's hard to see where exactly Jones fits if he slides.

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t love Cox, especially in the second round, for this defense. Third or lower? Yes. Leatherwood I like. Freiermuth would be a need pick up and the best overall tight end in the draft but I still feel really underwhelmed with that trade scenario and I think it’s the Cox part. 

Replace Freiermuth with Jamin Davis, and Cox with Rondale Moore and I'd be happy. This offense would be stupid fast. 

[Lovi]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

What are the changes this Mac Jones buzz is all for nothing. What if, SF goes with Fields or Lance, and Jones tumbles down the boards? I could actually see it happening. Maybe the stop happens with NE? If you pencil in Fields or Lance at #3 it does change a lot of projections that have been out there since the trade went down, and it's hard to see where exactly Jones fits if he slides.

 

It would have to in my mind.  I think he still goes Rd. 1 but as long as no trades happen and Lance/Fields are both gone I think NE is the big spot.  He gets past NE he may tumble.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

The odds of all 3 of them being high end starters are low, especially a TE taken in round 2. 

 

Wait, what? This makes no sense. Are you saying that you can only find high-end TE starters in Round 1? Or are you saying the opposite, which is TE is such a crapshoot you should just keep using 3-5th round picks on them until you hit your pick? Because Kelce (3rd), Kittle (5th), Andrews (3rd), Darren Waller (6th), Tonyan (UDFA), Jonnu Smith (3rd), Hunter Henry (2nd) ... compared to OJ Howard, TJ Hockenson, Noah Fant, Evan Engram, Hayden Hurst ... all 1st rounders ....

 

I would actually say maybe Friermuth is an overdraft there given the recent results of the drafting of TE, but I think he's got some legit talent and would be a BPA+Need at that point.

Edited April 12, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins