2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The only QB I’d trade up for us Fields at this point. Unless Lance falls to around 12ish, then I’d go get him. But to get to the top 10 I’d only go after Fields.

 

Lance has the tools to be great but there are enough question marks making a big trade a huge gamble. 

 

Just listened to Standig who IMO is the 2nd most plugged in guy to the team especially when it comes to the draft after Keim.

 

He said he poked around on this and alluded to not being sure that Lance would be their target.   Sheehan than chimed in that he thought it would be Fields.  Sheehan as we know over a month ago said that he heard they really like Fields. 

 

Keim seems skepitical than Lombardi knows their QB target in the first because they are really tight on this information.  Sounds similar to SF where apparently the only two people in that organization who know what they are leaning to do is Shanny and Lynch. 

 

All this Keim talk which he repeats again and again about Fields isn't Haskins.  And Sheehan saying he knows unlike Haskins they have heard good things about Fields leadership and maturity.  Why bother with the Haskins/Fields stuff?  Seems like its maybe them justifying that it would be different. 

 

Feels like Fields to me.  Who knows.  But for me its going to make the top 10 more interesting than I originally thought.  My gut is no trade happens.  But the vibe seems to be if the board breaks in a certain way its not impossible.

 

My guess now would be Atlanta takes a QB or Pitts versus trades down.  Cincy typically doesn't trade down and are supposedly telling that they won't trade down this time either.  Miami traded back up to #6 for a reason so it would be strange for them to trade down again.  So #7 is the pivot point if there is a QB left.  Lions have supposedly told teams their pick is for sale if they get a good offer.  

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Hitman#21 said:

Anyone listen to the Standing Pod where he gives his take on the Lance rumor? Thanks

 

Its tough for me to seperate one pod and radio segment from another but I listen to all of Sheehan's podcasts and almost all of his radio segments.

 

His overall take is he doesn't think they trade up.  He's not shooting down the rumor, its just that he doesn't think the stars would align for them to do it.  He said this morning he'd guess Fields as the target.  He does think that trading up is seriously on the table.  He said previously he didn't think so but now believes it can go down.  But in the end it doesn't happen. 

 

He doesn't rule out Fitzpatrick as being the solution for two seasons -- suggesting people might be surprised by what he will do here.  He thinks he will be the most prolific QB we've had since peak Kirk Cousins.   I am with Sheehan on that.  I think Fitzpatrick is a good QB.    I disagree with Sheehan about Darnold but I am with him on being high on Fitzpatrick.  Will see. 

[Chump Bailey]

Get your popcorn ready gents. This draft is going to be an interesting one. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Chump Bailey

[Skinsinparadise]

Rodgers doesn't get much hype I notice here aside from @KDawg.  I say something on occasion, maybe i am missing others on him, too.  But I am thinking as much as we talk about YAC with Toney, R. Moore, etc.  i doubt we take either one and instead don't hit up receiver into the third-forth round. 

 

If so Amari IMO is the top of that next tier with his ball in his hands.  He doesn't have Toney's or R. Moore's insane stop and go ability.  But Amari is fun to watch with the ball in his hands, he's so physical, a bowling ball. 

 

PFF mentions Schwartz.  Schwartz is really raw IMO and not really a break tackle kind of receiver as for YAC from what i've watched but that dude could really fly -- incredibly fast with some wiggle, too.  I wouldn't take Schwartz high.  I like Rodgers better.  But I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Schwartz in the later rounds if he is still there.   

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rodgers doesn't get much hype I notice here aside from @KDawg.  I say something on occasion.  But I am thinking as much as we talk about YAC with Toney, R. Moore, etc.  i doubt we take either one and instead don't hit up receiver into the third-forth round. 

 

If so Amari IMO is the top of that next tier with his ball in his hands.  He doesn't have Toney's or R. Moore's insane stop and go ability.  But Amari is fun to watch with the ball in his hands, he's so physical, a bowling ball. 

I am a big Amari fan. His measurables and speed don't do his play justice. If you watch him play, you know he can be an it guy. IMO he has the best hands in the daft and is one of the best at getting open and with the ball in his hands. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I am a big Amari fan. His measurables and speed don't do his play justice. If you watch him play, you know he can be an it guy. IMO he has the best hands in the daft and is one of the best at getting open and with the ball in his hands. 

 

His measures weren't up there with some of the higher touted prospects.  I think that might help him end up in the 4th round.  He's not lightening fast.  4.52 though I think is fine for the way he plays. 

[Warhead36]

It wouldn't surprise me if we liked both Fields and Lance. Both fit the mold of the mobile and athletic QB that Rivera/Turner seem to want.

 

I just don't see us moving all the way up to 4 and Fields won't drop past 4(if the 9ers don't take him someone else will move up to 4 to take him). I think the only QB play we have is hope Lance falls to like 7 or 8.

[Skinsinparadise]

Doubt they do Pitts but imagine him and Kittle on the same field, they'd be running 12 all the time

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am aware that he's raw and I am aware of the background stuff. On the surface its nothing crazy.  It's not like Parsons.  He had one incident on campus that was minor.  Some concerns about Toney's pursuit of a music career that reminds me some of D. Jax. 

 

Also I listened to a guy who covered him at UF who loves him and said he worked like a maniac to really develop over time as a player and brings a lot of energy to that sideline -- good teammate, etc.

 

What about Devin Thomas?  1 good year in college.  Once he got money he had a music studio built in his home, and that's where he put his creative efforts.  He was a workout demon, and was known for working out crazy hard until he puked.  I think he had a longer career as a special teamer than he did as a receiver.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Why is Keim leaking that they like Trask?  The only advantage I can think of in doing that is if you are smoke screening and trying to get a team you're trying to trade up with to lower their asking price.

 

Keim's info doesn't have to be coming from WFT though.  It could be coming from someone Keim knows/talked to at UF.  It could be coming from the "QB coach" Trask is working with pre-draft.  Hell, it could come from a player that is training with Trask that told Keim that Trask mentioned having a 5th zoom call with WFT the other day.  So, if WFT is having five zoom calls with a player...Keim could deduce that WFT must like Trask.  The 5 zoom calls is made up to make the point.

 

 

 

or it's a smokescreen put out by the team via Keim...

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Finally got around to watching some of Terrace Marshall.  Just checked nfl.com and they compare him to Josh Doctson.  Ouch.

 

I think he's a Z only, like Bateman.  That works with this team since we've got Curtis Samuel who should be getting 50/50 reps at Z and Slot.  He's not an X at all, which is ok since we've got McLaurin.  But that reduces his value.  I don't feel comfortable with where he's mocked in the 1st round, but for the 2nd round, sure.  I think I like Marshall more than Bateman.  Although I do worry about his ability to beat press.

 

In college he faced a lot of off-coverage and zone, and ate those up.  They also hid him by having him be the back guy in a stack.  A few times he faced press and it seemed like he didn't really know what to do.  He looks like he's ran a few routes against man and did well, but he's also ran a few routes where he seems surprised the corner is tracking him instead of dropping into zone.  Some awkward full extension push offs that might get flagged in the NFL.

 

He's not physical, not a run blocker.  He kind of gets abused and on occasion trucked by DB's while run blocking.  He can bounce back and be more physical the next rep, but it's clear on run plays he usually takes the play off.

 

LSU's offense didn't show what I wanted to see from Marshall.  They had him in the slot running 4 yard outs/slants/etc far too often.  From the glimpses of routes past the sticks (that aren't just Go routes), he looks like he's got some good potential.  I think he needs the right coaching/scheme and not just any coach/scheme to make his skillset work in the NFL well enough until he develops.  Having McLaurin and Samuel will help his development a lot.  Give him opportunities where he doesn't have NFL caliber press coverage in his face.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

15 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

or it's a smokescreen put out by the team via Keim...

 

I'm thinking smokescreen.  Someone say if this makes sense...

 

We've got two beatwriters that don't just say stuff in Keim and Standig.  And both of them are adamant the team likes different QB's.  Trask and Mills.  Seems odd that Keim and Standig would have those differing positions unless the team did it on purpose.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Finally got around to watching some of Terrace Marshall.  Just checked nfl.com and they compare him to Josh Doctson.  Ouch.

 

I think he's a Z only, like Bateman.  That works with this team since we've got Curtis Samuel who should be getting 50/50 reps at Z and Slot.  He's not an X at all, which is ok since we've got McLaurin.  But that reduces his value.  I don't feel comfortable with where he's mocked in the 1st round, but for the 2nd round, sure.  I think I like Marshall more than Bateman.  Although I do worry about his ability to beat press.

 

In college he faced a lot of off-coverage and zone, and ate those up.  They also hid him by having him be the back guy in a stack.  A few times he faced press and it seemed like he didn't really know what to do.  He looks like he's ran a few routes against man and did well, but he's also ran a few routes where he seems surprised the corner is tracking him instead of dropping into zone.  Some awkward full extension push offs that might get flagged in the NFL.

 

He's not physical, not a run blocker.  He kind of gets abused and on occasion trucked by DB's while run blocking.  He can bounce back and be more physical the next rep, but it's clear on run plays he usually takes the play off.

 

LSU's offense didn't show what I wanted to see from Marshall.  They had him in the slot running 4 yard outs/slants/etc far too often.  From the glimpses of routes past the sticks (that aren't just Go routes), he looks like he's got some good potential.  I think he needs the right coaching/scheme and not just any coach/scheme to make his skillset work in the NFL well enough until he develops.  Having McLaurin and Samuel will help his development a lot.  Give him opportunities where he doesn't have NFL caliber press coverage in his face.

I’m not a Marshall fan myself. Drops too many passes. I see his upside and potential but I don’t like him before the 4th. Many here disagree with that take, though.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What about Devin Thomas?  1 good year in college.  Once he got money he had a music studio built in his home, and that's where he put his creative efforts.  He was a workout demon, and was known for working out crazy hard until he puked.  I think he had a longer career as a special teamer than he did as a receiver.

 

 

Devin Thomas showed to be lazy from the jump.  Showing up to the first camp out of shape.   Unless i missed a story, Toney's work ethic hasn't been challenged.  He wouldn't be the only dude in the NFL with a hobby.

 

i am pretty good at what i do at my job. But, I got hobbies including posting here.  It would be like me and you being judged as having the same drawback at our jobs by someone else because we both post at extremeskins.  Maybe we are identical at our jobs.  But I doubt it.  Or at a minimum there would be likely some nuance that would seperate how I do my job and you do yours in spite of how we both enjoy football.   I guess you can say that Toney could turn his hobby into a career but its really rare for athletes to become music stars

 

I recall Bernie Williams from the Yankeees who had a really serious music hobby turned it into something after his career but nothing major.   And if it detracted from his game as an athlete, it didn't show.  He had a great career.  Toney seems to imply his music keeps him feeling relaxed-balanced.  Who are we to say he's wrong?  I'd leave it for the team to judge.  I know you are agreeing the team to judge it but it sounds like your judgment from afar is that its a major red flag.  My opinion on it is I don't know. I don't feel negative or positive on it but agree the team should probe on it.   

 

Actually your post suggesting Toney would be too much for this team to figure out in a COVID off season -- made me a little higher on Toney because the truth is more likely the opposite.   I don't mean it sarcastically.  I didn't really think about fleshing out this point either until your post pushed me to do it.   But it got me thinking, the UF players are one team where the team has rare first-hand insight.  Zampese was at UF the year before he came here.  He knows those players.  He knows their head coach well.   He's commented on the UF players from the time he was there including Toney.

 

So the fact that they are interviewing Toney and i believe its the 2nd one -- to me is proof that they likely don't have major red flags about Toney.  Or if they did they must be so tantalized by his talent that they'd overlook it and want to probe more.  I'd bet on the former not the later considering how much Rivera seems to stress character and work ethic.    My point is I bet money Zampese has already endorsed Toney otherwise why bother spending time interviewing him?  And Zamepse dealt with Toney in the building and appears to be close with Mullen -- So Zampese likely knows a heck more about Toney than you or I or the average mock drafter. 

 

Is Toney the guy I want?  Nope.  Wouldn't hate it though.  But I think he'd be one of the rare players that would be properly vetted by our FO that I'd trust if they chased him. 

 

https://www.alligator.org/article/2020/09/future-is-bright-for-toney-following-his-evolution

The work paid off. Coaches say his routes are sharp and that his work ethic allows him to function in multiple roles within the offense. While the coaching staff hold the cards as they decide the gameplan, Toney’s ability to flourish within the flow of the offense might be too alluring to pass up. 

“He's a very, very intelligent player that understands coverage,” Johnson said. “He's an amazing athlete that's really fun to watch play football."

 

https://floridagators.com/news/2020/11/6/football-kadarious-toney-floridas-running-rapping-receiver.aspx

"I will say the music actually keeps me balanced and it helps me express how I feel about things and get in touch with other people,'' he said. "I've seen my music touch people and affect them in a positive way. That keeps me motivated and neutral about a lot of things."

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Finally got around to watching some of Terrace Marshall.  Just checked nfl.com and they compare him to Josh Doctson.  Ouch.

 

I think he's a Z only, like Bateman.  That works with this team since we've got Curtis Samuel who should be getting 50/50 reps at Z and Slot.  He's not an X at all, which is ok since we've got McLaurin.  But that reduces his value.  I don't feel comfortable with where he's mocked in the 1st round, but for the 2nd round, sure.  I think I like Marshall more than Bateman.  Although I do worry about his ability to beat press.

 

LSU's offense didn't show what I wanted to see from Marshall.  They had him in the slot running 4 yard outs/slants/etc far too often.  From the glimpses of routes past the sticks (that aren't just Go routes), he looks like he's got some good potential.  I think he needs the right coaching/scheme and not just any coach/scheme to make his skillset work in the NFL well enough until he develops.  Having McLaurin and Samuel will help his development a lot.  Give him opportunities where he doesn't have NFL caliber press coverage in his face.

 

For me.  I don't care that NFL.com compares him to Doctson.  IMO the comparison is ridiculous.  They do have one thing in common which is they were both really good at contested catches.  But Marshall's IMO main skill is he's fast, can seperate and make plays deep -- that's certainly not Doctson's wheel house.  Doctson to me if he hit his potential would be Dez Bryant -- a physical contested catch guy.

 

Why do you think he's a Z only especially if you got concerns about him against press?  He busted out in a big way playing in the slot last season.  I've said I like him at Z in the past so I get that perspective but I definitely believe he can play slot.  Bateman can play in the slot too IMO but I also prefer him at Z. 

 

lf I recall you aren't too high on Bateman, Brevin Jordan.  I think you were the one who slammed Nico Collins but maybe I am misrecalling?   N. Collins to me would be closer stylistically to Doctson than Marshall but i don't love that comparison either.  If I recall you like Tremble as I do.  Who do you like at WR within the range of our picks?

Edited April 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I keep saying I have a hard time finding a guy they take at 19 which I'd hate.  I stand corrected, this pick I would hate at 19.   To me Mayfield is a late 2nd round talent not a mid first rounder. 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I keep saying I have a hard time finding a guy they take at 19 which I'd hate.  I stand corrected, this pick I would hate at 19.   To me Mayfield is a late 2nd round talent not a mid first rounder. 

 

 

 

A right tackle at 19... and possibly the third for fourth best RT... that’s a disaster.

[RabidFan]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I haven't quantified it but off of the top of my head I'd guess most mocks right now at 19 are either:  Darrisaw, Koramoah, Bateman or Jenkins. 

 

and Aloe Vera Tucker   🤣

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I've got Mayfield as a Round 4 guy, and as a Guard.  I doubt he could get playing time as a rookie barring a bunch of injuries.

[Skinsinparadise]

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

41 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not a Marshall fan myself. Drops too many passes. I see his upside and potential but I don’t like him before the 4th. Many here disagree with that take, though.

 

He and Bateman seem to both have a bad case of the dropsies playing inside.  I don't think either want to do crossers over the middle where they could get walloped.  Might have just been the games I watched, but it seemed like Marshall was more confident going after the ball at full arm extension when outside the numbers.  Or on the rare occasion his route went this way, over the middle but deeper then the linebackers.  He takes an extra beat following the ball into his hands.  Whereas inside and within linebacker striking distance, he seems a bit more jittery at the catch point.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

He and Bateman seem to both have a bad case of the dropsies playing inside. 

 

I've made the same point exactly months back.  I like both players but this is a hole in both of their games.  

[Fresh8686]

I recommend anyone doing an evaluation on Nico Collins pay special attention to his senior bowl tape over his 2019 tape. He’s changed his body and gotten more explosive. 
 

Anyone watching Bateman should make sure they watch last years tape and give it more weight than this years. 
 

Looks like Caleb Farley might be back in the 1st round discussion. 

 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I've never thought Rousseau was a stud, either. Freak athlete. But his film puts him as the third best University of Miami defensive end in this draft.

 

His size and abilities along with his versatility make him a guy you would take late 1st/2nd round no questions asked. Can play 3-tech or end. But... I just don't see it. Basham, Paye are both easily better as well. Roche/Phillips definitely are better.

 

Rousseau takes plays off. 

[Warhead36]

Caleb Farley could end up being like this year's Jonathan Allen: really good player who falls because of medical issues but ends up being a healthy and solid NFL starter.