2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

 

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

2 - The consistent ability to handle the first man in the hole and make him miss, failures of the OL into positive gains.  I honestly don't think I've ever seen a back who is better at consistently managing the failures of his offensive line and feeling out where that immediate penetration is coming from and side-stepping it/adjusting his initial path.  He's like a kung-fu master at this, it's uncanny.

 

 

I've been watching him this morning. 

 

In my opinion he struggles to get going if he is getting met before the LoS. He doesn't have the vision of Harris behind the LoS. Where he excels in my eyes is once he gets to the LoS. He sees the second level much better than the first and his elite C.O.D. allows his to take angles that let him brush off tackles or blow by guys. He has ridiculous acceleration once he gets to the hole. What I see is that his confidence sky rockets once he gets out of the backfield and into any kind of open space. It's ridiculous how he accelerates and breaks tackles beyond level 1.

 

Harris is the best vision player I've seen in some time as it pertains to first level reads and patience. No one sets blocks like Harris. I loved Clyde Edwards-Helaire last year as it pertained to his patience. Harris is even better there. Harris isn't as quick trigger as Etienne in the second level, though. His vision holds up very well, but he doesn't have that burst that Etienne has.

 

Etienne isn't as much of a drive legs through contact guy if it's solid contact as Harris, but he is more of a "I'm not going to even let you make contact" guy. 

 

Hubbard actually runs a lot like Etienne from what I've seen. Not the smoothest in the backfield but once he hits the hole he will find any seam and get there. He reverses field in the second level more than I've seen anyone else do, which is a quality that if it holds is dangerous... but NFL defenders may not allow it like the Big XII. What sets Etienne apart from Hubbard significantly as a back, though, is that I think Etienne is a much better receiver.

 

Etienne is a wide receiver... who is also a running back. His routes and hands are top end NFL running back abilities.

 

Etienne, though, is horrendous as a pass blocker.

 

Hubbard doesn't even have much in any cut ups as a pass blocker, so that really makes me nervous about his ability there.

 

Harris is the best of the bunch in that role. As a receiver he's not Hubbard or Etienne, or close. But he's adequate.

 

I think Harris has the best bellcow potential. Etienne the best homerun potential and Hubbard is just a good overall back. 

[HoggLife]

30 minutes ago, arftech said:

What will it take in draft capital for the WFT to move up in the draft at a spot between 5 and 10 to go out and get their QB?  Anybody have in scenarios for that?

Too much to get into Top 5 and I'd only do that for the best 3 QBs so you would have to get to Top 5 for that. I think it would take a RG3 type trade to get that high. I'd more like to trade up 4 or 5 spots and get Collins or Pitts. I would say DeVanta Smith but I think he is Top 6. Don't know how anyone thinks he will get out of Top 10 at worst. Staying at 19 i like Harris. Pairing him up with Gibson would be solid. With trading a 3rd or 4th rounder we can move up 3-5 picks and get Collins or Pitts. I think Pitts tremendously helps our offense and Collins tremendously helps our D. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by HoggLife

[Riggo#44]

The Falcons jumped up to 6 from 27 for Julio Jones in 2011, giving up:

2 1sts

1 2nds

2 4ths

Ealges climbed 6 spots to #2 for Wentz:

The Eagles on Wednesday traded up for the No. 2 overall pick in the 2016 NFL draft in a deal with the Cleveland Browns.

The Eagles acquire the Browns' 1st-round pick (No. 2) in 2016 and a fourth-round pick in 2017 in exchange for a first- (No. 8), third- (No. 77) and fourth-round (No. 100) pick in 2016, a first-round pick in 2017 and a second-round pick in 2018.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Riggo#44

[Going Commando]

Kyle Hamilton was spectacular in these games.  So big and athletic and active from deep position.  He's on track to be a first round pick next year.

[HoggLife]

8 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

 

Double post. Sorry please delete.

Edited January 6, 2021 by HoggLife

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think Harris has the best bellcow potential. Etienne the best homerun potential and Hubbard is just a good overall back. 

 

To my eye, Hubbard looked significantly diminished from what he was last season.  The patience and vision just weren't there this year, whereas last season those things were a breakthrough for him that the announcers talked about a lot.  I want to know why that regression happened.  I suspect he was pressing and trying to win the Heisman on every play and just didn't run as well this year, and the holes that he had last season just didn't materialize.  I didn't follow OK St's season very closely so I don't know what the issues were, but his season shook my confidence in him a little bit, whereas last season he looked like a future first rounder.

 

But the speed is just so special that you're still interested in Hubbard if we're talking late day two/early day three.  If you give him a hole, he'll get you an 80 yard TD.  Sometimes track speed is just worth the gamble at that position.  If you think about what Chris Johnson was able to do on his rookie contract, you start thinking about Hubbard in the fourth round as a potential lottery ticket.

 

Another guy you should check out is Jermar Jefferson from Oregon St.  I saw a lot of them in 2019 from watching Isaiah Hodgins and Jake Luton, and Jefferson was on the cusp of being really good.  I didn't watch much of his 2020, but supposedly he put it all together and was outstanding this season.  He's a powerful and crafty little runner who has that Clyde Edwards-Helaire style.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

He’s a rusher. That’s his strength. I’m not in love with the idea of him as a pure inside backer. But he is a sideline to sideline dude that can fly around and make tackles on the edge. He can also rush. Stunt pressures with him and the DL would be dangerous. I don’t have him pegged as the QB of the D. But David (if we get him) could be. And Holcomb could even do that part. 
 

We play a lot of 2 backer sets. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see Collins as the third “backer” next season floating just outside the box. 
 

David and Collins with Holcomb and Hudson developing is nothing to sneeze at. Can get creative and we would have tremendous depth even for non-traditional positions like the flexed backer in nickel sets. 

 

Collins is one of the players I've watched closely.  I did a longish report on him weeks ago on this thread.  I think I might have been the first or one of the first to mention him on the thread months back.  He's a really interesting player.  Intangibles through the roof.    He plays well in space.  He doesn't miss many tackles.  For a dude his size he can really move -- side line to side line.   He backpeddles well and readjusts.  He can play the pass and even make big plays against the pass in space.   As a rusher he strikes me as a simple bull rusher-motor guy.  I think that's where he can improve the most.  If he gets coached up, sky is the limit. 

 

I see him playing one of the outside LB spots right now maybe MLB down the road.   The cool thing among other things about him is you don't need to take him off the field when you play nickel. 

 

https://oklahoman.com/article/5676557/carlson-how-tulsa-linebacker-zaven-collins-went-from-small-school-oklahoma-football-to-big-time-nfl-draft-hopeful

 

“The crazy thing with Zaven,” Tulsa coach Philip Montgomery said, “I think Zaven’s best days are still ahead of him. He’s still learning the position, you know. You got to remember that he’s only played the position now a couple of years.”

Collins grew up wanting to play quarterback, and after his freshman year at Hominy, Harmon decided to switch him from running back to quarterback. The coach didn’t know if the switch was in the player’s best long-term interest.

 

...He accounted for 50 touchdowns, 27 rushing and 23 passing, and more than 3,100 yards of offense. He recorded 91 tackles, three interceptions and one fumble recovery on defense. He landed All-State honors.

But best of all, Collins led Hominy to an undefeated state championship.

Before every playoff game, Collins and Co. watched video clips from that loss to Stratford the year before. They called it a highlight tape, but it was really filled with low lights. Mistakes. Busts. Turnovers.

It stoked Hominy’s motivation.

 

“We were pretty hungry,” Collins said at the time.

That’s still the case with him.

“He’s still just as hungry as he was Day 1,” Montgomery said, “and can still see things that, ‘Hey, this is going to help me get better. A good step here, a bad step there, if I’m in position, I’m going to have the opportunity to make a ton of plays.’”

Collins has done just that.

 

The fourth-year junior, who has added 40 pounds since his high school days but hasn’t lost any speed, has a season’s worth of game-changing plays already — and 25th-ranked Tulsa has only played five games. Collins benefits from good talent all across the Tulsa defense, which keeps opponents from always keying on him and allows him a little more freedom, but the thing that separates him is his motivation.

He wants the heat.

 

“He has the intangibles in spades,” Harmon said. “He’s got great work ethic, he’s extremely motivated, and he’s really talented.

“Just a special kid.”

 

What the folks back in Hominy saw several years ago has now become obvious to everyone in football.

The fire doesn't just fuel Zaven Collins — it refines him.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

Do we know if they're having a Senior Bowl this year or an East West Shrine game? If so, do we know who's getting invited and who is coaching and the dates for those? I'd be interested in the interviews and the scouting reports that come out of those. they are always interesting. 

 

So appareantly the Shrine Game was cancelled this year. 

https://www.shrinegame.com/press-releases/2021-eastwest-shrine-bowl-announces-allstar-select-2124

 

Here are the players though

https://www.shrinegame.com/players

 

The senior Bowl seems to still be happening (January 30, 2021)

Here's a list of the players: 

https://www.seniorbowl.com/accepted-invites/

 

And in particular, here are the QBs

Texas A&M	Kellen	Mond	QB
Texas	Sam	Ehlinger	QB
Notre Dame	Ian	Book	QB
Florida	Kyle	Trask	QB
Arkansas	Feleipe	Franks	QB
Wake Forest	Jamie	Newman	QB

Edited January 6, 2021 by Thinking Skins

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Do we know if they're having a Senior Bowl this year or an East West Shrine game? If so, do we know who's getting invited and who is coaching and the dates for those? I'd be interested in the interviews and the scouting reports that come out of those. they are always interesting. 

 

Senior Bowl yes, East-West no.

The Reese’s Senior Bowl has added two more high-profile quarterbacks for the 2021 game.

Texas A&M’s Kellen Mond and Notre Dame’s Ian Book are now confirmed for the annual NFL draft showcase, which takes place Jan. 30 at Han**** Whitney Stadium in Mobile. Mond and Book join Kyle Trask (Florida), Jamie Newman (Wake Forest/Georgia) and Sam Ehlinger (Texas) to give the Senior Bowl five quarterbacks for 2021.

 

https://www.al.com/sports/2020/11/senior-bowl-adds-quarterbacks-kellen-mond-ian-book-for-2021-game.html#:~:text=Senior Bowl adds quarterbacks Kellen Mond%2C Ian Book for 2021 game,-Updated Nov 19&text=The Reese's Senior Bowl has,Han**** Whitney Stadium in Mobile

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, arftech said:

What will it take in draft capital for the WFT to move up in the draft at a spot between 5 and 10 to go out and get their QB?  Anybody have any scenarios for that?

#19 to #10 would cost an extra second and third minimum. Problem is you have teams between picks 6-12 either after a QB or in our division. 

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Do we know if they're having a Senior Bowl this year or an East West Shrine game? If so, do we know who's getting invited and who is coaching and the dates for those? I'd be interested in the interviews and the scouting reports that come out of those. they are always interesting. 

 

Supposedly they're having the senior bowl at the end of the month.  https://www.seniorbowl.com/accepted-invites/

 

A lot of great prospects on that list at pretty much every position.  I hope all of the OLs show up because I think it'll be really helpful for sorting out the day one and two OLs.  Especially want to see how Radunz and Spencer Brown do against top competition.

[KDawg]

Watching this class in detail I have to say I think this class from top to bottom is ****in loaded. Not just at one position... in general. There is a ton of talent. Weakest positions on the surface appear to be DL but there’s some guys who if they fix a thing or two can be nightmares.

 

And Barmore is a stud.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Man, Devonta Smith seems like a great kid and he’s obviously a great player. He deserves everything he’s worked hard for. I still don’t see him as getting picked in the top 7. I’d expect him to come off the board between picks

7-12 at best. Just my opinion. I think his size will give teams a little pause. Really happy for him though. Shared his heisman message with my kids today. Believe in yourself, have faith, and work unbelievably hard and you will get there. He’s an inspiration.  Really rooting for his continued success in the NFL.

Edited January 6, 2021 by COWBOY-KILLA-

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's my favorite of the defensive players that might be available at 19.  He's a perfect fit for us and would probably be a day one starter at MLB.  I think he's a more polished version of Tremaine Edmunds.  A king sized linebacker like that roaming around behind our DL could be an All Pro.  You're right that he has all of the traits you want from the position, which means we have to hope for luck to get him at 19.

 

I haven't done enough watching of the LBer class in general, but the other name I see projected around 19-20s is Owusu-Koromoah and I have watched him.  He's an interesting fit here.  Local kid from Hampton VA.  Seems to be smart and is extremely athletic and explosive.  Vicious physicality.  Played a "rover" type position for Notre Dame, and I like his potential as a similar free range playmaker in our scheme, but I have some qualms.  I think he duplicates Khaleke Hudson, who I already like.  And his size is a bit disappointing if you're picking him in the first round.  I know the NFL is trending towards positionless back seven defenders and Jamal Adams looms larger than just about anybody on a football field.  But the game is just so much easier for big players.  There is not going to be any match up that can bully Zaven Collins.  But there will be times where Owusu-Koromoah is just going to get run over or boxed out or wiped out by a good block no matter how hard he plays just because of the big size disadvantage.  This is why I've tended to be down on undersized LBers in the first round over the years.

 

But that doesn't mean I would rule Owusu-Koromoah out at 19.  Or even better would be to trade down a few slots and pick him in the 20s.  There are a lot of things to consider with a guy like him and a lot of positives to him.  The LBer depth could fall off of a cliff before we pick on day 2, lifting up the draft stock of the good but flawed ones like Owusu-Koromoah and Bolton.  And at the end of the day, Bobby Wagners and Lavonte Davids and London Fletchers do exist so you can't rule out a small linebacker from being way better than expected.

 

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't know how easy it will be for Zaven Collins to quickly jump to middle linebacker especially if they are looking for a leader on the field-directing the defense type like a Fletcher.  From what I've watched he played outside linebacker in college -- mostly weakside, some strong side.   I'd guess they sign a veteran MLB and use Collins on the outside at least at the start.  He has the build to be a natural strong side.  Maybe move Cole to the weakside?

I too believe Collins could be the monster player and eventual leader of D. Agree it may take a year for being the D QB but Holcomb or perhaps evnn L Collins (playing different roles) could cover that for the coming year as ZC matures into the position. The thing there is believe the MLB and starting QB positions will be settled before the draft. Well that and that I expect Miami to be salivating over him and they have plenty of draft capital and more is they drop back to land him early.

 

On the outside I really like O-K but agree I would like him more 20 pounds heavier. He and Cox are very intriguing. 

 

I spun Moses here for 2 years but he has been disappointing and only hole the injury is still affected his play some.

I liked Surratt early but didn't come on like I hoped either, I am eh to him

I like Bolton a lot up the middle but his lack of big burst scares me after years of Mason Foster and Jon Bostic

 

Put me down for hoping but not expecting ZC at the Redskins Pick

Although, if they were able to beat the Bucs with a cripple and a no name at QB, David might become much more interested in coming to Washington to play with that incredible line in front of him!

Edited January 6, 2021 by DWinzit

[Malapropismic Depository]

I am feeling a trade.

A trade-up in the 1st round for a QB

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I am feeling a trade.

A trade-up in the 1st round for a QB

Or trade back for Ridder? 

[Tedskins 21]

Zaven or Zach (or both??? Dreaming of course.)

[Burgundy Yoda]

Welp, Zaven Collins is definitely my new man-crush player for this defense in the 2021 draft. If we could get him at 19, our front 7 could potentially be the best in the NFL. He looks like he has elite athleticism for his size, I mean this guy can really move for his size (watch the vid below), and looks very moldable for Ron Rivera. He looks like a Ron Rivera player (Plus defender against the pass it would seem at LB). 

 

I really think the route the team should take at this point is to get a veteran QB. I'm okay with drafting someone like Kyle Trask or Mac Jones at 19 (or later), but I don't think it's the smartest move and I don't think they're going to alter the future of the franchise. This defense is very ready to be considered elite and is a player or two away from being a dominant force, we need to think like Denver did when they acquired Manning. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

4 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Welp, Zaven Collins is definitely my new man-crush player for this defense in the 2021 draft. If we could get him at 19, our front 7 could potentially be the best in the NFL. He looks like he has elite athleticism for his size, I mean this guy can really move for his size (watch the vid below), and looks very moldable for Ron Rivera. He looks like a Ron Rivera player (Plus defender against the pass it would seem at LB).

 

 

Yeah the first thing that struck me about Collins which I wrote about sometime back is for a dude his size he can really motor.  If he has a freakish combine I think it will almost guarantee he goes before our pick.  But he's a 260 pound LB who moves like a 225 one. 

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Pitts to a division rival would be a slight blow. I guess they all should be getting a talent picking top #11, Pitts is one I’d like them to miss out on.

[Warhead36]

I can't imagine Dallas not drafting defense. They've been historically bad this year until they played two inept offenses to end the season.

[Koolblue13]

Unless Zaven totally busts his combine I doubt he is there for us.

[PlayAction]

22 hours ago, KDawg said:

Watching this class in detail I have to say I think this class from top to bottom is ****in loaded. Not just at one position... in general. There is a ton of talent. Weakest positions on the surface appear to be DL but there’s some guys who if they fix a thing or two can be nightmares.

 

And Barmore is a stud.

 

If your assessment is correct then the advantage goes to teams that have quality scouting departments able to find contributors throughout the draft.  Given the Skins' recent history (Skins/WFT) I think Washington will have the advantage.  Can they find a Stefon Diggs type in the 6th round instead of using a first round pick?  Let's hope!  To me, a deep draft at a particular position usually is an argument to pick that position lower.  You might miss out if there is a run on the position but the probability of high value is in your favor.  Since Washington can use help at almost every position except DL this year would seem to be a perfect opportunity.  Considering that both the HC and DC played linebacker in the NFL I think they are going to push really hard for that position in the draft.  In the meantime, let's enjoy another week.  

[Warhead36]

Zaven is a badass name and just fits perfectly with this D.

[HigSkin]

On 1/6/2021 at 10:44 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Texas A&M’s Kellen Mond and Notre Dame’s Ian Book are now confirmed for the annual NFL draft showcase, which takes place Jan. 30 at Han**** Whitney Stadium in Mobile. Mond and Book join Kyle Trask (Florida), Jamie Newman (Wake Forest/Georgia) and Sam Ehlinger (Texas) to give the Senior Bowl five quarterbacks for 2021.

 

 

Anybody done any research on Mond?