2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

I think our major cap spend will go on offense. QB,WR and bringing back Scherff.
 

Darby maybe get a decent mid tier offer. Same with a free agent LB. Could even bring in a vet safety as backup. Free agency is always a wash with low value safety’s. That Collins contract in 2021 really is a killer for the DB group. If we get money back through the cap for Smith if he goes, then much of that is viable.

 

The draft is wide open. 1,2,3,3,4,5 are all really good value picks.

 

Would like to draft a OT early, but no idea what they will decide with Lucas, plus Charles is a massive unknown on the left side.

 

Need a LB early. mid round RB. Day 2 receiver maybe. Mid round TE. Who knows. 
 

The move at QB and early free agency will at give some clear indicators.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think our major cap spend will go on offense. QB,WR and bringing back Scherff.
 

Darby maybe get a decent mid tier offer. Same with a free agent LB. Could even bring in a vet safety as backup. Free agency is always a wash with low value safety’s. That Collins contract in 2021 really is a killer for the DB group. If we get money back through the cap for Smith if he goes, then much of that is viable.

 

The draft is wide open. 1,2,3,3,4,5 are all really good value picks.

 

Would like to draft a OT early, but no idea what they will decide with Lucas, plus Charles is a massive unknown on the left side.

 

Need a LB early. mid round RB. Day 2 receiver maybe. Mid round TE. Who knows. 
 

The move at QB and early free agency will at give some clear indicators.

 

FA will be fascinating I think this year.  They will likely be confident at it since arguably they nailed FA last time.   I know the draft is deep at WR but it was last year too and they still bid big for Cooper.  I think they are going to take a big shot at a WR FA, probably MLB, too.

 

Alex is the wildcard.  If he decides to come back, he's a 25 million cap hit, so you couldn't really be aggressive with a QB veteran.  But if he's off the books, anything goes just about. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I am, every year, a giant OL guy. In this case, I’m not focused on the OL.

 

If an OL is the BPA at any of our selections, take them. But my need weight for them isn’t all that high right now. Competent quarterback play can generally make the OL look better. A sound back who can read and react can make the OL look better. And our OL was better than expected talent wise.

 

We do have an unknown but I think we can shore it up and be serviceable in that position group through FA and any BPA type picks in the draft.

 

I’d weight the draft heavily on offense. The only defensive position I weight heavily is LB. 

 

So to make my point more concise as far as how I’d prioritize:

 

1) QB/Linebacker - draft or FA

2) Running back - draft

3) Wide Receiver - Draft but a good value FA signing isn’t a bad plan.

4) offensive line - draft if BPA, value signing in FA

I’d put the lions share of the FA money into new contracts and re-signings that expire after 2022-2024 when the cap increases again. Lower year deal for a Darby. Longer for a Scherff.

 

If we can’t get Darby back corner becomes an issue. Part of me wonders if Moreau was playing less to keep his cost down to be a starter. If we can get him back I’m okay with the group even without Darby. 
 

Free Safety isn’t a huge concern to me at the moment. I think Everett can play there in some/nickel situations, I think Curl can play there in base formations and I think Collins can play SS or down in the box as a WILL or SAM in space. 
 

That also lessens the need for a backer a bit because Holcomb has earned the right to start in the middle at the very least. But we need another one. So instead of needing 2-3 we need 1 maybe 2. 
 

If Paris Ford is available in the third round? Take him and don’t look back. Same with Holland. But otherwise I’m not in any real dire mode for that position. 
 

Now, we will add fringe players across the board. It’s part of roster construction. So I think a lot of our depth weaknesses can be covered with good late day drafting and value FA moves like this year. 
 

And things change when guys become available or not available. They change when we re-sign guys or lose them. But given the current landscape this would be my plan.

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think our major cap spend will go on offense. QB,WR and bringing back Scherff.
 

Darby maybe get a decent mid tier offer. Same with a free agent LB. Could even bring in a vet safety as backup. Free agency is always a wash with low value safety’s. That Collins contract in 2021 really is a killer for the DB group. If we get money back through the cap for Smith if he goes, then much of that is viable.

 

The draft is wide open. 1,2,3,3,4,5 are all really good value picks.

 

Would like to draft a OT early, but no idea what they will decide with Lucas, plus Charles is a massive unknown on the left side.

 

Need a LB early. mid round RB. Day 2 receiver maybe. Mid round TE. Who knows. 
 

The move at QB and early free agency will at give some clear indicators.

This is interesting because we have so little info on how this new front office works. Last year they went for value signings and guys who were underused in their previous schemes and could be due for a breakout year. We saw this in Schweitzer, Lucas, McK, Thomas, and KPL. Darby could also go in this category but he was more injury prone and a value signing because of that, plus he was prone to biting on double moves and that lowered his contract status. 

 

So If I had to bet on it, I'd say that we'd probably look for more guys like this in free agency, guys who are underused and who we can get in here to compete. 

 

That said, we didn't go after Eric Reid because Ron said he wanted to reward guys for doing it the right way and build a certain culture here, so I could also see us trying to re-sign our guys at respectable deals comparable to what we gave Roullier. 

 

I think think we'll have something comparable to the Bruce Years (which is what I was calling this offseason before the season anyway), an attempt to sure up our weaknesses in terms of getting some 'talent' and 'potential' at just about every spot so that we are not in a situation where we HAVE to draft say ILB in round 1 or LT in round 2. So I could see us having bodies and potential everywhere and going into late April with a pure BPA approach. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Waddle might be back

 

 

 

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I am, every year, a giant OL guy. In this case, I’m not focused on the OL.

 

If an OL is the BPA at any of our selections, take them. But my need weight for them isn’t all that high right now. Competent quarterback play can generally make the OL look better. A sound back who can read and react can make the OL look better. And our OL was better than expected talent wise.

 

We do have an unknown but I think we can shore it up and be serviceable in that position group through FA and any BPA type picks in the draft.

 

I’d weight the draft heavily on offense. The only defensive position I weight heavily is LB. 

 

So to make my point more concise as far as how I’d prioritize:

 

1) QB/Linebacker - draft or FA

2) Running back - draft

3) Wide Receiver - Draft but a good value FA signing isn’t a bad plan.

4) offensive line - draft if BPA, value signing in FA

I’d put the lions share of the FA money into new contracts and re-signings that expire after 2022-2024 when the cap increases again. Lower year deal for a Darby. Longer for a Scherff.

 

If we can’t get Darby back corner becomes an issue. Part of me wonders if Moreau was playing less to keep his cost down to be a starter. If we can get him back I’m okay with the group even without Darby. 
 

Free Safety isn’t a huge concern to me at the moment. I think Everett can play there in some/nickel situations, I think Curl can play there in base formations and I think Collins can play SS or down in the box as a WILL or SAM in space. 
 

That also lessens the need for a backer a bit because Holcomb has earned the right to start in the middle at the very least. But we need another one. So instead of needing 2-3 we need 1 maybe 2. 
 

If Paris Ford is available in the third round? Take him and don’t look back. Same with Holland. But otherwise I’m not in any real dire mode for that position. 
 

Now, we will add fringe players across the board. It’s part of roster construction. So I think a lot of our depth weaknesses can be covered with good late day drafting and value FA moves like this year. 
 

And things change when guys become available or not available. They change when we re-sign guys or lose them. But given the current landscape this would be my plan.

 

I'd love a young bell-cow RB, but the thing is that RB is also a very cheap position in terms of FA (see us signing JD and to a lesser extent, Barber).  Maybe we see who is out on the scrap heap if the value at our 1st round pick isn't worth taking a RB (especially if Najee is gone).  

 

I'll tell you who'd be a nice potential FA signing at RB...Wayne Gallman or Chris Carson.  Both guys won't break the bank.

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Waddle might be back

 

 

 

 

 

He's probably the 4th skill position guy drafted behind Chase, Smith, and Pitts I'm assuming.

[Est.1974]

Yeah, plenty of unknowns and variables. QB the major offseason quandary.

 

I’ve said this a couple of times, but I think whatever plan Rivera had, the outcome of this season will have accelerated it. We can really capitalise on our depth of resource in salary cap space and draft picks. Plus the division is there for the taking at the moment.

 

I think that will result in a more aggressive approach in the offseason, including personnel moves in the front office. But time will tell. Interesting times.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yeah, plenty of unknowns and variables. QB the major offseason quandary.

 

I’ve said this a couple of times, but I think whatever plan Rivera had, the outcome of this season will have accelerated it. We can really capitalise on our depth of resource in salary cap space and draft picks. Plus the division is there for the taking at the moment.

 

I think that will result in a more aggressive approach in the offseason, including personnel moves in the front office. But time will tell. Interesting times.

I wouldn’t let it if I were in charge (which some folks would hate  ). You have to keep the long term future in mind while still attempting to win games now. That means not overpaying for guys just to overpay them and get them in house. 
 

I do agree, though, that the culture itself has brought about enough change that a REASONABLE move to improve that may not have been on the radar previously is likely there now. 

[Going Commando]

Trey Sermon's Marshawn Lynch impression the last three games has been pretty incredible, begging the question where has this guy been the last two years?  I'd want a good answer to that question before I'd draft him early.  The inspired way he's run during this enormous outburst of productivity made me feel like I was watching Guice again.

 

Also consider how good a run #71 and #52 have had for Ohio State the past two seasons.  First they road graded a 2000 yard rushing season and now paved the way for an epic postseason rushing performance.  #71 is impressive.  Tackle sized center with elite strength and mobility for how big he is.  Canny recovery skills.  Excellent move and second level blocker.  He is a special center.  I got him in the second round of a TDN mock that I did yesterday and that feels like excellent value.  I would draft him in that range and consider starting Roullier at LG.  Or vice versa.  It's not often you find zbs specialist IOLs with elite size like him.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I think think we'll have something comparable to the Bruce Years (which is what I was calling this offseason before the season anyway), an attempt to sure up our weaknesses in terms of getting some 'talent' and 'potential' at just about every spot so that we are not in a situation where we HAVE to draft say ILB in round 1 or LT in round 2. So I could see us having bodies and potential everywhere and going into late April with a pure BPA approach. 

 

I don't think their approach was that similar to Bruce.  I hated Bruce's approach to FA but loved Rivera/Smith's approach and said it at the time

 

Bruce would love going medium in FA.  I recall the bragging about hey we didn't do Calais Campbell but we got two DTs for the price of one (even cheaper):  McGee, McClain.  But they weren't dirt cheap contracts.    He liked to overpay for medicore or sometimes aging players.   Overpaying for guys like Andre Roberts, Culliver, Hatcher, etc.

 

Bruce's sweet spot which he mostly failed at royally is chasing C plus level players and paying them like they are B plus players.    And he also spent up much of the cap.  So he wasn't really that cheap.  He just preferred to pay $30 to buy two hamburgers which were worth $20 then buying one steak for $30 that's worth $37.  And his homegrown stars like Jamison Crowder -- adios, good luck with your next team because we aren't bringing most of our guys back. 

 

Yes Bruce would also sign some really cheap FA's too, almost all of them busts.  As did Ron/Kyle who were successful at it.  But the core approach for Bruce was about overrating medium level players and spending most of their cap.  Some exceptions to it but that was what he did most of the time. 

 

Rivera/Smith did it the way I've wanted them to do it for years. Shoot for the big fish, which they did.  And if you fail at it -- don't overpay for nonstars.  Go bargain shopping without filling your cap with junk.  they did it brilliantly.  We both got finds at FA and have plenty of carry over cap room.  Bruce failed at it miserably mostly. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I don’t see anything even remotely close in the recent approach to Bruce Allen’s.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Trey Sermon's Marshawn Lynch impression the last three games has been pretty incredible, begging the question where has this guy been the last two years?  I'd want a good answer to that question before I'd draft him early.  The inspired way he's run during this enormous outburst of productivity made me feel like I was watching Guice again.

 

Also consider how good a run #71 and #52 have had for Ohio State the past two seasons.  First they road graded a 2000 yard rushing season and now paved the way for an epic postseason rushing performance.  #71 is impressive.  Tackle sized center with elite strength and mobility for how big he is.  Canny recovery skills.  Excellent move and second level blocker.  He is a special center.  I got him in the second round of a TDN mock that I did yesterday and that feels like excellent value.  I would draft him in that range and consider starting Roullier at LG.  Or vice versa.  It's not often you find zbs specialist IOLs with elite size like him.

 

I dived in to Sermon some.   I read different accounts some say ACL, some said LCL injury derailed his 2019 season at Oklahoma and lingered into 2020.  so supposedly he wasn't healthy until mid season 2020. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think their approach was that similar to Bruce.  I hated Bruce's approach to FA but loved Rivera/Smith's approach and said it the time

 

Bruce would love going medium in FA.  I recall the bragging about hey we didn't do Calais Campbell but we got two DTs for the price of one (even cheaper):  McGee, McClain.  But they weren't dirt cheap contracts.    He liked to overpay for medicore or sometimes aging players.   Overpaying for guys like Andre Roberts, Culliver, Hatcher, etc.

Those are some examples but there are others. We signed several budget FAs under Bruce as well, some that turned out well. Case Keenum (trade I know, but a real steal), AP (not a Bruce finding but he was paid next to nothing), Donald Penn (older guy but again paid next to nothing), Erick Flowers (young, budget signing, used at wrong position), Hale Hentges, Kapri Bibbs, Caleb Brantley, Colt McCoy, Duke Ihenacho, Donte Whitner, etc. 

 

I'm not saying he didn't sign the C level players to B level contracts as you say. But he did try to find steals and do some good deals as well. I don't think you give him enough credit for this. And I will agree that I hated the signings of some of these guys like you mention (I didn't want Campbell either but would have rather simply depended on the draft or signing guys to less risky contracts). 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Those are some examples but there are others. We signed several budget FAs under Bruce as well, some that turned out well. Case Keenum (trade I know, but a real steal), AP (not a Bruce finding but he was paid next to nothing), Donald Penn (older guy but again paid next to nothing), Erick Flowers (young, budget signing, used at wrong position), Hale Hentges, Kapri Bibbs, Caleb Brantley, Colt McCoy, Duke Ihenacho, Donte Whitner, etc. 

 

I'm not saying he didn't sign the C level players to B level contracts as you say. But he did try to find steals and do some good deals as well. I don't think you give him enough credit for this. And I will agree that I hated the signings of some of these guys like you mention (I didn't want Campbell either but would have rather simply depended on the draft or signing guys to less risky contracts). 

 

Every trade he made was arguably bad.  All of them.  If these players are Bruce's victory lap then you help make my point for me:  Hale Hentges, Kapri Bibbs, Caleb Brantley, Colt McCoy, Duke Ihenacho, Donte Whitner, etc.  Yes, EVERY, GM has some good moves.  The best FA crop we've had was arguably one year under Cerrato, the season Gibbs arrived.  Every dog has its day but its about having most of your decisions ending up smart not just occasionally.  Most of Rivera/Smith's moves were smart.  Not the case with Bruce.   

 

And I think you discount the fact that while Bruce didn't spend the cap to the tippy top, he still spent most of it.  I can't recall having all this carry over cap under Bruce.   Yeah he wouldn't have paid 20 million for Cooper in FA.  But he'd pay something nutty like 9 million for someone like Taylor Gabriel and would have filled most of the cap with that tact.  Overpaying for hamburgers is my favorite analogy to describe Bruce.  Yes he would also chase the cheaper Ramen Noodles dishes too and mostly fail at it but I still think the defining aspect of it was overpaying for burgers. 

 

Bruce IMO was a disaster.  I know you loved him back when he was here.  But as I told you then, there were people in real time when he was here who loved Cerrato, and Bruce would end up a similar punch line in the end.  I've been right and wrong about things.  But as to Bruce I nailed that one pretty good.  He's by a mile the bigger punch line over Cerrato.  Even our incompetent jerk of an owner dismissed Bruce at the end without even a small obligatory pat on the back -- he basically labeled him as the symbol of the bad culture they had.  Even I thought that was too harsh considering Dan should take most of that blame himself but Bruce was certainly well deserving of being a symbol of the incompetent-bad culture label IMO. 

 

[Thinking Skins]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yes Bruce would also sign some really cheap FA's too, almost all of them busts.  As did Ron/Kyle who were successful at it.  But the core approach for Bruce was medium level players and spending most of their cap.  Some exceptions to it but that was what he did most of the time. 

 

Rivera/Smith did it the way I've wanted them to do it for years. Shoot for the big fish, which they did.  And if you fail at it -- don't overpay for nonstars.  Go bargain shopping without filling your cap with junk.  they did it brilliantly.  Bruce failed at it miserably mostly. 

I want to exand on this more because I don't think we differ much. I think that there is a key difference in how Ron plays his players vs how Gruden & Shanny played his. Not to mention that we only have 1 year of Ron&Smith to go on and its a COVID year at that. I mentioned in a previous post about some of the low budget guys that we signed. Some of them were great deals (Flowers), but others didn't get enough attention to pay off (Bibbs, Hentges). Why? We'll never know. We do know that Bibbs said something about what the reason was behind Gruden not liking him. We also know that Hentges outplayed Sprinkle but for some reason Sprinkle kept getting chances last year. There are other guys, both guys we drafted and guys that we signed that can't get on the field (remember the love for Ryan Grant and Trey Quinn), remember how long it took to get David Amerson off the field? I remember wanting Trent Robinson to get more time at S, but that was hard to come by. 

[method man]

51 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I am, every year, a giant OL guy. In this case, I’m not focused on the OL.

 

If an OL is the BPA at any of our selections, take them. But my need weight for them isn’t all that high right now. Competent quarterback play can generally make the OL look better. A sound back who can read and react can make the OL look better. And our OL was better than expected talent wise.

 

We do have an unknown but I think we can shore it up and be serviceable in that position group through FA and any BPA type picks in the draft.

 

I’d weight the draft heavily on offense. The only defensive position I weight heavily is LB. 

 

So to make my point more concise as far as how I’d prioritize:

 

1) QB/Linebacker - draft or FA

2) Running back - draft

3) Wide Receiver - Draft but a good value FA signing isn’t a bad plan.

4) offensive line - draft if BPA, value signing in FA

I’d put the lions share of the FA money into new contracts and re-signings that expire after 2022-2024 when the cap increases again. Lower year deal for a Darby. Longer for a Scherff.

 

If we can’t get Darby back corner becomes an issue. Part of me wonders if Moreau was playing less to keep his cost down to be a starter. If we can get him back I’m okay with the group even without Darby. 
 

Free Safety isn’t a huge concern to me at the moment. I think Everett can play there in some/nickel situations, I think Curl can play there in base formations and I think Collins can play SS or down in the box as a WILL or SAM in space. 
 

That also lessens the need for a backer a bit because Holcomb has earned the right to start in the middle at the very least. But we need another one. So instead of needing 2-3 we need 1 maybe 2. 
 

If Paris Ford is available in the third round? Take him and don’t look back. Same with Holland. But otherwise I’m not in any real dire mode for that position. 
 

Now, we will add fringe players across the board. It’s part of roster construction. So I think a lot of our depth weaknesses can be covered with good late day drafting and value FA moves like this year. 
 

And things change when guys become available or not available. They change when we re-sign guys or lose them. But given the current landscape this would be my plan.

I basically agree with you on most points except I am against spending a Day 1 or Day 2 pick on a RB (I know you love Najee) and I am willing to give up draft capital for Stafford, Ryan or Carr.

 

I also believe you need two WRs, an outside guy and a slot with slot being a bigger need as Steven Sims can’t be the solution next year. I am up for picking one guy up in FA (a cheaper shorter contract type such as Hilton or Isaiah McKenzie) and someone in the draft in the 2nd or 3rd.  I believe C Sims and Harmon are both #4 WR types and I haven’t seen much from Wright and Gandy Golden. Maybe one of those 4 guys should bulk up Niles Paul style and move to TE as a lighter move TE

Edited January 5, 2021 by method man

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And I think you discount the fact that while Bruce didn't spend the cap to the tippy top, he still spent most of it.  I can't recall having all this carry over cap under Bruce.   Yeah he wouldn't have paid 20 million for Cooper in FA.  But he'd pay something nutty like 9 million for someone like Taylor Gabriel and would have filled most of the cap with that tact.  Overpaying for hamburgers is my favorite analogy to describe Bruce.  Yes he would also chase the cheaper Ramen Noodles dishes too and mostly fail at it but I still think the defining aspect of it was overpaying for burgers. 

 

See this is false. We needed a WR in 2012 and after many times failing in the draft, he went after Pierre Garcon. He was a guy emerging in Indy and many questioned if he could be a #1, but he got a 5 year 42.5 mil contract from Bruce. Then he emerged as our go to guy and a loved WR here. The guys I mentioned wasn't his victory lap it was just some of the better cheap contracts. 

 

Garcon got a good deal and lived up to it though so it doesn't count as what I was saying. The problem with Bruce is that yeah he did spend all the money available. So he would find a Garcon and also find a Pryor for a 1 year 8 mil deal. That was a dud and I hated it but it doesn't discount him taking a correct chance on Garcon. 

[method man]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

See this is false. We needed a WR in 2012 and after many times failing in the draft, he went after Pierre Garcon. He was a guy emerging in Indy and many questioned if he could be a #1, but he got a 5 year 42.5 mil contract from Bruce. Then he emerged as our go to guy and a loved WR here. The guys I mentioned wasn't his victory lap it was just some of the better cheap contracts. 

 

Garcon got a good deal and lived up to it though so it doesn't count as what I was saying. The problem with Bruce is that yeah he did spend all the money available. So he would find a Garcon and also find a Pryor for a 1 year 8 mil deal. That was a dud and I hated it but it doesn't discount him taking a correct chance on Garcon. 

When I think Bruce era, I think more post Shanny era as Shanny had personnel control (ex-RG3 trade)

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

When I think Bruce era, I think more post Shanny era as Shanny had personnel control (ex-RG3 trade)

Well we can say the Desean Jackson contract instead of the Garcon contract and the same thing holds. Same with Jason Hatcher. Its not like we got a bunch of McGee/McClain guys in FA from Bruce, he did overpay for mediocre guys a lot, but he did do his fare share of value signings and finding guys at the appropriate price. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

QB dictates the off-season IMO.

 

Currently, I am earmarking our 1st round pick for a QB, as well as some FA moneys. I assume Alex will retire or be released to free-up some space. But the FA QB probably dictates the draft a bit more. If we go get someone like Stafford, Carr or Darnold, maybe we skip QB in the draft and see what we can get in 2021. If it's someone like Tyrod or Cam or Mariota, then I would expect that signing to be paired with a 1st round pick (Mac Jones, Trey Lance?).

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I wouldn’t let it if I were in charge (which some folks would hate  ). You have to keep the long term future in mind while still attempting to win games now. That means not overpaying for guys just to overpay them and get them in house. 
 

I do agree, though, that the culture itself has brought about enough change that a REASONABLE move to improve that may not have been on the radar previously is likely there now. 

Agree, I don’t advocate a reckless approach, and don’t think that will unfold, so ‘reasonable’ is about right. Push the door about more open. Added to this what is looking likely to be a clear conclusion at QB, eg, neither Haskins nor Smith being around in 2021. So that issue may be forced a little more.

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I dived in to Sermon some.   I read different accounts some say ACL, some said LCL injury derailed his 2019 season at Oklahoma and lingered into 2020.  so supposedly he wasn't healthy until mid season 2020. 

 

Unless he was playing on it for all of 2019, a knee injury doesn't explain why he wasn't anything special in the first half of that season.  He was pretty inconsistent in his first two seasons too.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

See this is false. We needed a WR in 2012 and after many times failing in the draft, he went after Pierre Garcon. He was a guy emerging in Indy and many questioned if he could be a #1, but he got a 5 year 42.5 mil contract from Bruce. Then he emerged as our go to guy and a loved WR here. The guys I mentioned wasn't his victory lap it was just some of the better cheap contracts. 

 

Garcon got a good deal and lived up to it though so it doesn't count as what I was saying. The problem with Bruce is that yeah he did spend all the money available. So he would find a Garcon and also find a Pryor for a 1 year 8 mil deal. That was a dud and I hated it but it doesn't discount him taking a correct chance on Garcon. 

 

That helps my point too, since that was Shanny.  You can't have it both ways on the subject.  I've seen you recently defend loving Bruce (and you flat out said multiple times that you love him for yearrs on that thread) because you don't blame him for what went wrong with Shanny because that's Shanny not Bruce.  To double down on the point, Shanny even talked about why he wanted Garcon multiple times in interviews. So bad Shanny stuff is on Shanny and the good stuff Bruce should get credit for?

 

But lets pretend it was Bruce's idea even though it wasn't.  It's not about getting things occasionally right.  Everyone does.  It's about making more good decisions than bad decisions. 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

Well we can say the Desean Jackson contract instead of the Garcon contract and the same thing holds. Same with Jason Hatcher. Its not like we got a bunch of McGee/McClain guys in FA from Bruce, he did overpay for mediocre guys a lot, but he did do his fare share of value signings and finding guys at the appropriate price. 

 

Maybe if I get the energy later I'll revisit all of Bruce's signings and trades.  I've done it plenty of times before.  But sorry the dude was a disaster IMO.  And even if you disagree -- you must recognize now that Bruce is considered a joke and a punchline with fans.  And a much bigger punch line than Cerrato ever was.   Even I was surprised he reached that type of infamy.  

 

He's actually the lead clown symbol of when people talk about how we had bad culture and incompetence.  And actually to defend Bruce a little, I think Dan is self serving to put it all on Bruce.  Dan deserves all the blame for that -- Bruce was just his facilitator. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Anselmheifer]

The Bruce stuff is a waste of time. He’s a huge part of the reason we’ve sucked forever. It’s no coincidence that he’s gone and now our ex players don’t have a beef with the team and we are turning things around. McLain and McGee. That’s all I’m going to say. Point at the scoreboard.

 

Does any team this year have two seconds? I honestly wouldn’t mind a trade back to the top of the 2nd or to the late 1st this year. If we aren’t going up for a QB.

[Commander_N_Chief]

12 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

The Bruce stuff is a waste of time. He’s a huge part of the reason we’ve sucked forever. It’s no coincidence that he’s gone and now our ex players don’t have a beef with the team and we are turning things around. McLain and McGee. That’s all I’m going to say. Point at the scoreboard.

 

Does any team this year have two seconds? I honestly wouldn’t mind a trade back to the top of the 2nd or to the late 1st this year. If we aren’t going up for a QB.

Just Miami and Jacksonville.  I'm not sure either would want to trade the 2-2s unless someone fell to 19