2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Riggo#44]

Just now, KDawg said:

It hasn’t been proven silly. He is mediocre at best as a thrower. He is a great runner. He has some major QB traits that help him: charisma, leadership, work ethic and poise. Those things help him excel despite his flaws as a passer. 
 

Jackson is a great prospect because of those things. Not because he is a great thrower. Don’t get it twisted... he IS a QB. But throwing the ball isn’t his forte. Creating and leading are. And those traits shouldn’t be devalued. 
 

 

Sounds a lot like Trey Lance...

[CurseReversed]

16 hours ago, KDawg said:

Mac Jones’ slide attempt just caused himself an injury. Great decision but what in the name of all that is Holy was that?

 

Outstanding throw to Smith at the front of the pylon on the end zone comeback. That was text book.
 

Jones’ accuracy and poise stands out tonight. 
 

My post Bowl game rankings might see him climb a bit.

That slide alone is enough to make me re-think my position on Jones.  ouch.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Sounds a lot like Trey Lance...

If I were comparing any of the prospects to Jackson it would be Lance. 
 

Jackson is a smarter runner.

 

Jackson has a little more slender of a frame. 
 

Jackson is faster.

 

Lance is a better thrower.

 

But they are pretty close.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

It hasn’t been proven silly. He is mediocre at best as a thrower. He is a great runner. He has some major QB traits that help him: charisma, leadership, work ethic and poise. Those things help him excel despite his flaws as a passer. 
 

Jackson is a great prospect because of those things. Not because he is a great thrower. Don’t get it twisted... he IS a QB. But throwing the ball isn’t his forte. Creating and leading are. And those traits shouldn’t be devalued.

 

I disagree.  I think he is an excellent passer.  He has strong command of his pocket,  reads his pressure great, sees the field well, makes good decisions and takes care of the ball.  Great feet on his drops--rapid without getting noisy or wasteful.  Throws with excellent and natural touch, puts it on the money on vertical throws and slants, super fast and compact release with good power on throws outside the numbers and into the middle underneath zones.  And he has a rare ability to stick off balance and on the move throws.

 

His extreme speed is a part of his pocket success because he can navigate his pocket and go through his drops at much faster rate, and on boots and rollouts, he can get a lot of depth and reset for throws so fast that he has more time to scan the field than a normal QB.  It's how he finds all of those clear throwing lanes into underneath seams and late developing opportunities down field.  It's some of the same stuff for why Russell Wilson is so successful.  You can't separate his speed from his success as a passer because it makes him dangerous as a passer, not just as a runner.

[KDawg]

We’re just not going to agree on this. I am very used to you and I having very different QB takes, though.

 

We agree more often than not at other positions, though.

[Riggo#44]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If I were comparing any of the prospects to Jackson it would be Lance. 
 

Jackson is a smarter runner.

 

Jackson has a little more slender of a frame. 
 

Jackson is faster.

 

Lance is a better thrower.

 

But they are pretty close.

The thing that Jackson and Lance have most in common are ye ole Skintangibles

[Darrell Green Fan]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It hasn’t been proven silly. He is mediocre at best as a thrower. He is a great runner. He has some major QB traits that help him: charisma, leadership, work ethic and poise. Those things help him excel despite his flaws as a passer. 
 

Jackson is a great prospect because of those things. Not because he is a great thrower. Don’t get it twisted... he IS a QB. But throwing the ball isn’t his forte. Creating and leading are. And those traits shouldn’t be devalued. 
 

 

 

I gotta agree. I love watching Lamar Jackson play, one of my favorite players to watch.  I've gone from hating the Ravens to liking them and he is the reason. But even though he has improved dramatically since his rookie season he is still a below average thrower by NFL standards. Until he produces big in the playoffs the jury is still out on just how great he really is.  

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Shaun Wade has completely ruined his draft stock. Dude should have declared last year.

 

This was a ****ed up year, especially for Big 10 and Pac 12 players.  Some of them handled the season really well, others didn't.  Corner play is really volatile too.  He's not a first rounder any more, and maybe he shouldn't have been.  But if I see him on Day 2, especially picking late in the rounds, I still like that value.  No matter what, he's a bruising corner who I feel can be a strong presence in the slot.

 

I want to see what he runs.  That's going to be critical for his draft stock.

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This was a ****ed up year, especially for Big 10 and Pac 12 players.  Some of them handled the season really well, others didn't.  Corner play is really volatile too.  He's not a first rounder any more, and maybe he shouldn't have been.  But if I see him on Day 2, especially picking late in the rounds, I still like that value.  No matter what, he's a bruising corner who I feel can be a strong presence in the slot.

 

I want to see what he runs.  That's going to be critical for his draft stock.

He can’t cover 1 on 1. He’s slow and late to react to balls. I loved him coming into this year but I don’t want anything to do with him. Same with Kendrick on Clemson. Every time I watched either this year they were getting picked on.

[KillBill26]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This was a ****ed up year, especially for Big 10 and Pac 12 players.  Some of them handled the season really well, others didn't.  Corner play is really volatile too.  He's not a first rounder any more, and maybe he shouldn't have been.  But if I see him on Day 2, especially picking late in the rounds, I still like that value.  No matter what, he's a bruising corner who I feel can be a strong presence in the slot.

 

I want to see what he runs.  That's going to be critical for his draft stock.

I liked wade going into this year as he seemed to be a chess piece: slot and outside cb, and can play deep safety. He had a disappointing 2020, his first year playing a lot on the outside, which is concerning.  But chess pieces like that with good instincts and toughness are so valuable.

 

I wonder what his disappointing 2020 can be attributed to: not being able to handle playing outside?  Or just the product of a strange off-season and a shortened season leading to a small sample size.

 

I think if wade is there in round 2, he has got to be on the short list.

[KillBill26]

14 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

He can’t cover 1 on 1. He’s slow and late to react to balls.

Scouting reports don't seem to think speed is an issue:

 

"There's notable twitch to his game; his acceleration and long speed are undeniable"

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/shaun-wade/8QEIDxAV3C

 

which makes his 2020 struggles even more perplexing, considering he also is praised for his instincts.

Edited January 2, 2021 by KillBill26

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

He can’t cover 1 on 1. He’s slow and late to react to balls. I loved him coming into this year but I don’t want anything to do with him. Same with Kendrick on Clemson. Every time I watched either this year they were getting picked on.

 

Could have been out of shape or playing through pain.  The way the offseason went for Big 10 players was rough and a lot of them had disappointing individual years.  I still think he could end up being an outstanding player in a Desmond King role based on his 2019 tape.  Put them in the right system and players like him can be highly valuable.

 

I haven't put in the time watching Kendrick, but the commentary people seem to be saying he had a strong season.  Right off the bat, I'd want to know what the suspensions were about.  If it's nothing too troublesome, I'd be interested.  He might not be a round one player, but day two could be good value.

[Skinsinparadise]

I haven't paid much attention to Wade, I see Brugler isn't a fan albeit I far from always agree with him on players. 

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

31 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Could have been out of shape or playing through pain.  The way the offseason went for Big 10 players was rough and a lot of them had disappointing individual years.  I still think he could end up being an outstanding player in a Desmond King role based on his 2019 tape.  Put them in the right system and players like him can be highly valuable.

 

I haven't put in the time watching Kendrick, but the commentary people seem to be saying he had a strong season.  Right off the bat, I'd want to know what the suspensions were about.  If it's nothing too troublesome, I'd be interested.  He might not be a round one player, but day two could be good value.

Honestly I feel more and more that corner is the biggest boom/bust in the draft and it always seems to lean towards bust, especially in the second round. For every Trevarious White or Lattimore or Carlton Davis there’s a Deandre Baker, Isaiah Oliver, Mike Hughes, Joejuan Williams... guys I get duped by that just lost their confidence early and never got if back. My eyes tell me if a guy slides because he regresses then rarely do they get back to that level again.

Edited January 2, 2021 by PartyPosse

[actorguy1]

Really curious to see old takes on previous Comprehensive Draft threads. I've tried multiple times to search for previous threads and have come up empty. What's my problem lol?

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Honestly I feel more and more that corner is the biggest boom/bust in the draft and it always seems to lean towards bust, especially in the second round. For every Trevarious White or Lattimore or Carlton Davis there’s a Deandre Baker, Isaiah Oliver, Mike Hughes, Joejuan Williams... guys I get duped by that just lost their confidence early and never got if back. My eyes tell me if a guy slides because he regresses then rarely do they get back to that level again.

 

 

Confidence is a trait that is required to succeed in the NFL.  Haskins failed here for a ton of reasons, but I think he lost his confidence (compare his performance to that against Philly and NYG to end the year last year).

[Anselmheifer]

I don’t see what anyone sees with Skalski. He’s tough. But I agree with the take that he looks like a 1980’s LB. he’s not going to be able to cover in the NFL and every down is a passing down now. There’s no such thing as a 2 down LB. and it appears that he’s malicious to the point of being stupid. He was ejected for targeting in the playoffs two times in a row? Come on. 
 

I think Werner could be a really good fit. I liked his play in coverage and blitzing. 

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I haven't paid much attention to Wade, I see Brugler isn't a fan albeit I far from always agree with him on players. 

 

 

 

His crystal ball game is strong. You think Bruges will give me 2021 results for betting purposes?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

13 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Confidence is a trait that is required to succeed in the NFL.  Haskins failed here for a ton of reasons, but I think he lost his confidence (compare his performance to that against Philly and NYG to end the year last year).

It’s vital no doubt but as a corner if it’s clear you’re mentally beat it’s hard to come back from that in a game. A QB will continue to pick on you over and over much like what Fields did against Kendrick. Haskins actually didn’t have a confidence problem (at least that’s not what did him in). If anything he had too much confidence and that led him to not working hard to fine-tune his craft. He had no technique or footwork. Corners just need to be able to cover more or less.

[86 Snyder]

Lamar Jackson's rushing ability is unlike ANY other quarterback and its pretty useless to compare guys against him.  He has the speed and elusiveness of Vick but on a frame suitable to handle hits that a running back is accustomed to taking.  He's a freak in that regard.  Lamar is a 1 of 1.

 

Fields has nice mobility and wheels but its several notches below Lamar.  On the other hand, his passing ability far exceeds Lamar's.  Theres a lot of Prescott in his game but I think he throws a prettier ball than Dak and seems more graceful.  My biggest question about him is pre-snap ability.  I simply don't know as I dont watch a ton of college ball.  Is he a conductor at the line of scrimmage or ar least show signs of potential?  Leadership and toughness intangibles are very obviously there.  If he's addicted to the playbook hes bust proof in my mind.

 

Re: Lawrence

Everytime I watch him, I feel like I'm missing something.  The hype is so strong and I see a very very good player but not quite this automatic HOF guy people are touting.  I'm just taking everyone's word for how good he is but if being totally honest I don't quite see the absolute stud most are describing.  

[Anselmheifer]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I’d be interested to know what Rivera’s view on Holcomb was for 2021. He seems to draw the greatest praise. I would like to know what his expected role in 2021 was. 

 

Moving the LB conversation out of the QB thread. I shouldn’t have started it there! 
 

Holcomb is far and away our best rated LB by PFF. He scores around an 80, which is actually quite good. I think ideally he’d be our second best LB and we’d have a more dominant lead LB alongside him. 

KDawg, can you give me your breakdown of Jabril Cox? 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Lamar Jackson's rushing ability is unlike ANY other quarterback and its pretty useless to compare guys against him.  He has the speed and elusiveness of Vick but on a frame suitable to handle hits that a running back is accustomed to taking.  He's a freak in that regard.  Lamar is a 1 of 1.

 

Fields has nice mobility and wheels but its several notches below Lamar.  On the other hand, his passing ability far exceeds Lamar's.  Theres a lot of Prescott in his game but I think he throws a prettier ball than Dak and seems more graceful.  My biggest question about him is pre-snap ability.  I simply don't know as I dont watch a ton of college ball.  Is he a conductor at the line of scrimmage or ar least show signs of potential?  Leadership and toughness intangibles are very obviously there.  If he's addicted to the playbook hes bust proof in my mind.

 

Re: Lawrence

Everytime I watch him, I feel like I'm missing something.  The hype is so strong and I see a very very good player but not quite this automatic HOF guy people are touting.  I'm just taking everyone's word for how good he is but if being totally honest I don't quite see the absolute stud most are describing.  

I think we see both guys the same. I agree.

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Moving the LB conversation out of the QB thread. I shouldn’t have started it there! 
 

Holcomb is far and away our best rated LB by PFF. He scores around an 80, which is actually quite good. I think ideally he’d be our second best LB and we’d have a more dominant lead LB alongside him. 

KDawg, can you give me your breakdown of Jabril Cox? 

Jabril Cox (North Dakota State/LSU) - This is my sleeper of the group. Dude can cover, play sideline to sideline and tackle. Plays with instincts. Not afraid to attack. He's going to be a player.

[Berggy9598]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don't think he was trying to throw it away. I saw what I think he saw. He was waiting for the receiver to get open and he was going to try to put the ball in the back of the end zone lofted over the coverage's heads. I think he had the right idea. It was there. The problem was that he didn't sense the pressure and step aside (probably in part due to his injury) and open the pocket better for him to make that throw. Instead that ball got deflected and landed in Clemson's hands.

He did a great job of moving to give himself a cleaner launch point on the first long TD to Olave. He released the ball right away too so it definitely looked like it was a purposeful movement. Considering how relatively infrequently he's had to change launch points in the pocket I was impressed with how natural it all looked. 

[Anselmheifer]

The length of the Roullier contract times out perfectly for Sweat and Young’s extensions. Smart. 
 

We need to continue drafting OL. Even if we resign Scherff, he’s hurt every year. And Moses is towards the end of his contract. 
 

A guy like Alijah Vera Tucker could make a lot of sense for us, if he falls to the 2nd. Could back up OG and OT and eventually he the plan to replace a starter.