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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


zCommander

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Yeah LB and FS are HUGE black holes. CB is okay, it could use a talent upgrade but its not as bad as those other two. Its great having one real good unit but if other positions are literally league worst you'll get exposed by good offenses. There is a reason why we've given up 30 points to just about every good QB we've played this year.

 

I'd kill for someone like London Fletcher manning MLB. Imagine him behind this DL.

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1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Watching them pound a huge back through tight running lanes into wide open space with a head of steam was so frustrating. We need LBers to stop that and a back that can do those things.

I like Gibson. He was clearly still hurting last night and lacked explosiveness. I'm excited to see what he can do with a year under his belt and an entire offseason to develop as a back.

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This is the kind of class I've been shooting for on TDN mocks but can't ever totally get:

 

1 - Zaven Collins or J O-K.  Collins is there like 70% of the time, but I think that will eventually change.

 

2 - Eichenberg is who I try and get but he's almost never there.  Sometimes Leatherwood is still available here.  Usually a couple of Trey Smith and Landon Dickerson and Deonte Brown and Josh Myers are there too.  But Rondale Moore is typically too hard to pass up at this pick if he's available.  I've gotten Brevin Jordan here a bunch of times too.

 

IRL I wouldn't mind seeing us play our first two picks in such a way that we move back in the first and then move up in the second to see if we can get Owusu Koromoah and Eichenberg.

 

3 - Paris Ford is who I almost always pick with this first third rounder.

 

3 - Rashad Weaver or Twyman.  Can almost always get Weaver here, but Twyman is often still on the board too.  This is one of my favorite value picks of the class.

 

4 - Gainwell or Hubbard are usually still available.  Especially Hubbard so I'll tend to pick him if Gainwell is gone.

 

5 - Darden or Atwell are almost always still available, and so is Justyn Ross.  Double up on WR here, but I look for TEs too.  I used to pick Brant Kuithe here but I can't find him on their board any more.  I guess he's not declaring this year.

 

I don't go past round five since we don't have a sixth round pick.  If we did, I would target Cole Van Lanen or Noah Grey there.

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Just now, Warhead36 said:

I like Gibson. He was clearly still hurting last night and lacked explosiveness. I'm excited to see what he can do with a year under his belt and an entire offseason to develop as a back.

Oh, I love Gibson, but I don't think he's best served pounding the rock into a wall like last night. Fournette would be a good complimentary back for Gibson I think. That's why I'm so high on Harris. It's not a knock on Gibson at all. I think he has Edge or Faulk potential. It's Barber who I want to upgrade. That's a nasty 1 2 punch and McKissic is a fantastic 3rd down back.

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3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I’m not at the stage of thinking Heinicke is our #1. Great performance in the circumstance, but for 202, him as the incumbent #1, that seems like a risky approach to me. But time will tell. I’m comfortable overall though, it’s convinced me we don’t need to sell the farm to acquire a QB this offseason, either by trading away picks or taking on a significant FA contract.

 

The game exposed our other needs, as you noted in the FA thread, we need those picks and we need that cap space to plug numerous gaps.

 

Workhorse RB, couple of receivers, could of backers and some DB upgrade. At the very least.

I would say there is a need for another good  TE as well as a third competent  one. If Thomas goes down at any point this offense would be in trouble. He was extremely durable this year.

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11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Lavonte David is almost the perfect fit to elevate this defense or someone of his ilk.  I recall how after letting Antonio Pierce leave in FA how our vaunted defense fell off a cliff back then.  London Fletcher elevated it back.  I know PFF for example likes to play down the value of a MLB but some of the better defenses in the league typically have a stud MLB.   I know its hot on Rivera's off season to do list because he's referred to the spot several times.  In a recent interview he even said he thinks the main missing ingredient is he needs his Luke Keuchly.

 

I've given up on the value of PFF grading and analysis.  I don't think they are good.  What they do was interesting at first but they've vastly oversold their ability to judge contribution and impact as well as predict future outcomes.  I recognize that many like their work, but it's not convincing to me any more.  I think they are incompetent at weighting and evaluating run game impact and it skews their entire view on football.  Derek Henry has single handedly exposed their analysis as fraudulent.

 

At any rate, if we had two legit good stack linebackers, I do think it would make the D special, and that is the missing ingredient in our run D.  Fred Warner was perhaps an under recognized component of the greatness of SFs D last year.  And seeing David and Wagner do their things yesterday was fun.  It's not just about chasing and hitting, Wagner in particular is such a good team defender.  He creates so many good clean up opportunities for the pursuit and that is key for stopping so many runs around the LoS.  It's a pity Seattle's DL has fallen off so much, a guy like him would be amazing here.

 

I look forward to going through this LB class.  LBer is an enjoyable position to watch, but for now, I've been fixated on Owusu-Koromoah and Collins as two of our best non QB options for the first round.

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28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Watching them pound a huge back through tight running lanes into wide open space with a head of steam was so frustrating. We need LBers to stop that and a back that can do those things.

Yup. Two major priorities in my eyes. Shoring up the OL and a bellcow back as one (yes, they go together) and a linebacker that can play downhill.

 

Holcomb does everything you want a LB to do... except play downhill. 
 

Beyond that, I think it’s important we shore up receiver and free safety. Even with slight upgrades. I don’t think we need Allen Robinson. We need a Corey Davis. Hopefully Harmon can play a little and we get a mid round rookie that can play and our WR corps is looking real good.

 

RB is a must. Gibson can’t get healthy and McKissick is a niche runner. Those two in conjunction with a bellcow become MUCH more dangerous as well.

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I want to see what Gibson can do in year 2 as a full time starter. But I'd never be opposed to drafting a back in the middle rounds. Can never have enough good ones.

 

WR to me is more of a FA upgrade than draft. We have enough talented but raw young WRs. Need a proven veteran #2 type. Corey Davis might be too expensive. I'd look at Curtis Samuel.

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7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yup. Two major priorities in my eyes. Shoring up the OL and a bellcow back as one (yes, they go together) and a linebacker that can play downhill.

 

Holcomb does everything you want a LB to do... except play downhill. 
 

Beyond that, I think it’s important we shore up receiver and free safety. Even with slight upgrades. I don’t think we need Allen Robinson. We need a Corey Davis. Hopefully Harmon can play a little and we get a mid round rookie that can play and our WR corps is looking real good.

 

RB is a must. Gibson can’t get healthy and McKissick is a niche runner. Those two in conjunction with a bellcow become MUCH more dangerous as well.

With the priority of spending big on a FA QB probably silenced that leaves a lot of cap to go after a MLB and a WR. If we can't sign a high end MLB, I'd go after Simmons or Maye to play FS.

 

With our first I'm good with moving around for Collins too. Regardless of what we do in FA. I think he has a chance to be special, just being 260 and that freaking fast. Fits our theme.

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35 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This is the kind of class I've been shooting for on TDN mocks but can't ever totally get:

 

1 - Zaven Collins or J O-K.  Collins is there like 70% of the time, but I think that will eventually change.

 

2 - Eichenberg is who I try and get but he's almost never there.  Sometimes Leatherwood is still available here.  Usually a couple of Trey Smith and Landon Dickerson and Deonte Brown and Josh Myers are there too.  But Rondale Moore is typically too hard to pass up at this pick if he's available.  I've gotten Brevin Jordan here a bunch of times too.

 

IRL I wouldn't mind seeing us play our first two picks in such a way that we move back in the first and then move up in the second to see if we can get Owusu Koromoah and Eichenberg.

 

3 - Paris Ford is who I almost always pick with this first third rounder.

 


Imagine how much better this defense looks with Zaven Collins and Paris Ford. And getting Ioannidis back. Young in his second year. 
 

My fantasy scenario is that Heinicke is the guy, we upgrade the offense massively through free agency, and invest in the defense in the draft, as above. 
 

I also think we could use a CB1 if we are going to have a truly elite defense. Something like the trade Philly made for Darius Slay could really help us. Moreland was getting killed last night. Adding a top corner, bumping Darby to CB2 and Fuller to the inside would have a ton of rippling benefits for this defense. 

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42 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This is the kind of class I've been shooting for on TDN mocks but can't ever totally get:

 

1 - Zaven Collins or J O-K.  Collins is there like 70% of the time, but I think that will eventually change.

 

2 - Eichenberg is who I try and get but he's almost never there.  Sometimes Leatherwood is still available here.  Usually a couple of Trey Smith and Landon Dickerson and Deonte Brown and Josh Myers are there too.  But Rondale Moore is typically too hard to pass up at this pick if he's available.  I've gotten Brevin Jordan here a bunch of times too.

 

IRL I wouldn't mind seeing us play our first two picks in such a way that we move back in the first and then move up in the second to see if we can get Owusu Koromoah and Eichenberg.

 

3 - Paris Ford is who I almost always pick with this first third rounder.

 

3 - Rashad Weaver or Twyman.  Can almost always get Weaver here, but Twyman is often still on the board too.  This is one of my favorite value picks of the class.

 

4 - Gainwell or Hubbard are usually still available.  Especially Hubbard so I'll tend to pick him if Gainwell is gone.

 

5 - Darden or Atwell are almost always still available, and so is Justyn Ross.  Double up on WR here, but I look for TEs too.  I used to pick Brant Kuithe here but I can't find him on their board any more.  I guess he's not declaring this year.

 

I don't go past round five since we don't have a sixth round pick.  If we did, I would target Cole Van Lanen or Noah Grey there.

 

 

I don't think Collins falls to 19.  He's a big 3-down LB.  Incredibly rare in today's NFL.  Bostic was a total liability last night.  NE loves those players.  Dallas could take him.  He's going to be long-gone.  I'm not taking a WR at 19 unless its Smith, Chase (no chance either is there IMO), or Waddle (doubt he's there, but I can see it).  Cam Sims is way too inconsistent with his hands to be relied upon.  He's big, but he's lumbering.

 

I can live with J-O-K, but I'd think Harris would transform the offense if he's there.  LT is a pseudo major need (Lucas is a pretty bad run-blocker).  Heck, maybe we go after Trent :) in FA.

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Yeah a top notch CB would be huge. Another example is Jalen Ramsey on the Rams. He completely shuts down one side of the field which buys that DL an extra second to get to the QB. I'm not saying go out and get a Ramsey, that's unreasonable and guys like that are almost never available, but the impact is undeniable.

 

I feel like our D outside the DL was mostly smoke and mirrors this year. If you look at our games against good QBs/offenses, we got lit up almost every time. Other then Seattle every above average offense dropped 30 on us(and I guess Pittsburgh but I don't know what their offensive ranking ended up being).

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1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah a top notch CB would be huge. Another example is Jalen Ramsey on the Rams. He completely shuts down one side of the field which buys that DL an extra second to get to the QB. I'm not saying go out and get a Ramsey, that's unreasonable and guys like that are almost never available, but the impact is undeniable.

 

I feel like our D outside the DL was mostly smoke and mirrors this year. If you look at our games against good QBs/offenses, we got lit up almost every time. Other then Seattle every above average offense dropped 30 on us(and I guess Pittsburgh but I don't know what their offensive ranking ended up being).

 

 

Moreland is better outside, but he doesn't have the speed.  He's just a 7th rounder.  CB is a major need too.  Fabian is a FA as is Darby.  Its a major need going forward.  Fuller was solid this year, but as we saw yesterday, he's not going to shut down guys like Mike Evans (who can.  He's a 6'5 monster).

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7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

I feel like our D outside the DL was mostly smoke and mirrors this year. If you look at our games against good QBs/offenses, we got lit up almost every time. Other then Seattle every above average offense dropped 30 on us(and I guess Pittsburgh but I don't know what their offensive ranking ended up being).

I've been thinking about this and I think I don't entirely but mostly agree. I think we can all agree that our top 6 D Linemen comprise a very good unit. I think our DBs are average/slightly above average while our linebackers comprise a below average unit. At times, I thought Darby played really well as did Fuller. Mooreland flashed at times, too. And, of course, Kurl caught all our eyes as a rookie. So, I think DB might be okay. Where we fall apart is covering tight ends and holding the edge on any kind of outside running play.

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11 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I don't think Collins falls to 19.  He's a big 3-down LB.  Incredibly rare in today's NFL.  Bostic was a total liability last night.  NE loves those players.  Dallas could take him.  He's going to be long-gone.  I'm not taking a WR at 19 unless its Smith, Chase (no chance either is there IMO), or Waddle (doubt he's there, but I can see it).  Cam Sims is way too inconsistent with his hands to be relied upon.  He's big, but he's lumbering.

 

I can live with J-O-K, but I'd think Harris would transform the offense if he's there.  LT is a pseudo major need (Lucas is a pretty bad run-blocker).  Heck, maybe we go after Trent :) in FA.

I thought about the last point of going after Trent.  May be a possibility.  

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20 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I don't think Collins falls to 19.  He's a big 3-down LB.  Incredibly rare in today's NFL.  Bostic was a total liability last night.  NE loves those players.  Dallas could take him.  He's going to be long-gone.  I'm not taking a WR at 19 unless its Smith, Chase (no chance either is there IMO), or Waddle (doubt he's there, but I can see it).  Cam Sims is way too inconsistent with his hands to be relied upon.  He's big, but he's lumbering.

 

The way TDN has their board ranked, J-O-K consistently goes before Collins in the first round.  He usually goes in like the teens, but he also got picked top ten by Detroit at least once that I remember.  And Collins is available at 19 like 70-75% of the time.  I think IRL that situation will be flipped.  I expect Collins to go somewhere in the early to mid teens, and J-O-K to either get picked by us at 19 or go somewhere in the 20s.

 

Another frequent outcome in TDN mocks that I've been getting that feels super unrealistic is that Zach Wilson has been available at 19 several times.  I expect him to move up their board quite a bit as we approach the draft.

 

Neither Waddle nor Chase has ever been available to me at 19, and I'm no longer getting a crack at DeVonta Smith any more.  Waddle almost always goes top ten in the mocks and Chase has gone as high as #2 in many of them.  Smith is usually soon after.  I think Bateman is typically gone as well.  It's starting to feel like we're not going to get a shot at any of the current round one WRs.  I'm not sure how realistic that truly is, but that appears to be the current scenario.

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18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah a top notch CB would be huge. Another example is Jalen Ramsey on the Rams. He completely shuts down one side of the field which buys that DL an extra second to get to the QB. I'm not saying go out and get a Ramsey, that's unreasonable and guys like that are almost never available, but the impact is undeniable.

 

I feel like our D outside the DL was mostly smoke and mirrors this year. If you look at our games against good QBs/offenses, we got lit up almost every time. Other then Seattle every above average offense dropped 30 on us(and I guess Pittsburgh but I don't know what their offensive ranking ended up being).

 

It absolutely has been. The DL made the rest of the D look more competent than it was.

 

I feel like a broken record... But you can't be a good defense with bad linebackers.

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This is the kind of class I've been shooting for on TDN mocks but can't ever totally get:

 

1 - Zaven Collins or J O-K.  Collins is there like 70% of the time, but I think that will eventually change.

 

2 - Eichenberg is who I try and get but he's almost never there.  Sometimes Leatherwood is still available here.  Usually a couple of Trey Smith and Landon Dickerson and Deonte Brown and Josh Myers are there too.  But Rondale Moore is typically too hard to pass up at this pick if he's available.  I've gotten Brevin Jordan here a bunch of times too.

 

IRL I wouldn't mind seeing us play our first two picks in such a way that we move back in the first and then move up in the second to see if we can get Owusu Koromoah and Eichenberg.

 

3 - Paris Ford is who I almost always pick with this first third rounder.

 

3 - Rashad Weaver or Twyman.  Can almost always get Weaver here, but Twyman is often still on the board too.  This is one of my favorite value picks of the class.

 

4 - Gainwell or Hubbard are usually still available.  Especially Hubbard so I'll tend to pick him if Gainwell is gone.

 

5 - Darden or Atwell are almost always still available, and so is Justyn Ross.  Double up on WR here, but I look for TEs too.  I used to pick Brant Kuithe here but I can't find him on their board any more.  I guess he's not declaring this year.

 

I don't go past round five since we don't have a sixth round pick.  If we did, I would target Cole Van Lanen or Noah Grey there.

 

I like Collins and J.O.K. a lot.

 

I'd struggle with the decision between one of them or Najee, but ultimately my senses would win out and I'd go with the backer. But I'd want to find a bellcow back. 

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10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It absolutely has been. The DL made the rest of the D look more competent than it was.

 

I feel like a broken record... But you can't be a good defense with bad linebackers.

 

I like Collins and J.O.K. a lot.

 

I'd struggle with the decision between one of them or Najee, but ultimately my senses would win out and I'd go with the backer. But I'd want to find a bellcow back. 

Yesterday showed me the importance of a physical bruising RB always falling forward and getting 3-4 yards minimum. However, yesterday also showed that sometimes these guys are out there. I love Najee and think he would really compliment the offense, but tbh, why not sign Fournette to a short term deal instead and use our first at a true position of need? 

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33 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:


Imagine how much better this defense looks with Zaven Collins...

Looks like the 1st rd will line up for us. If not Zaven,then Harris, a top OL or at the least a top W/r should be available to us at 19.  Controlling the los would still remain the focus for me tho.

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Just now, PartyPosse said:

Yesterday showed me the importance of a physical bruising RB always falling forward and getting 3-4 yards minimum. However, yesterday also showed that sometimes these guys are out there. I love Najee and think he would really compliment the offense, but tbh, why not sign Fournette to a short term deal instead and use our first at a true position of need? 

Well, RB is a true position of need. But I'm not against signing a bellcow in FA for the right cost.

 

I prefer Najee, but I am more than okay with addressing it in another way and using the first on something else.

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2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The way TDN has their board ranked, J-O-K consistently goes before Collins in the first round.  He usually goes in like the teens, but he also got picked top ten by Detroit at least once that I remember.  And Collins is available at 19 like 70-75% of the time.  I think IRL that situation will be flipped.  I expect Collins to go somewhere in the early to mid teens, and J-O-K to either get picked by us at 19 or go somewhere in the 20s.

 

Another frequent outcome in TDN mocks that I've been getting that feels super unrealistic is that Zach Wilson has been available at 19 several times.  I expect him to move up their board quite a bit as we approach the draft.

 

Neither Waddle nor Chase has ever been available to me at 19, and I'm no longer getting a crack at DeVonta Smith any more.  Waddle almost always goes top ten in the mocks and Chase has gone as high as #2 in many of them.  Smith is usually soon after.  I think Bateman is typically gone as well.  It's starting to feel like we're not going to get a shot at any of the current round one WRs.  I'm not sure how realistic that truly is, but that appears to be the current scenario.

 

 

I think looking at team needs (and FA signings are more indicative of what'll happen).

 

1). Jax-(QB)-Lawrence (Set in stone)

2). Nyj-(QB, WR)-Fields (Think they go QB and take Fields.  We should actually root for a Fields explosion in the title game.  Darnold has regressed)

3). Mia-(WR, RB, T (only for Sewell, trade down)-Chase (If they can't trade down, I still say Chase is the pick over Smith due to his size)

4). Atl-(any defensive position, QB)-Wilson (Their cap is screwed.  Taking Parsons doesn't make sense.  Sewell is BPA, but Matthews is a solid LT.  Might as well take QB of the future and let him sit)

5). Cin (T, any defender)-Sewell (If he's there, he's the pick)

6). Philly (WR, LB, Secondary)-Smith (WR is a major need.  Linebacker is a major need, but their FO doesn't prioritize it.

7). Detroit (any defender, WR, QB of the future)-Parsons (Davis has been a bust.  Their LBs are super slow.  Can see Lance here)

8).  Carolina (QB, CB, TE)-Lance (They know Teddy isn't the future)

9). Denver (QB, CB, LB)-Surtain (I see them trading up (possibly to 4 to take a QB.  I won't do trades in this mock, but that's a scenario I've been contemplating)

10). Dallas (any defender, LT)-Collins (Pitts is probably BPA, but Jaylon Smith is probably cut in the off-season and LVE is too injury prone)

11). Nyg (Skill position, edge rusher)-Pitts (Hate him in the division.  Engram stinks)

12). SF (QB, CB, Edge)-Payne (Could see Mac Jones here)

13). Chargers (O-line, WR, LB)-Slater (thrilled to see him fall here)

14). Minnesota (O-line, DT)-Darrisow (Rieff is on his last legs)

15). NE (QB, Skill position, any defender)-Jones

16). AZ (CB, O-line)-Farley (Peterson looks done)

17). LV (any defender)-Russeau (Thought Ferrell would be better)

18). Miami (RB)-Harris (Sucks for us, but he'd be great there)

19). Was-Waddle (Probably BPA here)

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I like Collins and J.O.K. a lot.

 

I'd struggle with the decision between one of them or Najee, but ultimately my senses would win out and I'd go with the backer. But I'd want to find a bellcow back. 

 

For me it's a question of depth.  I don't have enough knowledge of the LB class to be confident in late round selections there so I go with the two guys I know I like in the first round, whereas I know I like the later round options at RB.

 

I'm not as fixated on getting a big power/short yardage back.  I'm mainly just looking for explosiveness and flexibility.  I'm looking to build in redundancy as Gibson's injury crippled the offense.  I want a guy with the speed to punish the defense, be dangerous on runs from the shotgun, and the best scenario is one where the guy can also block and catch.  Kind of chasing what I had hoped we were going to get from Bryce Love, who was the missing ingredient from our ground game this year IMO.  Perhaps it's obvious, but I view Gainwell as a really clean fit because he's basically the more accomplished version of Gibson.  He can play in the slot as much as we'd  need him to, be a good motion player, and be really good from shotgun runs.  And Hubbard is another go-to choice for me because I just feel like his speed is so special.  Again, I would love to get a running back that can fly and that's him.  Add him + a WR (or two) like Darden/Atwell/Moore and our offense's speed goes from plodding to threatening.

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