Grading Kyle Smith's off season (free agency, re-signings, draft)

[50yrSKINSfan]

3 hours ago, sportsnut said:

I can’t find the link but I recall reading that Atlanta offered their first round picks in 2021 and 2022 as well as pick 16 this year plus one additional pick this year.

Thank you for your response and all I can say is CY better be worth 4 good players if that was a legit offer. If our guy turned that offer then I would rank his draft as a F.

[Malapropismic Depository]

If Kyle Smith is this good at 35 years old, just imagine if we treat him right, we could have solid GM-ship in DC, for the remainder of our lifetimes

[sportsnut]

35 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Thank you for your response and all I can say is CY better be worth 4 good players if that was a legit offer. If our guy turned that offer then I would rank his draft as a F.

Maybe so.  But in his defense, pick 16 drops you out of blue chip range and I think the other pick this year was in the 4th or 5th round.

[drowland]

6 hours ago, Forehead said:

 

The only one I heard about was Atlanta, and they were at #16.  To drop from #2 to #16...I mean, we're talking something along the lines of the Saints giving away their entire draft at that point, right?  Probably in addition to a #1 next year.

 

And I would have done it for the change to get Sunshine from Clemson next year

 

I have a feeling Jon Gruden will offer future 1st rd picks equal to the number of years left in his contract to trade up to #1 for Lawrence.

[StepyagameuP]

53 minutes ago, sportsnut said:

Maybe so.  But in his defense, pick 16 drops you out of blue chip range and I think the other pick this year was in the 4th or 5th round.

And the 2021 and 2022 picks probably wont be top 12 picks. I would rather have one elite blue chipper, CY.

[NYSkins21]

On 4/25/2020 at 6:24 PM, jobaga said:

It finally feels like the rebuild this organization has desperately needed. I am sick and tired of the 6-10 to 10-6 range every year. They will suck this year. They will be in a position to attack next year's draft with I'm guessing a top 7 pick in every round. They will have plenty of money for free agents next year. I love this approach. They cleared out the malcontents and replaced them with workers. This team doesn't have divas. There will be a blue collar, hard working feel to this team. This season will allow the coaching staff to identify their core guys and move forward. I love it. I give them An A

Not sure how it could be viewed any other way? Not sure why anyone would expect a one-year complete turnaround of a 3-13 team, with two malcontent money seeking, egocentric stars making noise publicly, dead cap money, a poor non-directional losing culture, so on and so on.

 

Under all those conditions Kyle has done a great job. Sure he missed out on Cooper. I dont know how someone can fault him for that? If he did land Cooper, would people view this offseason as a success? We have a plan and that plan is to be patient and methodical as he builds this core.

 

What RR and Kyle have done in such a short period of time has been amazing to watch. And it's just getting started.

 

I'm giving him an A only because I want to leave a little room for when we look back on this in 2 years!

[JamesMadisonSkins]

We are not San Francisco. But they went from 2-14 to 14-2 on the back of their defense, run game and coaching. Our defense could be in elite territory and I think we have a very potent backfield. OL obviously a lot of questions.  I don’t think the playoffs are out of the question if Haskins has a sophomore breakout and Guice stays healthy. OL will be a bit shaky but otherwise I like the team top to bottom. It’s really filling out. 
 

My best guess for 2020 record assuming we have a relatively normal off season and regular season is 6-10 to 10-6. Depends on how our OL feels and Haskins develops. But I think we have a lot to look forward to 

[Bifflog]

3 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Thank you for your response and all I can say is CY better be worth 4 good players if that was a legit offer. If our guy turned that offer then I would rank his draft as a F.

 

Those two future picks are probably mid round, best case scenario.  Without knowing what havoc Covid is going to wreak on ability to scout at least the 2021 class, and considering they could be even more of a crapshoot, sometimes the big, badass bird in the hand is worth the entirety of the bush.

[NoVaSkins21]

On 4/25/2020 at 3:57 PM, Burgold said:

Trades: Both the trade for Quinton Dunbar and the trade of Williams probably was making lemonade out of lemons. Both worked as hard as they could to ruin their trade value for the 'skins and burn their bridges. That said, losing a 7-time probowler for a 5th rounder and a future 3rd rounder stinks. Losing your top cornerback for a 5th rounder also stinks. Just to be contrary, Dunbar could be viewed as an oft-injured malcontent and getting anything for him might be a win. During the draft itself, Smith never traded up or down. As I said above, he took the draft as it came to him. So, I'm going to give him a C just because he got something out of Dunbar and Williams. In a fair world, I really think that we should have gotten much more for Trent yet in this one, I don't know that we could have given the circumstances.

IMO, getting rid of the two malcontents ASAP was good for the team and it didn't matter what they got in return.  Could the return have been better maybe, but they're both gone which is what's best for the team.  You can't have the players calling the shots which was the case for so long.  

[sportsnut]

1 hour ago, SAli457180 said:

IMO, getting rid of the two malcontents ASAP was good for the team and it didn't matter what they got in return.  Could the return have been better maybe, but they're both gone which is what's best for the team.  You can't have the players calling the shots which was the case for so long.  

But we let Dunbar and Trent call the shots.  They didn’t want to play for us even though they were under contract.  We granted their wish and traded them to super bowl contenders.  In trent’s case, we let his agent veto trades and orchestrate where he goes.

 

Although I see your point about not wanting malcontents on the team.

[NYSkins21]

15 hours ago, Gibbs828791 said:

At least partially true for sure but there was no excuse to trade him for what they got for him right now just because you are tired of answering questions and dealing with it. Heck I would of never traded him for the crap they got. What a crappy offseason for these guys.

 

I am really starting to see why Ron had a bunch of 6 and 7 win teams.  We will be 4-12 this year but hey we will have a ton of character.

I think you're missing what RR truly wants. Sure he wants high character guys. But he wants guys that buy into the system. Buy into the unit. It starts there...

 

Look at the successful teams in the playoffs last year.

 

KC and Andy Reid's system. Sure they have Mahomes, Kelce and Hill but who else would you would consider top tier talent?

 

New England and BB's system? Brady, Edleman and who?

 

Tennesesse and Vrabel system? Henry, AJ Brown?

 

San Fran and Shanny system? Kittle and Dline?

 

Baltimore and Harbaugh system? Lamar Jackson?

 

So on and so forth. Point is, you need to find players that will fit schematicly and that will buy into that scheme. Not the other way around. Character helps that process.

 

We are witnessing the beginning process of that and it is such a beautiful thing!

[NYSkins21]

11 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

I don't fault Kyle for what happened in FA. Free agency should be the final pieces for a team that can take you over the hump.... Not the foundational pieces of your football team (something we've never seemed to grasp).

If your building the foundation with your culture and scheme in mind, it doesnt matter. Does the player fit both?

 

It's like using the bullpen to start the game in baseball. Start with free agency to fill some roles. The bulk of the innings will be played out with draft picks.

[Mr. Sinister]

5 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

If your building the foundation with your culture and scheme in mind, it doesnt matter. Does the player fit both?

 

It's like using the bullpen to start the game in baseball. Start with free agency to fill some roles. The bulk of the innings will be played out with draft picks.

 

I'm a baseball purist who believes that opening the game with the bp is Communism 😂

 

But I get what you're saying. I just think it's more ideal when done the opposite way. Sure, in that scenario, they may help you get there being a foundational piece, but by the time you're ready to compete, they've already left their best years out on the field.

[NYSkins21]

1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I'm a baseball purist who believes that opening the game with the bp is Communism 😂

 

But I get what you're saying. I just think it's more ideal when done the opposite way. Sure, in that scenario, they may help you get there being a foundational piece, but by the time you're ready to compete, they've already left their best years out on the field.

Lol. I get it. I'm a baseball purest as well when it comes to rules but I like to think outside the box a bit and if I can use it to my advantage and it doesn't threaten the integrity of whatever it, I'm all for it.

 

I get what your saying. And in most cases your right. Dont want to sign a high priced veteran for 4 years and be ready to win in 3. But I think in this case it works for us.

[Gibbs828791]

6 hours ago, NYSkins21 said:

 Not sure why anyone would expect a one-year complete turnaround of a 3-13 team, with two malcontent money seeking, egocentric stars making noise publicly, dead cap money, a poor non-directional losing culture, so on and so on.

 

Under all those conditions Kyle has done a great job. Sure he missed out on Cooper. I dont know how someone can fault him for that? If he did land Cooper, would people view this offseason as a success?

 

I'm giving him an A only because I want to leave a little room for when we look back on this in 2 years!

Some of what you say is true, but an A...cmon on. The problem isnt that he missed out on Cooper the problem is he didnt see he wasnt getting him and as a result we have the second most salary cap space and we didnt get Hooper, Hopkins, sign one of the top CBs, and let Flowers and Dunbar go.

 

People right now are grading this because it isnt Bruce and they are giving them the benefit of the doubt. If this was Bruce or next year after a 4-12 season folks are giving an F.

 

I dont need the benefit of the doubt, my two eyes see this offseason has been bad.

[wilco_holland]

I need to see it all on the field.

 

Trent hasn't played in a year but is our current LT better then Trent or vet replacement? Right now we got two unproven young guys. Did we improve in our back 4 where we struggled badly? Fuller is nice piece but Dunbar left. Norman also left. So need two fill two starting spot from early season. Safety might be a bit better. 

 

The only thing we really improved on his o-line depth, passrusher and more potential in off weapons. 

 

I know it's about culture and stuff. But pure player wise I don't think we took a huge step forward. So if we improve it will be all on the coaching staff. That they can get more out of this bunch then the previous. Imo

[terpfan44]

On 4/25/2020 at 3:57 PM, Burgold said:

 

 

 

Draft: Kyle Smith seems to be the kind of GM who lets the draft come to him. He is not a big wheeler/dealer or trader. He resists the big trade and goes for the obvious move or the falling player (Allen and Haskins). In 2020, the obvious move, picking Chase Young, could be an amazing one. Interestingly, there were almost no trades this year in the first half of round one, so I'm guessing that no blockbuster deals were out there. Based on that, going conservative was the way to go. As for the rest of the draft, I really don't know enough to speak intelligently so I won't try to. I like that we got a high potential OT and have heard enough cool things about Gibson as a receiver/Swiss army knife that I will drop my positional complaint. 

Grade: Better off letting someone else do this/ B maybe?

 

 

 

if you factor in M Sweat picked with the 2 from this year... it's even stronger ..  Rivera is not the wheeler dealer 

[DWinzit]

I will hold off on grading the off season until it is over. 

 

Many good players will be made available by trade or cap casualty and the Redskins have a fist full of dollars (loved that movie)

 

I would like to see them begin working to extend core players early instead of waiting until the last minute. Ion is one of the few times they have efforted this.

 

I would also like to see Scherff extended. I think that would send a good message veteran Redskins after living through the TW and Dunbar sagas

 

Keep adding team speed to both sides of the ball!

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

I need to see it all on the field.

Agreed.  

5 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Trent hasn't played in a year but is our current LT better then Trent or vet replacement? Right now we got two unproven young guys.
 

Yeah, oline is a concern for me.  Hopefully between Lucas/Charles and Martin/Schweitzer/Ismael we can field a serviceable left side...

5 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

Did we improve in our back 4 where we struggled badly? Fuller is nice piece but Dunbar left. Norman also left. So need two fill two starting spot from early season. Safety might be a bit better.
 

I think our depth is a touch better with Fuller and Darby, not sure about starting talent.  
I was thinking about the addition of Davis and the fact we cut Nicholson... did Davis have a hand in calling/captaining the secondary in Pittsburgh?

5 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

The only thing we really improved on his o-line depth, passrusher and more potential in off weapons. 

 

Besides oline and secondary, our linebacking corp was my big concern, especially given the scheme switch.  I think Thomas Davis was a sneaky good addition to this group in terms of experience and leadership.  

5 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

I know it's about culture and stuff. But pure player wise I don't think we took a huge step forward. So if we improve it will be all on the coaching staff. That they can get more out of this bunch then the previous. Imo

Hard to disagree here.  The changes personnel-wise feel more incremental and more about competition/depth.  

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I will hold off on grading the off season until it is over. 

 

Many good players will be made available by trade or cap casualty and the Redskins have a fist full of dollars (loved that movie)

 

I would like to see them begin working to extend core players early instead of waiting until the last minute. Ion is one of the few times they have efforted this.

 

I would also like to see Scherff extended. I think that would send a good message veteran Redskins after living through the TW and Dunbar sagas

 

Keep adding team speed to both sides of the ball!

And after dealing Trent, we have a few dollars more

 

[KDawg]

Copy and pasted from another thread:

 

The draft and the offseason were the same avenues. The team looked to add dynamic players to the roster that fit the Turner and Del Rio systems in a base building year.

 

This fan base undoubtedly believes that it has a core of players, but over the last x amount of years, that core has amounted to nothing. A new core had to be established, and has been. 
 

Taking a quick look at the players brought in, or already on the roster, they almost all have some versatility. The offensive linemen can play a little G/T or C/G.

 

Charles is a T or G.

 

Ismael is a G or T.

 

Piersbacher is a G/C.

 

Roullier can do both. 

 

McKissick is a receiver/RB.

 

Gibson is a receiver/RB.

 

Young is dynamic from a do-it-all perspective as an EDGE.

 

KPL is a versatile backer. As is Bostic. And Holcomb. And SDH. 
 

Allen can play defensive end or 3-tech (though will mostly be a 3.)

 

Ioan can play 1 or 3. 
 

Anderson can play rush end or a little backer. Kerrigan can do the same. 
 

Hudson is a LB/S. Collins can do the same things. Apke and Reaves to a lesser extent as well. Fuller can play slot CB, outside CB or FS. 

Even Kam Curl is a capable press corner or a safety (and I bet you he winds up being primarily a press corner for us). 

 

Thomas is more of a pass catching TE but a willing blocker. Hentges can do a little of both. Moss can do both. Sprinkle can do both. 
 

McLaurin can play outside or the slot, he won’t most of the time, but he can.

 

Gandy-Golden is an athlete that can be an open field threat or a red zone problem. 
 

Sims is a returner or a slot. 
 

Haskins has shown he can be mobile or a pocket QB. 
 

I understand the frustration with this offseason. On the surface this team doesn’t look a lot better skill wise. There are holes. There are warts. And this team may not be a whole heck of a lot better this year... but that foundation, man.
 

Every year can’t be a foundation year. But this has been a good offseason when you look at it from a building block perspective, in my opinion.

[Number 44]

6 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

I need to see it all on the field.

 

Trent hasn't played in a year but is our current LT better then Trent or vet replacement? Right now we got two unproven young guys. Did we improve in our back 4 where we struggled badly? Fuller is nice piece but Dunbar left. Norman also left. So need two fill two starting spot from early season. Safety might be a bit better. 

 

The only thing we really improved on his o-line depth, passrusher and more potential in off weapons. 

 

I know it's about culture and stuff. But pure player wise I don't think we took a huge step forward. So if we improve it will be all on the coaching staff. That they can get more out of this bunch then the previous. Imo

 

I think drafting Chase Young and allowing Sweat to rush the passer instead of dropping into coverage half the time will be a huge boost to our defensive backfield play.

[goskins10]

Virtually impossible to give a grade now due to the lack of data. So my grade is Incomplete.

 

Looking at ther different areas: 

 

Free Agency - I am one of the few that have no problem here. They do not know who they have and how each will fit into their systems. Why spend a huge amount of money that does not fit into what you end of doing. Also, RR is pretty much known for liking a draft development philosophy. We are never going to be big spenders and that's fine. They liked Toomer but they had cost limit and stuck to it. Discipline. 

 

Draft - I think most everyone would agree this is a strength. I like this draft. Have to admit I am not familiar with the back end of the draft but I like the first 4 picks for sure. 

 

Trades - I know he has taken a beating on Dunbar and Williams. Sure, it would have been nice to get more for each. But both ruined their trade value. Dunbar I do not get. But was clear he wanted out and regardless of who leaked his displeasure it really hurt the Skins chances to get much for him. 

 

Williams sits mostly on bruce. He hosed this up from day one. TW should have been gone last year for much better compensation. But it did not happen. They had to move him as his attitude was bad at this point. So he salvaged what he could. 

 

I think overall Kyle has done a good job and deserves to be GM - but much of that is speculation. Better to wait another season then decide. 

 

[Burgold]

To those saying, it's premature to grade the draft, trades, or free agency. Of course, it is. Then again, it isn't.

 

Think of this as a mid term grade or a quarterly review. The final grade isn't in, but there's been enough work done to make an assessment. The final, real, more full assessment won't take place 'til the end of this year and it could easily take longer than that. The true answer to this question, unless Kyle Smith is dismissed before hand, will be understood probably by the end of the 2021 season. At that point, we'll see if we've formed a core, a culture, and if the vision is working.

 

For now though, think of this as the first quarter grade of the school year or even an interim report. Besides which, grading is fun and it's what most of us do anyway.

 

Oh, and I probably should say it more but @KDawg and @Skinsinparadise I appreciate the work and expertise you put into it. Your posts are really fun and informative. I looked forward to reading each of you as soon as we made a draft pick to see if we did okay

[PlayAction]

If you believe the background stories then the Skins stuck to their board and didn't reach for need. I give them an A for discipline.  I might quibble on the 7th round DE because I think the Skins have plenty of developmental DEs already on the roster.  But if he was the best player there it doesn't matter anyway as he's most likely destined for the practice squad unless he's clearly better than the current depth.  I hope the WR/RB gadget guy turns out as well as the Skins hope.  He wasn't on my radar but I thought that teams would wait a bit before the full run on the top tier WRs.  

 

[HigSkin]

NFL average is 35% hit rate on draft picks.  I think Kyle's history is probably above that average even given being handicapped by BA and a disfunctional FO.  I expect things to be really good going forward with the synergy RR and Kyle have shown.