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Welcome to the Redskins Saahdiq Charles, OT LSU

zCommander

By zCommander
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JamesMadisonSkins

JamesMadisonSkins

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, skinsfan212689 said:

Geron Christian will be 24 yrs old this year. My god if he can put it together enough to supplant Moses that would be great. 

 

That’s not asking much right???
 

Hail


If Christian won RT and Charles won LT and both play well ... your bookend OTs would be 20 and 24 👀

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skinsfan212689

skinsfan212689

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:


If Christian won RT and Charles won LT and both play well ... your bookend OTs would be 20 and 24 👀

I’d like that I’m hoping GC can put it all together and stay healthy. Could be our 2020 surprise player. He played some right tackle in college as well. 

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COWBOY-KILLA-

COWBOY-KILLA-

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Is Geron Christian really that bad? Anytime he was thrust into action I thought he handled himself pretty well given his experience and circumstances. I never thought to myself, man we gotta get this guy outta there, he’s a liability.
 

Ive been thinking this for a while now, but I would not be shocked if he surprised a lot of people if he really gets his chance to roll with LT. He only has like 200+ snaps in his entire career. And is still super young. 
 

He’s gotta go earn it so we shall see how it all shakes out. I’m just not as down on him as some. 

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Mr. Sinister

Mr. Sinister

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Brian Mitchell talked to one of Charles' coaches who said Charles "has all the talent in the world. He just needs to mature just a little more"

Mitchell added "but who, at 20 years old, doesn't need to mature a little bit more ?"

 

I mean I guess it can be a different kind of maturity. Maturity as it pertains to mastering your craft? Or maturity as it pertains to the outside world, and all the potential distractions it brings.

 

Both carry different meaning/consequences.  But I agree, overall, at 20 , he can improve,  and the book isn't done being written 

Edited by Mr. Sinister
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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, dyst said:

Pretty much. Its just fan optimism and I get it, but funny in a way. How many 1st rounders have we drafted in the later rounds now?

 

At least two recently. Although I don't expect Charles to add to the total.

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GhostofAlvinWalton

GhostofAlvinWalton

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, skinsfan212689 said:

Geron Christian will be 24 yrs old this year. My god if he can put it together enough to supplant Moses that would be great. 

 

That’s not asking much right???
 

Hail

 

If he can maintain his stance up until the ball is snapped he'll be halfway there...

 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Is Geron Christian really that bad? Anytime he was thrust into action I thought he handled himself pretty well given his experience and circumstances. I never thought to myself, man we gotta get this guy outta there, he’s a liability.
 

Ive been thinking this for a while now, but I would not be shocked if he surprised a lot of people if he really gets his chance to roll with LT. He only has like 200+ snaps in his entire career. And is still super young. 
 

He’s gotta go earn it so we shall see how it all shakes out. I’m just not as down on him as some. 

 

Christian had a much more limited sample size last season but per PFF's grades overall he didn't seem much worse than Penn or Moses. In fact, on pass blocking he was graded higher than both of them. His biggest issue was run blocking it seems (by a large margin).

 

 

In 146 snaps played in 2019, Christian had the following PFF grades:

 

Overall: 63.0

Pass Blocking: 72.0

Run Blocking: 53.1

 

 

In 885 snaps played in 2019, Penn had the following PFF grades:

 

Overall: 64.1

Pass Blocking: 64.1

Run Blocking: 63.2

 

 

In 858 snaps played in 2019, Moses had the following PFF grades:

 

Overall: 65.2

Pass Blocking: 69.5

Run Blocking: 60.8

 

 

Seems that if Christian can improve his run blocking he could be a really good Tackle as that pass blocking grade is pretty good, especially for a young guy who's still relatively new to the NFL.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
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We had a discussion in the Keith Ismael thread about anchoring, and this gif is germane to that, but it's a Saahdiq Charles rep so I'm posting it here:

 

giphy.gif

 

Here you have Charles anchoring David Marshall for 8 seconds.  It was quite a rep, and you see a good demonstration of the technique when Marshall tries to re-direct back the the outside after the initial inside rush got stymied.  Charles stays engaged, keeps his feet working post and set, post and set, and he sinks his hips.  He sits down on Marshall for the rest of the snap and Marshall just can't get to Burrow no matter how he counters or changes plan.

 

I've been going back over some LSU OL cutups, and Charles's pass protection looks fairly well developed to me.  His scouting reports have complained about a lack of power and ability to anchor, but I'm not sure I agree with that take now that I've been looking out for it.  He's got some really good snaps in pass protection like this one in his film.  Raekwon Davis got him on skates a few times, but that's an unusual match up because most edge players aren't going to put Charles at that kind of size disadvantage--Davis is basically the size of a high percentile offensive tackle.  Saw some missed blitz pick ups, but nothing that far out of the ordinary.

 

So we can probably conclude that Charles will have some issues with length, but I think he should otherwise be able to hold up on the edge in pass pro against most match ups.

 

I noticed a balance and accuracy issue in his run blocking.  He'll lunge after being too aggressive with his angle rather than being patient and letting the play and his block develop.  He's not in Josh Jones's world as a run blocker.  And he's not a road grader, he's a positional blocker who wins by beating defenders to their fits.  So maybe that's where the complaint about his functional power shows up.

 

I'm sticking to my take that we should try him at tackle first and only play him at guard if he doesn't play well on the outside.  His quickness is more of an asset at tackle.

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@stevemcqueen1 He has elite feet for an OT imo. I would start him there as well in terms of his development.

 

That was definitely some really nice resetting of his feet and anchoring in that clip. Though I'd be hesitant about trying to throw him out there too soon, especially with such limited practice due to the covid-19 situation. I'd like to see if Christian has progressed as a run blocker, as that was his main weakness last season. IIRC though that was one of the issues with him coming out as well. Very nimble and athletic for his size, really good length, good mirroring and footwork in pass pro, but wasn't all that great as a run blocker. Seems that followed him into the NFL. 

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COWBOY-KILLA-

COWBOY-KILLA-

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@mistertim Agreed, I’d def give Christian the opportunity to hold it down. No rush really on Charles. I think he’s gonna be really good long term.  That’s why going against our dline is gonna be really helpful for our young lineman. We are gonna know who can handle the heat In The kitchen. Whoever wins it, it will have been earned.

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GhostofAlvinWalton

GhostofAlvinWalton

Posted
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Unless I'm misremembering (which is possible due to the ole malt, hops, & bong resin issue) didn't Rivera already say Charles was going to start off at LT and that he would also learn a little LG as well because they like the OLmen to know what the guy next to them is supposed to be doing?  So, unless I am totally imagining this, the decision has already been made to see if he can handle LT first.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@stevemcqueen1 He has elite feet for an OT imo. I would start him there as well in terms of his development.

 

Yeah, he's really nimble.  It allows him to compensate for his lower percentile size and arm length because he can beat you to your fit and he'll keep his feet working.  This is how he compares to all offensive linemen in mockdraftable's database:  https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/saahdiq-charles

 

Only 33rd and 26th percentile measurements for height and arm length respectively, but 90th percentile in the 40 yard dash.  He's got a similar physical profile to Duane Brown:

 

Charles: https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Saahdiq&l=Charles&i=30050

Brown: http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7884

 

They're the same height and have the same hand size, but Brown's arms are an 1 and 1/4" longer.  Charles's ran a little faster in the 40, a little slower in his 20 yard split, and interestingly enough, notably slower in his 10 yard split.

 

Charles's 10 yard split from the combine has puzzled me actually.  The 1.87 and 1.90 numbers are slow and put him in the same territory of guys who ran in the 5.2s and 5.3s and up.  And yet his official time was 5.05.  Either there was an error with the timing of his split, or he was booking it over the final ~25 yards to catch up with the guys who started much better than him.  I watched the run and I can't see the start because the dumbass broadcast was showing Mekhi Becton walking around, but the run didn't look bad from what I could see.  Maybe he didn't get enough distance on his drive steps, or maybe he's one of those guys who is "faster than quick."

 

Anyway, I think he compares pretty well to Duane Brown, which should argue for him staying at tackle if we move to an outside zone blocking scheme like Houston ran.  There is precedent for a very similar athlete to him playing very well at that position.  If he can eventually become the starting LT, talk about a home run value pick given where we were able to draft him.

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Seems that if Christian can improve his run blocking he could be a really good Tackle as that pass blocking grade is pretty good, especially for a young guy who's still relatively new to the NFL.

 

There are some technique issues, but his main problem in the run game still seems to be his sub-par functional strength.  Unfortunately, his injury his rookie year robbed him of some much needed time in an NFL S&C program, but we should hopefully see him start to improve in that area soon.

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Fresh8686

Fresh8686

Posted
Posted

@stevemcqueen1 if you don't mind me asking, do you have any opinion on his hand placement/technique? I haven't looked deep into Charles' cut-ups myself, but I read Bullock's take and his main issue with him was missing often with his outside hand placement in particular, but also having both hands high and wide and leaving his chest open to edge rushers.

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Anyway, I think he compares pretty well to Duane Brown, which should argue for him staying at tackle if we move to an outside zone blocking scheme like Houston ran.  There is precedent for a very similar athlete to him playing very well at that position.  If he can eventually become the starting LT, talk about a home run value pick given where we were able to draft him.

 

I've been comparing him to David Bakhtiari as a prospect, but I like this comp as well. 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Imagine if Ohio State beat Clemson, and it was Ohio State vs LSU for the championship.

We'd all be enjoying plenty of excellent tape of Charles going against Young.

 

You mean Charles + a TE + a RB most likely.  :ols:

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

@stevemcqueen1 if you don't mind me asking, do you have any opinion on his hand placement/technique? I haven't looked deep into Charles' cut-ups myself, but I read Bullock's take and his main issue with him was missing often with his outside hand placement in particular, but also having both hands high and wide and leaving his chest open to edge rushers.

 

Yeah, that's a fair criticism.  His hand placement is pretty loose.  You see him kind of catching rushers after his sets instead of punching and bear-hugging the containment man on run blocks.  But he is really flexible and has good core strength because he can recover and sit down on you even if you've got your hands on his numbers.  The feet are good, the hands need work to catch up.

 

He's an interesting player and athlete.  His ability to redirect and mirror is top notch.  Lateral speed is excellent.  Flexibility is excellent.  And he's got body control that demonstrates his soccer background--his cut blocking could end up being really good.  Build is unusually tapered for an OT.  He's got the athleticism to be a good ZBS tackle.

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