FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[wit33]

38 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Going to make a blanket statement here.  QB's who played baseball are in a category of their own.  Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray.  Odd-angle throws on scrambles from guys like that I don't worry about.  I don't think you can compare any non-baseball QB's arm mechanics to that of one who has played baseball.

Basketball seems to play a role in some cases in the QB being connected in their lower and upper half when on the move, spatial awareness, understanding angles, and ability to manipulate momentum situationally. 
 

Personally, I love soccer (Basketball is great too) as a foundational sport for any kid for a few years. Wonder how many of the QBs with ability to move around and throw from various angles also had a few years early on in soccer (like ages 5-10, due to many losing interest in the US after that age). Most give some credit playing basketball in high school (Mahomes was All state) for the ability to move around with confidence, but wonder if it starts further back then that for most. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

"Haskins plans to stay in Ashburn to train, but he also wants to work with McLaurin and fellow wideouts Steven Sims and Kelvin Harmon to prepare for their second season in the NFL."

 

This--this is what we all wanted to read.

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

This--this is what we all wanted to read.

 

Yep whether its deserved or not, we got no way to know.  But its tough to ignore all the narratives that at least suggest that they have some uncertainty about whether Haskins will put in the time.  And its obvious as heck that he's being egged on as for him putting in the time whether you dissect Rivera's comments or Doug's today.

 

At least rhetoric wise, Haskins seems to be responding the right way.  My gut is his work ethic will be fine but at the same time I'll be reassured when they seem reassured on that front.  It's obviously a big off season for him. 

 

 

 

 

 

[MartinC]

Doug Williams with some good context here.

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[skinny21]

^Good grief, that guy’s what... 7’6?

[dyst]

Athletes are such freaks physically. KP makes Dwayne look normal there and Dwyane is a big guy. 
 

There is video of The Rock (Dwayne Johnson) with Charles Barkley and Shaq and they make him look tiny.

 

Of course the infamous picture of Arnold with The Giant and Wilt is another one.

[bakedtater1]

Get some new pants Dwayne!

[NYSkins21]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

^Good grief, that guy’s what... 7’6?

That's "the unicorn". Kristaps Porziņģis. Ex New York Knick.

[volsmet]

11 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Going to make a blanket statement here.  QB's who played baseball are in a category of their own.  Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray.  Odd-angle throws on scrambles from guys like that I don't worry about.  I don't think you can compare any non-baseball QB's arm mechanics to that of one who has played baseball.

*Rodgers, had heat in the 90s.

 

 

[Warhead36]

He needs to shed that baby fat. Hit the gym son.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Haskins' first season was anything but smooth as it became evident around the draft that there was a divide in the building about taking him with the 15th overall pick. As one source said, it was clear that owner Dan Snyder wanted to draft him. There were questions about how much extra work he was putting in as numerous sources said he struggled to retain the plays.

 

But Haskins also was playing for a staff that was in a must-win situation, making it difficult for the coaches to adequately groom a young quarterback. He struggled mightily in his first two relief outings, going a combined 12-for-22 for 140 yards and four interceptions vs. the New York Giants and Minnesota.

 

But Haskins showed progress once he became a starter and, sources say, invested more time in work outside of the facility. Then-offensive coordinator Kevin O'Connell also took on a bigger role with Haskins down the stretch. In his last two games, Haskins completed a combined 31 of 43 passes for 394 yards and four touchdowns in games vs. the Giants and Philadelphia Eagles. He also directed two late field goal drives in a comeback win over Detroit, a game Rivera has referenced several times.

 

At season's end, numerous people in the organization said they loved how Haskins finished, but still wanted to see how he progressed.

A big part of Rivera's interview with Snyder involved his plan for developing Haskins. Rivera has said he wants to go through the spring before settling on any quarterback decision. He said he wants Haskins to become more of a leader. Haskins told reporters at the event that he has reached out to some of Rivera's former players in Carolina. And he's fine with having to prove himself to a new staff.

 

"That's cool," Haskins told reporters. "I'm going to have to work hard and eventually take it over. Just do your best to be accountable for what you have to do and be ready to go.

"[Rivera's] a guy who's going to hold you accountable and make sure you put the work in. I'm all for that. I'm excited."

 

Williams has become a mentor of sorts for Haskins as the two spoke often during the season. In Williams' new role he'll serve as a liaison between the players and the coaches, which means his tutoring of Haskins will continue. He has talked with Haskins in the past about what NFL quarterbacks must do and how they're always watched.

 

"The new staff knows that Dwayne Haskins is the starting quarterback here," Williams said. "The only thing that can happen is for Dwayne to give it back to them. It's up to him to learn the playbook, wear the coaches out. He's got to stay at the facility until they run him out of the building."

Late in the season, teammates noticed a difference in Haskins in the work he did and the way he carried himself. Williams said there's one way to keep winning them over.

 

"Keep doing it over and over," Williams said. "Dwayne has to let them know 'I'm here, I'm the leader, this is my team. I'm going to be the starter and I'll show you why I should be starting.'"

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28655407/redskins-vp-says-all-eyes-work-progress-dwayne-haskins

[KDawg]

I don’t understand what prospect means when they use it in the context above. I’m completely serious. It’s semi confusing. Mahomes is #5. But he’s the best QB on that list in reality. Wouldn’t that mean he was the best prospect but everyone missed on him?

 

If he’s talking about prospect based on college, it’s still confusing because if the guy becomes a stud, doesn’t that mean he was always that as a prospect because he actually became that?

 

Take that approach out and look at it as a pure collegiate ranking based on... well, I’m not sure because this prospect thing confuses... but it’s based on something... 

 

How is Tua 11?

[skinny21]

@KDawg - great question.  Read some of the comments (and author’s replies) and it made a lot more sense.  
 

Bare bones (from the author):

 

Things that go into this model: age-adjusted college production

schedule-adj production

mobility

and a consensus film grade

 

 (He also mentioned draft capital needed to acquire each qb) 
 

He dinged Tua by putting in this year’s numbers (using last year’s would have bumped him up a fair bit)

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t understand what prospect means when they use it in the context above. I’m completely serious. It’s semi confusing. Mahomes is #5. But he’s the best QB on that list in reality. Wouldn’t that mean he was the best prospect but everyone missed on him?

 

If he’s talking about prospect based on college, it’s still confusing because if the guy becomes a stud, doesn’t that mean he was always that as a prospect because he actually became that?

 

Take that approach out and look at it as a pure collegiate ranking based on... well, I’m not sure because this prospect thing confuses... but it’s based on something... 

 

How is Tua 11?

It is his model ranking PROSPECTS so it would be based primarily on quantitative data of their college performance given their opponents.  If your model predictions based on test data match too closely with reality your model probably sucks at actual prediction.  This is going to be a problem if you have to combine your training data with test data as you probably have data overfitting. Further, success of a guy who becomes a stud at the NFL-level is only partially about him being a stud in college.  Much has to do with the coaching, training and FO staff of the team that selects the stud prospect.  Also, another major factor are your team mates.  Finally, another major part of a players success has to do with qualitative data like how the player actually reacts to adversity (something that is often only a hypothetical, Mahomes reacted well to getting to ride pine most of his rookie season), leadership qualities and other things that are going to be hard for most people to truly know until the rubber meets the road. You also have exogenous issues that help or hurt a prospect (a friend of mine only got a chance to play on two SB teams because the guy ahead of him in college who had been a top national recruit couldn't stay away from coke and the next guy got injured).

[Burgundy Yoda]

Doug Williams states the new staff "knows" Dwayne Haskins is the starter. Can someone take the mic away from him please, didn't Rivera just state that it's an open QB competition? A lot of good that does the competition when the guy behind Dwayne has no shot. 

[skinny21]

42 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Doug Williams states the new staff "knows" Dwayne Haskins is the starter. Can someone take the mic away from him please, didn't Rivera just state that it's an open QB competition? A lot of good that does the competition when the guy behind Dwayne has no shot. 

On the other hand, we don’t have another viable qb on the roster yet...

 

[volsmet]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@KDawg - great question.  Read some of the comments (and author’s replies) and it made a lot more sense.  
 

Bare bones (from the author):

 

Things that go into this model: age-adjusted college production

schedule-adj production

mobility

and a consensus film grade

 

 (He also mentioned draft capital needed to acquire each qb) 
 

He dinged Tua by putting in this year’s numbers (using last year’s would have bumped him up a fair bit)

Sounds like reverse engineering.

 

[KDawg]

The Doug Williams comments aren’t reassuring to me on Haskins, by the way. He is absolutely the current starting QB... because he’s the only QB right now.

 

But even bringing up the commitment stuff really makes me curious if he hasn’t been doing what he’s had to from end of season until now.

 

I mean, it’s only February. And a lot happens with a new staff. But it’s a concern. 
 

Time will tell. I hope my confidence rises in him so I don’t stress about QB for the next 12 months

[KDawg]

11 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

It is his model ranking PROSPECTS so it would be based primarily on quantitative data of their college performance given their opponents.  If your model predictions based on test data match too closely with reality your model probably sucks at actual prediction.  This is going to be a problem if you have to combine your training data with test data as you probably have data overfitting. Further, success of a guy who becomes a stud at the NFL-level is only partially about him being a stud in college.  Much has to do with the coaching, training and FO staff of the team that selects the stud prospect.  Also, another major factor are your team mates.  Finally, another major part of a players success has to do with qualitative data like how the player actually reacts to adversity (something that is often only a hypothetical, Mahomes reacted well to getting to ride pine most of his rookie season), leadership qualities and other things that are going to be hard for most people to truly know until the rubber meets the road. You also have exogenous issues that help or hurt a prospect (a friend of mine only got a chance to play on two SB teams because the guy ahead of him in college who had been a top national recruit couldn't stay away from coke and the next guy got injured).

But shouldn’t his ability to do all of that factor in to prospect rankings?

 

This is why I hate all this Chase Young “best prospect ever!” Stuff. I buy into his ability, but everyone in the NFL was a prospect once. Many are future hall of famers. How can you say this guy is the best prospect?

 

And utilizing factors from what the guys do in college like strength of schedule is cool, but what do you do with London Fletcher? Or Fred Jackson? Who played D3?

 

This “prospect” stuff is silly. Look at a guy. Watch his film. Determine if he can play or not. Talk to him. Talk to people around him. See if you can get a vibe for his personality.

 

too many “okay” prospects have become studs. And too many “can’t miss” prospects have missed for me to buy into all of this prospect talk non sense.

 

This isn’t really aimed at you, by the way. Just me ranting a little.

 

Its also not a reflection of how I feel about Chase Young. I think the guy could be a very good NFL player. 
 

But any label that has Baker Mayfield higher than Mahomes is flawed. And yes, I understand the draft community and scouts thought that for a good portion of sites and teams. But that doesn’t make it correct. I was wrong there, too. 
 

But that does not make Mayfield a better prospect just because we whiffed on our analyzation. 

[757SeanTaylor21]

It's crazy that the chiefs gm watched mahomes and word for word their reaction was "this is the greatest player I've ever seen"....tells andy reid to watch it and his response was the Same thing yet we didnt see it lol

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

It's crazy that the chiefs gm watched mahomes and word for word their reaction was "this is the greatest player I've ever seen"....tells andy reid to watch it and his response was the Same thing yet we didnt see it lol

I think we did. But we talk ourselves out of it. I thought Mahomes was damn good but I kept going back to “ya but Texas Tech. Dude is going to fail miserably in the NFL.”

 

This is why the “Top Prospect” stuff is such garbage. We have no idea. 
 

There’s guys I’ve believed in that others didn’t and they were great NFL guys. There’s guys I’ve believed in that others did too, and they stunk. There are guys I’ve looked at and thought “nope” and others agreed and they’re phenomenal. 
 

It’s a hit or miss game. 
 

The talk of a prospect being a top prospect is overrated and non sensical. People should focus more on how the player fits what they do.

[Riggo#44]

On 2/4/2020 at 3:56 PM, checmate21 said:

 

 

Oh non believers not go want to see that, and going to come up with something to justify any of this..

 

I'll wait...

 

The talent is there. Development is TBA. But I feel a lot better about it with Rivera, than I did with Gruden/Callahan/KOC disconnect (even though I did want to keep KOC).

 

The throw against the Giants made me sit up and shout.

 

 

[KDawg]

@Riggo#44
 

I watched the Defenders yesterday... and Cardale Jones style reminded me a lot of Haskins last year. That’s not to say Jones = Haskins. Haskins fan develop given the right tutelage and coaching. But the “Ohio State big QB” thing stuck out to me like a sore thumb.

 

Both more mobile than you’d think. Both with big strong arms. Both misread D’s but then dazzle you with an amazing play.

 

The XFL is not the NFL. So the competition is different. But the guys in that league could be on NFL rosters in spots 40-53 for the most part. So it’s not like he was playing total slouches. 
 

Haskins has time. But man, I just thought a lot about Haskins/Jones similarities watching.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But the “Ohio State big QB” thing stuck out to me like a sore thumb.

 

We shall see, I'm not sold on any one at this point. But his development was encouraging last year. Those last couple of weeks were REALLY impressive from Haskins.