FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I am saying Rivera wants to win right away if he can and Gibbs felt pressure when he was 0-5 his first season. 

Joe Gibbs was a no-name coach that the owner had never heard of before Beathard brought him in.  He had never been Head Coach before, and had only been an Offensive Coordinator for 3 years.

 

Ron Rivera has been Head Coach since 2011.  He had been DC for 6 years prior to that.  He was a DC for the 2006 Bears Superbowl team, and reached the Superbowl with the Panthers in 2015.  He's also universally respected around the league.

 

This is a completely different scenario.

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

He did not want to throw a rookie into starting right away. 

Joe Theismann had been the regular starter for 3 years before Gibbs came to town.  The veteran was already well established at that point.

 

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Yes, you could draft a QB on Day 3 that will not cost much but it is unlikely that QB would be the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.  Kansas City had Alex tutor Mahomes before he started.  Our hypothetical drafted QB might not be ready to start.  We already know from drafting a QB with only one year of college experience that the team record was below .500 in his first year.  Of course the team itself was bad too.  So Rivera will have to upgrade both the offense and defensive players while also figuring out what to do at quarterback.

He is going to earn his money for sure if he can pull it off and make the Skins more respectable again.  By winning a few games right away he also shows fans that the culture issues might be improving as well.

 

This sounds like you want to immediately go away from Haskins, and are already writing him out of 2020 plans.  If so, we have no 2nd rounder.  We have a 20 million cap hit from Alex Smith, we have a 3+ cap hit from Haskins, and if we trade Haskins that rises to 10 million.  If we sign Brees, Brady, or Rivers that would push the total we're spending on the QB position for 2020 to be around 60 million.  That's a complete bust of a team from a roster construction standpoint.

 

If we sign Tannehill, he'd probably cost less, but then we're looking at 55 million for the QB position in 2020.

We could probably sign Bridgewater, but that'd be more like 45-50 million for the QB position, and he had less than 2 seasons with Minny, and just 5 games as a starter for New Orleans.  Those recent 5 games are the only ones where Bridgewater looks like a decent QB.

 

So barring Free Agency, which would cripple the team's cap space.  The only other option is through a trade.  We have no 2nd rounder.  A 3rd rounder wouldn't net us any decent veteran, we're looking at Andy Dalton for that.  So that means we'd have to include the #2 overall pick in a package for a veteran QB.

 

Does any of that make sense for the future of the Redskins?  I'm not seeing it.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Haskins and his jump throws. lol

 

That was a really nice throw under pressure and on the move, but man his mechanics on those throws is absolutely bizarre. He basically jumped up, did a little side karate kick and sort of sidearmed it across his body. The jump kick cracked me up though. 

[Conn]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Haskins and his jump throws. lol

 

That was a really nice throw under pressure and on the move, but man his mechanics on those throws is absolutely bizarre. He basically jumped up, did a little side karate kick and sort of sidearmed it across his body. The jump kick cracked me up though. 

 

These types of off-platform throws are part of why people drool over Mahomes (in addition to the fact that he's elite within the structure as well lol), and were pinpointed by some of us on the board as one factor that made Haskins intriguing this off-season. Throwing from different arm angles and out of structure like that is something that I specifically posted about a lot. He's hella talented. 

 

Now unfortunately the fact he can do things like this put him in a high enough talent tier in college that his regular old vanilla mechanics were/are sloppier than they should be by a long shot. And he needs to get consistency on a play-in, play-out basis or we'll just be left hanging onto plays like this as a reason to keep believing. That's the growth we hope to see this year or he'll forever be a guy who flashes innate and instinctive brilliance amidst frustratingly missing routine plays.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

These types of off-platform throws are part of why people drool over Mahomes (in addition to the fact that he's elite within the structure as well lol), and were pinpointed by some of us on the board as one factor that made Haskins intriguing this off-season. Throwing from different arm angles and out of structure like that is something that I specifically posted about a lot. He's hella talented. 

 

Now unfortunately the fact he can do things like this put him in a high enough talent tier in college that his regular old vanilla mechanics were/are sloppier than they should be by a long shot. And he needs to get consistency on a play-in, play-out basis or we'll just be left hanging onto plays like this as a reason to keep believing. That's the growth we hope to see this year or he'll forever be a guy who flashes innate and instinctice brilliance amidst frustratingly missing routine plays.

 

Oh it wasn't so much that he threw off platform...being able to do that is always a plus (as long as your basic mechanics are down first...though that's a different conversation). I was mostly talking about how totally insane his lower body became to the point where he literally did what looked like a jump karate kick after he was in the air.

 

When a guy like Mahomes does that if you watch it you see his arm angle gets really wonky at times but his base still stays pretty on point as far as flipping his hips for torque and unwinding, keeping his shoulders, hips, and lower body mostly in sync. Haskins was the opposite. His whole platform just went haywire. He torqued and rotated his shoulders pretty well but then suddenly his lower body was like "**** you I do what I want!" and did something completely different. 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Haskins and his jump throws. lol

 

That was a really nice throw under pressure and on the move, but man his mechanics on those throws is absolutely bizarre. He basically jumped up, did a little side karate kick and sort of sidearmed it across his body. The jump kick cracked me up though. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

Holy crap, so he actually did two. I was talking about his second karate kick to the other side that came right after what you posted.

 

 

It looks like he just got finished punting the ball.

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Holy crap, so he actually did two. I was talking about his second karate kick to the other side that came right after what you posted.

 

 

It looks like he just got finished punting the ball.

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Haskins has to learn how to throw the short out.  Or, the play needs to be removed from the playbook. Is that purely mechanics?   It doesn't look that way to me, but I admittedly focus more on results than footwork, in the era of young QBs now allowed to play knowing they aren't fully cooked.

 

It's almost like Haskins has TOO much arm strength to throw short outside the numbers.  Or, his accuracy is consistently simply way off on that route. I have theorized he is gun shy of a pick 6 and is playing it safe, leading more outside, likely at a coaches direction to avoid turnovers / settle for the 3 if need be.  Sure, the WR could be slightly off in his route, but think its almost innate for a QB to adjust to the nuances of WR routes as they battle DBs every ****ing play.

[KDawg]

You CANNOT compare Mahomes off balance and odd arm angle throws to Haskins. You just can't do it. Mahomes has overall mechanics and has proven himself in game. Haskins has not. 

 

Dwayne "Punter 1" Haskins needs to fix his mechanics or he's going to struggle. 

[mistertim]

There was something else it reminded me of but I couldn't quite place it.

 

Yep, got it.

 

 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Haskins has to learn how to throw the short out.  Or, the play needs to be removed from the playbook. Is that purely mechanics?   It doesn't look that way to me, but I admittedly focus more on results than footwork, in the era of young QBs now allowed to play knowing they aren't fully cooked.

 

It's almost like Haskins has TOO much arm strength to throw short outside the numbers.  Or, his accuracy is consistently simply way off on that route. I have theorized he is gun shy of a pick 6 and is playing it safe, leading more outside, likely at a coaches direction to avoid turnovers / settle for the 3 if need be.  Sure, the WR could be slightly off in his route, but think its almost innate for a QB to adjust to the nuances of WR routes as they battle DBs every ****ing play.

 

I think a fair amount of it has to do with mechanics. I'd have to go look for examples, but purely from what I remember when watching him it seems that on short out or flat routes he has a tendency to not set his feet fully and rely too much on his arm. The result is often wide to the outside. I don't know off the top of my head what specifically that usually means with regards to footwork; one of the guys here with more expertise could give a much better explanation than I could. But I do remember seeing him rush and not fully set his feet on those multiple times. And the result was often an inaccurate pass. 

[skinny21]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think a fair amount of it has to do with mechanics. I'd have to go look for examples, but purely from what I remember when watching him it seems that on short out or flat routes he has a tendency to not set his feet fully and rely too much on his arm. The result is often wide to the outside. I don't know off the top of my head what specifically that usually means with regards to footwork; one of the guys here with more expertise could give a much better explanation than I could. But I do remember seeing him rush and not fully set his feet on those multiple times. And the result was often an inaccurate pass. 

I can’t speak to many of his throws on quick outs, but I remember him throwing a few to Quinn.  When Quinn faked inside and then went out, Haskins completed the throw.  When Quinn just broke out, he got zero separation and Haskins passed accurately to where only Quinn could come down with it.  On one, Quinn had to dive and couldn’t quite pull it in. On another (I actually think it was two others), the defender was able to get a hand on it.  If Quinn had just a step (or maybe even a half step) of separation, those would have been nice throws/catches. 
 

Not trying to argue he’s fine, just that he has shown the ability to make them.  Anytime a young player shows inconsistency, I assume we should see improvement with experience.  No guarantees of course.  

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I can’t speak to many of his throws on quick outs, but I remember him throwing a few to Quinn.  When Quinn faked inside and then went out, Haskins completed the throw.  When Quinn just broke out, he got zero separation and Haskins passed accurately to where only Quinn could come down with it.  On one, Quinn had to dive and couldn’t quite pull it in. On another (I actually think it was two others), the defender was able to get a hand on it.  If Quinn had just a step (or maybe even a half step) of separation, those would have been nice throws/catches. 
 

Not trying to argue he’s fine, just that he has shown the ability to make them.  Anytime a young player shows inconsistency, I assume we should see improvement with experience.  No guarantees of course.  

 

To be honest, I'm mostly talking about what I remember seeing when breaking down his college tape before the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he's improved in that area. I just don't really remember any specific ones from this past season. I'd have to go back and watch all of his pass plays in various games to find some to check out. 

[skinny21]

37 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

To be honest, I'm mostly talking about what I remember seeing when breaking down his college tape before the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he's improved in that area. I just don't really remember any specific ones from this past season. I'd have to go back and watch all of his pass plays in various games to find some to check out. 

Yeah, it was definitely a knock on him coming out.  I’m also not saying he has improved, because I have no idea.  The fact that I’ve seen him make a couple is at least promising in that he can improve (especially through consistency), though no telling if he does.  

This reminds me of a(nother) thing I like about Haskins - he has shown he can make all of the throws and isn’t afraid of any.  I’m not saying he’s consistent, or good at all throws, but we’ve all seen certain qbs that avoid the middle of the field, don’t throw to the outside, or try to avoid tight window throws etc.  

This sort of ties into an earlier point I made about not seeing Haskins having any real limitations in terms of his tools.  He obviously needs to prove he has the right mentality (ie. approach) to succeed though - the drive to hone those tools to the best of his ability.  I have serious reservations on this front.  On the bright side, his intelligence, confidence, and desire to be great offer me hope.  

[OVCChairman]

46 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, it was definitely a knock on him coming out.  I’m also not saying he has improved, because I have no idea.  The fact that I’ve seen him make a couple is at least promising in that he can improve (especially through consistency), though no telling if he does.  

This reminds me of a(nother) thing I like about Haskins - he has shown he can make all of the throws and isn’t afraid of any.  I’m not saying he’s consistent, or good at all throws, but we’ve all seen certain qbs that avoid the middle of the field, don’t throw to the outside, or try to avoid tight window throws etc.  

This sort of ties into an earlier point I made about not seeing Haskins having any real limitations in terms of his tools.  He obviously needs to prove he has the right mentality (ie. approach) to succeed though - the drive to hone those tools to the best of his ability.  I have serious reservations on this front.  On the bright side, his intelligence, confidence, and desire to be great offer me hope.  

 

 

I have always believed that I want the guy that goes 100 mph when you only need him to go 75.  I want a QB who is willing to take the shot, willing to make the tough throw, and is confident enough to do it.  It's much easier, imho, to reel a guy in, than it is to push them forward.  The concern is overconfidence, causing an issue with coaches being able to fine tune the mentality.  I think Haskins did really well protecting the ball last year, while still making some seriously big time throw.. the one above being an example.  Rolling left, throwing across your body with 2 DBs trailing your WR is a seriously risky throw... and he nailed it.  If he short arms that, it's likely picked.  The throw vs Carolina also shown above, was crazy.  Triple coverage and Haskins ripped it into a window that most QBs simply cant.  Please give me that to a guy in the process of learning... Much more than a guy who pats the ball, see's a narrow window, but doesn't want to take the shot, and ends up getting sacked. 

[wit33]

Haskins is a one sport athlete and that often limits a player’s fluidity when performing movements outsides the scope of fundamentals. 
 

The other side of the coin is that Haskins has the ability to get in ultra hot type rhythms, due to him starting his QB apprenticeship/highly focused  training at 7 or whatever it was.
 

Mahomes isn’t a rhythm type QB and chaos will always play a huge part in his game, but he’s elite at managing chaos and that is coupled with elite physical traits. Mahomes will lose many games in his career, due to mismanagement of chaos and win many, due to his management of it lol. I have nothing to support it (just fan observation when watching) I don’t think he reads the field all that well, but Reid does a masterful job of stretching the field and creating easier hi/low type reads. 

[skinzplay]

It's great for Haskins that he'll be able to learn  under the tutelage of Zampese. That is a huge, huge asset for him. The kid is gonna be coached and developed. This could be an incredible offseason for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Love this.  It's been my main concern considering everyone covering the team have said there are some in the building who have concerns about Dwayne on that front.

 

So whether its Dwayne keeping momentum on that front from the end of the season -- Doug egging him on or Rivera pushing it -- I don't care, its all good.  It's good to hear he's motivated via the competition, etc. 

 

 

 

Rivera has often mentioned how he needs to see Haskins assume more of a leadership role and display a hunger to get better after a rocky, yet tantalizing rookie year. He’s also made sure to bring up Alex Smith’s name as someone not to forget under center, indicating Smith or someone else could be given a chance to start for Washington at QB instead of the recent first-round pick. 

Haskins has heard Rivera’s remarks and is ready to embrace the coach’s challenge. 

“That’s cool,” Haskins told reporters on Friday at a Redskins community event at the National Children’s museum in D.C. “I’m just going to have to work hard and eventually take it over. Just do your best to be accountable for what you have to do and be ready to go.”

Haskins’ transition from Ohio State to the NFL was far from ideal. It included some disappointing early appearances, Jay Gruden’s firing, questions about his dedication, a poorly-timed selfie and some minor ankle injuries. 

But near the end of 2019, everything seemed to come together for the talented 22-year-old, as he posted six sterling quarters of play and hinted at his major potential. 

[Skinsinparadise]

OK found the full comment from Doug, so its Doug saying he's got to stay there until they run him out. 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

You CANNOT compare Mahomes off balance and odd arm angle throws to Haskins. You just can't do it. Mahomes has overall mechanics and has proven himself in game. Haskins has not.

 

Going to make a blanket statement here.  QB's who played baseball are in a category of their own.  Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray.  Odd-angle throws on scrambles from guys like that I don't worry about.  I don't think you can compare any non-baseball QB's arm mechanics to that of one who has played baseball.

[HTTRDynasty]

30 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Going to make a blanket statement here.  QB's who played baseball are in a category of their own.  Mahomes, Wilson, and Murray.  Odd-angle throws on scrambles from guys like that I don't worry about.  I don't think you can compare any non-baseball QB's arm mechanics to that of one who has played baseball.

 

Even the grip is different.  Mahomes throws with almost his entire hand on top of the ball... only the pinky grips the laces when he throws.  That's part of the reason he's able to be so creative with his arm angles.  

 

Here's an interview where it's mentioned (7:15 mark):

 

Dak also mentions how Mahomes always gets his back hip through, which speaks to the point about the lower body always being in sync even with the funky arm angles.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

"There are a lot of great dudes in the building," Haskins said. "I'm excited to get to work."

As Rivera mentioned on Radio Row, Haskins saw a lot of playing time in the last half of the season. He was named the permanent starter in Week 9 after appearing in relief for Case Keenum against the New York Giants and Minnesota Vikings.

Haskins said he got better with each start, and his performances back up that claim. He said he's more comfortable leading his teammates in the huddle, and as he gets ready to begin offseason training, he feels that "a lot of big things will happen" as he continues to work on himself.

Haskins plans to stay in Ashburn to train, but he also wants to work with McLaurin and fellow wideouts Steven Sims and Kelvin Harmon to prepare for their second season in the NFL. He believes the young core of players on the Redskins' roster are a special group that is "really hungry" to prove itself.

With Rivera and his new coaching staff leading the way, his expectations for the 2020 season are high.

[HTTRDynasty]