RandyHolt Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 "ESPN's Mike Greenberg said he believes more young quarterbacks are ruined than developed" Imagine my shock, as I have been implying this for a decade if not more. The era of old stiffs and their static playbooks are slowly becoming a thing of the past. Not all QBs are cut from the same mold but their fat overly complex playbooks were designed as if they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 12 hours ago, ggarriso said: So silly - he was going to bust out of the league no matter who took him, the Redskins just have a way of accelerating a players demise. For once I would say the Redskins are not to blame here This kind of comment is just ridiculous. It's totally reasonable to have a view that Haskins is likely to be a bust (as defined as not becoming an above league average starting QB?) - but to be THIS sure he is ALREADY going to be or is a bust ... just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick6 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 14 hours ago, ggarriso said: So silly - he was going to bust out of the league no matter who took him, the Redskins just have a way of accelerating a players demise. For once I would say the Redskins are not to blame here We all get it, you hate Haskins. Not sure what dude did to you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Pick6 said: We all get it, you hate Haskins. Not sure what dude did to you personally. My point is more along the lines of the Redskins make A LOT of mistakes, like immense numbers of embarrassing and incompetent moves - however, ref: the article saying they are "ruining" this QB, I just dont see it. I see a lot of other reasons he is a failure, but I do not think the team played into the result heavily (beyond making the mistake of the pick, which is a different discussion on owner meddling). I am hard pressed to ever defend the team management but in this case, I think the criticism is a bit misplaced. Hope that makes more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, ggarriso said: I see a lot of other reasons he is a failure, IS a failure? 1 minute ago, ggarriso said: Hope that makes more sense Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: IS a failure? Nope. Understand your contention of my assertion; lets revisit around game 8 of next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick6 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, ggarriso said: My point is more along the lines of the Redskins make A LOT of mistakes, like immense numbers of embarrassing and incompetent moves - however, ref: the article saying they are "ruining" this QB, I just dont see it. I see a lot of other reasons he is a failure, but I do not think the team played into the result heavily (beyond making the mistake of the pick, which is a different discussion on owner meddling). I am hard pressed to ever defend the team management but in this case, I think the criticism is a bit misplaced. Hope that makes more sense Sorry man, I don't see the failure part. He has played 7 games. The Skins gave Kirk Cousins a lot more time to prove his worth. I would say he is a failure more than Haskins, because the Vikings are paying him big money and he hasn't made them better. They are actually worse off. I think we all need just give Haskins a chance to play out this season and see what happens. It does sound like you will just never like the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, ggarriso said: Understand your contention of my assertion; lets revisit around game 8 of next season Sure. Or better still end of next season. But right now your position makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Mike Greenberg was in love with Haskins before the draft and stuck his neck out for him. That's fine. I've done the same for many prospects and i am doing so these days again in the draft thread for certain players heading towards this years draft. So I get (we all do) falling for a prospect before the draft. It's fun. But the thing is we don't know who these players are as people. A big part of the scouting that goes on involves scoping out the players' personalities and how they go about things. We can't see that on a You Tube video but if scouts do their homework, they should be able to make an educated guess on the subject. There are articles that talk about all the weird things scouts do to learn about what kind of person the player is including even hiring PI's to scope them out. The personality side is a serious part of the scouting process and we can't see that side of it unless we are present in the interviews and quiz the player's coaches and all the other things scouts do to try to figure this part of the drill out. Shanny would say he really wouldn't know the prospects of the players he drafted until he had them in the building. Then he saw their work habits among other things. Gibbs has talked about that as well. There is a major unknown factor about every player that's drafted that only people in the building know as opposed to outside media types like Greenberg or fans like us. So I don't get the point of being so in love with a prospect that you defend the dude like its your spouse and anything said about them negatively must be wrong. For example, I got some man crushes on some players in this draft but if we drafted one of them I am going to trust that the team knows better about that dude's personality and what makes them tick than I do from watching some youtube clips. We can just check out the player's games and guess how that translates to the pros. But its tough to see their personality makeup aside from making deductions based on the style they play with and just hearsay. As for Haskins, I had some concerns about him as a player before the draft. But I loved what he would say in his interviews and it gave me the impression that he was potentially a Tom Brady type as for work ethic with the drive to be excellent. Now with him on the Redskins, I've done a 180 on both subjects. I like his potential more as a pro player than I did from watching his Ohio State games. But at the same time, I can't ignore every beat guy and the coaches too giving heavy hints that they'd like to see a better work ethic out of Haskins. So I am now more sold on him as a player and less so about his intangibles. So based on what's been said about Haskins, I think it's totally in bounds for Doug to say what he did. Ditto Rivera. Ditto Scott Turner. The dude has good potential and if he's the type that needs to be egged on to work harder than do it. Greenberg IMO looks like a fool to be offended by it -- just because he loved him before the draft. No one is saying Dwayne is a bust. They are just trying to push him to bring out his best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 He will be considered a smart hard working QB if he produces. We’ll hear cool stories about how he studies with his high school sweetheart on a Saturday night versus going out, because he’s such a great guy. In the piece, the girlfriend will say I have to force him off the IPad, because he studies so much. Haskins will confidently discuss his process and system adapted to succeed. Alex Smith will be credited throughout. Absolutely no way Brett Favre studied as much as Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, wit33 said: He will be considered a smart hard working QB if he produces. We’ll hear cool stories about how he studies with his high school sweetheart on a Saturday night versus going out, because he’s such a great guy. In the piece, the girlfriend will say I have to force him off the IPad, because he studies so much. Haskins will confidently discuss his process and system adapted to succeed. Alex Smith will be credited throughout. Absolutely no way Brett Favre studied as much as Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins. I got some optimism that he develops the right work habits. Not sure if you are implying its not a big deal one way or another though if he does. I do agree if he checks out of the building on many days the first chance he gets (like Russell among others have spoken about), yet kills it Sunday after Sunday no one will care. I do think though there is likely a connection to work ethic and success at that position. Brady, Peyton -- plenty of the greats are known to work like maniacs at their craft. Alex and Kirk aren't anomalies, they are likely closer to being the norm as for preparing at that spot. QB guru types including Shanny, Arians, and Gibbs have all said work ethic is the main intangible outside of actual talent. Going back to Alex, I think having him in the building and fostering some type of competition is likely helpful. Alex like you suggested has a maniacal work ethic. So hopefully Dwayne picks up Alex's habits. Mahomes swears by Alex's tutoring as to how to be a pro and that made all the difference for him. And If I recall he was Andy Reid who said Mahomes did everything Alex taught him to do. If Haskins does the same, we should be good. I also think Doug, Scott Turner and Rivera will keep Haskins motivated and it should turn out fine. https://www.redskins.com/news/five-takeaways-redskins-offensive-coordinator-scott-turner-conference-call Turner wants Dwayne Haskins to be the "most committed guy in the building." With more experience, Turner believes Haskins could be a "really good player." Whether that happens or not will come down to his commitment level. Regardless of physical attributes, Turner said the starting quarterback needs to be the "most committed guy in the building." That's who Cam Newton was in Carolina when he won Rookie of the Year in 2011. It's who Teddy Bridgewater was with the Minnesota Vikings when he set several franchise records as a rookie in 2014 and made the Pro Bowl a year later. Turner and his coaching staff will challenge Haskins to assume a similar role in Washington. Turner and his coaching staff will challenge Haskins to assume a similar role in Washington. "If you're the last guy in, the first guy to leave, you don't have a mastery of the offense as a quarterback. If you try to tell somebody else what to do or try to step into a leadership-type role, it is not going to work and no one is going to listen to you," Turner said. "The quarterback has to spend his time so he knows the offense better than anybody. He has to know it like a coach and he has to be able to present that on the field and present that confidence when he is running the show. That takes work to get to that and guys see it. Guys see when it is there and guys see when it is not." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I think with his coaching staff saying it all over media, thats whats they are going to get from him. Which will be good for him. They are giving him much more leadership than Gruden and Co ever did. At least publicly. Not sure how much that means yet, though. I expect him to be exactly what they are asking for. If not I wouldn't be surprised if they draft a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I'm a bit torn on the working hard thing. On one had it's good to hear that Haskins seems to be taking up the challenge and upping his work habits. On the other hand, part of me feels like that sort of drive and focus is something a person tends to have or doesn't. I may be totally off base but it seems like the QBs who are obsessive about watching film and studying and working non-stop were more or less always like that. I hope I'm wrong though and Haskins truly does pick it up as a full time habit, and not just something to please the coaches short term. I definitely liked the improvements he made in the latter half of his starts last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, mistertim said: part of me feels like that sort of drive and focus is something a person tends to have or doesn't. Agree - heart and desire is not a "learned" trait, you either have it or you dont. In fact when those that don't try to act like they have that type of moxie, it comes across as turd-ish - probably why you saw the lineman looking like someone cut the nastiest fart ever when Simba was trying to "rally" them or whatever that display was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Oh hell.......can you show me on this doll where Haskins hurt you? 🤣 Last year I dug through the interwebs to watch every scrap I could find on Haskins. It's hard to divine pro attributes from college tape, that's what makes the draft so interesting every year. The one thing that stuck out to me was the arc of his final season at OSU. You could see him learn, you could see it as he got comfortable and confident, as it became his. More than any play or game, his evolution across the season says something to me. The kid has the tools to do it, but he needs to feel it. If Doug coaxing while Ron is pushing helps him find that, then that's ok with me. Once he got a genuine chance we saw it here too across a few games late in a losing year. And it's right there in the name HaSKINS fer crissakes............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, ggarriso said: Agree - heart and desire is not a "learned" trait, you either have it or you dont. In fact when those that don't try to act like they have that type of moxie, it comes across as turd-ish - probably why you saw the lineman looking like someone cut the nastiest fart ever when Simba was trying to "rally" them or whatever that display was. Success to the Successful is a real thing. The first 3 paragraphs gets the theory across: https://thesystemsthinker.com/success-to-the-successful-self-fulfilling-prophecies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I'm not a huge fan of the way haskins comes off in his press conferences. He seems snarky and a bit immature, but I present to you exhibit A as to why that doesn't necessarily translate into a lack of success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Only problem is I think Bill Patriot is playing a heel character, I think our QB is just a prick. Hopefully that changes over time, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-9- Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 41 minutes ago, spjunkies said: I think our QB is just a prick. “When he was a prick ... Reno Hightower was the greatest quarterback in the history of south Kern County.” - Jack Dundee just sayin’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 If Haskins is a prick, what does that make Aaron Rodgers? 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Just now, HTTRDynasty said: If Haskins is a prick, what does that make Aaron Rodgers? 😂 A hall of famer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 peter schrager on gmfb this a.m. had put burrow at #2 and young at #1 i know this is a 'hot take' and it's easy to find several important and valid counterpoints , but going by my unparalleled football instincts (cough) and based on eyes and gut (being a man of science) i'd like to take burrow if he falls to us and write off the 15 pick in the sense of maybe just getting a couple of useful--not necessarily big time---good players for haskins...bite that bullet now, take the sure thing once and for all at qb, and just move forward and no, i'm not a morning drinker....this is the product of a sober if unsound mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, ggarriso said: A hall of famer And? He was a prick far before he was a HOFer. Him being an arrogant, entitled A-hole is the primary reason the Niners picked Smith at #1 overall over him and why he fell so far in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 52 minutes ago, Jumbo said: peter schrager on gmfb this a.m. had put burrow at #2 and young at #1 i know this is a 'hot take' and it's easy to find several important and valid counterpoints , but going by my unparalleled football instincts (cough) and based on eyes and gut (being a man of science) i'd like to take burrow if he falls to us and write off the 15 pick in the sense of maybe just getting a couple of useful--not necessarily big time---good players for haskins...bite that bullet now, take the sure thing once and for all at qb, and just move forward and no, i'm not a morning drinker....this is the product of a sober if unsound mind While i am one of people more confident in Haskins, and truly wants to see him get a real shot this year.... IF Smith, Rivera and company see Burrow as a can't miss for what they want to, and he's there.... I can't get upset if they take him. There are no positions on this roster that have ZERO room for upgrade... and Rivera and the team need to have the support to make whatever decisions they need to, in order to build their vision. If Burrow is there, it's going to be hard to pass on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: If Haskins is a prick, what does that make Aaron Rodgers? 😂 A douche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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