FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Interestingly enough, Tua has an official 45 meeting with the Washington Redskins at the Combine. While there are some in the Washington organization not sold on Dwayne Haskins, I would not read to much into this. Though an interesting talking point, in the end, it’s Washington doing their due diligence.

[Burgold]

I'd suspect it would be negligent not to talk to each of the prospective top ten picks. After all, while picking Chase Young is a no brainer if we get blown away with a trade offer we need to know as much about all the other prospect as possible.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

 

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'd suspect it would be negligent not to talk to each of the prospective top ten picks. After all, while picking Chase Young is a no brainer if we get blown away with a trade offer we need to know as much about all the other prospect as possible.

 

I used to think there is no way they'd take a QB but the more this work ethic keeps coming from place after place, I suspect they will at least entertain the idea of Tua albeit I suspect they ride with Haskins.   The contrast with Tua on this issue would be stark.  As I've posted Tua is a Peyton-Brady type as for being a workaholic at least reputation wise. 

 

 

[Burgold]

I am not for Tua. He's an amazing talent and potentially a great QB, but his body can't hold up to the college game. Two years in a row, he fell to injuries. Maybe I'm just scarred by what happened to RGIII, but I think the risks with Tua are just too high.

 

Edit: Mind you, I was opposed to Haskins last year because it was supposedly a bad year for QBs and I was pretty sure we'd have a rotten year. However, since we invested that first rounder I'd like to see Dwayne given an honest shot.

[KDawg]

46 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I am not for Tua. He's an amazing talent and potentially a great QB, but his body can't hold up to the college game. Two years in a row, he fell to injuries. Maybe I'm just scarred by what happened to RGIII, but I think the risks with Tua are just too high.

 

Edit: Mind you, I was opposed to Haskins last year because it was supposedly a bad year for QBs and I was pretty sure we'd have a rotten year. However, since we invested that first rounder I'd like to see Dwayne given an honest shot.

 

That mentality, that just because a guy was a high draft pick, that he should get a shot...

 

Needs to be eradicated.

 

If Haskins gets a shot, it needs to be because he earned it based on performance, work ethic and how much the locker room is behind him. It's not because he was picked at an arbitrary slot in the worlds biggest feeding frenzy of a guessing game. 

[Burgold]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

That mentality, that just because a guy was a high draft pick, that he should get a shot...

 

Needs to be eradicated.

 

If Haskins gets a shot, it needs to be because he earned it based on performance, work ethic and how much the locker room is behind him. It's not because he was picked at an arbitrary slot in the worlds biggest feeding frenzy of a guessing game. 

I agree and disagree simultaneously.

 

Most people deserve a couple chances to make a first impression. Cutting a rookie after one bad preseason game might be a good move or it might be missing the opportunity to get someone who once he gets it becomes great. How many players make a huge jump from their rookie to sophomore years?

 

So yeah, I think that if a team made a high investment on a player they need to give that player an opportunity or even two to prove themselves. That said, there's clearly a point where they also can disprove themselves and there are some who do that really quickly. To my mind, Haskins is a giant question mark. I saw enough at the end to think that may be he could do this thing, but the sample size was so small. At the same time, he started out really, really, really bad. So, I have no real idea who the real Haskins is. Maybe the coaches do, but then again, other than by talking to the running backs coach, Snyder, or Kyle Smith... they haven't seen who he is or how he responds to coaching for themselves either.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

When Haskins shows up and goes for 4,400 yards and 32 TDs next year I want all of you saying to take Tua to eat your words. Haskins has that sort of upside IMO, and beyond, frankly. 
 

Tua does not do it for me. Especially with those injuries. Sorry. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Also what is the opportunity cost of taking Tua at #2? Investing in an injury plagued small QB? 
 

Well you could probably get 3 #1’s for him PLUS keep the QB with upside you just spent a 1st on.

 

Or you could add what many consider to be a cant miss all world pass rusher. 
 

Haskins + 3 1st rounders or

Haskins + Chase Young are both >>>>>

Tu and whatever mid round pick you could get Dwayne for. And not because Haskins isn’t worth more but like Arizona last year you’ve forced your hand. 
 

You could counter and say well if Tua Is a Top 5 QB in this league you take him. But I Could counter and say Haskins upside could be that too ... and you can also add Chase or picks. 
 

Even if you could sell me on Tua being better than Dwayne today, I don’t think you could sell me on it being a delta big enough to lose out on a draft haul or a all world pass rusher. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I don’t see the Haskins debate as an all or nothing discussion where you either got his back completely or you don’t.  
 

My point is there are variables we don’t know as for how things are playing out. They can be playing out in the most rosy way imaginable, not too hot or somewhere in between.
 

The idea that there is a running narrative just about everywhere that the dude might not be a hard worker is cringe worthy to me.  I can’t recall a story that pronounced on that topic on any prospect especially at Qb.  Does that mean he can’t develop on that front or he isn’t talented? Not at all.

 

Haskins could end up being the goods but count me among the crowd that doesn’t shrug off the idea of numerous sources saying there are concerns about the work habits of ANY player. Sounds like Turner, Doug, Rivera aren’t shrugging it off and they would know better than us if there is some cause for concern.

 

Hopefully they get Haskins on the right track and he kills it next year.

 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

The Haskins work ethic issue Imo is bordering on ridiculous/malicious. We have 0 idea what he experienced once drafted, we have 0 idea how Jay really handled him from day 1 through the week he first started, 0, cause we weren’t in the room. Was he taken through the paces from the ground up? Was he shown and expressed to him exactly what they were looking for from him from AtoZ?  We don’t know.
 

 The kid obviously showed good work ethic once he was handed the reins of the O. He clearly got better week to week. 
Learning how to study and how to take care of your body is LEARNED. He seemed in excellent shape last year and that physically his work ethic was not an issue.

 

So It took him some time to get up to speed and by the end was throwing darts and seeing the field? Uh yeah I think we shouldn’t pile on this narrative that some posters and some writers are incessantly pushing/rehashing.

 

We are basing all of this on 3 pre draft reports and one in season report.

1. From an anonymous NFC scout that said he was overrated. Not work ethic related.

2. McShay interpreting why he thinks some scouts were shying away from him predraft. “Will he stay in shape and do everything necessary to be ready physically.” Work ethic related But Physical, not studying. 

3. A pff nerd dropping a tweet about potential work ethic issues pre draft. Was it body related, eye test,  perception? Idk.

4. Adrian Peterson calling for him to get in his playbook and learn those plays, so he can be effective running the offense. This is probably the most viable report. A teammate saying you gotta step it up. That’s ok imo when it comes to a kid who has started 14 college games and is trying to figure it out.

 

outside of these are there more concrete evidence based reports not based totally on heresay? 
Cuz I can easily drop 3/4 articles predraft about how work ethic has not and will not ever be a concern for DH. 

And that is the point. We don’t really know squat about how he’s working or not working.

 

I’m not saying he’s been perfect, it’s obvious he hasn’t, but to make him carry this dark cloud based on conjecture/best guess/opinion at best and malice/racial stereotyping at worst....Is Irresponsible. imo.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Perhaps one of the more ridiculous passes I’ve seen handed out are those handed to Haskins because Jay...yadda yadda whatever.

 

I don’t care if Jay told him he would never play for him, I want my QB to be a sponge and dedicated no matter the circumstances.  We are talking about a head coach who spoke openly that his job was on the line.  He had the hottest seat in the league.  He was looking at starting Colt McCoy or Case Keenum.  There is absolutely no reason to not be all-in as a rookie with a mere one year of college experience under the belt.  
 

It’s not just beat reporters and radio guys saying there are work ethic issues.  Doug has colored his comments that way on multiple occasions.  Callahan and KOC as well.  To defend it and have no concern in that regard is just burying your head in the sand.

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Im not burying anything in the sand. The reports are out there. He’s gotta own them and I say the results speak for themselves. Did he not improve week to week, crescendoing into 8 really damn solid final 8 quarters. Does that not imply that he is working up to expectations? 
 

When the new coach And OC come in and lay out there exact expectations of him in the media without giving him the Full public support some would’ve expected it says all that needs to be said. No coddling, get to work, do what we expect, this is what we expect. 
 

However, moving forward, it’s now all known, everyone is on the same page with what is expected. For us as fans to continually hold it over him until proven otherwise I think is slightly unfair, unproductive, and unnecessary.
 

If your kid shows he needs improvement with some behavior. You think reminding him daily on his failures/mistakes is the way to go to seek the behavior you want? Especially if they are showing improvement and willingness to do what is necessary.?

No I don’t think it is.

 

i know it’s draft season and we have Tua as an option so it will come up. I just think we need to turn the page and give him a shot to succeed instead of Constantly pointing to his perceived failures, with regard to work ethic.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

We are basing all of this on 3 pre draft reports and one in season report.

1. From an anonymous NFC scout that said he was overrated. Not work ethic related.

2. McShay interpreting why he thinks some scouts were shying away from him predraft. “Will he stay in shape and do everything necessary to be ready physically.” Work ethic related But Physical, not studying. 

3. A pff nerd dropping a tweet about potential work ethic issues pre draft. Was it body related, eye test,  perception? Idk.

4. Adrian Peterson calling for him to get in his playbook and learn those plays, so he can be effective running the offense. This is probably the most viable report. A teammate saying you gotta step it up. That’s ok imo when it comes to a kid who has started 14 college games and is trying to figure it out.

 

outside of these are there more concrete evidence based reports not based totally on heresay? 
Cuz I can easily drop 3/4 articles predraft about how work ethic has not and will not ever be a concern for DH. 

And that is the point. We don’t really know squat about how he’s working or not working.

 

I’m not saying he’s been perfect, it’s obvious he hasn’t, but to make him carry this dark cloud based on conjecture/best guess/opinion at best and malice/racial stereotyping at worst....Is Irresponsible. imo.

 

A.  Grant Paulsen said two people from the front office told him directly.  Haskins doesn't work very hard.  And it's a concern.

B.  Russell said he's heard about it from a number of people in that building (and Russell is a big Haskins guy, thinks he was the best QB in that draft.  Russell also said he's heard he checked out of the building often pretty early -- whatever that means

C.  Keim referred to it in a number of his podcasts (he like everything says it nicely) and said that the new people in the building (Rivera, etc) want to see Haskins work hard this off season and there is some question about him on that front. 

D. Keim saying a player told him that Haskins is getting better on that front and Haskins told said player that he took some work home with him and saw that it helped his play.

E.  Standig just referred to it in the article I posted

F. I know Finlay hit the point too but I can't recall how he articulated it. 

G.  Hoffman talked about hearing the same things.  I believe it was Hoffman if not it was a different beat guy who said they were told something to the effect that while McLaurin is mature beyond his years, Haskins not so much. 

H.  Maybe when I have some energy I'll work to dig it up but I recall some of the draft geek types saying after the combine that they've heard rumblings about Haskins having a questionable work ethic.

I.  The Ohio State reporter who talked about having access to the Ohio State QB room for an article he was writing -- Keim referenced this that he witnessed the other Ohio State Qbs ragging on Haskins for not knowing their playbook that well at the time (2017)

J.  We got the Peterson comments about how he needs to dig into the playbook 

 

We got all of that.  Then we got

A.  Callahan and O'Connell both referencing Haskins working harder post such and such

B.  We got Scott Turner referencing he wants a QB that is first in the building and last to leave and explained why.

C.  We got Doug now multiple times referencing it.

 

To me it's not really a question, its way too much noise on that front to be just some wild hearsay with no basis in truth.  I don't think it's about the front office or whomever is talking about this stuff hating on Haskins or being malicious.  There are also good things leaked about him.  He's a nice guy.  I've met him multiple times as I mentioned here, super cool dude.  It's been said he listens to advice.  He's talented.  He's smart.  It's not all piling on poor Haskins.  But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to piece together the one concern they have about him is does he love football enough to work like the Adrian Peterson types and focus on being the best.  You got me one way or another.  But considering that Doug among others keeps referencing it, I seriously doubt they are simply just shrugging off in the building as nothing to sweat about.  Instead, it seems to be the one big unknown about Haskins.

 

Personally, I think he has a decent chance to be really good. But to me this seems like the unknown narrative about Haskins.  We've had them with all our young QBs.  With Kirk i recall it was his nervousness and INTs.  RG3 - injuries.  

 

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

When Haskins shows up and goes for 4,400 yards and 32 TDs next year I want all of you saying to take Tua to eat your words. Haskins has that sort of upside IMO, and beyond, frankly. 
 

 

Generally, I'm not one to say "I told you so" but when Haskins lights it up next year I plan to.

 

Rather loudly...🤨

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Right, but because it WAS doesn't mean it IS....

Usually where there is smoke there is fire.  But obviously, as the season went on, THE HOMEWORK WAS BEING DONE and swimmingly... that takes Work Ethic!. His physical conditioning was never a question in the games that I saw or really at any point from post draft, and that takes Work Ethic!, lol,  especially with his body type. Keeping your head while your team goes 0-5 and your coach gets fired, struggling through the first 2-3 starts and finding a way to get through and shine towards the end, that takes Work Ethic! & mental toughness.

 

And as of today, post Ron Rivera, who definitely let him know what he wants, the proof will be in the pudding and reveal itself from the get go I'd bet.  I just personally don't feel the need and think it may be unfair to brand him Dwayne "questions w/ work ethic" Haskins. And when I see, mainly on this board, this issue constantly being pointed out, it just rubs me the wrong way. idk. And its only a handful of people. It isn't a big part of his national narrative imo. That's not how my friends around the country who root for other teams interpret Haskins. My concern level about Haskins' Work Ethic is 0. Cause if its any concern in the slightest this year, Ron will send him packing.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Chris Russel is not wrong, but he’s a huge, annoying, self aggrandizing, self congratulatory, attention seeking pompous blow hard.  

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Doug trying to explain what kinds of things he's telling Dwayne is normal and does not indicate DH has a poor work ethic, so I'm not sure what Russell is right about.  He's picked up on the "between the lines conversation between the Team and Dwayne" and is inferring for a storyline, but otherwise what's there.  If he's missing any required OTA's, practices, or functions to galavant, then yes sound the alarm.  But until then, I'm fine with him being present at the facility when he wants, preferably as much as possible, which is what Doug is getting at.  Doug is basically letting his bosses know Yo! "I'm doing my job," and Russell is stiring the pot, doesn't seem to be all that abnormal between either Doug v. Dwayne or Dwayne v. team..

[LadySkinsFan]

We should draft Chase Young this year and see what Haskins in a full year in 2020. If he busts we'll have a high draft pick next year for a QB. Why miss out on a defensive player like Young?

[KDawg]

4 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

When Haskins shows up and goes for 4,400 yards and 32 TDs next year I want all of you saying to take Tua to eat your words. Haskins has that sort of upside IMO, and beyond, frankly. 
 

Tua does not do it for me. Especially with those injuries. Sorry. 

Not sure anyone has said to straight up draft Tua. I, for one, have argued that he has to be in consideration.

 

Ive also said there’s a shot Haskins can put it together if he works for it. 
 

It’s called due diligence. We need to be doing it. 
 

I hope you’re right and he does do those things. That would be fantastic. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'm expecting Chase Young but preparing for Tua. I think there is a very real chance he's our QB next year. I like Dwayne and think he can be a good QB in the NFL, but I don't see "special". Tua... He's a carbon copy of Drew Brees, injuries aside you have to take him if you think he's a franchise changing QB. I say this knowing Chase Young is one of the best DE prospects I've ever seen. 

 

Would you take a prime Khalil Mack over prime Drew Brees? (Just basing this off of potential impact). I wouldn't, Dwayne's work ethic situation is very real, it wouldn't be getting mentioned over and over again by people within the organization and people connected to the organization if it wasnt a concern. 

[arftech]

The team has to do the mandatory due diligence stuff but I for one would not spend a number 2 pick on Tua.  Love his talent but the kid seems brittle to me.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

This idea that Tua is the end all be all is misguided though. If Haskins sucks and we go 6-10 this year (which I don’t think is likely unless Haskins really really sucks because I think our Def will be legit) ... you can angle to draft Fields or Lance (if he comes out from NDSU). 
 

that’s my move TBH. I’m eyeing Trey Lance because I saw him live and the dude Is like Tua but without the injuries and big school name. And because he will be a R-So coming out of NDSU he likely won’t go top 10 in a class with Lawrence and Fields.  
 

anyway, I trust Dwayne. And like others have said on here, there seems to be a lot of reading between the lines here by the media/fans on some pretty straight forward comments from Doug. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Doug trying to explain what kinds of things he's telling Dwayne is normal and does not indicate DH has a poor work ethic, so I'm not sure what Russell is right about.  He's picked up on the "between the lines conversation between the Team and Dwayne" and is inferring for a storyline, but otherwise what's there.  If he's missing any required OTA's, practices, or functions to galavant, then yes sound the alarm.  But until then, I'm fine with him being present at the facility when he wants, preferably as much as possible, which is what Doug is getting at.  Doug is basically letting his bosses know Yo! "I'm doing my job," and Russell is stiring the pot, doesn't seem to be all that abnormal between either Doug v. Dwayne or Dwayne v. team..

 

I used to think the same, it was once a problem and now it's gone.  But in the last month or so, I've gotten the impression that its not the case, its just that he improved on that front but the concerns persist.  The most optimistic picture painted was when the Ohio State reporter doubled down that Haskins wasn't the super preparer there either but improved tremendously on the count there once given the starter role. 

 

 All our young QB's had a thing that we kept hearing about.  The question was would they conquer it?  With RG3 it was injuries and rumors he wasn't loved by all in the locker room which kept building over time.  With Kirk it was could he contain his nerves and his INTs.  I recall Larry Michael saying before a game that Kirk looks visibly nervous before the start of it.  I recall the story about after a loss about how Kirk lost his cool and destroyed the soda machines on and on.

 

With Haskins the narrative seems to be nice guy, he's liked, lots of talent, smart but is he going to work hard on his craft because relatively speaking for the people in their front office and coaches, he doesn't work as hard as the typical QB.  They aren't saying he's lazy.  But for a QB to be successful, as dudes like Scott Turner like to say, they typically are the hardest working player in the locker room.  And no I don't get the impression from what's being said even when Haskins improved on that front he turned into that level of a worker albeit he did improve.

 

When some like Keim have suggested that they have concerns and want to see how he works in the off season and then we in turn see Scott Turner, Doug Williams' comments center on pushing the work ethic -- I don't think its a wild coincidence.

 

I think we all want him to be the guy and be successful.  If he is that guy this franchise is set.  Maybe with an exception or two on this thread 😀, we are all rooting for him.  And not looking for a downside just for sport.  As I mentioned, my take on Haskins is similar to what I thought about Kirk through 2014, there were good things mentioned and bad things.  I just needed to see it play out before I thought he was the guy.  I was all over the place with my posts on him until 2015.  RG3 I bought into right away.  For Haskins I think we got a wild card dynamic and with everyone saying it and the coaches echoing it -- I don't think it fits the get out of here, there is nothing to see on it.  That's all. 

 

I get the narrative that he played well in the last 2 games, so case closed, we are set.  But to play devil's advocate he played two of the worst pass defenses in the league in those 2 games.  And as Arians said in his book about QBs which I read, if his young QB's don't prepare like maniacs they don't tend to last long because over time defensive coordinators figure them out and become adept at crafting game plans to foil them.   Not saying this happens here.  I got no idea.  But count me in the group, that is neither sold nor unsold on Haskins. I really got no idea but lean optimistic.  That's pretty much the identical view I had on Kirk until the 2015 season played out. 

 

For those saying Haskins will show us how great he is and how wrong we are.  I don't get the point.  I am not saying Haskins can't be great.  But I am simply not shrugging off all the concerns from the building about him.  If we got a Haskins narrative about how he will show us -- then that same point applies to the Redskins coaches and front office people who apparently aren't all saying Haskins is slam dunk the guy and we don't have a whit to worry about. 

 

[volsmet]

11 hours ago, Burgold said:

I agree and disagree simultaneously.

 

Most people deserve a couple chances to make a first impression. Cutting a rookie after one bad preseason game might be a good move or it might be missing the opportunity to get someone who once he gets it becomes great. How many players make a huge jump from their rookie to sophomore years?

 

So yeah, I think that if a team made a high investment on a player they need to give that player an opportunity or even two to prove themselves. That said, there's clearly a point where they also can disprove themselves and there are some who do that really quickly. To my mind, Haskins is a giant question mark. I saw enough at the end to think that may be he could do this thing, but the sample size was so small. At the same time, he started out really, really, really bad. So, I have no real idea who the real Haskins is. Maybe the coaches do, but then again, other than by talking to the running backs coach, Snyder, or Kyle Smith... they haven't seen who he is or how he responds to coaching for themselves either.

Why would cutting a rookie after one pre season game ever be a good move? How does a human make a first impression multiple times?
 

People hang on to poor investments out of desperation, it’s an irrational attachment to what’s been lost rather than what you’ve got. Not to say Haskins was a poor investment of a first, but it’s entirely irrational to hang on to him, or play him, because of the first used to acquire him. The first is irrelevant, you can only hurt yourself by continuing to associate cost with an asset, it’s probably the most common mistake in sports. Emotion - our (human) hamartia.

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

This is coming from someone who been following Dwayne since his HS days, through his commitment to Maryland etc.

 

When I hear concern about his work ethic I'm surprised.

 

But with that being said, clearly there's a "perceived" issue there.

 

I don't believe he's lazy per se. I just think he's probably the type of person who thinks he's giving it his all when he actually isn't.

 

Basically, Dwayne just needs to bust his butt and show the new regime he deserves to be the QB.