FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[wit33]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

It's all ridiculous.

 

A take that he was lifting weights and working out somehow conveys the thought in Ed's mind that Haskins is now apparently a better quarterback because he spent time in the gym. That's such a bad take.

 

The idea that Haskins being on vacation or not at Rivera's presser makes him a bad quarterback: such a bad take.

 

The truth is we'll find out how hard Haskins has been working when we start getting reports of on-field stuff from non-Redskin sources. I don't believe much the players/coaches have to say about the situation as its in their best interest to be half-hearted with the truth if he's bad, and if he's good you'll hear the same praise than if he's not.

 

Until we see him, or they make a move in FA/the draft (or don't), we have no way of knowing. 

I agree with it all. 
 

The truth is he could “work hard” all off season and suck lol I believe that happens most of the time to QBs. Just damn hard to be good at QB. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The truth is he could “work hard” all off season and suck lol I believe that happens most of the time to QBs. Just damn hard to be good at QB.

The only reason I don't think that's extremely likely is because when he was working hard, you could SEE the week to week improvement.  

 

Look, when he got here, the coach basically had no use for him. He made it clear that he didn't want to draft Haskins to begin with, and then he made it clear he wanted Colt to start, and when Colt was injurred, it was Case.  Haskins was the 3rd guy, and never given an opportunity to become more than that until Jay was fired.

 

By all accounts, Haskins could have been much more committed, and wasn't. He didn't prepare the way he needed to really until he got the starting job. 

 

When he got the job, he started to work harder, and seemed to get a little better each week until he played pretty damn well.

 

I attribute this to both being young and basically in your first job, and also the environment, dare I say culture, was absolutely not conducive to being productive.  

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[KDawg]

I.... uhhh... Tua isn't a better prospect than Haskins?

 

C'mon now. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this jut seems crazy to me. If Tua came out last year he would have hands down been the consensus 1st quarterback off the board. I don't even think Kyler Murray gets taken over him. Haskins was at best the 3rd ranked guy there, likely closer to 5th. 

 

Still a good prospect, to be sure. But...

[cakmoney61]

This season will be huge for Haskins.  He must show improvement if he wants to be the Redskins QB long term.  I think most would agree that Haskins has the arm talent.  Very few will see what he may need most and that is film work and study which is not done in a weight room or on the field.  He needs to be Kobe-like in his approach.  Of course, he needs to relentlessly work on his footwork and mechanics.

 

If if if... he has the requisite skill set, his level of success will depend on how much work he puts in on and off the field.  Having that mamba mentality could take him to heights he never imagined and could make the Redskins contenders for years.

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

This season will be huge for Haskins.  He must show improvement if he wants to be the Redskins QB long term.  I think most would agree that Haskins has the arm talent.  Very few will see what he may need most and that is film work and study which is not done in a weight room or on the field.  He needs to be Kobe-like in his approach.  Of course, he needs to relentlessly work on his footwork and mechanics.

 

If if if... he has the requisite skill set, his level of success will depend on how much work he puts in on and off the field.  Having that mamba mentality could take him to heights he never imagined and could make the Redskins contenders for years.

 

To make my personal stance on Haskins clear:

 

I think he has every tool, including his surprising mobility, to be a successful NFL QB. I don't think he will ever be a top 5 kind of guy. But you know what? That might be okay. He would likely cost less on a re-sign, which is where quarterback value almost halts on second contracts. So if he can be a decent starter caliber QB (in the top 10-16 or so range) that's a pretty big win for the franchise. And I think he could be capable of absolutely tremendous games, with a few absolute clunkers sprinkled in.

 

So, I say that in order to add this: I agree with your take. If he puts the work and time in, I think he can be successful. And work, of course, doesn't mean lifting weights. That's expected. Work doesn't mean throwing with receivers. That's expected. Work means focusing on the things he doesn't seem to enjoy. I've heard he's not a film guy... WHile that's also expected, that's where he needs to put the most time in. With coaches. With players. 

 

He needs to view OTHER quarterbacks play. See how they respond to situations. And not guys like Mahomes or Jackson who are not the same player Haskins can be. He needs to see other big arm guys. He should study Byron Leftwich to see the things he did well and the things he didn't. He should watch a little of Andrew Luck. Find guys his style of play matches and watch them. Watch Aaron Rodgers. While hes none of those guys in particular, he can see how they move and react. Start to mold his game to match his skill sets. Get better at the stuff he was weaker at. 

 

He can be a good NFL QB. But, again, as you said: He needs to work for it. 

[cakmoney61]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

To make my personal stance on Haskins clear:

 

I think he has every tool, including his surprising mobility, to be a successful NFL QB. I don't think he will ever be a top 5 kind of guy. But you know what? That might be okay. He would likely cost less on a re-sign, which is where quarterback value almost halts on second contracts. So if he can be a decent starter caliber QB (in the top 10-16 or so range) that's a pretty big win for the franchise. And I think he could be capable of absolutely tremendous games, with a few absolute clunkers sprinkled in.

 

So, I say that in order to add this: I agree with your take. If he puts the work and time in, I think he can be successful. And work, of course, doesn't mean lifting weights. That's expected. Work doesn't mean throwing with receivers. That's expected. Work means focusing on the things he doesn't seem to enjoy. I've heard he's not a film guy... WHile that's also expected, that's where he needs to put the most time in. With coaches. With players. 

 

He needs to view OTHER quarterbacks play. See how they respond to situations. And not guys like Mahomes or Jackson who are not the same player Haskins can be. He needs to see other big arm guys. He should study Byron Leftwich to see the things he did well and the things he didn't. He should watch a little of Andrew Luck. Find guys his style of play matches and watch them. Watch Aaron Rodgers. While hes none of those guys in particular, he can see how they move and react. Start to mold his game to match his skill sets. Get better at the stuff he was weaker at. 

 

He can be a good NFL QB. But, again, as you said: He needs to work for it. 

 

To be clear, I don't like your post...I love it!!!!!  I have never been a person who believed the mantra "you can be whatever you want to be."  At a minimum, you must have the requisite skill set to reach the pinnacle of that endeavor.  To that individual, I would say "you can be whatever you want to be if you have the requisite skill set and if you put in the work."

 

If Haskins puts in the work, his new coaches will see it immediately.  Tom Brady has six Super Bowl rings mainly because of his mental aptitude through endless film study and probably endless questions to those who have gone before him and his contemporaries.  He is a student of the game.  He knows his offense and the other team's defense better than everyone not named Belichick.  These are the types of people Haskins should be modeling his approach after to be the best version of himself.

 

How high he goes is totally up to him and I sure hope he hungers to be great, because the great players add or improve something every off-season.  There is no ceiling on knowledge and no limit to preparation with those who want to be great.  

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

On 2/14/2020 at 2:04 PM, Warhead36 said:

I'd rather just take Burrow then trade the pick to be honest. Haskins might be good one day.  Burrow can carry your franchise for 10 years.

Its amazing what one year of stellar play will do for someone's rep. 🤷‍♂️

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think he has every tool, including his surprising mobility, to be a successful NFL QB. I don't think he will ever be a top 5 kind of guy.

I tend to agree with you, but the counter point is, why not? What has he shown that says he couldn't get there?  The argument would be work ethic early.  But apart from that...

 

To me, if you look at the "elite" Qbs, they have the following traits:

 

1:  Physical talent.  This is table stakes.  You can't be an NFL QB if you don't have arm talent, and at least some mobility.  I think Haskins has shown he has the physical talents to be elite.  

 

2:  Football IQ.  Know where to go with the ball and when.  What play to check into.  Control the game from the LOS.  This comes from work ethic in the film room and experience.  Also just God given intelligence factors in: can you quickly recall what you have seen on tape and adjust in under 3 seconds.  That's just damn freaking hard an not everybody can do it, even if they study their butts off.  This is the big question.  We don't know.  He might have it, he might not.   But there's no reason YET to say he CAN'T.  

 

3:  Throws with anticipation vs. waiting to see a guy open/Accuracy. I lump these things together, you could argue they are separate things.  However, if you throw accurately without anticipation, you're often late on the throw.  So, you have to throw accurately with anticipation.  I think we've seen evident Haskins does this sometimes. This was the big red flag with Jason Campbell.  He could not do this.  At all.  Ever.  And that limited his ceiling to middle of the pack at best.  It's somewhat related to #2, as well, but we've seen him throw with anticipation enough to know he can do it.  Just needs to be more consistent.  

 

4:  Toughness.  Both physical and mental.  You're going to get knocked down. Do you get up again?  (Gibbs said this was the #1 quality a QB had to have, FWIW). I think we've seen some of this.  Again, still TBD, but he's a competitor, stayed in a game when he was nicked up, and kept at it even when things weren't looking good.  Same as the football IQ thing, I don't think we've seen anything to say he doesn't have the toughness yet.  

 

5:   Durability.  If you're not available, you're good to nobody. This is a question, honestly.  He's been nicked up a couple times and already missed a game due to injury.  We'll see.  

 

6:  Clutch. Makes the big play instead of the big mistake at the critical times. (Howdy Kirk, welcome to the discussion. ) We don't know yet, but he did make some big throws in critical spots in a couple games.  So, again, it's a question.  We haven't seen him completely crumble in the clutch in every opportunity.  So it's possible.

 

Given all that, I think Haskins has the possibility to be a top 5 guy.  Will he get there?  I dunno.  Doubtful, if only because most don't.  By definition, only 5 out of the 32 starters are top 5. ) But there's nothing I've seen that says definitively he CAN'T get there.  Sometimes you know right away that there's just no chance. Heath Shuler, the team knew before the end of his first training camp he wasn't that guy.  I'd say we knew that about Jason Campbell pretty early.   Sometimes it's obvious pretty early.  Peyton we knew in year 2.  He had some very troubling statistics in year 1, but by year 2, it was obvious he had it.  Clearly Brady it was clear in his first year starting.  Brees is the one guy I can remember who really looked like he wasn't going to be that guy, to the extent San Diego drafted Rivers to be his replacement, then all of a sudden, he turned into the 3rd or 4th best QB of his generation behind Manning and Brady.  And if you wanted to have a Manning vs. Brees discussion, that would be extremely reasonable.  Or a Rodgers vs. Brees. Whatever.  Those 4 are it: Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers.  And maybe for a few years, Rothlisburger.  But I digress.  

 

I haven't seen anything which tells me there's no chance Haskins couldn't turn into an elite QB.  I also haven't seen anything that says he won't be out of the league in 5 years.  It's really all an unknown.  

 

The greatest probability is her's somewhere in the middle.  Because, that's what most guys are. But it's really too early to tell.  

 

[KDawg]

@Voice_of_Reason

 

I think you left two glaring aspects of a QB out of your analysis. Maturity and leadership ability. And those, in my opinion, are two of the four most important aspects - right along side work ethic and availability. 

 

He has knocks elsewhere, but I have concerns with Maturity, leadership, durability and work ethic. 

[Doctorfro]

This popped up: Haskins Worst in the NFL when no pressure

[skinny21]

18 minutes ago, Doctorfro said:

This popped up: Haskins Worst in the NFL when no pressure

I thought he graded really well when working from a clean pocket?

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

@Voice_of_Reason

 

I think you left two glaring aspects of a QB out of your analysis. Maturity and leadership ability. And those, in my opinion, are two of the four most important aspects - right along side work ethic and availability. 

 

He has knocks elsewhere, but I have concerns with Maturity, leadership, durability and work ethic. 

Yes, agreed.  Though I think maturity can come with age.  We’ll see about work ethic and leadership.  

1 hour ago, Doctorfro said:

This popped up: Haskins Worst in the NFL when no pressure

 

44 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I thought he graded really well when working from a clean pocket?

I don’t think it matters the overall grade, the thing to watch is improvement.  And I think his accuracy and anticipation hit better each game.  
 

Again, it might be a red herring, and he might suck this year.  No way of really knowing.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

I don’t think it matters the overall grade, the thing to watch is improvement.  And I think his accuracy and anticipation hit better each game.  
 

Again, it might be a red herring, and he might suck this year.  No way of really knowing.

Oh absolutely... just questioning the validity of the comment (I could be wrong about it).  
 

I’m in the camp that Haskins has all the tools (comments about him learning quickly/not making the same mistake twice were good to read as well), but @KDawg is right that it all amounts to naught if he doesn’t work his *** off.  To your point though, he showed pretty consistent improvement, which is big.  
 

Personally, I really liked the little things he showed - not staring down receivers, keeping his eyes downfield when rushed, tight window throws (all 3 things most rookies struggle with).  I’m high on his chances to become a top 10 qb if he puts the work in.  That’s a big time “if” though.  
 

 

[Gibbs828791]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

@Voice_of_Reason

 

I think you left two glaring aspects of a QB out of your analysis. Maturity and leadership ability. And those, in my opinion, are two of the four most important aspects - right along side work ethic and availability. 

 

He has knocks elsewhere, but I have concerns with Maturity, leadership, durability and work ethic. 

I would say he left a lot out of his posts to be honest! There is nothing that we have seen that makes anyone think he will become elite or a top 5 future QB. You wont find one scout, GM, VP say it. Its more of a unfounded hope from Skins fans at this point.

 

But then again I hope the Skins can bail on him before the year, either get Carr or we get lucky and get Burrow.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 hours ago, Doctorfro said:

This popped up: Haskins Worst in the NFL when no pressure

 

It's probably a mistake for anyone to try and come away with an overall grade on Haskins last year or use his cumulative stats to indicate anything about his overall performance in 2019...his early playing time was so sporadic and disjointed--and was made even more so by having his head coach fired mid-season. We'd be better served to have his stats broken down by starts vs relief duty, or first 4 starts versus last 3 starts, or something like that.

[tmandoug1]

Ok......Tua or Haskins........you get to pick soon. Chase Young or Tua?

[mhd24]

7 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Ok......Tua or Haskins........you get to pick soon. Chase Young or Tua?

 

 

If Tua was healthy, no question:  Tua

 

I don't think Haskins will ever be a top QB.  His best games were against the crappy Giants defense and the crappy Philly secondary.  I think his accuracy his atrocious.  His best throw he made all year was an out to Chris Thompson in the Packers game.  Really good throw there on the money.  Too bad that that was the extent of his accuracy.  He was REALLY bad in the Lions game where our WRs had to bail him out throw after throw with his horrible accuracy.  Accuracy is innate.  You either have it or you don't.  

 

I'm still debating taking Tua over Chase.  I think Tua is lightyears a better prospect.

[LD0506]

9 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Ok......Tua or Haskins........you get to pick soon. Chase Young or Tua?

 

If I'm Ron I already have the card filled out for Chase and I pay Usain Bolt to run it up to the podium.

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, LD0506 said:

 

If I'm Ron I already have the card filled out for Chase and I pay Usain Bolt to run it up to the podium.

I think I agree. But I think Tua is a guy, if we pass on him, we’re going to regret it very soon. 
 

A phenomenal pass rusher didn’t make Denver or Chicago good. Their quarterback play held them back (until Lock played, anyways).

 

SF you could argue was due to Bosa, but people completely discount Greenlaw and the secondary.

 

The Chargers weren’t good because of Joey Bosa. 
 

The Texans were good and they didn’t have Clowney or Watt for most of the season. 

 

There is no doubt that a great pass rush changes the math. But there is also no doubt that the quarterback is the most important position in football.

 

I think I wind up with Young in the draft, though, anyways. But I’ll tell ya what, I don’t think it’s anywhere near as cut and dry as other people do. 
 

Of course, if Tua comes out and looks horrible and his medical are iffy, drafting Young is a no brainer slam dunk. If Tua comes out and his medicals are near pristine and looks good... 

[clskinsfan]

My problem with Tua is his inability to protect himself. He is a small guy in NFL QB terms. And he has been injured a ton. We already went down the road of a QB who couldnt protect himself. And it was ugly. Exciting but ugly in the end.

[HTTRDynasty]

This time last year, Haskins was considered a raw prospect with an extremely high ceiling that would need to sit at least a full year to fix some of his flaws.

 

Instead, he exceeded expectations by getting playing time early and performing relatively well for a rookie. 

 

Yet people are already ready to give up on him after a year in which he wasn’t even supposed to see the field.  

 

 

 

[KDawg]

I don’t think most of us are “giving up on him”.

 

i think those of us who like Tua are saying Tua is a better player, will make a bigger impact, and he will do it immediately. 
 

I don’t think Haskins gets credit for surpassing expectations for playing last year. He did okay at times, not okay at others.

 

What it comes down to, for me, is that just okay is not okay. And I think Tua is a better football player than Haskins. 
 

What I am not saying, however, is that Haskins cannot be successful. He very well could be. It’s just I think Tua is truly special and if the two guys were in the same draft class, Tua is the better prospect.

[LD0506]

Here's my take....

 

You take Tua and you're basically blowing up the offense and starting from zero. Anything you got out of last year is gone. You tell Haskins to pound rocks, you kinda tell other rooks that they can go at anytime, you add an element of disruption to an outfit that has been choking on it for decades. 

 

You take Chase and you tell Haskins that it's his to lose, you tell the lockerroom that you're adding another piece to their group to improve it, not replace it, you tell the league you're focused on your plan and not out to bet the mortgage for a killer deal. Personally I think the D front is close, so we ought to finish that job, but that's just my preference. 

 

No, one guy never makes all the difference. Chase won't. Tua won't. You get Jesus to strap it up after services on Sunday and he won't. It's never about one guy, ever.

 

Having a great QB wouldn't guarantee anything. Watson didn't, Lamar didn't, the Chargers tossed Brees for Rivers and he couldn't, Dan-freekin-Marino made it to the SB one time (and cost me some bucks) and never saw it again. etc., etc. and so on. 

 

The one guy I AM looking to have a huge impact is Rivera, and a big part of that is because he isn't driven by his ego and freely admits it is a team process, but it will still be about a lot of people doing their jobs with a single focus of winning.

 

I'm not "worried" about Haskins, don't know the dude and until I catch him eating outta my fridge I'm not gonna worry about him. I do like that I saw him learn and evolve in college, he was not the same QB that started the season by the end of the year. I think he can do that here, doing that under Rivera just seems more likely, so IMO taking CY is the safe bet.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 2/21/2020 at 6:57 PM, skinny21 said:

Oh absolutely... just questioning the validity of the comment (I could be wrong about it).  
 

I’m in the camp that Haskins has all the tools (comments about him learning quickly/not making the same mistake twice were good to read as well), but @KDawg is right that it all amounts to naught if he doesn’t work his *** off.  To your point though, he showed pretty consistent improvement, which is big.  
 

Personally, I really liked the little things he showed - not staring down receivers, keeping his eyes downfield when rushed, tight window throws (all 3 things most rookies struggle with).  I’m high on his chances to become a top 10 qb if he puts the work in.  That’s a big time “if” though.  
 

 

 

This is a good summary of my position.

 

If Haskins ends up being Andy Dalton like and Tua ends up being Drew Brees like then years from now no doubt we'd regret it.  It's not often where we are in position to take a ballyhooed best or 2nd best QB in the draft.  And yeah I do have concerns about Tua's injuries so I'd leave that to the doctors though to figure out.

 

A really good QB doesn't guaranteed a SB but it almost always guarantees more good seasons than not which would be Shangra La relatively speaking for this franchise.

 

Kiper-McShay ironically just did a long podcast that centered a lot on if they'd take Tua in the Redskins shoes.

 

I love Chase Young.  And in my ideal world, Haskins is going to kill it next year and our defense will be upgraded thanks to Chase, etc.  And its not that I don't think that all is possible.  But it's a wild card.   I'll leave it to Kyle Smith and Rivera to figure it out.   If they like the odds on betting on Haskins, I'll ride that without complaining.  If they go for Tua (granted that's unlikely), I'll ride that as well without complaining.