Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 54 minutes ago, mistertim said: Well, you are both master debaters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 11/19/2019 at 3:21 PM, SoCalSkins said: He is a bust. That’s not in dispute. Time will let you accept it. Must be like the grieving process for you. Acceptance takes longer for some. It’s ok man. We are here for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 this is a hook-up thread? ok---i have an old-guy question about "tinder" how do i "swipe" left or right on my 18 year old flip phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Good. That is a positive sign ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4ever28 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 @SoCalSkins question, what did you think about cousins while he was here? And Alex Smith too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, skins4ever28 said: @SoCalSkins question, what did you think about cousins while he was here? And Alex Smith too? I thought we were stupid handing Kirk the starting job in 2015 without signing him to a team friendly extension first. He would have signed because we had all the leverage at that point. Similar to a Colt McCoy deal. Then more mismanagement with the tags. I saw him as a Brad Johnson. Not a world beater. Nice numbers and meaningful games in November and sometimes December. With the right team around him maybe get lucky. Given the alternative, that’s not horrible. We definitely messed it up. Alex was a great move to save face after all the mismanagement at that point. Would have been far smarter to send Kirk to Shanny Jr and gotten Jimmy G earlier in the year before the trade deadline. I also didn’t like giving up Fuller along with the pick but they sealed it during Super Bowl week and cut loose of the Kirk drama which was a nice reset. The extension was a bit much as well. I’m sure Alex would have done a shorter one. He still had a year left too. That seemed to be Dan and Bruce saying they are willing to commit dollars as a way of giving Kirk the finger. Obviously backed fired with the injury. Cant dwell on it now. Water under bridge and time to move on. We probably have to go through bunch of bumps in the road for a while and burn through some players until we get a legit qb, But I also think it’s a combo of luck and a numbers game as well. We are due to luck out with a franchise QB at some point. Gotta keep rolling the dice and not deluding ourselves when we miss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4ever28 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 56 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: I thought we were stupid handing Kirk the starting job in 2015 without signing him to a team friendly extension first. He would have signed because we had all the leverage at that point. Similar to a Colt McCoy deal. Then more mismanagement with the tags. I saw him as a Brad Johnson. Not a world beater. Nice numbers and meaningful games in November and sometimes December. With the right team around him maybe get lucky. Given the alternative, that’s not horrible. We definitely messed it up. Alex was a great move to save face after all the mismanagement at that point. Would have been far smarter to send Kirk to Shanny Jr and gotten Jimmy G earlier in the year before the trade deadline. I also didn’t like giving up Fuller along with the pick but they sealed it during Super Bowl week and cut loose of the Kirk drama which was a nice reset. The extension was a bit much as well. I’m sure Alex would have done a shorter one. He still had a year left too. That seemed to be Dan and Bruce saying they are willing to commit dollars as a way of giving Kirk the finger. Obviously backed fired with the injury. Cant dwell on it now. Water under bridge and time to move on. We probably have to go through bunch of bumps in the road for a while and burn through some players until we get a legit qb, But I also think it’s a combo of luck and a numbers game as well. We are due to luck out with a franchise QB at some point. Gotta keep rolling the dice and not deluding ourselves when we miss... I agree with almost everything you said, but how well did you think Alex smith played? Because I thought Alex played pretty below average. I thought Kirk was way better then Alex and way younger and was shocked we paid Alex what we did. I think Kirk has a shot at a SB right now in Minnesota, and people can talk all they want about the talent around him, he’s been playing lights out. And he usually played pretty damn good for us too. however with all that being said I feel like haskins actually looked half decent after watching the game film, and I really do think he has a lot of potential. I’m glad he said that to the oline men, cuz I think that’s the biggest problem with this organization, is that we have no players that care. People come here to retire. We need kids like that to light a fire under some of these guys asses. Just like Michael Irvin said when Jimmy Johnson came to Dallas. He gave him all the names of players that didn’t care about winning and just were there to collect a check. Jimmy sent them packin first thing. We need a coach and a gm to come in here and do that. Haskins is raw, he is young, but he also has talent and a fire and god almighty we need that so bad. The truth is, will Bruce get fired or not. If not, then I have no faith in what coach he hires. He will just hire another friend of his from Tampa and we will be the victim of cronyism again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Alex was not a world beater. He also had AP playing well. But we were 6-3. He also came back to hand us our butts the year before after we had the lead against the Chiefs. You can’t downplay Alex and the record then praise Haskins for getting garbage time stats. I did not see the o line incident as favorable for him at all. I’m kind of over the whole give players time excuses. Look at McLaurin. Stars shine. And even then with QB it’s usually a flash in the pan fools gold. Patience with Haskins isn’t going to get us anything other than more wasted years in my opinion. I am honestly 100 percent convinced he’s the biggest miss have had in a long time. Which is ok. We took a shot. Maybe Dan doesn’t pull the same move next time. It’s probably better that he is an epic miss actually in that regard. Let the football people handle the player evaluation. Missing on a player is excusable and expected with a QB. What’s not excusable is throwing more time, unfit coaches and resources to try to make it work when you know it can’t. My biggest worry is we are in for Jim Zorn 2.0. You think this is rock bottom? Give it time if we take that approach which based on past history is exactly what we will do... PS- I get people getting attached to a player and wanting to give him time and resources. I have been guilty of it. I really drank the RG3 kool aid. I loved that dude. I was arguing for hiring Art Briles to give him the best chance to succeed after Shanahan. That was before the whole Baylor scandal. I still watch 2012 games probably once or twice a month. But sometimes you have to give up the fantasy and accept reality and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 hours ago, SoCalSkins said: PS- I get people getting attached to a player and wanting to give him time and resources. I have been guilty of it. I really drank the RG3 kool aid. I loved that dude. I was arguing for hiring Art Briles to give him the best chance to succeed after Shanahan. That was before the whole Baylor scandal. I still watch 2012 games probably once or twice a month. But sometimes you have to give up the fantasy and accept reality and move on. Your condemnation of Haskins makes sense to me now. I have no idea if Haskins will be able to run a pro offense and become a franchise QB but I find your condemnation encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Your condemnation of Haskins makes sense to me now. I have no idea if Haskins will be able to run a pro offense and become a franchise QB but I find your condemnation encouraging. He was hurt personally and cant allow himself to love again. Give him a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFanInMinn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 16 hours ago, Jumbo said: this is a hook-up thread? ok---i have an old-guy question about "tinder" how do i "swipe" left or right on my 18 year old flip phone? I was glad when you added "flip phone" at the end there. I was starting to get really concerned about the NSFW-ness of that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Watching that all22 through a few times, there was more positive than I initially thought. Receivers and blocking let him down several times and lead to stalled drives. The bad snap/fumble on 3rd and 2 that Haskins recovered, he would have had an easy conversion to Sprinkle. The int and 2 of the drops, his receiver slid just as he was throwing. Think he made the wrong read to Quinn on the int (Harmon was open in same vicinity), but the other 2 I put on the receiver. On one of the scramble plays (incomplete to Smallwood on the wheel route), Quinn would have had loads of space, but he followed his defender (ostensibly because he felt he should be blocking him). If he had just slowed down, easy pass and catch. Drop by Sprinkle for the conversion was ugly and really bad timing (3rd and long I believe). Nice play by Haskins though. On one of his sacks, Smallwood let his guy run free as he went out on his route. If Smallwood had gotten his head around quicker (or picked up the rusher), Haskins could probably have avoided the sack. Many of Haskins throws were a bit erratic in their placement, though virtually all catchable. He did not have many bad decisions/reads. I counted I think 3 passes he had better options available and a couple scrambles where he could have dumped the ball off a bit sooner. Obviously had some good throws as well - his arm really helps overcome some of the tight coverage and pressure. Had some nice plays to avoid pressure and get the pass off of course. Play calling looked ok for the most part, though at least twice all of his receivers ran well covered deep routes with no outlet receivers and he took sacks. Maybe could have thrown those away (or up for grabs, but no one had their head turned). Anyway, better game than I thought from Haskins, especially as the D and run game were not helping much. I have to agree with him that everything negative he put on tape is correctable. Most importantly though, as we’ve all said, he’s gotta work hard on his mechanics. Edit: meant to mention, he had a pretty savvy play on our goaline - rb screen was covered, so he tucked it and ran for a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 On 11/20/2019 at 3:17 AM, CowboyKillerz said: Jason Campbell??? Wt holly **** Does he have to do with this thread?? Holly **** batman, that was like 20 ****ing years ago!! With as many qbs since!!! Smmfh Ok, it was only 10 but still. And anything you may have thought then is irrelevant- BUT nobody knows what his career COULD have been given a better (stable) situation, right coaching, and players around him. Funny thing is his career QB rating is higher then most would guess... Not gonna fact check Wiki but Elway the one and only HOFer I crossed checked has a lower rating.. All that for- who the serious **** cares about JC here and now on this thread? Get a clue man- no one cares wtf you posted then just like bust or Hall with DH... No one will care what you spewed here in 4 years either way he turns out. We ALL know that we dont know... And wont for a long while. Telling us about all your vegas winnings would be less boring- but equally irrelevant to DH. WE GET IT Actually Jason Campbell has alot to do with this thread, How many wasted years under Zorn did we spend waiting for JC to develop in to the first round QB he was suppose to be ? Todd Collins stepping in and leading us to the playoffs..... I'm too old to sit through another 4 or 5 years of Dwayne Haskins stinking up the joint , sorry, Same goes for Keenum, Colt and Alex Smith. Get them all the F out of here and bring in some young guns with potential because this current roster of QB's has ZERO POTENTIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: I'm too old to sit through another 4 or 5 years of Dwayne Haskins stinking up the joint , sorry, Same goes for Keenum, Colt and Alex Smith. Get them all the F out of here and bring in some young guns with potential because this current roster of QB's has So what you want is to draft another young QB based on his potential and put him into a situation were he will have thin air at both tackle spots, a group of young receivers who apart from McLaurin are also long on potential and short of results and literally zero at TE? That's not counting the glaring need for a quality cover corner, FS, and edge on the other side of the ball. All while junking a QB who we just drafted based on his potential after 2 starts. That's your position? 2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: ZERO POTENTIAL A guy who threw 50 TDs in his one year starting in College has zero potential? Thats just nonsense. He may or may not develop into a quality starting QB and its perfectly reasonable to have doubt - but to state without doubt at this point that he is a bust with no potential to develop is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: So what you want is to draft another young QB based on his potential and put him into a situation That's your position? Thats precisely my position , feel free to revisit my post in 3 or 4 years when Haskins is in the pro bowl , but he won't be, I'v seen it all before.... 6 minutes ago, MartinC said: A guy who threw 50 TDs in his one year starting in College has zero potential? Thats just nonsense. He may or may not develop into a quality starting QB and its perfectly reasonable to have doubt - but to state without doubt at this point that he is a bust with no potential to develop is just ridiculous. Ohio state has produced a long list of NFL ready and successful QB's said NO ONE EVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: Thats precisely my position , feel free to revisit my post in 3 or 4 years when Haskins is in the pro bowl , but he won't be, I'v seen it all before.... Ohio state has produced a long list of NFL ready and successful QB's said NO ONE EVER The odds are in your favor, given the bust rate of highly drafted QBs Those same odds will of course apply to the next guy we draft if Haskins does not pan out or show strong signs of panning out by the end of next season. Until then strap in and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: Thats precisely my position , feel free to revisit my post in 3 or 4 years when Haskins is in the pro bowl , but he won't be, I'v seen it all before.... Ohio state has produced a long list of NFL ready and successful QB's said NO ONE EVER I haven't liked much of what I've seen from Haskins and I certainly think he's headed towards being a bust. But that doesn't mean I think we should give up on him this quickly. Need to be able to see if he can make improvements from game to game, week to week. And then need to see what he can do with a full offseason. If he's still struggling this time next year, well, I think we'll have seen all we need to see. Let's not pretend that the QB position is the only thing holding this team back from contention. We don't have the '85 Bears defense and Walter Payton in the backfield. This team has holes all over the place. If we had a stacked defense, great receivers and a running attack, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Like I said, I think he's not going to be a good QB but if you're going to draft a QB that high, you gotta put him through the ringer and make sure. I'm looking for small improvements this week against the Lions, hopefully he can flash more than he did against the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said: 1 Let's not pretend that the QB position is the only thing holding this team back from contention. We don't have the '85 Bears defense and Walter Payton in the backfield. This team has holes all over the place. If we had a stacked defense, great receivers and a running attack, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. You know what Spiff, I'm not about "contention anymore. I'm passed that stage in the Redskins Dan Snyder ERA. As i said in another post I'm all about the Redskins being respected, having a feared passing game like we had with #8. This team is never going to "contend" or "win a Superbowl" with snyder. Being EXCITING on Sundays is good enough for me. We wont have that with Haskins, I can tell you right now, I'v seen it all before and so have you and so has Martin, you guys are just in denial. But you know it deep down inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: You I'v seen it all before and so have you and so has Martin, you guys are just in denial. But you know it deep down inside. Look we are all fans. All we can do is hope for the best while expecting the worst. And the odds are that ANY QB we draft into this toxic situation is going to struggle. Deep structural change is needed and new people much higher up than QB or even HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: You know what Spiff, I'm not about "contention anymore. I'm passed that stage in the Redskins Dan Snyder ERA. As i said in another post I'm all about the Redskins being respected, having a feared passing game like we had with #8. This team is never going to "contend" or "win a Superbowl" with snyder. Being EXCITING on Sundays is good enough for me. We wont have that with Haskins, I can tell you right now, I'v seen it all before and so have you and so has Martin, you guys are just in denial. But you know it deep down inside. Well I'm not sure what I'm in denial about seeing as I agreed with you that I think Haskins is headed towards being a bust. I think where we differ is that I'm willing to give him more of a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be content with never seeing him take the field again. That all being said, to your point about being EXCITING on Sundays isn't going to happen with any quarterback on this roster at the moment. Not Haskins, not Colt, not Case. I think we should be able to agree on that. From where I sit, it seems logical to say that all three of those quarterbacks don't bring any excitement to the table. Case and Colt certainly don't and Haskins hasn't done it so far. So if we're going to agree on that, we should also be able to agree that there's one QB out of the three (Haskins) who COULD have some upside. Case and Colt are known quantities at this point. And if we're going to draft a QB at 1:15, we need to make sure he can play...or not. And like I said, I don't think he's going to be good but I at least want to see enough to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel.redskins Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 If we have a chance for Burrow, we have to take him. But in all likelihood, he will be a Bengal. I like Haskins better than anyone else. Tua has injury concerns. Herbert will be great for a team that has the supporting cast, like Tennessee or Tampa Bay. Not here. I say we trade back the second pick for more selections and build around Haskins. Draft heavy in OL and TE. I like the WRs we have. I'd like to have TL and Harmon starting with PR at slot. Quinn and the two Sims will be fine as backups. Repair the secondary in free agency. Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyKillerz Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: Actually Jason Campbell has alot to do with this thread, How many wasted years under Zorn did we spend waiting for JC to develop in to the first round QB he was suppose to be ? Todd Collins stepping in and leading us to the playoffs..... I'm too old to sit through another 4 or 5 years of Dwayne Haskins stinking up the joint , sorry, Same goes for Keenum, Colt and Alex Smith. Get them all the F out of here and bring in some young guns with potential because this current roster of QB's has ZERO POTENTIAL Ok cool... So who is this miracle franchise qb savior? We need help allllll over this team. I for one am ok with trying to develop Haskins and building around him. If we have a worthy oline, a formidable pass rush, and a capable D.. THEN we can insert a qb and be competitive if Haskins trully is not able to improve. At this point we are not a franchise that can take who, Burrow? And excell. We will flounder with ANY rookie qb- and miss out on pieces that can help. Im ALL for Chase Young- preferable via trade back to 3 and getting a 2nd... Trading whom ever we can for picks and taking the best olinemen and TE (in that order) available. Im also for BPA so that may look different. The idea of drafting a qb high to fix this team has proven fatal over the years... If we see something in one of the qbs then we have to pull the trigger- but as of now I'm not all in on any of the top prospects over DH. I was worried of Tuas inhury history and he might never play again. We need to build this team from the ground up is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Assuming heads will roll in January and Brucifer holds a press conference to announce changes and/or a new hire, etc. I'm seriously hoping the press regulars will strap-on their big-boy pants, take off the gloves and ask some incendiary questions. I want them to start with: 1: Bruce, does the buck stop at the top in Redskins Park? And if so, when does Dan plan to come down from his ivory tower and address the press and the fans? 2: Bruce, the 2019 Redskins are a historically bad team, the fans are disillusioned and staying away in droves. Do you still maintain the culture at Redskins Park is damn good? 3: Bruce, the Redskins once proud franchise is in ruins, the team is a laughingstock and Fedex is owned every Sunday but fans of the opposing team. How would you grade your involvement in the current state of the franchise? 4: 5: Feel free to join in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoshuaj Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 If DH is so bad and conceding that the entire team is a cluster****, wouldn’t a reasonable thought be to let Haskins get the **** kicked out of him while they (hopefully) get the circus straightened out before bringing in another qb to ruin? They’re not winning anytime soon, make DH the sacrificial lamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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