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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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14 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


I was just as spot on with Jason Campbell. In fact you argued with me for years. You were probably amongst the biggest kool aid drinkers then. So before even attempting to disparage me on a different topic, please acknowledge your complete and utter humiliation before you embarrass yourself again. Thanks! 

 

Ok so you didn't address the point, not surprising.

 

Did passing the bar also give you license to act like such a condescending ass to anyone who disagrees with you? I realize you're stuck on the Campbell stuff, but you still refuse to address any actual points being brought up now about how you somehow seem to know everything that goes on in the huddle, in practice, and in the locker room with Haskins. 

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36 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Ok so you didn't address the point, not surprising.

 

Did passing the bar also give you license to act like such a condescending ass to anyone who disagrees with you? I realize you're stuck on the Campbell stuff, but you still refuse to address any actual points being brought up now about how you somehow seem to know everything that goes on in the huddle, in practice, and in the locker room with Haskins. 


No your years of arguing with me and not acknowledging your complete failure gives me license to be condescending to your continued nonsensical diatribes and useless questions. If you want to apologize with hat in hand eat some crow maybe you can start to make amends to your destroyed credibility.
 

At this point your arguments and opinions are proven failures and have been for nearly a decade. So maybe listen more and argue less. Since nearly every position you have taken has been proven to be wrong. This topic in particular is not the one to bet against my position. Not unless you want to continue being wrong over and over again. Which you apparently enjoy doing...
 

 

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9 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


No your years of arguing with me and not acknowledging your complete failure gives me license to be condescending to your continued nonsensical diatribes and useless questions. If you want to apologize with hat in hand eat some crow maybe you can start to make amends to your destroyed credibility.
 

At this point your arguments and opinions are proven failures and have been for nearly a decade. So maybe listen more and argue less. Since nearly every position you have taken has been proven to be wrong. This topic in particular is not the one to bet against my position. Not unless you want to continue being wrong over and over again. Which you apparently enjoy doing...
 

 

 

Ok, so you won't address the points. Got it. 

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Jason Campbell??? Wt holly **** Does he have to do with this thread?? Holly **** batman, that was like 20 ****ing years ago!! With as many qbs since!!! Smmfh

 

 

Ok, it was only 10 but still.

 

And anything you may have thought then is irrelevant- BUT nobody knows what his career COULD have been given a better (stable) situation, right coaching, and players around him. Funny thing is his career QB rating is higher then most would guess... Not gonna fact check Wiki but Elway the one and only HOFer I crossed checked has a lower rating..

 

All that for- who the serious **** cares about JC here and now on this thread? Get a clue man- no one cares wtf you posted then just like bust or Hall with DH... No one will care what you spewed here in 4 years either way he turns out. We ALL know that we dont know... And wont for a long while.

Telling us about all your vegas winnings would be less boring- but equally irrelevant to DH.

 

 

WE GET IT

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3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

m convinced this is purely a skit. I'm still debating whether its for a blog, a radio show, a draft thing or just to rile up ES in a time of despair. 

Same. I think he’s just giving the board something more entertaining than the team on the field

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The thing I love about this bust vs not bust argument, is it doesn't matter.  There's a less than zero percent chance if Dan made the pick, that Dan won't hire a coach that isn't committed to giving Haskins a chance.  Given the state of the franchise we won't be pulling an Arizona and moving on from a top pick a year later.

 

The only exception would be if Dan has somehow miraculously realized his mismanagement and turn it over to football people to run.  But be honest with yourselves, it's been 20 years, the time for Revelations has all but past for Dan.

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Haskins style dictates that he needs pass pro as a priority. It's exacerbated by long slow pass plays, no hurry up, no rhythm ever established, and what appears to be a lack of timely PAP.  He is not the mobile QB that breaks defenses backs on scrambles after mad jailbreak blitzes. He needs structure, we have only chaos.

 

Our OL consistently allows defenders to come free when rushing just 4.  It's almost like our OL needs to hold hands and form a wall, since its become painfully obvious that we cannot figure out who gets who.  Presnap nor post snap.  It has nothing to do with Haskins lacking proper protection calls.

 

When Haskins was asking his OL what does he need to do, he needs to start expecting a man to come free every pass play, and make his hot the primary on every snap. If we blind squirrel it and happen to get everyone blocked, pump fake the hot and go from there. It's not the players fault, it's how they are coached as it is one mental mistake after another. None of these players would ever graduate to the Pro's with this level of futility. They were fine in college and previous stops.

 

Sadly our OL needs to run max protect yet Callahan is too arrogant to realize he has failed, and that it's needed. If not max protect, quick passes, deception - things normal teams do. I heard a fantasy guy call out Callahan as a 3rd rate 1992 head coach.  Here we were all afraid of using Flowers who now appears to be our best OL, likely because he has been influenced by Callahan the least.

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Per wit33
"His pocket awareness is what I’m most encouraged about. He’s very willing to hang in the pocket and has shown an ability to get outside the pocket both going right or left. An example was posted above your quoted post above of great pocket awareness and standing strong in the pocket.  "

If you stop action that video you will see that there was little or no pass rush on that play and Haskins never takes his head off the intended receiver who was wide open in the middle of the field. If he had hit him in stride the play could have gone for much more. Probably could have delivered the ball much sooner and as it was barely got the ball off. Haskins did step up to avoid #34 for the Jets but I doubt he knew he was there.

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1 hour ago, Smurf3 said:

Per wit33
"His pocket awareness is what I’m most encouraged about. He’s very willing to hang in the pocket and has shown an ability to get outside the pocket both going right or left. An example was posted above your quoted post above of great pocket awareness and standing strong in the pocket.  "

If you stop action that video you will see that there was little or no pass rush on that play and Haskins never takes his head off the intended receiver who was wide open in the middle of the field. If he had hit him in stride the play could have gone for much more. Probably could have delivered the ball much sooner and as it was barely got the ball off. Haskins did step up to avoid #34 for the Jets but I doubt he knew he was there.


Not saying you won’t be proven right about Haskins not being a legitimate QB in the NFL, but this play was great, no matter the QB. In no way implying his day was great, just a flash in an overall average game by rookie standards. The elite QBs often times lock on one WR during a play (especially when under potential duress)not necessarily a bad thing. 
 

Im always looking for the positive while a player is on the uphill climb, so I can definitely be jaded during this period of trying to reach a conclusion. As it stand today, I don’t have a good feel on Haskins, but am encouraged by his physical abilities and mental makeup (though, that’s taken a hit as this year has gone along... but the media has a way of clouding our minds with false narratives , so trying to remain neutral). 

 

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So if you listened to the Junkies this morning, they had on Gus Ferotte and asked him about his first two starts. This was kinda a one-off and it wasn't focused on but Gus said that he threw a lot of balls a lot harder than he wanted to (in his first two starts). I wonder if the same thing is happening with Haskins. He had a lot of drops (I counted 8, others have said 5), but I wonder how similar this is to Gus's situation (and probably other QBs). 

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2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

Pretty sure he's the same guy who told SoCalSkins and I to "get a room" when he and I were debating lol...ay have even said we were embarrassing ourselves as well, not sure.

 

We met at the ES tailgate in Arizona around 2005 if I'm not mistaken. I'm too pretty for you. I can do better. 🤣

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In looking it up, I discovered that Sammy Baugh is the only QB the Redskins picked in the first round who became  successful. Yikes. I guess Norm Snead was okay, but he only played a couple seasons for the Skins.

 

Appropo of nothing, I guess, but certainly provides a longer-term perspective.

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4 hours ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

 

Hey wait a second, Peter Hailey posted an article similar to my post!  I'm not him, so we now know of at least 1 journalist who lurks these internet backwaters!  Be warned Peter Hailey, thar be dragons in the uncharted corners of this forum.  You can still save yourself from ridiculous hot takes and kneejerk reactions!  The rest of us have been pulled in and there's no escape.

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I just wanted to throw in tha tone marker for a QB is that they can improve the talent of those around him - particularly the WRs. In the first half he says he wasn't getting calls that helped him and he talked to KOC about that and they opened up the playbook. But here are the looks that the targets got by quarter: 

 

1st quarter: 

AP - 2/2 for 7 yards

TMac - 0/1 

Hentges - 1/1 for 0 yards

 

2nd Quarter: 

TMac - 2/2 for 87 yards (67 yarder didn't count)

?? - 0/1

Sims - 1/1 for 9 yards

Smalwood - 0/1

Quinn - 2/2 for 9 yards

Harmon - 2/2 for 9 yards 

 

3rd Quarter: 

Harmon - 2/3 for 32 yards

Sims - 0/1

Smalwood - 1/2 for 11 yards

?? - 0/1

 

4th Quarter: 

Quinn - 1/2 (including 2 pt conversion), INT

Sims - 1/2 for 3 yards

Sprinkle - 2/3 for 16 yards, TD

Hentges - 0/3 (including incomplete on 2 pt conversion)

Harmon - 1/2 for 12 yards (including PI on 2 pt conversion)

Guice - 1/2 for 45 yards & TD

?? - 0/2

TMac - 2/2 for 49 yards
 

So looking at this, we see that he moves from the RBs and TEs in the first to more WRs later in the game, but I'm jst looking at the attempts to guys and he seems to be giving guys opportunities. If we count the play that didn't count, then TMac had 100+ yards, Harmon had the best game of his career, Sprinkle almost had 50+ yards receiving, Guice showed his playmaking ability, Sims had a lot of attempts. Nothing to write home to mama about and twitter analysts are showing how he could have made better reads, but we're seeing the ball go to a lot of different guys and while we're not getting big plays we are getting opportunities for these guys to emerge. 

 

This more than anything gives me hope for next year, as well as the remainder of this year because I think we're going to see a lot more from Harmon, Sims ans Sprinkle as the year progresses. Maybe they won't be stars but we'll see them get balls thrown their way and see what happens and that's the best way to see what we have on the team. 

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Comparing the numbers I posted earlier to some stuff from earlier in the year
 - Harmon had 6 targets this game (probably because he started) which was his max of the year. 
 - Smalwood posted his most targets against the Bills and Jets (3 each game), max 2 before that against the Vikings, and max 1 otherwise. 
 - Sims had 4 targets, maximizing his number of targets, which is up from a max of 3 against SF and NE. 
 - Richardson didn't play this week but he had 5 targets against Buffalo, which was a max since NYG (he had 7, 3, 9, 5 in the first 4 weeks of the season). 
 - TMac's targets were down to 4 (but that should be 5 if we consider the 67 yarder). 
 - Quinn has consistently been gettign 3 or 4 targets a game since week 4. 
 - Sprinkle had 3 targets this game - max since Miami, where he was on a 4 week stretch of 3+ targets per game). 
 - Hentges had 3 targets, max for the year. It was disappointing because he dropped the ball a few times
 
I honestly think that if Sprinkle and Hentges and Burton can get their hadns together one can emerge into something like a Paulsen or if we're really lucky a Mike Sellers 

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3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

Pretty sure he's the same guy who told SoCalSkins and I to "get a room" when he and I were debating lol...ay have even said we were embarrassing ourselves as well, not sure.

 

Well, you are both master debaters...

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So ... QB is always an emotive position/subject that causes a lot of strong opinions. Especially when we have not had one who is REALLY good for a LONG time.  GIven our history at the position and record in general it's natural for people to get a bit ... heated. Recently this thread is flying just the right side of OK, like JUST the right side.

 

Please stick to debating football and not other posters IQ, looks or who they ended up in bed with after a tailgate (not that there's anything wrong with that and to be honest we could all do better than @Califan007). Please feel free to attack their posts and positions - but not them. 

 

Also we are all entitled to an opinion and to defend that opinion. This is a football board though and it makes for much better discussion if you defend your position based on something other than "my opinion is better than yours' or continually make the same point without adding anything to it or developing an argument. At some  point that is just trolling - which is not allowed.

 

Again, right now, it's just about all good. Let's work to keep it that way people.

 

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