FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[volsmet]

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

My point about the secondary was only that there is some talent there to build around. Dunbar was adequate before his injury last year. Some thought he was playing better than Norman at times. 

 

I absolutely love Dunbar... I like Moreland a lot, but Dunbar has something special imo, he’s very fluid in coverage for a taller guy, I’m excited about him despite his decision to attend such a shameful university.

[RWJ]

25 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I absolutely love Dunbar... I like Moreland a lot, but Dunbar has something special imo, he’s very fluid in coverage for a taller guy, I’m excited about him despite his decision to attend such a shameful university.

If Dunbar can stay healthy he can be a VERY good player for us.  

[Anselmheifer]

19 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I absolutely love Dunbar... I like Moreland a lot, but Dunbar has something special imo, he’s very fluid in coverage for a taller guy, I’m excited about him despite his decision to attend such a shameful university.

That's funny. 

 

 

I would love it if Moreland won the nickel CB job. He's got an obvious talent for creating turnovers, and he has some dog in him. I think he'd fit in great with Jonathan Allen and company. Imagine our CB crew if we had a true number one. CB is also, curiously, a spot where top guys become available in trade and FA. It isn't beyond the pale that we land a CB1 through FA or a trade. 

 

Since it's a Haskins thread, I'll also say that what I really want from Haskins seems to mesh well with his strengths. He seems to be great at quickly making reads and distributing the ball to playmakers. I think that the best QB's often win because they let you invest less in OL and receivers. It's funny how New Orleans and Pittsburgh keep finding these hidden gems at WR, right? 

[Going Commando]

McLaurin feels like James Thrash, but he's going to have a better QB throwing to him.  But there is some legit verticality to his game and I don't think you're passing offense will be that bad with him at flanker.  I also think he's got a chance to start fast because he's old for a rookie.

 

I think we might have a strong big slot option in Harmon but that he's a couple years away.   Quinn might be something solid next year, but probably nothing remarkable.  Richardson is a JAG and Doctson should have shown more by now.  He has the highest upside and he's out only passable split end option but he's a draft bust.  He was an old prospect too, and he's not an aggressive player who can lead a passing game.  He's not changing at this point.

 

Haskins might be able to do the Brady style utilization of JAG personnel in time, but that's years away in the best case scenario.

 

We need to run the ball this year.  But our OL is unreliable and our backs are as injury prone as possible.   The offense is going to be pretty bad. 

[Bacon]

2 hours ago, ThePackisback said:

I'm devasted now. Bucks lose to Raptors. Tough loss. We will never win a championship.

 

The Bucks already have a championship. In fact, they swept a team that eventually became the Wizards. 😑 

 

Do you mean with this group? Because they absolutely could with more big game experience.

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 hours ago, ThePackisback said:

I'm devasted now. Bucks lose to Raptors. Tough loss. We will never win a championship.

 

Well, it'll make you feel better to know that this Redskin team is made up of a lot of former Bucs.

Maybe that's why you feel so at home here. 😄

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think we might have a strong big slot option in Harmon but that he's a couple years away.   Quinn might be something solid next year, but probably nothing remarkable.  Richardson is a JAG and Doctson should have shown more by now. 

 

I think that more than any other position, the WR group will be decided heavily by injuries. Richardson is an injury prone guy, Quinn was injured a lot last year, as was Sims.

 

People complain about Doctson but at least i know what to expect from him. 35 & 500 is not great but he's been consistent with that the past two years. If he plays 15 or 16 again I'd expect the same. But injuries will probably open the slot and other spot up, and that may mean Harmon and McLaurin. 

 

Problem is, this is a lot of names but not much experience and all it takes is two injuries and we're forced to question if we want to play Davis with no experience or a guy off the street. 

 

But I think the unknown is how they'll be used. We saw some change to Doctson's game when Colt came in, but with Johnson he returned to form. I don't expect Haskins to make him an all pro, but i wonder if a guy like Harmon or Quinn can be somebody to bail him out on third downs and keep the chains moving. 

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Imagine our CB crew if we had a true number one.

I wonder if the new rules make it possible to really have a true number one like that. There's something to be said about teams with lines that can penetrate from the interior or with a speed rusher because it helps the corners so much. Also, i think somebody like AP and the Alex Smith style offense can help because if we can get a lead and play mistake free, it forces them to have less opportunities and try to live by big plays more often instead of sustaining drives. And that's where the gambling corners can thrive. But it's also where guys get beat cause they're caught cheating. 

[DWinzit]

Quote

 

5 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

I absolutely love Dunbar... I like Moreland a lot, but Dunbar has something special imo, he’s very fluid in coverage for a taller guy, I’m excited about him despite his decision to attend such a shameful university.

lol.    The importance of getting a healthy Dunbar back is being overlooked. His play was a big reason the FO felt comfortable enough to let Breeland go and trade away Fuller (still makes me ill). He was lost halfway into the season. He is an exciting player and still has upside as he really is still learning the position!

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But I think the unknown is how they'll be used. We saw some change to Doctson's game when Colt came in, but with Johnson he returned to form. I don't expect Haskins to make him an all pro, but i wonder if a guy like Harmon or Quinn can be somebody to bail him out on third downs and keep the chains moving. 

 

I have some sympathy for Doctson.  He's a vertical outside receiver who was definitely minimized last season in a key year for a wr's career development by having qbs that can't/won't throw the ball downfield.  But his problems are with aggression and consistency as much as anything else.  He is a passive player who blends in more often than he steps up and takes over a lead role.

[RandyHolt]

13 hours ago, NickyJ said:

If it hurts Haskins feelings that someone who is playing better gets more playing time, then Haskins does indeed get to develop and grow something: Some big boy pants, ones that he can pull up.

 

Here is one take. it's not about his feelings. It's about what is best for the team long term.

 

Case kind of ensures mediocrity, a crappier draft pick and really has no upside.  Any chemistry he and the receivers have, will be gone next year.  It doesn't take much for a vet QB to "beat" out a 21 year old rookie.  Collective teams over the decades have been following the 'sit the rookie' model for decades as we witnessed one QB after another ruined, or wasting away.  Sit them a year or 2, and then test them... just seems like waste of time and draft capital. 

 

If that was THE model to follow, the modern day trend to using young QBs successfully would never have been born.  I call bunk that Aaron Rodgers had to sit for 3 years. Maybe the Pack would have had a few more Bowl wins had they started him as a rookie.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for this offense, the O line's health is my greatest concern.  We seem to lose Trent for at least 4 games a year and in 2 or so he plays seriously banged up.  This time we don't have Ty to back him up.  We got Scherff coming off an injury.  We still got questionable depth IMO on the interior.  If we lost Trent at some point then this O line quickly becomes at best pedestrian. 

 

The receivers lack a true #1 guy.  I presume the goal in the next draft is to fix that.  McLaurin and Harmon were ironically two of my favorites among the 2nd tier group of receivers.  I recall advocating among other times for McClaurin the same morning we took him.    But rookie receivers rarely kill it right away. 

 

McLaurin:  I think he's underrated because he didn't have the numbers that Parris Campbell did in that offense but he wasn't targeted nearly as much.  But his numbers were actually good.  His catch rate %.  His yards per target was #1 among the receivers in this draft.  11 TDs.    Haskins QB rating targeting McLaurin was insane --beating Tua with any of the Alabama receivers.  The dude is a great blocker.  He can beat press coverage.  He runs 4.35.  My point is he can be star level good.  I'd guess he ends up a good receiver as opposed to a great one.  But I'll take it.  My one concern is his hands aren't special. I think he can play Z or X. 

 

Harmon:  I didn't watch him until late in the process.  But I was impressed with him.  I know the rap is he has 4.6 speed so can he separate.  But the games I watched the dude was just about always open.  He separated IMO better than N'Keal Harry who I also liked.   I think there is more to him than the rap that he's just a physical dude who will make contested catches.  He does have good-strong hands.  Like McLaurin the dude can block.  He's physical in the open field with the ball in his hands and can be a YAC guy. 

 

Paul Richardson:  I liked him in FA and in retrospect I was wrong.  It's not that I didn't like his play in the short spurts last season but the dude was mega injury prone in Seattle and that's followed him here.  And physically he is mega thin -- sort of the RG3 equivalent of a receiver where you think he can be snapped in half by a good hit.  I think it was weird when Doug said this off season that the Z receiver in this offense needs to be a blocker that's why you wouldn't for example play Richardson as a Z -- I am thinking dude Richardson was playing Z plenty.  I'd see him as an X at times but Doctson played a lot of X.  When he was healthy, he was one of go to guys for sweeps or to fake a sweep before they handed the ball off.  I don't think he's anything special.  But he has his moments in Seattle when he made some big plays.   At the time I wanted some speed.  But now that they have McLaurin I am less into Richardson. 

 

Doctson:  the one thing I'll give him is whenever I would freeze some of the offenses frames, you'd see him open often.  I noticed it for the first time at the opener which I was at.  Alex is conservative so didn't throw his way much.  But for the first half of the game i was on the side where Doctson played mostly and had a good look at him.  I don't think at this point Doctson is anything special to say the least.  But it wouldn't surprise me if he took another step this year.   I see him right now as a decent #3 type WR. 

 

Quinn:  He seemed to get open in the Arizona game the times he was in the game.  He doesn't seem though to have special speed or elusiveness in the open field.  Cooley says he's a good blocker but I haven't paid attention to 

 

As for the clips below,  the first two frames I put here ended up as an incompletion with Alex running to his right and he basically threw the ball away to the sideline at the end of this.  I posted it because it was one of the rare spread formations.  You had Thompson lined up as a receiver on the inside and ended up wide open, doing a quick out.  Richardson was getting open for a shallow cross.  I can see Haskins thriving with some of that stuff.  And i think he will be more decisive than Alex with plays like that.  On the third clip you can see Thompson and Reed wide open in space in between the numbers with plenty of room for YAC.

 

Part of the reason why I am not in the Jay is a buffoon as a play caller crowd is its actually easy for me to find clips like this whenever I watch coaches tape.  For me I don't think the #1 issue with the passing offense is Jay struggling or even the receivers not being hot -- the #1 problem IMO with the passing game has been the lack of a franchise level passer IMO.  You put a Matt Ryan or a Big Ben type with this crowd and I think you have a difference scene.   So even with a mediocre group of receivers Haskins might fare better than we think if we give him time.  As for Jay IMO his weakness as a play caller is playing the percentages as for when to call runs-passes and with what formations.  But even with that weakness, the receivers find a way to get open in his offense. 

 

Don't get me wrong i'd love to have a true #1 receiver.  There is nothing hot about our receiving corp.  But I do think a high level passer will fix some issues. 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Has anyone seen Haskins conditioning and endurance put to the test?

 

I am theorizing a lack of conditioning may be why he doesn't run.  After watching him sweating through workouts, it dawned on me that with his thick frame, it all may be tied together.   It's just a theory, but something I don't think I have seen thrown out there.

 

I will always call bunk that a 21 year old athlete "can't run".

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Has anyone seen Haskins conditioning and endurance put to the test?

 

I am theorizing a lack of conditioning may be why he doesn't run.  After watching him sweating through workouts, it dawned on me that with his thick frame, it all may be tied together.   It's just a theory, but something I don't think I have seen thrown out there.

 

I will always call bunk that a 21 year old athlete "can't run".

 

I recall one of the criticisms of him that some say played a part in his drop in the draft was the combine.  And it wasn't just the slow 40 but that he cramped afterwards.  Apparently, according to some cramping is a sign of being out of shape.  I posted a few days back what some of the scouts said about him  and one of the concerns from one of the scouts was can he stay in good playing shape.

 

Personally, I have no idea.  I am just saying the point you raised has been raised by others.  My thought for now is its tough to get out of shape leading into the season considering training camp is plenty long enough.  I recall O'Connell or someone saying that Haskins was willing to throw the ball nonstop in minicamp so that's a good sign. 

[RandyHolt]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I recall one of the criticisms of him that some say played a part in his drop in the draft was the combine....

 

Thanks for sharing, so it's not a full on wild Internets conspiracy theory.

 

If he doesn't play this year, maybe its in part to learn how to take care of his body.  In NHL circles the Capitals Brooks Orpik was the resident player health cop that taught the greenhorns right from wrong. We finally won a cup under his guidance.

 

Maybe Haskins will learn more valuable info from athletic freaks like AP more than he will from Case Keenum.  Dedication to his craft not just mentally but also physically.  The things Case can best teach him, he may already know from getting to where he is already.

[Fresh8686]

10 hours ago, volsmet said:

I would love to read what you all see in this game.

 

 

 

 

Random observations

 

He would do well to take a page from Jonathan Allen and our d-line and learn how to embrace and love being uncomfortable. I feel like he hates being uncomfortable which on the flip side is also partially his motivation for his preparation and learning how to absolutely shred defenses so he doesn’t have to be. However, handling this will give him another opportunity or way to root out his bad habits while under pressure. 

 

I loved that bit of improvisation/backyard football he had with his TE Farrell in the 4th quarter. One of my favorite traits of Haskins is that he doesn’t mentally give up when his 1st read doesn’t work out. He’ll work through his progressions and if that doesn’t pan out he can also change routes with his receivers on the fly. I’ve seen him make these kinds of plays a few times in the 4th quarters of games. A lot of people, their mind shuts down when under pressure. They just lock up and tunnel vision, reacting rather than being proactive like Haskins shows here. Sure he’ll rush his timing under pressure a lot, but his mind and eyes won’t stop looking and that gives me a sense of optimism.

 

Resetting his eyes and finding his read on that botched snap was a positive. 

 

Mclaurin needs to do a better job of catching with his hands. He needs to be a dog and go and grab that ****. 

 

 

[ThePackisback]

Ok I'm over the Bucks loss and feel better. Anyways what do you guys think the Packers will do this year? How about the rest of the NFC East?

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

McLaurin:  I think he's underrated because he didn't have the numbers that Parris Campbell did in that offense but he wasn't targeted nearly as much.  But his numbers were actually good.  His catch rate %.  His yards per target was #1 among the receivers in this draft.  11 TDs.    Haskins QB rating targeting McLaurin was insane --beating Tua with any of the Alabama receivers.  The dude is a great blocker.  He can beat press coverage.  He runs 4.35.  My point is he can be star level good.  I'd guess he ends up a good receiver as opposed to a great one.  But I'll take it.  My one concern is his hands aren't special. I think he can play Z or X. 

 

 

As for the clips below,  the first two frames I put here ended up as an incompletion with Alex running to his right and he basically threw the ball away to the sideline at the end of this.  I posted it because it was one of the rare spread formations.  You had Thompson lined up as a receiver on the inside and ended up wide open, doing a quick out.  Richardson was getting open for a shallow cross.  I can see Haskins thriving with some of that stuff.  And i think he will be more decisive than Alex with plays like that.  On the third clip you can see Thompson and Reed wide open in space in between the numbers with plenty of room for YAC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a DB on top of Doctson, no?

 

McLaurin had some nice offers & camped at OSU to get one but Urban told him he couldn’t offer him because of his hands; Urban told him to catch 100-200 balls a day & return in 2 weeks showing improvement if he really wanted the OSU offer. He got the OSU offer 2 weeks later.

 

1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

Random observations

 

He would do well to take a page from Jonathan Allen and our d-line and learn how to embrace and love being uncomfortable. I feel like he hates being uncomfortable which on the flip side is also partially his motivation for his preparation and learning how to absolutely shred defenses so he doesn’t have to be. However, handling this will give him another opportunity or way to root out his bad habits while under pressure. 

 

I loved that bit of improvisation/backyard football he had with his TE Farrell in the 4th quarter. One of my favorite traits of Haskins is that he doesn’t mentally give up when his 1st read doesn’t work out. He’ll work through his progressions and if that doesn’t pan out he can also change routes with his receivers on the fly. I’ve seen him make these kinds of plays a few times in the 4th quarters of games. A lot of people, their mind shuts down when under pressure. They just lock up and tunnel vision, reacting rather than being proactive like Haskins shows here. Sure he’ll rush his timing under pressure a lot, but his mind and eyes won’t stop looking and that gives me a sense of optimism.

 

 

[ThePackisback]

I think the Giants will be in last place. Philly won't be as good without Foles and Dallas won't win more than 9 games. Skins win the division at 11-5.

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Has anyone seen Haskins conditioning and endurance put to the test?

 

I am theorizing a lack of conditioning may be why he doesn't run.  After watching him sweating through workouts, it dawned on me that with his thick frame, it all may be tied together.   It's just a theory, but something I don't think I have seen thrown out there.

 

I will always call bunk that a 21 year old athlete "can't run".

 

Haskins has worked fairly obsessively since he was around 1st grade — worked to become a QB, he was a ... big boned kid, he was heavy in elementary school. There has never been a human who put more time, by the age of 22, into becoming a QB, than Haskins has. He’s a great person & a hard worker, he just has a different body type. 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

There is a DB on top of Doctson, no?

 

McLaurin had some nice offers & camped at OSU to get one but Urban told him he couldn’t offer him because of his hands; Urban told him to catch 100-200 balls a day & return in 2 weeks showing improvement if he really wanted the OSU offer. He got the OSU offer 2 weeks later.

 

 

 

Doctson is wide open in the 3rd clip I have there. But my point on the post was not about linking Doctson specifically to any of those clips. I was  talking about the receivers in general. Those clips was just showing some plays that I think can work well with Haskins. 

 

The Doctson point was in general. I posted a ton of clips last year and yeah I saw Doctson open a bunch of times where he didn’t get the ball. Nonetheless, as I said in that post, Doctson to me right now looks like a number 3 type wideout.

 

as for Mclauren yeah saw the article about him catching balls per Urban’s request. Good stuff.

[volsmet]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Doctson is wide open in the 3rd clip I have there. But my point on the post was not about linking Doctson specifically to any of those clips. I was  talking about the receivers in general. Those clips was just showing some plays that I think can work well with Haskins. 

 

The Doctson point was in general. I posted a ton of clips last year and yeah I saw Doctson open a bunch of times where he didn’t get the ball. Nonetheless, as I said in that post, Doctson to me right now looks like a number 3 type wideout.

 

as for Mclauren yeah saw the article about him catching balls per Urban’s request. Good stuff.

 

Should be covered there, but maybe not. I haven’t given up on Josh, perhaps our young QB will fire him up a bit, the deep game is open again in DC. 🙌

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Should be covered there, but maybe not. I haven’t given up on Josh, perhaps our young QB will fire him up a bit, the deep game is open again in DC. 🙌

 

 

here's what it looked like on the back end.    And that's after seconds have ticked off and Alex is throwing so that's not a play developing -- he's got 3 yards on the corner behind him and about 4 yards on the safety ahead of him.

 

Though like I said my point on Doctson had nothing to do with those clips.  My point on that specific clip wasn't Doctson related about the potential of the underneath throws and Thompson in particular.   The next clip shows Thompson gets the ball on that play.  The third clip here has Thompson lining up wide.  The 4th clip shows that playing out -- Thompson who I circled is wide open on the right -- looked like it helps on that side of the field that a safety is preoccupied with Doctson. 

 

 

[wit33]

5 hours ago, DWinzit said:

lol.    The importance of getting a healthy Dunbar back is being overlooked. His play was a big reason the FO felt comfortable enough to let Breeland go and trade away Fuller (still makes me ill). He was lost halfway into the season. He is an exciting player and still has upside as he really is still learning the position!

 

Love having at least one corner that can run with any WR in the league, Dunbar is that guy. 

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

here's what it looked like on the back end.    And that's after seconds have ticked off and Alex is throwing so that's not a play developing -- he's got 3 yards on the corner behind him and about 4 yards on the safety ahead of him.

 

Though like I said my point on Doctson had nothing to do with those clips.  My point on that specific clip wasn't Doctson related about the potential of the underneath throws and Thompson in particular.   The next clip shows Thompson gets the ball on that play.  The third clip here has Thompson lining up wide.  The 4th clip shows that playing out -- Thompson who I circled is wide open on the right -- looked like it helps on that side of the field that a safety is preoccupied with Doctson. 

 

 

 

Down, distance, and time are crucial variables to these snapshots, Cards could be playing soft for different reasons. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

Haskins has worked fairly obsessively since he was around 1st grade — worked to become a QB, he was a ... big boned kid, he was heavy in elementary school. There has never been a human who put more time, by the age of 22, into becoming a QB, than Haskins has. He’s a great person & a hard worker, he just has a different body type. 

 

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere too, but I'm not sure where it comes from.  If you watch the start of the video below, and again around the 3 minute mark, it looks like he was fairly skinny as a youth.  Seems like he has the potential to lose weight and/or tone up if he pushed himself to do it, but maybe he just loves food too much lol.

 

 

[bowhunter]

2 hours ago, ThePackisback said:

Ok I'm over the Bucks loss and feel better. Anyways what do you guys think the Packers will do this year? How about the rest of the NFC East?

HOF Packer Bart Starr passed today