FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[XxSpearheadxX]

I truly hope haskins fights to get his job back and achieves it. He hasn't been cut from the team, his story is what he makes it. 

[Playaction2Sanders]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Still getting love from around the league, which is cool to see...

 

 

And yeah, this:

 

 

 

I mean when you have Burrow and Herbert out there doing what they are doing and there are rumblings about his work and prep habits I get why the decision was made. I would have preferred to see him develop. I know Peyton Manning struggled early but his counter part that draft was going 1-15 2 ints and 4 fumbles vs Kansas City. So you had to feel like you could stick with Manning longer and deal with those mistakes.. When Brady came into the league what did the Brady 6 do? Did you not see the special on how crappy those QB's were? I still say our scheme needs serious work, Haskins needs to mature work on his footwork, and we have to work towards his strengths..

[Est.1974]

Well this could get messy. It is very easy to put the boot into Haskins, but he doesn’t appear to help himself from what I read. That’s should be countered with caution I suppose, two side to every story and all that.

 

Bottom line, he hasn’t looked good and he’s got the demeanour that draws criticism quickly. He should work on that.

 

I’m also trying to figure out Rivera with this. I’m fine with the benching. Next few games will be interesting. I’m keen to see how Rivera manages his QB group.

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

 

I’m also trying to figure out Rivera with this. I’m fine with the benching. Next few games will be interesting. I’m keen to see how Rivera manages his QB group.

 

It's simple.  

 

Rivera is a guy who played in the league, played for one of the best teams ever in the '85 Bears and won a Super Bowl with them.  He's won as a coach, and has gotten back to the Super Bowl as a coach.  He coached one of the leagues most dynamic players in Cam Newton.  He's well respected around the league by everyone.

 

He's got cancer and he clearly doesn't give a **** about what anyone thinks, it's probably put things into perspective for him and maybe even others around him.  He's sending a message loud and clear to Dan, to the rest of the front office, to the staff and players:  I'm in charge, and if I'm going out, I'm not going out coddling a QB draft pick that has not been good and has not impressed me.   And no one on the roster is safe.  

 

My prediction about QB is that Kyle Allen gets a few weeks, he might provide a spark.  But after a couple of bad games, he goes to Alex Smith.  In fact, I bet he'd want to go to Alex Smith now but he wants to make sure he's completely ready to get back on the field from a physical perspective and knows enough of the offense to operate.

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

It’s simple.

Nothing is simple in these parts  but yes, I don’t disagree with what you’ve posted.

[ntotoro]

4 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

 

 

Anyone can be classy when they win..

 

Maybe he should have looked to see if Brady was off taking selfies in the stands with a minute or so to go.

 

[KDawg]

I’m curious about Montez. He’s got the same knocks as Haskins coming out... he just wasn’t as good. Rocket arm. Poor mechanics. Happy feet. 
 

I’d love to see if he’s improving or not. 
 

To clarify, I’m not saying he’s a starter or he’s better than Haskins. Just improvement from Montez means the coaching is doing its job. Lack of improvement brings the coaching more into focus.

 

Though I suppose Kyle Allen is also a coaching test. 

[max21]

Being a fan of this team is just the best 

[Riggo#44]

7 hours ago, Painkiller said:

I find it amusing that so many not in the building every day, from some talking heads, to players and fans, who don’t see what Dwayne was doing in practice can conclusively know that he was benched way too soon....that Dwayne was “done wrong.”  They assume that he was putting in the work to get better.  

 

I don't recall this much outrage over Josh Rosen.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

It's simple.  

 

Rivera is a guy who played in the league, played for one of the best teams ever in the '85 Bears and won a Super Bowl with them.  He's won as a coach, and has gotten back to the Super Bowl as a coach.  He coached one of the leagues most dynamic players in Cam Newton.  He's well respected around the league by everyone.

 

He's got cancer and he clearly doesn't give a **** about what anyone thinks, it's probably put things into perspective for him and maybe even others around him.  He's sending a message loud and clear to Dan, to the rest of the front office, to the staff and players:  I'm in charge, and if I'm going out, I'm not going out coddling a QB draft pick that has not been good and has not impressed me.   And no one on the roster is safe.  

 

My prediction about QB is that Kyle Allen gets a few weeks, he might provide a spark.  But after a couple of bad games, he goes to Alex Smith.  In fact, I bet he'd want to go to Alex Smith now but he wants to make sure he's completely ready to get back on the field from a physical perspective and knows enough of the offense to operate.

 

 

 

That's how I see it, too.  And for those few up and arms about it, I don't think he shares the same premise thay maybe Haskins is the guy so lets open up the sample size even more. Also,  Rivera said to death in the off season in different ways that the intangibles are key with the QB spot.  If its true that Haskins isn't putting in the time after developing that same reputation last year and they also don't like his play -- that's quite the double punch.  There were some concerns about his work ethic before the draft.  I've posted some of those articles eons ago on this same thread.  This stuff from the WP isn't exactly out of left field. 

 

Some say this is a WFT thing.  I don't get that.  This team is basically run by Rivera's guys from Carolina which weren't known for dysfunction.  Kyle at the helm in personnel.  It's not the same crowd that was here before.  It's not a WFT thing, its a Rivera thing.  Either you trust him or you don't. 

 

As for what some say that QB's are developed and not born.  IMO that's true but its a two way process.  The player is a key participant in their own development.  Their attitude, work habits all of it matter.  We could just pretend everyone is just making up concerns about Haskins for some misguided reason albeit it looks like we got two different regimes with the same rap about him and Rivera's reputation is for honesty and integrity not for stirring the pot for odd reasons   

 

I was not a Haskins guy before the draft.  Yet, I tried to be as optimistic about him as much as I could.  I said on this thread many times, I was hot and cold about him, more cold than hot though.  Because heck I'd love him to be a franchise QB.  I was optimistic about him before the season liking the stories that he turned the corner as for working.  But I said before the benching that I'd back Rivera on whatever he did with Haskins and trust it.  So when he benched him, I trusted for sure he's not the guy.  And the WP story added for me the same red flags from last season -- same story.  And I know I don't think its because Rivera is on some weird quest to damage Haskins reputation and throw a franchise QB out the window for no good reason.  In short, I trust Ron here. 

 

Reading Arians' book on Qbs, I'll just say this.  Based on what he looks for, if you gave him a QB with erratic accuracy, pedestrian pocket movement and questionable work ethic -- his summary would be = bust.  He got into detail about what he likes in QBs.  He'd like Haskins arm but overall, I think he'd fail his tests. 

 

 

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’m curious about Montez. He’s got the same knocks as Haskins coming out... he just wasn’t as good. Rocket arm. Poor mechanics. Happy feet. 
 

I’d love to see if he’s improving or not. 
 

To clarify, I’m not saying he’s a starter or he’s better than Haskins. Just improvement from Montez means the coaching is doing its job. Lack of improvement brings the coaching more into focus.

 

Though I suppose Kyle Allen is also a coaching test. 

 

Montez, Dwyane, Allen all seem a bit raw.   makes me wonder if the thought by some of the beat guys that Alex Smith is going to end up being the guy might be on the money.  Alex isn't raw.  I recall reading somewhere that Alex went to town in the off season to master this system among other things. 

[Skinsinparadise]

to me this showcases what I saw in camp a year ago.  I mentioned then he really struggles with short passes where he has to go horizontal -- by the numbers in the flat.  His strength is short vertical. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I don't understand this take I see two open recievers 

 

Cooley challanged Orlovsky on twitter for that stuff.  Sheehan and Cooley joked about it on one of his podcasts. 

 

 

 

[profusion]

So, Rivera loses Michael Wilbon but wins over the team. I'm guessing that's a trade-off he can live with. 😄

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Maaaan @ that Dwayne accuracy video posted by SIP.  Some of those are just so "this can't be real" and the primary reason why many of us are not shocked about him being benched.  

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, profusion said:

So, Rivera loses Michael Wilbon but wins over the team. I'm guessing that's a trade-off he can live with. 😄

 

It's funny the more mediots like Wilbon and JLC come out railing Rivera, the more I am okay with this.

 

There are three factors I want these bloviating jackasses to address: the worst starting quarterback, repeated mistakes, and not working hard enough to improve those mistakes. The smart, rational analysts are watching film and pointing out where he needs to--and has yet to--improve.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

It's funny the more mediots like Wilbon and JLC come out railing Rivera, the more I am okay with this.

 

There are three factors I want these bloviating jackasses to address: the worst starting quarterback, repeated mistakes, and not working hard enough to improve those mistakes. The smart, rational analysts are watching film and pointing out where he needs to--and has yet to--improve.

I think JT O’Sullivan has been both the most fair to Haskins and yet very critical of him. His stuff is great. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’m curious about Montez. He’s got the same knocks as Haskins coming out... he just wasn’t as good. Rocket arm. Poor mechanics. Happy feet. 
 

I’d love to see if he’s improving or not. 
 

To clarify, I’m not saying he’s a starter or he’s better than Haskins. Just improvement from Montez means the coaching is doing its job. Lack of improvement brings the coaching more into focus.

 

Though I suppose Kyle Allen is also a coaching test. 

 

Just listened to Standig who doubled down on hearing about preperation issues with Haskins since he's been here.  If all of that is true (plus some rumors about him on that front predraft), as a coach (you would know better than me) I figured that would be the kiss of death especially if I had a player who is raw.

 

Those throws that I posted of Haskins missing players in the flat on the numbers or past the numbers, that's exactly how he looked to me a year ago in camp.  So when Rivera says Haskins has not progressed they way they'd like -- it doesn't sound like a comment from Mars for me.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

Russini on Get Back right now, “What a disaster it’s been in Washington...”.

 

Only for us is benching the lowest rated passer in the league “a disaster”.

[Conn]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Russini on Get Back right now, “What a disaster it’s been in Washington...”.

 

Only for us is benching the lowest rated passer in the league “a disaster”.

It doesn’t matter that it was the right move, it’s still “a disaster” because he was our 1st round pick a year ago. It’s a sunk cost we’ll be happy to move past under new leadership, but it’s still a reminder of the last big swing and miss from Snyder. Now we can move forward, hopefully 

[redskinss]

People keep talking about how they need to give him time to develop but I trust the coaches.

How many first round quarterbacks in league history completely bombed with their first team and then went on to have successful careers?

I'd imagine that number is extremely low.

If our coaches decided that benching haskins was the best course of action for this team then I believe them.

If they decide trading or releasing haskins is the best course of action, then I believe them.

Teams get first round quarterbacks wrong all the time but extremely rarely do they ever get it wrong once they've been in their system for a while.

If the wft gives up on haskins I'll be absolutely shocked if he goes on to anything more than a mediocre career elsewhere. 

[CaptainChaos47]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Reading Arians' book on Qbs, I'll just say this.  Based on wbhat he looks for, if you gave him a QB with erratic accuracy, pedestrian pocket movement and questionable work ethic -- his summary would look be = bust.  He got into detail about what he likes in QBs.  He'd like Haskins arm but overall, I think he'd fail his 

Agree with everything in your post.  Wanted to point out this part because I read his book last year after reading one of Gibbs books. This was a great read for any football fan and between this book and watching the Cardinals on All or Nothing I was really hoping we would have a shot a grabbing Arians to coach here.  Don't get me wrong I'm happy about the Rivera hire, but I have a great respect for Arians after reading that book.  Based off his assessment of Leaf pre draft when he was with the Colts I'm not sure Haskins even gets drafted here assuming he had any say in it.  Maybe a late round development pick but certainly not 1st round. Im rooting for Haskins and hoped he would be the answer especially after the new staff came in, but right now he's just not there and I agree with Rivera that he needs more time to learn the system and clean up some of his mechanics issues.  Here's to hoping he puts the work in and comes out even better.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It doesn’t matter that it was the right move, it’s still “a disaster” because he was our 1st round pick a year ago. It’s a sunk cost we’ll be happy to move past under new leadership, but it’s still a reminder of the last big swing and miss from Snyder. Now we can move forward, hopefully 

 

I agree. 

 

But I think the warped part about the criticism is some of the same national reporters who criticized Dan's involvement in the process and called it dysfunctional when they took Haskins is also criticizing Rivera for not letting it play out longer.

 

I far from always agree with Sally Jenkins but IMO she nailed it in her column that Rivera is trying to put an end to the dysfunction and that's part of the reason why he's making that move with Dwayne.

 

I don't get the logic that some in the national media have and also a few stragglers on this thread which is even with Dan's involvement, you have to play out that hand that's already been played through thick and thin.  My thought is why do you have to?  Dan made the bed so now the functional solution is to lay in it for as long as it takes?  So yeah I think some of their logic is off.  I think this was a no win situation no matter what happened aside from Haskins working out. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m curious about Montez. He’s got the same knocks as Haskins coming out... he just wasn’t as good. Rocket arm. Poor mechanics. Happy feet. 
 

I’d love to see if he’s improving or not. 
 

To clarify, I’m not saying he’s a starter or he’s better than Haskins. Just improvement from Montez means the coaching is doing its job. Lack of improvement brings the coaching more into focus.

 

Though I suppose Kyle Allen is also a coaching test. 

 

I saw one of Montez's cut-ups last night and it's impossible to tell if he's operating better than Haskins now.  But he wasn't, back in college.

 

Here's my amateur analysis of his physical ability.

 

He's got a good arm, but it's not quite at Haskins level.  He's more athletic than Haskins, but that isn't saying much.  His feet do more naturally flow with his body when he's changing reads, which is a big plus over Haskins.

 

He's worse with accuracy for the odd-angle-feet-not-under-him throws that Haskins can do...but Haskins isn't accurate enough there anyways.  Montez attempts those throws less, so it doesn't quite matter.

 

He does need a clean pocket to get off his quality throws.  He likes a wider base for his arm and accuracy to look good.  He does need to speed setting that base up though. 

 

He moves in the pocket surprisingly well.  Steps up, spins out, rolls out, etc.  He shows all of the usual methods you look for in a QB to buy time against pressure.  At first I thought he was going to be a legit scrambler.  He can kind of do it, but his top speed and his acceleration...is noticeably lacking.  A bit better than Haskins but it isn't saying much.

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I saw one of Montez's cut-ups last night and it's impossible to tell if he's operating better than Haskins now.  But he wasn't, back in college.

 

Here's my amateur analysis of his physical ability.

 

He's got a good arm, but it's not quite at Haskins level.  He's more athletic than Haskins, but that isn't saying much.  His feet do more naturally flow with his body when he's changing reads, which is a big plus over Haskins.

 

He's worse with accuracy for the odd-angle-feet-not-under-him throws that Haskins can do...but Haskins isn't accurate enough there anyways.  Montez attempts those throws less, so it doesn't quite matter.

 

He does need a clean pocket to get off his quality throws.  He likes a wider base for his arm and accuracy to look good.  He does need to speed setting that base up though. 

 

He moves in the pocket surprisingly well.  Steps up, spins out, rolls out, etc.  He shows all of the usual methods you look for in a QB to buy time against pressure.  At first I thought he was going to be a legit scrambler.  He can kind of do it, but his top speed and his acceleration...is noticeably lacking.  A bit better than Haskins but it isn't saying much.

 

 

Isn’t this what I said?

[wit33]

20 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Amen.  If you can't run the offense and have to tailor it to crossers and screens like against Baltimore, its impossible to evaluate the rest of the offense.  How do we know what AGG, Wright, and Sims can do if they are handcuffed by Haskins
 

 

 

Im sure there’s some truth to what you’re saying, but my guess is Sims would credit Haskins a great deal for being in the position he’s in today, a player not drafted to having a secure spot in his second year. He had big numbers to end the year with Haskins at the helm. Terry this year is on pace for 100 catches and 1500 yards. Gibson looks to be an ascending player coming off his best receiving game. 
 

I think the benching is a bit premature (excluding any reports about day to day stuff), but not up in arms about it. His level play didn’t seem from my laymen view to be at level of not being able to evaluate other skill guys. 
 

*Side note: I do think Gibson benefits greatly from the change to Allen based off my 13min of watching highlights of Allen lol and the way his eyes seem to operate: will look to threaten the D downfield, then scramble to play make and looks short. Obviously, CMC has a lot to do with it. 
 

20 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

He's an undrafted player who worked his way to backing up cam newton then went 6-7 on the field as a starter. Pretty sure he's capable of playing some NFL ball. If he learns from his mistakes in turning the ball over and holding the ball too long or taking unnecessary shots downfield he's going to be good. He can definitely make throws downfield and read a defense better than Haskins. Also he's not a statue

His running ability will have us all thinking we have the next one lol It can be pretty fun to watch. Him throwing the ball has a lot to be desired, he seems willing to make the throws a coach is asking him to make down the field but lack the arm talent required consistently and that gets him in trouble with INTs. 

 

 

11 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

Dwayne and his agent knew this was coming. And Dwayne getting deactivated and now doing all this social media nonsense. Seems like he’s trying to force his way out and got his agent on board.
 

 

This is actually the smart move for a player in today’s game. Owners and coaches had complete control of players previously and players dealt with it, no matter the situation. 
 

The tough part is if no one else in the league wants you. We’ll see if he had any other supporters in the league. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Hooper said:

Now I don’t think KA is the answer, but he did win his first five starts in the NFL, looked better than Dwayne ever did at times, and was a higher ranked prospect than Dwayne in HS.

 

Ah, who am I kidding? It will just be a different type of dumpster fire.

 

 Nice hedge. You win either way. lol

 

I lean with what hope for and that is Allen provides a spark, due his timing, willingness to make contested throws, and overall ability with his legs. He has a fair amount of starts, so I lean towards him struggling to sustain consistency in managing games in their entirety. 
 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 10/7/2020 at 1:40 PM, IrepDC said:

Mentioning no off-season, a new coach, new offense, our young OL and limited weapons on offense was hardly offensive, and was only necessary because Washington is clueless- constantly looking for a scapegoat while ignoring other glaring weaknesses. The way that tweet has been blown up shows how weak our team mindset and culture really is.

 

It appears as if you are looking for the scape goat, in this case the team.  

 

Of course that agent's tweet was offensive. Imagine if you are one of those players who he considers "few offensive weapons".  If I was one of those players I'd be pretty upset that the agent is blaming them and not the guy who sailed passes over their head.