SoCalSkins Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 25 minutes ago, megared said: You're basically saying he can't be 23, can't be himself, and everything that comes of it is his fault by not completely altering everything he does, to please some vague criticism that points to perceptions and not observable events. But the fact of the matter is that even if he did those things, it'd never be to your liking, because you don't like the guy. And that's fine. He can't have his attitude and be successful. He should not have been drafted to begin with. If you are assuming you can't change his personality, then you never draft him. If you do, you can't be shocked when he is who he is. A smug kid not interested in hard coaching or film study or input from teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 46 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Who said anything about Rivera? Do you think he's the one leaking this stuff to the press? I've heard this ever since he announced he was benched yesterday and before the leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said: He can't have his attitude and be successful. He should not have been drafted to begin with. If you are assuming you can't change his personality, then you never draft him. If you do, you can't be shocked when he is who he is. A smug kid not interested in hard coaching or film study or input from teammates. Last sentence is a conclusion you've brought yourself to. I agree there's a good chance he won't make it anywhere in the NFL. But not being able to play and having a bad attitude is the toxic combination. Plenty of guys have made it sans a bubbly personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, Heisenberg said: I've heard this ever since he announced he was benched yesterday and before the leaks. Definitely not from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, megared said: That's EXACTLY what conjecture is...a stretch. It's convincing one's self that perceived behaviors in others is true, because you also detected it. Despite the fact you aren't in the locker room, or have any real observations about the dude's habits. The guy played bad. If you're fine with him playing himself off the field, do you need to present observations about your perception of his personality, as facts? Ultimately, everything not on a stat sheet is conjecture to fans, as we aren't there - so I'm missing your point. This is now 2 regimes in a row that have leaks about him not working hard enough. It feels like you're missing the point on purpose as a means to make this about something it isn't. Maybe Dwayne is super hard worker guy and the leaks are just BS to be racist or whatever you think it is. I just don't find that likely. It seems much more likely that if he was really this hard working, nose in the playbook, winning personality guy that we wouldn't be talking about him being 3rd string. Typically how hard someone is working towards a goal becomes evident in their improvement. We aren't seeing the improvement, if we were - this thread would be going much differently. For example, you want this to be about his mechanics (fair enough) but refuse to see how not putting in the work could lead to his mechanics not improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, megared said: Last sentence is a conclusion you've brought yourself to. I agree there's a good chance he won't make it anywhere in the NFL. But not being able to play and having a bad attitude is the toxic combination. Plenty of guys have made it sans a bubbly personality. No one is asking for a bubbly personality. You need a player who is dedicated. Not someone who doesn't want to hear criticism. A player who has a seemingly great game but is still very upset at what he left on the field. Those are the guys that make it. You can pretend to want those things but very few actually do. It's why there are so many busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, megared said: Last sentence is a conclusion you've brought yourself to. I agree there's a good chance he won't make it anywhere in the NFL. But not being able to play and having a bad attitude is the toxic combination. Plenty of guys have made it sans a bubbly personality. There's bad attitude like someone being a jackass, then there's bad attitude like someone who thinks he's entitled and "arrived," but clearly isn't putting in the work as he's making the same mistakes over and over and has the worst QBR in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, MartinC said: Got it - all good. Just be aware of how that kind of joke can come across in a thread like this one! Completely understand. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: ...are you high? Yes, having preternatural work ethic and ability and NOT acting like others your age is a REQUIREMENT to be a successful profession athlete, and even more so to be one of the less than 32 stable franchise QB’s in the entire world. He’s not just any 23 year old! Neither is any other 23 year old professional athlete. And he had an entire year and a half to realize that, and didn’t. This isn’t some concept that’s been invented in this thread. It’s universally excepted. You're generalizing. Or you can be really good at the sport you're playing through natural ability. Some guys wake up beasts and don't ever have to work at it. I can't assume you understand what it takes to be a professional athlete if you don't believe these are actual people. 22 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: I appreciate* that the argument has shifted from “his work ethic is fine and none of your business” to “his work ethic is like that of your average 23 year old and you’re trying to steal his youth and hold him to a higher standard than your neighbor Jared from Enterprise!!” Maybe we’re getting somewhere. *note: sarcasm I have no problem with “the guy” whatsoever and in fact wish very badly that Haskins was the answer to our QB troubles. I’d love to root for him as our franchise QB if that’s what he was, we’d be lucky. Frankly, after going back and forth with you a few times here, I think you should be receiving Mod warnings for so flagrantly misrepresenting people’s posts (arguably to the level of out-and-out trolling) and for the grand craftsmanship of the straw-men you’ve lovingly erected and destroyed. I never even implied his work ethic was fine. I said that since you probably have no idea, you opining on his work ethic, and drawing conclusions based upon it, is needless noise to the conversation of him losing his starting job. 2 minutes ago, ntotoro said: There's bad attitude like someone being a jackass, then there's bad attitude like someone who thinks he's entitled and "arrived," but clearly isn't putting in the work as he's making the same mistakes over and over and has the worst QBR in the league. Nah man, the only time your attitude matters is when your talent doesn't trump it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 more rough times for Simba... though this is pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 56 minutes ago, ZarG3 said: So when does the Lose out for Lawrence or the Fail for Fields threads start? Lol. It was started on Sunday. By the way, it is Tank For Trevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2020/10/8/21505995/rams-preview-week-5-washington?src=rss Lots of stuff in this article about the Haskins goings-on. Too much to quote here, but one interesting thing is a comment about how there was a de facto QB competition in training camp and Haskins beat out KA who didn't look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 6 hours ago, heyholetsgogrant said: 😁 God forbid if we try to win, every game this year (except maybe the Ravens game) we were in it. This team is better than what people think, getting better QB play can put us over the hump of at least being respectable. What we just did is getting us the opposite of respect in the football world, but okay. Same old Washington, like I said. My expectations after this are that we continue to chase mediocrity, because we can't be patient or loyal enough to build a winning team. We'll see if the team proves me wrong, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: First: Haskins' trade value can't get much worse than it is right now, so that is a very poor excuse from Cooley IMO. I'd rather Rivera didn't undress him some publicly. Springs this morning suggested yeah he's rather have the direct criticism. For me I am perfectly fine with a bogus excuse versus ripping Haskins. 22 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Second: If it is B., that's an indictment on this staff that they've "seen enough" after only 4 weeks from a QB who everyone knew was raw and would take time to develop. And those expectations were without him being in his 3rd offense, in a COVID-shortened offseason. But what if they weren't enamored at all with Haskins? What if they studied him and were leaning that he's not that guy. And from what they saw in practice perhaps both on and off the field, they figured it out quickly for sure in their minds that he's not the guy. I guess I am just not that bothered by it myself because my take before we drafted him is he's likely a bust, I wasn't in love. I wouldn't have a longish lets see how it works mindset with him. I got no idea what their take is but it doesn't sound crazy that they quickly landed on a take. 26 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Third: If Allen was a guy he believes in so strongly, why did he bench him last year in Carolina? I don't think Rivera expects a signficant difference in talent with Allen taking over. I take him at face value when he says he wants a guy who knows the system at QB, so the team can try to push for a playoff run. That means he's doing a complete 180 on his 10-month plan, and he's sacrificing the long-term success of this franchise, to "win now" for a QB in Allen he knows is not the future. I think his comments about Allen already indicates he doesn't feel so strongly in Allen. I get the impression is they have a strong take about Haskins. 28 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: There is a huge difference between leaning on someone for an opinion on a player, and having someone above you or beside you who is focused on the long-term view while you are mired in short-term thinking during the war of a season. Kyle Smith does not have the luxury of focusing on the long-term, because his long-term employment and official position are still completely up in the air. As I said, Rivera does not have that all-important check from a GM who is constantly thinking about this franchise's competitive positioning 3, 5, 7 years down the road. Relating to Haskins for this point to have legs it would based on the premise that Haskins is likely going to be the dude if you give him time. I don't think they believe that. If the point was Haskins is going to be really good with time but gosh we need to win now so lets put that on hold -- then your point would be on the money. But I am not getting that impression, not even a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, megared said: You're basically saying he can't be 23, can't be himself, and everything that comes of it is his fault by not completely altering everything he does, to please some vague criticism that points to perceptions and not observable events. But the fact of the matter is that even if he did those things, it'd never be to your liking, because you don't like the guy. And that's fine. Don't put that on his age. Being 23 has nothing to do with anything that's going on with him. What's most disappointing is he got a mulligan and a fresh start and (allegedly) effed it up for things completely within his control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, justice98 said: Don't put that on his age. Being 23 has nothing to do with anything that's going on with him. The entire argument was that he didn't have the luxury of acting 23 because he's rich, and a 1st rounder. And my argument was that it isn't a realistic expectation to have regardless of profession/wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 ...we're gonna see Alex Smith on a bad leg play at that awful Giants Metlife turf the following week aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 38 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: . Third: If Allen was a guy he believes in so strongly, why did he bench him last year in Carolina? I don't think Rivera expects a signficant difference in talent with Allen taking over. I take him at face value when he says he wants a guy who knows the system at QB, so the team can try to push for a playoff run. That means he's doing a complete 180 on his 10-month plan, and he's sacrificing the long-term success of this franchise, to "win now" for a QB in Allen he knows is not the future. As I recall, it wasn't Rivera that benched him. Rivera was fired by then. It was the interim coach, Perry Fewell, that benched him. 1 minute ago, Warhead36 said: ...we're gonna see Alex Smith on a bad leg play at that awful Giants Metlife turf the following week aren't we? We're already probably the most disliked team in the league, wait until we put Alex Smith back on the field and he gets maimed in a WFT uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Now that's some pressure. Hopefully Allen can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: But what if they weren't enamored at all with Haskins? What if they studied him and were leaning that he's not that guy. Then they should have signed Cam this offseason. Especially since Rivera knew there was a chance he'd blow up his long-term strategy anyway to chase short term division-winning "glory". 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I think his comments about Allen already indicates he doesn't feel so strongly in Allen. I get the impression is they have a strong take about Haskins. So you're giving up on a raw, long-term project who could still wind up proving you wrong in the latter portion of the season for a more seasoned and polished guy you don't even believe in long-term. Brilliant strategy by them. 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Relating to Haskins for this point to have legs it would based on the premise that Haskins is likely going to be the dude if you give him time. I don't think they believe that. If the point was Haskins is going to be really good with time but gosh we need to win now so lets put that on hold -- then your point would be on the money. But I am not getting that impression, not even a little. It does not need to be based on that premise. It could easily be based on the premise that no one knows what Haskins will be yet, but it makes a lot more sense to use your evaluation season on a former 1st round pick who was very raw coming out and needs as many in-game reps as he can get, than it does to use your evaluation year on an 3-year college UDFA who has been benched for nobodies at every level of his career and who was a turnover machine last year. And even worse is changing your mind about having an evaluation season a quarter of the way through the season, for all the reasons I've already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Allen isn’t getting ditched after one game. Rivera is just keeping these guys on their toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, justice98 said: As I recall, it wasn't Rivera that benched him. Rivera was fired by then. It was the interim coach, Perry Fewell, that benched him. We're already probably the most disliked team in the league, wait until we put Alex Smith back on the field and he gets maimed in a WFT uniform. Alex is an adult, he can always retire. No one is forcing home to play. 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, heyholetsgogrant said: Alex is an adult, he can always retire. No one is forcing home to play. 🤷♂️ People aren't rational. You know doggone well none of that will come into play if something happens. This franchise will be excoriated. I don't particularly care about that, I'm just saying it'll happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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