FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[RawRebel]

12 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I don't think their secondary is better.  I'd call it a push.

 

And I think their OL has become overrated after the drafting of Thomas.  They're terrible at C and Will Hernandez hasn't been the player everyone thought he'd be.  Also, it's interesting so many people are taking it as a given that Nate Solder will succeed at RT.  He played poorly at LT and it's a tough transition to the other side when you've been playing LT your whole career.  And if they move Thomas to RT instead, they'll still be below average at LT.

 

IMO, they still have two glaring holes on their OL (RT and C) just like we do, albeit ours are at LT and LG.

 

Here's how I'd break down the position group advantage between the two teams.

 

QB > Redskins (based on PFF and my eye test)

RB > Giants (obviously, though we'll have better depth if Guice can stay healthy)

WR > Push (we have the best overall player but they have better depth)

TE > Giants (obviously)

OL > Push (see above)

 

DL > Redskins (the interior may be a push, but our EDGE rushers are far superior)

Off-ball LB > Redskins (we have better depth and more promising starters)

CB > Redskins (Darby had a down year last year but I think he bounces back, and I think Fuller, Moreau and Moreland round out a stronger rotation of 4 than they have)

S > Giants (though so much of this hinges on whether Sean Davis can duplicate his 2018 success at FS)

 

Head Coach > Redskins (obviously)

OC > Giants (Garrett is a good OC.  Better there than at HC.  Jury is still out on Turner)

DC > Redskins (obviously)

We have proven HC that had taken his team to Superbowl and they do not. We get the nod for better head coach. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

15 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Going off what @Skinsinparadise posted about Cooley, the Giants roster is only better than ours because they've spent more recently in free agency and brought in players like Zeitler, Tate, Martinez, and Bradberry. We've been drafting better than them and our roster will peak much higher. 

 

I think Cooley takes it a bit far.  I don't think the Giants are a playoff team.  I do think we've drafted very well.  Sadly, so have the Giants though IMO.  Though I'd give us a slight nod on that front  If they are better than us though overall as a team I don't think it's by much.    I think Gettleman gets a bum rap because like Bruce-Cerrato he said buffoonish things.  But the things he was criticized most for in NY and in Carolina haven't really turned out that bad -- letting Norman going, trading Beckham for two first rounders plus, not signing L. Collins for a big contract, drafting D. Jones. 

 

My main concern between the two teams is the gap with O line.  I do agree with a scout who once quoted in an article that aside from QB, the O line is often the X factor position in whether a team is good or not.   I often agree with @HTTRDynasty but disagree with him that if the O line by the Giants is better than the Redskins, it's just by a push.   To me they are a clear peg better at that spot.  Geron Christian IMO is likely just a guy.  At LG, I think we likely just have a guy.    I do like S. Charles but considering his past, he's a wild card, so will see.  If the O line is surprisingly decent I would guess it would be because of Charles.

 

The Giants O line to me is good with the potential to be very good.  Thomas I think is a stud, All Pro potential.  Zeitler is a stud.  Hernandez hasn't fulfilled his potential but he IMO is still decent and might come into his own.  He's a mauler.  They also drafted Peart in the third who has mammouth arms and can play RT.  I like Lemieux who they took and he maybe could solve their one weak spot at center.  I think Solder isn't a bad player, he's at least IMO Morgan Moses caliber and if you move him to RT that I think will be his best position.    

 

They IMO have a lot of young potential on the O line and distinctly more so than what we got.  But this isn't me crying about that.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  O line IMO is the focus next off-season.  I disagree with Cooley that the Giants are a playoff team but I do agree that Gettleman has quiety done a nice rebuild job with that team.  I think they are just a little ahead of us on that front.  But I think we surpass them in 2021. 

 

19 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Haskins being tied to Rivera is the best thing that could have happened for his career. He's getting me excited. Not because I think he's great all of a sudden, but because I know he has all the tools and those types need the best environment to have the best chance at succeeding (really that applies to all QB's, but especially raw toolsy types without much experience). And I believe Rivera will not only create that environment, but that he also has a personality and leadership style that will really click with a young QB who wants to be great. 

 

I agree.  And I admit many of the narratives from last season made me doubt that Haskins did have a burning desire to be great.  But this off season, he seems like a new dude on that front.  And having a coach like Rivera is likely part of that.   It doesn't take a rocket scientist to piece together (including from yesterday's Zoom meeting) that Rivera told Haskins what he heard about his preparation last season and said that has to change or something like that.  Doug strongly hinted at the same this off season.  Ditto Scott Turner.  Haskins clearly took all that to heart because he seems to be on fire this off season as to preparation.  I forgot which reporter said it but one said it feels like a total metamorphosis from last year, right down to losing weight and getting in top shape.   I've never been more optimistic about Haskins than I am now.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree.  And I admit many of the narratives from last season made me doubt that Haskins did have a burning desire to be great.  But this off season, he seems like a new dude on that front.  And having a coach like Rivera is likely part of that.   It doesn't take a rocket scientist to piece together (including from yesterday's Zoom meeting) that Rivera told Haskins what he heard about his preparation last season and said that has to change or something like that.  Doug strongly hinted at the same this off season.  Ditto Scott Turner.  Haskins clearly took all that to heart because he seems to be on fire this off season as to preparation.  I forgot which reporter said it but one said it feels like a total metamorphosis from last year, right down to losing weight and getting in top shape.   I've never been more optimistic about Haskins than I am now.

 

One thing I'm curious about is how much impact having a stunted offseason/camp due to COVID-19 will have on Haskins and his development from year 1 to year 2 as well as how much much patience the coaching staff (and the fans) will have with his progress this season given that, as well as coming into a brand new system.

 

Obviously in general Haskins is in a much better place right now compared to last year as far as the upgrades in FO and coaching staff. But I'm a bit worried that he could also be put into a really bad position for a 2nd year QB with limited starting experience: brand new system, no minicamps, etc to practice it, a mediocre at best OL, only one proven offensive weapon, and a really fickle fanbase. 

 

Will people be calling for his head if he struggles at first? 

[Conn]

I think people are so excited to finally rebuild through young players and just worry about gaining competitiveness and respectability back under Rivera that he'll have a pretty long leash with fans. If he's abysmal it's just a higher draft pick to replace him, and most people want to definitively see what he's got over at least a full season. 

 

I mean I don't think this fanbase is full of knobs who think we could make the playoffs if only we let Kyle Allen play lol...so this year will be a lesson in patience and looking for small improvements week over week in Haskins. Even last year he showed that ability. Historically we aren't overly patient with QBs, but this is a situation where I expect the relief of being in this new era will buy Haskins some leeway. 

 

Don't get me wrong, we are absolutely going to break down every muscle twitch and sideline shot like our future depends on it, because in a way it does. But people know he's a project and believe in Rivera--they'll know that fully playing it out and learning exactly what we have in Haskins is the most beneficial thing that can happen this season, whether he's good or bad it's important information to have.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

One thing I'm curious about is how much impact having a stunted offseason/camp due to COVID-19 will have on Haskins and his development from year 1 to year 2 as well as how much much patience the coaching staff (and the fans) will have with his progress this season given that, as well as coming into a brand new system.

 

Obviously in general Haskins is in a much better place right now compared to last year as far as the upgrades in FO and coaching staff. But I'm a bit worried that he could also be put into a really bad position for a 2nd year QB with limited starting experience: brand new system, no minicamps, etc to practice it, a mediocre at best OL, only one proven offensive weapon, and a really fickle fanbase. 

 

Will people be calling for his head if he struggles at first? 

 

Don't know.  Personally, I am just looking for progress as the season moves forward.  He's been dealt a bad hand as to the combination of learning a new system while not being able to practice running it.  And as i mentioned i am not convinced his protection will be hot.   So I don't think the context is hot for him.  But if he keeps working hard and makes strides, that's enough for me.  

[Vanguard]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know.  Personally, I am just looking for progress as the season moves forward.  He's been dealt a bad hand as to the combination of learning a new system while not being able to practice running it.  And as i mentioned i am not convinced his protection will be hot.   So I don't think the context is hot for him.  But if he keeps working hard and makes strides, that's enough for me.  

I like Turner, we’ll see how it goes.  But that was my problem with firing O'Connell.  I didn’t want to make any excuses for Dwayne.  I wanted to see him sink or float (hopefully float) so we could be certain he is our guy.  I believe he can do it, always have, but I wanted to have that reassurance.  If he couldn’t right the ship in his second year under O’Connell........maybe reduce his role.

[Skinsinparadise]

McLaurin

 

 

[JSSkinz]

He's definitely looking trim, he was carrying some fat around the waist last year, not anymore.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I wonder where we'd be.  McLaurin, Bryce Love...

 

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/06/11/dwayne-haskins-slimmed-down-with-renewed-focus-promises-be-better-second-year/

 

Almost from the moment Ron Rivera was named the Washington Redskins’ head coach this past winter, he has challenged Dwayne Haskins. The coach wants the quarterback to prove he can be the team’s leader. Rivera seemed to push again Wednesday, when he said during a video news conference there would be “one heck of a battle” between Haskins and Kyle Allen in training camp for the starting quarterback job.

 

Rivera has mentioned this competition many times even though the job almost certainly belongs to Haskins.

The quarterback struggled at times during his rookie season, from trying to grasp Washington’s complex offense to sensing former coach Jay Gruden had reservations about drafting him to dealing with a coaching change when Gruden was fired after five games. Even his first win was marred by maturity questions after he took a selfie with a fan that kept him from the game’s final kneeldown. But he has seemed to understand Rivera’s demands. The quarterback sat on a couch in his home Wednesday afternoon, wearing a sleeveless T-shirt that showed off his leaner body, and said in his own video news conference he has been working to prove he can be the leader Rivera wants.

 

He said he has been pushing not just in his private workouts with other players during the novel coronavirus shutdown but off the field as well. He said he knows there are perceptions that, even as he enters his second NFL season, he needs to prove something beyond just an ability to throw.

“I won’t necessarily say it’s just about football. It’s with everything in life,” Haskins said. “I just wanted to be a man about my business, and that’s on and off the field. Not that I wasn’t prior, too, but now turning 23, still being young and growing, whenever there were questions about immaturity or lack of whatever it was, I was going to change that whether it was me or not — just for myself because I needed to do that for me. I applied pressure with everything I did this offseason with my body and how I studied, and it’s making a big difference.”

 

 

Whenever people around the team talk about Haskins this offseason, they mention the amount of time he has spent throwing, lifting weights, running and learning new coordinator Scott Turner’s offense. Pressed on this during Wednesday’s video call, Haskins said, “I just cut off a lot of toxic stuff in my life,” without going into detail about what the toxic things were.

He said he is 218 pounds, which is almost 20 pounds lighter than when he came to the Redskins last spring and 10 pounds less than when he began training this past winter.

“I want to be the best player I can be for my team, and that was me working it, and it just fell off,” he said of the weight loss, adding that he didn’t intend to lose that much. “I’ll be more of a dynamic football player this year, and I’m looking forward to making some plays.”

[Koolblue13]

On 6/11/2020 at 11:41 AM, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

 

I mean I don't think this fanbase is full of knobs who think we could make the playoffs if only we let Kyle Allen play lol..

I so wish I wasn't so freaking busy in life or I would absolutely go make that comparison thread and watch it fester for another year, without taking one step inside again after posting the OP.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[D’Pablo]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wonder where we'd be.  McLaurin, Bryce Love...

 

I guess these teams are all Trung Canidates for the Superbowl.

[Anselmheifer]

9 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

I guess these teams are all Trung Canidates for the Superbowl.

I don’t think anyone would be surprised if the chiefs or Texans went to the SB. 
 

The broncos have awesome weapons and if Lock is any good could be very good on offense.

 

The redskins need to continue to upgrade their team speed, but we should be better in that regard than we were the past few years. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[D’Pablo]

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

That was a better interview than most fully grown professional QBs are capable of providing. Haskins is special. He’s much much smarter than he’s been given credit.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[KDawg]

On 6/10/2020 at 7:26 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Cooley this morning, he's not that high on Daniel Jones but is high on the Giants roster, thinks their O line now is really good, talented roster, he thinks they have done a sneaky good rebuild in recent years and end up a surprise playoff team.   He doesn't think the Redskins are as good and thinks we got the worst roster in the East.   I hope he's wrong.   Will see. 

 

The odd thing about Sprinkle was the idea about him is that he'd be a good blocker so even if he isn't a hot weapon the dude should be able to block.  But IMO (and judging by PFF grades) he's at best pedestrian as a blocker. 

 

Next draft I think O line and TE are obvious targets.  I don't think we have a ton of holes.  But I think those positions might set us back this season.  And to me, that's fine, its a stacked draft again.  49ers had multiple drafts with high picks in almost succession.  Now look at them.  I think that could be us but not in 2020 but 2021. 

 

And linebacker and corner. And free safety. And maybe OL. 

[Vanguard]

Don’t think it’s been posted.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 6/13/2020 at 5:44 PM, KDawg said:

 

And linebacker and corner. And free safety. And maybe OL. 

 

Talking purely offense.  CB definitely.  I think MLB is OK but not sure if Holcomb is a natural S-OLB.  We don't have a game wrecking type MLB.  To me it's so so.  FS I think ditto, so so.  But I think its tough to find a team that is stacked everywhere.  Usually even the best teams have a weakness or two.  But tough to find really good teams that are weak at OL. 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But tough to find really good teams that are weak at OL. 

 

Secondary too.  Might be even harder to cope with a bad secondary than bad OL.  Great playmakers and quarterbacking can hide some sins on your OL for a while.  But secondary weak links can be back breaking.

[HTTRDynasty]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Talking purely offense.  CB definitely.  I think MLB is OK but not sure if Holcomb is a natural S-OLB.  We don't have a game wrecking type MLB.  To me it's so so.  FS I think ditto, so so.  But I think its tough to find a team that is stacked everywhere.  Usually even the best teams have a weakness or two.  But tough to find really good teams that are weak at OL. 

 

What's interesting is that PFF ranked us as the 13th best OL for 2019, yet most people seem to think our OL will be awful this year.  Do the subtractions of Flowers (who was thought of as a joke before last season) and Penn (who we could re-sign if we really thought it was necessary) take our OL from 13th to weak?

 

We do have question marks at LT and LG, but we had those same questions last year before the season started.  I'm not taking it as a given that we'll be "weak" at OL.

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

What's interesting is that PFF ranked us as the 13th best OL for 2019, yet most people seem to think our OL will be awful this year.  Do the subtractions of Flowers (who was thought of as a joke before last season) and Penn (who we could re-sign if we really thought it was necessary) take our OL from 13th to weak?

 

We do have question marks at LT and LG, but we had those same questions last year before the season started.  I'm not taking it as a given that we'll be "weak" at OL.

It’s hard to know, but running a new offense with a young QB and lots of young everything on the Offense really will make any issues we have worse probably. 
 

but I didn’t know we were rated that high. It’s crazy when you think about how many of our QBs were injured last season. That’s probably why most folks think they are bad. 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

What's interesting is that PFF ranked us as the 13th best OL for 2019, yet most people seem to think our OL will be awful this year.  Do the subtractions of Flowers (who was thought of as a joke before last season) and Penn (who we could re-sign if we really thought it was necessary) take our OL from 13th to weak?

 

We do have question marks at LT and LG, but we had those same questions last year before the season started.  I'm not taking it as a given that we'll be "weak" at OL.

 

I think we will be fine at LG. But I assume that PFF ranking was pre season and assumed Williams would start at LT. We have a below average starter at RT and thin air at LT right now with the competition between a 3rd round rookie, a young player who has looked awful in the starts he has had and a journeyman. OT is a big concern to me.