FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Rivers did not look good by the end of last year. 23 TD’s 20 ints...I would not like that move. He looked pretty washed. Give me  DH + CY...

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Rivers did not look good by the end of last year. 23 TD’s 20 ints...I would not like that move. He looked pretty washed. Give me  DH + CY...

is CY (Chase Young)?  Who is your #2 QB because the only QB on our roster right now is DH.

[PartyPosse]

5 hours ago, Thirtyfive2seven said:

I just watched some Instagram post from Haskins and all I could was rgiii in all the bad ways.  Posting a workout, dancing around, idk. I want him to be successful because of the impact of taking a bust but I just don’t see it. 

If that’s what you got from it then you were already set in your opinion.

 

Its not even March.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@RWJ Yes that’s Chase Young. For our back up there are a lot of lower cost options:

Kennum

Glennon

Bortles

Gabbert

Chase Daniel

Matt Moore 

Trevor Siemian
 

in no particular order..A guy who can win a game or two in a pinch..

I think Bridgewater and Mariota are at another level with $ and expectations. But we’ll see how the dominos fall.

 

 

[Est.1974]

I would not be adverse to Rivers but on balance I’m not convinced it’s a good move.

 

I mean, if we intend on bringing in a very high priced FA, we may as well offer Brady a 2 year 65mil deal and let Haskins develop behind the best.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I would not be adverse to Rivers but on balance I’m not convinced it’s a good move.

 

I mean, if we intend on bringing in a very high priced FA, we may as well offer Brady a 2 year 65mil deal and let Haskins develop behind the best.

If you bring in a high price vet for a few years you might as well trade Haskins.

 

Unfortunately, I could see this happening....

 

Its dont believe its a reflection on Dwayne really.

 

I've always gotten the vibe that Rivera would prefer a veteran QB in general.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

@KDawg

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but McShay seems to have done a complete walk-back/reversal on his earlier position that he'd draft Tua if he were Washington.  Says it at 56 seconds.

 

Quote

 

 

I listen to his/Kiper's podcasts.  I know McShay in particular is no fan of Haskins at least not after last season and if anything he's an over the top critic of him among other things he called last season a borderline disaster for Haskins.    He does love Chase Young, he's along with the crowd who has said that he will be better than Nick Bosa.  He loves Tua, thinks he's distinctly better than Haskins but has injury concerns.  He's talked in the Kiper/McShay podcasts that Haskins is Dan's guy so doubts they move away from him. 

 

I do believe that Tua is on the table, seems plausible to me.  I don't think they draft him but I do think they'd consider.  I don't buy the Philip Rivers bit.  Aren't they paying over 20 million in dead money to Alex?  So they are going to add $25 mill or whatever on top of that?  Sounds too crazy to me.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Rivers did not look good by the end of last year. 23 TD’s 20 ints...I would not like that move. He looked pretty washed. Give me  DH + CY...

 

Yeah, count me out on the Rivers idea.  And I actually don't believe that one.   They right now are at 25 million on the cap give or take with Haskins-Alex combined.  So they adding another 25 million or so?  We'd be paying 50 million plus probably for QB play.  That would be absurd. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

We'll never know.

 

But truthfully, this team shouldn't have drafted Dwayne Haskins. And I'm not saying that as someone that is a "hater".

 

Given reports, we know our football people didn't think of him as a top end guy. They had him as a 2nd/3rd. Our football people wanted Sweat. Snyder wanted Haskins. We drafted Haskins at 15, then traded back into the first using our second rounder to get the guy the football guys wanted.

 

Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that drafting him was bad or not. I have no idea. I really don't. But a good franchise who had those guys ranked that way doesn't wind up with Dwayne Haskins in the first round.

 

Now, the real point of that back information:

 

Haskins then isn't put in a position where the coach has literally no reason to want to play/develop him. Gruden didn't want him - of course not. Why would you want a project QB when you need to save your job right now? A different situation may net him in a better position, but that is a Bruce Allen/Dan Snyder failing. 

 

The other issue: Haskins didn't excel as a backup. He only became "ready" as he was named the starter. He's not meticulous in film study. Mahomes, by all accounts, is. And was. 

 

You can't really compare the two. 

 

And this team has cannibalized Haskins due to the former staff. He was put in an extremely unfair position. And it has continued to be exactly that. Unfair. 

 

I was in total agreement with every point you made here. Until I got to the last paragraph.   There is nothing unfair at all about expecting your first round QB to play like a first round QB. To date he has not and as I said earlier I'm not convinced anything Gruden did was unfair. We have now seen 2 coaches (Callahan) say the same thing, he was simply not ready. We now have a third that apparently is questioning the player as well, then we have the front office who were not on board with him at 15. The fact that the owner made this pick, overruling his own personnel people, is a huge red flag because Dan Snyder is rarely right when it comes to personnel. 

 

This is professional sports. The job of the player is to get yourself ready and if you are not the team will look elsewhere. I don't see anything unfair about that at all.  If there are so many hints of his work ethic well I'm thinking where there's smoke there could very well be fire.  Gruden did not play him or give him starting reps because he had not earned them. I'm not convinced that means he was not trying to develop Haskins.  

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I was in total agreement with every point you made here. Until I got to the last paragraph.   There is nothing unfair at all about expecting your first round QB to play like a first round QB. To date he has not and as I said earlier I'm not convinced anything Gruden did was unfair. We have now seen 2 coaches (Callahan) say the same thing, he was simply not ready. We now have a third that apparently is questioning the player as well, then we have the front office who were not on board with him at 15. The fact that the owner made this pick, overruling his own personnel people, is a huge red flag because Dan Snyder is rarely right when it comes to personnel. 

 

This is professional sports. The job of the player is to get yourself ready and if you are not the team will look elsewhere. I don't see anything unfair about that at all.  If there are so many hints of his work ethic well I'm thinking where there's smoke there could very well be fire.  Gruden did not play him or give him starting reps because he had not earned them. I'm not convinced that means he was not trying to develop Haskins.  

Our football people didn’t view him as a first round talent. That’s what’s unfair. The criticism is not. 
 

And at no point did I say I believed Gruden did anything unfairly.

 

I reiterate: the only unfair thing was that the Allen/Snyder combo overruled the football people to draft a QB to a team with a lame duck coach who needed to win now.

 

The rest is on Haskins.

 

If you have read my stuff I’ve been criticized over and over for how tough I am on him. I’m not sold on him as a QB. At all.

 

My thoughts here reflect that I believe this entire thing, including the lack of a second rounder, is the doing of Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder. Haskins shouldn’t be here if the football people didn’t want him.

[carex]

the problem was why should the lame duck coach get to make decisions for the years after he's gone?  I think finishing the year with Sanchez and Johnson was a thing that gave Gruden a bit of a reprieve.  Snyder just wasn't willing to pull the trigger on firing at the end of the season the way things devolved.

 

Haskins was viewed as a first round talent last year, even if not all of us wanted him.

 

And the question of the QB right now is muddled by the fact we don't actually have anyone besides Haskins who can play at the moment.  We need to get other QBs, so the question is what role they should play

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Our football people didn’t view him as a first round talent. That’s what’s unfair. The criticism is not. 
 

And at no point did I say I believed Gruden did anything unfairly.

 

I reiterate: the only unfair thing was that the Allen/Snyder combo overruled the football people to draft a QB to a team with a lame duck coach who needed to win now.

 

The rest is on Haskins.

 

If you have read my stuff I’ve been criticized over and over for how tough I am on him. I’m not sold on him as a QB. At all.

 

My thoughts here reflect that I believe this entire thing, including the lack of a second rounder, is the doing of Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder. Haskins shouldn’t be here if the football people didn’t want him.

 

Thanks for the clarification, sorry I got it wrong.  I have just heard so many people complain that how Gruden treated Haskins was unfair and I will never agree with that.  

I honestly don't know which way to go.  As you know I'm pretty convinced the QB position is much more important than any other position by a large measure.  And I'm not sold on Haskins, not one bit. But I'm not sold on Tua either and they simply have to find out what they have in Haskins. Passing on a player like Chase Young is hard for a fan to accept, that's for sure.  

[Riggo#44]

33 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 Our football people didn’t view him as a first round talent

 

I know Gruden didn't want him, obviously, but where did you read they didn't have a 1st round grade on him?

[Darrell Green Fan]

11 minutes ago, carex said:

And the question of the QB right now is muddled by the fact we don't actually have anyone besides Haskins who can play at the moment.  We need to get other QBs, so the question is what role they should play

 

I think it's clear that any QB off the waiver wire, with the exception of Bridgewater, will be in the role of backup. Any late round QB will be in the role of developmental, if they draft Tua well then everything is in play. I find it hard to believe they will keep both young QBs and let them battle it out, I see Haskins pulling a Jay Cutler in Denver if that happens.  

[ggarriso]

This villianization of Gruden is unfair and preposterous.  The only facts known are that  

 

--he was overruled by ownership and the organization made the pick against his wishes (almost undoubtedly)

--his job was on the line and he needed to win 

--he felt that colt and/or case gave him a better shot at winning - at the time

 

What there is zero evidence of:

 

--Gruden had some type of weird "personal" grudge against DH (even in light of DH's multiple public "gaffes") (aka Gruden did not like him personally)

--Gruden "wanted" DH to fail or to "ruin" him

--Gruden is bad with QBs and his "system" caused DH to fail 

--Gruden is back channeling with media now to try to make DH look bad (this one is beyond idiotic, DH dug his own hole with his attitude and performance)

 

Now my personal opinion is that Gruden was not the right guy for the job, as reflected by the results, but I do not buy into this evil Gruden is the cause of all DH issues narrative

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, ggarriso said:

This villianization of Gruden is unfair and preposterous.  The only facts known are that  

 

--he was overruled by ownership and the organization made the pick against his wishes (almost undoubtedly)

--his job was on the line and he needed to win 

--he felt that colt and/or case gave him a better shot at winning - at the time

 

What there is zero evidence of:

 

--Gruden had some type of weird "personal" grudge against DH (even in light of DH's multiple public "gaffes") (aka Gruden did not like him personally)

--Gruden "wanted" DH to fail or to "ruin" him

--Gruden is bad with QBs and his "system" caused DH to fail 

--Gruden is back channeling with media now to try to make DH look bad (this one is beyond idiotic, DH dug his own hole with his attitude and performance)

 

Now my personal opinion is that Gruden was not the right guy for the job, as reflected by the results, but I do not buy into this evil Gruden is the cause of all DH issues narrative

 

 

My thoughts exactly, well said.  I even hear callers on the radio continuing with the "man of color is still being kept down" opinion.   That is ridiculous.  

[Riggo#44]

10 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

This villianization of Gruden is unfair and preposterous.  The only facts known are that  

We all know who the real villian was. That staff last year was a disjointed mess--Callahan was Bruce's buddy, and had an entirely different view of the offense than Gruden, neither were on the same page. 

 

The defensive staff was wholly inept--no one knew what they were doing, miscommunication every where, and we have three incredibly athletic DL in Allen, Payne, and Sweat, and we never run stunts...

 

I'm giving many, many players a pass on last year, especially the young ones.

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

22 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

This villianization of Gruden is unfair and preposterous.  The only facts known are that  

 

--he was overruled by ownership and the organization made the pick against his wishes (almost undoubtedly)

--his job was on the line and he needed to win 

--he felt that colt and/or case gave him a better shot at winning - at the time

 

What there is zero evidence of:

 

--Gruden had some type of weird "personal" grudge against DH (even in light of DH's multiple public "gaffes") (aka Gruden did not like him personally)

--Gruden "wanted" DH to fail or to "ruin" him

--Gruden is bad with QBs and his "system" caused DH to fail 

--Gruden is back channeling with media now to try to make DH look bad (this one is beyond idiotic, DH dug his own hole with his attitude and performance)

 

Now my personal opinion is that Gruden was not the right guy for the job, as reflected by the results, but I do not buy into this evil Gruden is the cause of all DH issues narrative

 

Gruden instilled NO discipline and garnered NO respect from the players (ie) Playing hard. That is why he failed and all that had an impact on Haskins.

[Llevron]

19 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

My thoughts exactly, well said.  I even hear callers on the radio continuing with the "man of color is still being kept down" opinion.   That is ridiculous.  

 

People say that because the leaks are questioning his intelligence. Basically saying he can’t read. Rather you agree with it or not, you have to be aware that Black men are and have been characterized as gifted in athletics but not so smart. That’s exactly what they are saying about Haskins despite how intelligent he comes off (per his teachers and everyone who has actually spoken with him). 

 

You may be annoyed by it. And it may be wrong. But it’s not close to ridiculous. It’s literally our history. You accepting that would honestly just make it easier for you to ignore it if that’s what you wanted. Cause then you don’t have to have conversations like this with the non athletic type like me 🙃

 

7 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Gruden instilled NO discipline and garnered NO respect from the players (ie) Playing hard. That is why he failed and all that had an impact on Haskins.

 

This is very true. I think his schemes were bad and he wouldn’t coach to his talent. And if he was in control of the coaching staff (big if tho) he chose all the wrong guys there too. But that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad guy either. Not that you are saying that. 

 

I honestly think he was he was just a bad coach, and DH was forced on him in a year he didn’t want him. The rest was going to happen regardless. 

[skinsmania123]

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

People say that because the leaks are questioning his intelligence. Basically saying he can’t read. Rather you agree with it or not, you have to be aware that Black men are and have been characterized as gifted in athletics but not so smart. That’s exactly what they are saying about Haskins despite how intelligent he comes off (per his teachers and everyone who has actually spoken with him). 

 

You may be annoyed by it. And it may be wrong. But it’s not close to ridiculous. It’s literally our history. You accepting that would honestly just make it easier for you to ignore it if that’s what you wanted. Cause then you don’t have to have conversations like this with the non athletic type like me 🙃

 

 

This is very true. I think his schemes were bad and he wouldn’t coach to his talent. And if he was in control of the coaching staff (big if tho) he chose all the wrong guys there too. But that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad guy either. Not that you are saying that. 

 

I honestly think he was he was just a bad coach, and DH was forced on him in a year he didn’t want him. The rest was going to happen regardless. 

Just being real here.  Tell me other black QB whose "intelligence" was questioned?   I mean we have to start somewhere.  No time like present time.  Obviously the present becomes part of history.  When you look at the number of starting black QB's in just 2019 alone,  it seems preposterous to me that you can levy an argument that the media or whoever you perceive, today are questioning the intelligence of black QB's. 

 

Enjoy this article, I sure as hell did:  https://theundefeated.com/features/welcome-to-the-year-of-the-black-quarterback/

 

I think the situation regarding Haskins has nothing to do with questioning his intelligence.  They were questioning other things. I thought he greatly improved, but I did question his maturity last year.   Ron Rivera is a person of color. He is known to be fair and well respected and loved by all his players.   If he is looking at other QB's then he may be questioning multiple things about Dwayne we are not privy to or aware of.   Rivera is also well known for stirring up competition and getting guys to work for it.  If DeWayne earns the nod from Rivera it is because he earned it. Bringing in a vet is something he should welcome.  Guys that know they have it don't care about competition. 

 

  I am not annoyed by your stance.  But I am questioning its validity based upon facts today. In today's league. 

 

 I agree about Gruden.  Period.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

46 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

People say that because the leaks are questioning his intelligence. Basically saying he can’t read. Rather you agree with it or not, you have to be aware that Black men are and have been characterized as gifted in athletics but not so smart. That’s exactly what they are saying about Haskins despite how intelligent he comes off (per his teachers and everyone who has actually spoken with him). 

 

You may be annoyed by it. And it may be wrong. But it’s not close to ridiculous. It’s literally our history. You accepting that would honestly just make it easier for you to ignore it if that’s what you wanted. Cause then you don’t have to have conversations like this with the non athletic type like me 🙃

 

 

This is very true. I think his schemes were bad and he wouldn’t coach to his talent. And if he was in control of the coaching staff (big if tho) he chose all the wrong guys there too. But that doesn’t necessarily make him a bad guy either. Not that you are saying that. 

 

I honestly think he was he was just a bad coach, and DH was forced on him in a year he didn’t want him. The rest was going to happen regardless. 

 

Oh I totally agree about how black athletes have been characterized.  But that is changing rapidly. There are so many starting African American QBs today it shows how the attitude has changed. 

 

Dyslexia should never be confused with a lack of intelligence, if people are making this mistake they are wrong.  The claim was he may have a condition that inhibits his ability to learn the playbook.    Others (many) have questioned his work ethic   I don't recall anyone saying that he was stupid.  But what I do hear is a lot of excuse making for the QBs inability to get on the field and his poor play early. And again racism was the claim and that's what I mean by ridiculous, that was an unfair accusation.  It was much more likely that a player with very limited experience was simply not ready, put that with a coach who knew he needed to win now and was not high on Dwayne on draft day and that appears to be the reason for his lack of development. I honestly believe this would have been the case regardless of the color of his skin, I think those who feel differently are looking for reasons that I do not believe are there.  It's always dangerous to scream racism every time something does not go right for an AA, it dilutes the power of the charge with it's actually applicable.  

[skinzplay]

People really shouldn't sleep on this team. No, it's not one or two players from a SB, but **** happens during the season - weird yellow stuff on the field at odd times, injuries to key players, etc - so you never know who can end up making a run, and do so seemingly against all odds. This team would have been infinitely better last year had we had a competent DC. And I think the offense could do some real damage with AP and the Backups (look for their new album in the Fall), and with what Zampese and Turner put together in an aggressive aerial attack. All of the receivers are going to have field days in that offense, and McLaurin is gonna be mesmerizing.

 

So what would people prefer: Haskins + Young or Bridgewater + Young + 2nd Rounder (in a trade with Tampa or Atlanta for Haskins)?

[KDawg]

We can throw all sorts of hypotheticals out there, but I assume Bridgewater wouldn’t be cheap. So, likely Haskins over him. Rookie deal. Project QB that could develop. Spend the cash assets elsewhere.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I've always gotten the vibe that Rivera would prefer a veteran QB in general.

yeah I can get that impression as well to be honest. He has specifically said he loves our young core, mentioned the DL, the WR group, get the feeling QB is an afterthought in that area for him. 

[HTTRDynasty]