2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, DWinzit said:

 

I am thrilled to read and discuss with competent posters like these TE posts. You are all open eyes to the blocking capabilities of the options. So many ignore or devalue this important yet boring aspect of the position! Guys like Asiasi and Hopkins deserve these accolades that years ago would not have received. I may have these 2 higher than you for that reason and downgraded others because quite frankly, they don't do it for what seems to be RR's plan.  Other guys I overvalue are Pinkney and Deguara to a lesser degree. 

 

I do not love Parkinson but find these posts fascinating and will review him more.

 

 

I used to like Pinkney, I noticed PFF grades him as pedestrian as a blocker, but I like the way he blocks and even brings some attitude doing it at times.  He has decent hands, too.  Decent YAC guy.   He was supposed to be one of the top guys this year after a big 2018 but his 2019 didn't match.   But the dude basically ran a 5.0 40 and had the worst 10 yd split at 1.71.  Of all the TE's I liked, he was the one TE whose combine numbers turned me off from them.  I don't need a TE with great speed but 5.0 takes that a bit too far for me, that's basically LT speed.

 

Deguara on the other hand had a really good combine, strength and speed wise.  I don't mind him as a late rounder.  His physique reminds me some of Cooley.   He is a decent blocker and has decent hands but don't love him on either front.    He's relatively small compared to some of the TE prospects I like -- short arms and small hands, too.  He looks more like a H-back than a pure TE.   

[DWinzit]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Deguara on the other hand had a really good combine, strength and speed wise.  I don't mind him as a late rounder.  His physique reminds me some of Cooley.   He is a decent blocker and has decent hands but don't love him on either front.    He's relatively small compared to some of the TE prospects I like -- short arms and small hands, too.  He looks more like a H-back than a pure TE.   

Yes you nailed it. I am a fan of an HB type if they are good blocking. It gives more offensive flexibility. I find Hopkins also falls into this category. Both are decent blockers yet do everything fairly well. Deguara is just lower ranked than Hopkins.  Both can hold up to some degree inline.  

[Anselmheifer]

8 hours ago, nonniey said:

Of course that would mean the College games won't be played either so the draft will me be a bit more risky.  Although the rules state all teams would move up 1 pick while Cincy would be rotated to the 32d pick we'd pick #1.

 

 

 

 

(Ok I made up that rule in the last sentence).

is this true? That we’d pick #1 if there is no season? If so, the way FA has gone, I’m going to start rooting for that right now. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

is this true? That we’d pick #1 if there is no season? If so, the way FA has gone, I’m going to start rooting for that right now. 

It’s true! All the way up to the fine print in the post

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes you nailed it. I am a fan of an HB type if they are good blocking. It gives more offensive flexibility. I find Hopkins also falls into this category. Both are decent blockers yet do everything fairly well. Deguara is just lower ranked than Hopkins.  Both can hold up to some degree inline.  

 

Yeah Deguara definitely fits the HB profile well.  I wouldn't mind him later in the draft.  Hopkins is bigger than Deguara, taller, a little heavier, longer arms, bigger hands but not by a lot.  Deguara is probably the better blocker.  Hopkins IMO is more explosive in that he's a bigger threat to stretch the field. 

 

Everything being equal, I prefer a TE with some size so they can hold up against the bigger defenders in the NFL versus college.  I prefer a dude who can block.   I worry about guys who are around 240 on that front and don't seem to have the right frame to add 10 pounds of muscle.  That would be my concern about Deguara versus lets say Hopkins.  It's part of my confusion about Hunter Bryant.  Hunter put on some weight for the combine, too much it seemed for his height and in turn looked slow at the combine.   Otherwise Hunter Bryant would also be in this grouping too, IMO.  

 

I do like Hopkins.  I like Deguara but to a lesser extent.  And as I keep saying I am confused about Hunter Bryant.  When Hunter played 10 pounds lighter he was a fairly dynamic receiver.  My question about him is he just an oversized receiver versus a pure TE in the NFL.  It's hard for me to dig Hunter because I don't see how he can be a do it all type TE in the league but he does have a lot of potential as a receiver. 

[KDawg]

51 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes you nailed it. I am a fan of an HB type if they are good blocking. It gives more offensive flexibility. I find Hopkins also falls into this category. Both are decent blockers yet do everything fairly well. Deguara is just lower ranked than Hopkins.  Both can hold up to some degree inline.  

 

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah Deguara definitely fits the HB profile well.  I wouldn't mind him later in the draft.  Hopkins is bigger than Deguara, taller, a little heavier, longer arms, bigger hands but not by a lot.  Deguara is probably the better blocker.  Hopkins IMO is more explosive in that he's a bigger threat to stretch the field. 

 

Everything being equal, I prefer a TE with some size so they can hold up against the bigger defenders in the NFL versus college.  I prefer a dude who can block.   I worry about guys who are around 240 on that front and don't seem to have the right frame to add 10 pounds of muscle.  That would be my concern about Deguara versus lets say Hopkins.  It's part of my confusion about Hunter Bryant.  Hunter put on some weight for the combine, too much it seemed for his height and in turn looked slow at the combine.   Otherwise Hunter Bryant would also be in this grouping too, IMO.  

 

I do like Hopkins.  I like Deguara but to a lesser extent.  And as I keep saying I am confused about Hunter Bryant.  When Hunter played 10 pounds lighter he was a fairly dynamic receiver.  My question about him is he just an oversized receiver versus a pure TE in the NFL.  It's hard for me to dig Hunter because I don't see how he can be a do it all type TE in the league but he does have a lot of potential as a receiver. 

 

I've been watching tight end "film" some more, and my rankings have been revised pre Senior Bowl. My thoughts on Asiasi remain the same as before, but I moved him up. There's something to be said for a guy that is pretty much going to be a solid career TE in the NFL. He may never be a 1 (he could be), but he'll always be a solid 2 option I think. 

 

Hopkins, Harrison Bryant and Deguara are all the same player. The first two are virtual mirrors, in my opinion. Obviously a few differences, but I'm not sure they will effect the career trajectories. Deguara is a slightly less talented/physical prototype version of them. 

[KDawg]

What does everyone see in Shane Lemiuex? I'm watching he, Throckmorton and Hanson right now against Auburn, and he seems the worst of the bunch. Struggling getting to second level and positioning on defenders. Hanson actually seems to hold up better against Brown. Granted I'm early in my studies... But he hasn't impressed. So, I'm sure I'm missing some important piece of information. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Trades Mock using Matt Miller's updated Big Board ... or as I refer to it after it was done ... "the stud and 7 potential eventual starters" mock

*Trent to NYJ for 3.4 and 4.14

*1.2 to MIA for 1.5, 1.18. 2.7

 

1.5: Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

1.18: Josh Jones, OT Houston

2.7: Laviska Shenault, WR Colorado

3.2: Bryce Hall, CB UVA

3.4: Adam Trautman, TE Dayton

4.2: Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illionois

4.14: Collin Johnson, WR Texas

4.36: Kenny Willikes, Edge Michigan State

5.16: Dane Jackson, CB Pitt

[HigSkin]

I yi, yi, it'd be tempting....

 

https://riggosrag.com/2020/03/23/redskins-post-fa-2020-mock/3/

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I've been watching tight end "film" some more, and my rankings have been revised pre Senior Bowl. My thoughts on Asiasi remain the same as before, but I moved him up. There's something to be said for a guy that is pretty much going to be a solid career TE in the NFL. He may never be a 1 (he could be), but he'll always be a solid 2 option I think. 

 

Hopkins, Harrison Bryant and Deguara are all the same player. The first two are virtual mirrors, in my opinion. Obviously a few differences, but I'm not sure they will effect the career trajectories. Deguara is a slightly less talented/physical prototype version of them. 

 

Yeah as I said yesterday, I am sold that Asiasi will be a good player, he does everything well -- TE's like that are hard to find in the NFL.  I'd be happy if they took him.  Yeah Harrison, Hopkins, Deguara are similar I agree.  Similar style. Similar size. I'd add Hunter Bryant into that group too if he goes back to his former weight.  

 

I like Hopkins maybe a hair over Harrison (but the two are neck and neck for me) and then I'd go Deguara.  It wouldn't surprise me if all three end up good receiving TE's in the NFL, I just wonder about their blocking considering their size. Though all three, especially Deguara and Harrison are willing blockers.  Harrison Bryant has the most frame where he can put on 10 pounds or so.   Then it would be Hopkins IMO.   If they choose to do so.  

[RWJ]

Don't think a trade happens at #2 unless Young is taken #1 overall by the Browns.  To me it's so obvious that the Browns need a QB at the #1 overall pick with Burrow and that Young becomes our pick at #2 that all this trade stuff will wash away come draft day soon after the draft starts.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Don't think a trade happens at #2 unless Young is taken #1 overall by the Browns.  To me it's so obvious that the Browns need a QB at the #1 overall pick with Burrow and that Young becomes our pick at #2 that all this trade stuff will wash away come draft day soon after the draft starts.

Like I said before, the most realistic trade is Detroit and Cincy (not the Browns  ).

 

It allows the Bengals to still get a QB they love and the Lions to get Young.

 

I still don’t think it happens.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

31 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

I yi, yi, it'd be tempting....

 

https://riggosrag.com/2020/03/23/redskins-post-fa-2020-mock/3/

 

 

So personally, while I like Justin Jefferson ... but it would be tough to sit there at 18 with Jeudy sliding down the Board ... while I doubt the Broncos would trade out of taking him at 15, I would be targeting the Bucs to trade up fro 18 to 14 to land Jeudy.

Wirfs + Jeudy would make the trade-down with Miami worth it for me. But, I don't understand *only* getting 5/18/39 by giving up our 4th back to the Dolphins. To me, any trade-down that has us passing on Chase has to be, at a minimum, 5/18/39 ... and thats just the start of the conversation. I would probably not accept anything that doesn't also include a 2021 1st round pick ... or at least both of the Dolphins #2s

[Skinsinparadise]

This is interesting, if I had to pick a film geek type I respect who really dug Haskins besides @stevemcqueen1 it would be Bullock.  And Bullock has a similar concern that @stevemcqueen1 has about the acquisition of Allen and what it means -- though if I recall with @stevemcqueen1 its him thinking they are taking Tua.

 

Personally, I wasn't a big Haskins guy as the draft approached.  I did like a lot how he performed at the end of the season.  I do believe in the concerns about Haskins' intangibles considering they were coming from just about every direction and source.   I also believe that Haskins is taking it up on a peg on that front and is committed to taking his game to another level.   So their concerns are likely being fixed.  

 

I love Tua.  I personally think he's easily better than Haskins and he brings none of the intangible concerns that come with Haskins.   But my concerns run deeper than just his recovery from his current injury but his durability just in general.  @volsmet brings up a good point about Deshaun Watson among others having similar concerns before their draft and they've shined regardless (though Watson has gotten hurt)  So I waffle some on this especially because I love Tua as a player. 

 

It's still hard for me to see them taking Tua.  All the smoke right now is they are taking Chase Young.

 

 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Trades Mock using Matt Miller's updated Big Board ... or as I refer to it after it was done ... "the stud and 7 potential eventual starters" mock

*Trent to NYJ for 3.4 and 4.14

*1.2 to MIA for 1.5, 1.18. 2.7

 

1.5: Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

1.18: Josh Jones, OT Houston

2.7: Laviska Shenault, WR Colorado

3.2: Bryce Hall, CB UVA

3.4: Adam Trautman, TE Dayton

4.2: Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illionois

4.14: Collin Johnson, WR Texas

4.36: Kenny Willikes, Edge Michigan State

5.16: Dane Jackson, CB Pitt

I really like this draft...hits on all the needs in just one draft....wow. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

I really like this draft...hits on all the needs in just one draft....wow. 

 

There are a couple different routes I think I would have rather taken. the Jones + Shenault is "nice" but I feel like I'm still not maximizing the trade-down value of #2. I feel like I got a bunch of "potential good" players outside of Simmons.

[KDawg]

Did a lot of rewatching today so far. Both Utah safeties are now in my safety rankings you boobs. 
 

Moved some tight ends and tackles around. Gotta finish IOL, QB, CB and DT and I’m done.

 

No. I’m not doing kickers or punters.

[skinny21]

20 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

There are a couple different routes I think I would have rather taken. the Jones + Shenault is "nice" but I feel like I'm still not maximizing the trade-down value of #2. I feel like I got a bunch of "potential good" players outside of Simmons.

On TDN, using just the picks from your Miami trade, I came away with Isaiah Simmons, Andrew Thomas and Johnathon Taylor.  Arguably the best LB, OT and RB in the draft... yes please.  

 

[KDawg]

I still don't think we trade out of 2... but I think we need to think about it. 

 

If we did I would do something like this:

 

1.5 - Simmons - LB, Clemson

1.18 - K'Lavon Chaisson, EDGE, LSU (If he falls, if not look towards Jeudy/Henderson/Diggs)

2.7 - Lucas Niang, OT, TCU

3.2 - Kyle Dugger, LB/S, Lenoir-Rhyne

3.4 - Trautman/AO, TE, Dayton/Mizzou

4.2 - Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming

4.14 - Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB, App State

4.36 -  Darrynton Evans/Booger Jr./Antonio Gibson, RB, App State/Maryland/Memphis

5.16 - Trishton Jackson, WR, Syracuse

 

Reshapes LB completely... Wilson as MIKE, Simmons/Gaither at OLB, Dugger at FS

 

Jackson/the RB/Niang/the TE dramatically improve the offense. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

25 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

On TDN, using just the picks from your Miami trade, I came away with Isaiah Simmons, Andrew Thomas and Johnathon Taylor.  Arguably the best LB, OT and RB in the draft... yes please.  

 

 

I just ran one on TDN. Traded Trent to Jets for 3.68 ... trade 1.5 to Miami for 1.5, 1.18, 2.39 and 3.70

 

1.5: Tristan Wirfs, OT Iowa

1.18: Andrew Thomas, OT Georgia

2.7: Trevon Diggs, CB Alabama

3.2: Tee Higgins, WR Clemson

3.4: Adam Trautman, TE Dayton

3.6: Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illinois

4.2: Alex Highsmith, Edge Charlotte

4.36: Collin Johnson, WR Texas

 

Oh. my. dear. lord. Okay, this draft is a bit nuts. I would kill for this.

 

So at 18 there really wasn't a great BPA pick that fit there. Kristian Fulton, but idk ... deep CB class, Rivera has never drafted a CB in the 1st  (though that could certainly change). But here's my thinking. Wirfs played RT at Iowa and could undoubtedly play LT in the NFL. He has the same measurables and athleticism as Trent. He's a great pick at 5. But if Andrew Thomas is there at 18 ... I take him too. You can figure out later who plays LT and who plays RT. But holy crap, could you imagine those two bookends for the foreseeable future?

 

But the icing on the cake with this draft is how the 2nd - 4th play out. I essentially went needs within Top 5 players at each pick.

 

Diggs - future CB1

Higgins - wow, as a WR2? good night

Trautman - your future TE1

Chinn - Safety depth/long-term starter?

Highsmith - Raw, high upside Edge to take away some of the pain on passing on Chase at 2

Collin Johnson - maybe a bit too close to Tee Higgins ... but another big route-running specialist to bollster the young depth at WR.

 

The scary thing is this certainly seems possible to me. Maybe Thomas doesn't fall to 18, and Higgins likely goes in R2 ... but this would be a pipe dream draft.

 

If you want to argue it isn't realistic that Higgins and Trautman won't fall to the 3rd ... then replace it with this and see if you still like it ...

 

1.5: Tristan Wirfs, OT Iowa

1.18: Andrew Thomas, OT Georgia

2.7: Tee Higgins, WR Clemson

3.2: Bryce Hall, CB UVA

3.4: Albert O, TE Mizzou

3.6: Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illinois

4.2: Alex Highsmith, Edge Charlotte

4.36: Collin Johnson, WR Texas

[Fresh8686]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I still don't think we trade out of 2... but I think we need to think about it. 

 

If we did I would do something like this:

 

1.5 - Simmons - LB, Clemson

1.18 - K'Lavon Chaisson, EDGE, LSU (If he falls, if not look towards Jeudy/Henderson/Diggs)

2.7 - Lucas Niang, OT, TCU

3.2 - Kyle Dugger, LB/S, Lenoir-Rhyne

3.4 - Trautman/AO, TE, Dayton/Mizzou

4.2 - Logan Wilson, LB, Wyoming

4.14 - Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB, App State

4.36 -  Darrynton Evans/Booger Jr./Antonio Gibson, RB, App State/Maryland/Memphis

5.16 - Trishton Jackson, WR, Syracuse

 

Reshapes LB completely... Wilson as MIKE, Simmons/Gaither at OLB, Dugger at FS

 

Jackson/the RB/Niang/the TE dramatically improve the offense. 

 

We got many of the same favorites.  I'd stay at 2 but to play along

 

1.5 Simmons S-LB

1.18 Patrick Queen LB

2.7 I'd love Niang got some doubts he's there but otherwise Isaiah Wilson  OT

3.2  Robert Hunt OG

3.4  Adam Trautman TE

4.2  Michael Pittman, Tyler Johnson, Duvernay -- whomever is left at WR

4.14 Davis-Gaither (not sure if he is still there, or Tony Pride CB

4.36 A. Gibson or Amik Robertson or Bryan Edwards

5.16  Devin Asiasi (another TE, why not?), Geno Stone or Tanner Muse

[nonniey]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Trades Mock using Matt Miller's updated Big Board ... or as I refer to it after it was done ... "the stud and 7 potential eventual starters" mock

*Trent to NYJ for 3.4 and 4.14

*1.2 to MIA for 1.5, 1.18. 2.7

 

1.5: Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson

1.18: Josh Jones, OT Houston

2.7: Laviska Shenault, WR Colorado

3.2: Bryce Hall, CB UVA

3.4: Adam Trautman, TE Dayton

4.2: Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illionois

4.14: Collin Johnson, WR Texas

4.36: Kenny Willikes, Edge Michigan State

5.16: Dane Jackson, CB Pitt

I like this but would lean Okudah over Simmons.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, nonniey said:

I like this but would lean Okudah over Simmons.

 

So would I but I think there is a better shot Simmons is still there at 5 than Okudah. 

[nonniey]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So would I but I think there is a better shot Simmons is still there at 5 than Okudah. 

I figure if we trade back a QB will go #2 Chase #3 and Giants will still take an OT at #4. But yes I think Simmons is more likely to be there than Okudah.