2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

Wait. Fulton was on the board in the FOURTH round? Trautman in the 4th comps? Jonah Jackson in the 5th? Logan Wilson and Harrison Bryant in the 7th?

 

Wow, I either really suck at this or they do.

 

I'm willing to bet its me. 

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Wait. Fulton was on the board in the FOURTH round? Trautman in the 4th comps? Jonah Jackson in the 5th? Logan Wilson and Harrison Bryant in the 7th?

I know - absolutely ridiculous.  I didn’t even notice Fulton with my 3rd round pick - saw Niang and went for it given our OT situation.  

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Wow, I either really suck at this or they do.

 

I'm willing to bet its me. 

Oh, I’m willing to bet it ain’t you...

[method man]

In prior drafts, I'd be curious to understand who was responsible for all the trade downs in Day 2 and Day 3 to get more picks. I hope it was Kyle because, as frustrating it may have been to see on draft day, we ended up thankful for as the season played out (last year trading down in the 3rd being an example). 

 

We have 7 picks now. I'd like to see this get to 9-10 (so maybe 1-2 tradedown assuming you get 1 pick back for Trent). If you make the assumption that #2 is used on Chase and the team brings in a vet corner and vet LT to  replace Trent, you still have needs at:

 

- WR (2) - need someone to push Harmon for the #2 spot and could use a depth guy to push Cam Sims out. Latimer is a STer

- TE (2) - need a starter or at least a guy who can be no. 2 TE as a rookie (could take 2 as Rodgers, Thomas and Hentges are all expendable)

- OT (1) - one more prospect needed to compete w Christian to be LT of future or to pencil in to replace Moses

- CB (1) - even if a vet is signed, still need more depth w starter potential

- S (2) - Need a FS w starter upside and SS who can backup Collins and compete w Reaves for that spot. Apke becomes your #5 guy who is rotational

- QB (1) - with one of the 7ths, could take a PS guy who can be the defacto #3

- LB (1) - even w Davis and Pierre-Louis, need another young guy who profiles as someone who could start long term. Bostic and Foster should not be considered safe.

- C (1) - shouldn't pay Roullier when he hits FA. Could take someone Day 3 to compete w Pierschbacher to be future starter there

- FB (1) - someone should push the guy we signed off the scrap heap last year 

 

Remember that the roster expands when the new CBA kicks in 2021 so it'd be great to have a kickass practice squad to move to the active roster the following season.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

48 minutes ago, method man said:

In prior drafts, I'd be curious to understand who was responsible for all the trade downs in Day 2 and Day 3 to get more picks. I hope it was Kyle because, as frustrating it may have been to see on draft day, we ended up thankful for as the season played out (last year trading down in the 3rd being an example). 

 

 

I am for this in theory just about always and especially this year. But at least two of those times, we didn't get the better end of the deal.   We traded down one year in the 2nd so Dallas could get D. Lawrence and we ended up getting Trent Murphy and change.  I recall loving the trade down in the 4th with Seattle to allow Seattle to take Tyler Lockett, we got Crowder and change.

 

I liked the trading in the 2016 draft, moving down to accumulate higher 2017 picks.  I am with you in this draft as for doing it.  Just saying the prior results doing it are at best mixed.

[HigSkin]

 

[volsmet]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The dude that strikes me in that next tier of tackles that is OK but doesn't do anything great is Ben Bartch.  I see some like Reddick bill him as a stud and some others tout him as the gem of the next group of tackles. I don't see it.  I was harsh on him on my initial take, so I gave him a 2nd look.  On 2nd look. I can see how some might see him as steady so I'll back off some of my initial harsh take.  

 

My thought is for a guy who is just barely over 300 pounds (though he bulked up some for the senior bowl) he's not as quick or agile as you'd think he'd be.   He plays high, doesn't look like he has great bend.  PFF gives him a really high pass block grade.  I see why, defenders don't really get by him much.  But maybe it's just the games I watched but he seemed to be playing against JAGs in lower division games, and when in those games these JAG players showed some moves, he tended to lose his grip on that defender and luckily those defenders still didn't make it in time to sack the QB but a better pass rusher would IMO. 

 

I know I am projecting with him but I just wonder how he'd do against a real pass rusher and my gut is it won't be as hot as some of his advocates believe it would be.   As a run blocker he doesn't really plow guys.   I'll buy that he might be steady and OK but if he is this good LT which seem to push, I am missing it. 

 

Terrell Lewis, throws a spin move at him here, and beats him.  For me when I watch Bartch he strikes me as a try hard, lunch pail type (reading the story about how he bulked up to play LT from TE, has him come off as a hard worker) but will get beat by athletic pass rushers and ones who have multiple moves in their arsenal.    He doesn't have long arms, he has small hands.  To me he looks like a backup-swing tackle or I'd move him to guard, maybe RT, I can see him develop into a decent player at those spots.  He doesn't hit me as a dude as I'd leave on an island to protect my QB's blindside.  The NFL isn't college division III.

 

 

 

 

 

Big fan of Bartch. I considered taking him a moment ago. As you know, he was a TE & only played tackle for a couple years, he’s put on 75lbs or so and has kept impressive movement/burst/agility through that transition. He played against laughable competition in college, but I was impressed by him in a few one on ones in Mobile, he dominated Lewis on one of his more impressive reps, it’s a gigantic leap in competition & he handed it well. 

[HigSkin]

 

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I like this format and your rankings make sense. Then again, I like any format you put these in lol.

I like both of the Love's.

Don't mind Bryant late.

I usually have a crush on one mid to late rounder but nothing yet. Need to review Josh Love more, he could be the one but don't know a ton about him.

I have some familiarity with Flacco and he is intriguing. He could be worth a flyer in the 7th if that's what they want although probably an UDFA

 

 

[DWinzit]

21 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Cesar Ruiz is the class of the group. If he has a knock its that he's overly aggressive.

 

My #2, though... Matt Hennessy out of Temple. He is everything Cesar is just much more calm and fluid. He is missing Ruiz' power, which is why he sits at 2 and not 1. 

 

#7 - Robert Hunt from La. Lafayette, who's teammate Kevin Dotson came in at 12... and he is criminally underrated/under mentioned by draftniks that I've seen. Dude is a big ass baller.

 

#4 Tyler Biadasz - Granted, he's still my #4. But the hype I see him get is through the roof. He anchors and his strength is incredible. I don't see him aggressively finishing blocks or being all that athletic. 

I like Hunts potential versatility as well as his play.

 

I'd be okay if Tyler Badass fell into the 4th and we'd filled some holes already in that roster. You are correct about him, he was hyped up all last year as a mid 1st rounder.

 

I like Jackson.The one thing that bothered me with him was he reminded me of Moses, seemed to hold a lot.

 

@HigSkin- great Claypool post!

[KDawg]

Watching defensive tackles now (trying to finish the primary position groups, do my first big board, and then rewatch guys and add some other guys into the mix.

 

Why aren't more people talking about Derrick Brown as the best player in the draft? I know we love Chase Young here, but Brown is a ****ing wrecking ball. And Kinlaw isn't that much lower on the mountain. These guys are insane. I've watched bits and pieces, but I just spent 25 minutes watching stuff on each of them... So almost an hour... Just mesmerized with those two dudes. Good Lord. 

 

I've moved on since. But wow. 

[PlayAction]

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I still think we’ll be drafting for need in the 3rd/4th rounds.

 

on the basis we failed in a bid for Cooper, sniffed around the Diggs trade, and also missed on both Olsen and Hooper, then WR and TE must be firmly on the list of positions high up on our draft requirements.

 

It's going to be a long wait after the Skins pick #2.  I'm not expecting a trade down but you never know.  Fortunately, this draft is especially deep with WR talent so a highly rated WR should be available at the top of the 3rd round.  The question is whom?

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll risk it if someone takes Jauan Jennings on the board's mock draft so be it.  😀

 

Jauan Jennings, if the dude even ran a 4.55 I'd think he'd be a sure fire top 3 round type pick.  The 4.72 is the obvious hesitation about him and its a biggie.  The hope perhaps is that he ends up like J. Landry who ran a similar time.  They both play slot.  Landry is IMO the better route runner, separator, and has better hands.  Jennings is the more physical player with the ball in his hands.  They are both good run blockers.

 

The dude is fun to watch with the ball in his hands, he's a beast as for YAC and tough to bring down.   He's good with short-intermediate out routes, crossers-digs up the middle.  He actually might fit Haskins well because of being a good receiver up the middle, could work the mesh route drill.  He reminds me some of Bryan Edwards in this draft, though I see Edwards having more speed and by extension can stretch the field more.

 

I can compare him some to Harmon, I recall some of my scouting report last year on Harmon who I liked back then.  Harmon played outside, mostly Z on the right.  Jennings mostly plays slot, on occasion they lined him outside.   Like Harmon, Jennings can block and does it with attitude.  I attached a clip of it herein the mix of them.   Harmon for a dude who runs 4.6, had sneaky ability to get deep and make big plays.  Jennings not so much on that count.  But Jennings is more of a beast than Harmon with the ball in his hands, he is strong and has good balance to stay on his feet when being tackled and juke defenders out of the way better IMO than Harmon.  

 

They use him in wildcat formations, gadget type plays where at times he lined up at Qb and even throws the ball.  On a sidebar, the more I watch receivers and TEs block the more I appreciate Adam Trautman.  Jennings is a good blocker.  He's not the only receiver and TE in this class than blocks well.  But Trautman to be is special in his consistency.  When I watch someone like Jennings, I enjoy seeing some of the blocks and determine that he's good at it but then he misses his share of blocks too and or loses his grip sometimes quickly on a defender.  But overall, he's a really good blocker.  I can say similar things about the other good blockers at TE and WR in this draft but what makes Trautman to me really standout is I don't have to forgive much in the blocking, where I let this play go or let that play go and give him a pass.  Trautman is so consistent at it, that's what makes him so intriguing to me among other reasons. 

 

If it's the late rounds, I'd be cool with Jennings, good player IMO but his speed issue drops him down for obvious reasons.  Going back to my Landry comparison, Landry is a little slower and not as big-strong as Jennings.  So I'd ride perhaps on that as to him overcoming speed issues.

[KDawg]

 

#1&#2 are absolute animals. They should be in the conversation for best defensive players in this draft. 

 

Other notes:

 

#10 Sosa Agim. His burst when shooting a gap is unreal. 

 

#11 Kevin Thurmon. Extremely violent player. 

 

#17 Auzoyah Alufohai. Not a 3 down tackle. But can anchor well. Hurdle is competition level. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I know nothing about Eli Wolf but those are some good numbers for a TE

 

 

 

 

2019

 

REC	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	LNG	FUM	LST
13	194	14.9	1	47	0	0	0.0	0	0	0	0

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I would love to land Isaiah Wilson. Where is he currently projected? I currently think we have zero NFL starting quality OT's. Wilson is the kind of guy that would have killed it for NE. Elite size and length. Underrated athleticism. 

 

 

 

Huge no thank you to Chase Claypool. Will be extremely over drafted based on traits. I'd infinitely prefer Albert O. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, volsmet said:

Big fan of Bartch. I considered taking him a moment ago. As you know, he was a TE & only played tackle for a couple years, he’s put on 75lbs or so and has kept impressive movement/burst/agility through that transition. He played against laughable competition in college, but I was impressed by him in a few one on ones in Mobile, he dominated Lewis on one of his more impressive reps, it’s a gigantic leap in competition & he handed it well. 

 

I am having a hard time falling hard for him with the games they showcase on youtube.    But don't hate him either.   I see him as a bit of a projection.  My gut is you got to move him off of LT to get the most of him.   Arm length just short of 33" and 9" hands.   I like him in pass protection but not blown away considering who he was up against and as a run blocker I don't think he locks that well on his blocks on the 2nd level, not bad at it either, but I don't get that jazzed watching him. 

 

But obviously I could be wrong.  I want to love him considering I think there is a good chance he's there in the 3rd and we have one heck of a gap at LT if Trent leaves.  The guys who I love in that 2nd tier range:  Cleveland, Niang and Wilson I think are more likely going to be gone in the 2nd.  Bartch maybe too.
 

As for the Senior Bowl, seems like there are clips to prove good things and bad things about most of the prospects there.    PFF likes Bartch but gave him a pedestrian grade for his senior bowl snaps.

 

[KDawg]

My first attempt at a big board... (I still have some guys to evaluate and re-evaluate, so this isn't final)

 

 

[mistertim]

Interesting @KDawg. I don't think I've seen another big board with Brown above Young. I've actually seen a few with him as #2 behind Young and above Burrow. I have watched a few of his cutups and was very impressed but didn't necessarily see the same level of dominance as from CY. Have you always been this high on him or was it as you've been watching more film?

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I would love to land Isaiah Wilson. Where is he currently projected? I currently think we have zero NFL starting quality OT's. Wilson is the kind of guy that would have killed it for NE. Elite size and length. Underrated athleticism. 

 

 

Usually anywhere from early 2nd to early 3rd.  Yeah I like Wilson a lot. 

 

37 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

Huge no thank you to Chase Claypool. Will be extremely over drafted based on traits. I'd infinitely prefer Albert O. 

 

 

Tough for me to figure out a WR transitioning to a TE, so I got no feel for Claypool doing it.  Claypool and Hunter Bryant to me are the big wildcards where I can see it going either way.    As for Albert O.  To me he's in that next group of TE's after Trautman and Kmet.  I'd have him a half a peg ahead of:  Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, Asiasi.

 

Albert O is certainly the biggest athletic freak of the bunch and probably the most talented.  My concern about him is that he hasn't really put up big numbers ever.  Even his peak year the season before while he had decent stats wise it was nothing great.    I am hoping that was just about context and circumstance as opposed to him being an underachiever.   For a dude with his size and athleticism, you'd figure he should be able to put up numbers that rivals a Hopkins or Harrison Bryant but he didn't.  He has one of the weakest YPR among the TE's too.  I like Albert O but I have a disclaimer on him, too as I do on most of the TEs albeit I do like a lot of these guys but there is probably only one I love. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

Interesting @KDawg. I don't think I've seen another big board with Brown above Young. I've actually seen a few with him as #2 behind Young and above Burrow. I have watched a few of his cutups and was very impressed but didn't necessarily see the same level of dominance as from CY. Have you always been this high on him or was it as you've been watching more film?

 

When I sat and watched him. Brown doesn't disappear, ever. Young has moments where you aren't sure he's on the field (90% of that is scheming and position as it's easier to avoid an End vs. a Tackle). I think Brown is absolutely dominant. I'm not sure I've seen a DT as dominant as him enter the draft in I don't know how long. 

 

We see dominant ends (though not as good as Young) on a routine basis in the top tier of the draft.

 

This is NOT a knock on Young. He's a top end talent and will be a fantastic addition to absolutely any roster. It's more applause for Brown. Dude is unreal. Young plays with a little mean streak, but he's cerebral. Offensive linemen have to fill their pants against Brown. He is just ****ing ruthless. I love it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My first attempt at a big board... (I still have some guys to evaluate and re-evaluate, so this isn't final)

 

 

That's a lot of work.  I've put in more time evaluating players in this draft than any other.  I got another month to keep going. 

 

I see you've come to my way of thinking on Lamb > Jeudy.  😀  I recall earlier on you preferred Jeudy.  I do love both players.

 

As for Derrick Brown, I've watched some games in real time where he's created havoc but I haven't sat down to just watch him. I know some draft geek types think he's the best player in the draft but I think they've come off it (I recall at least one did, forgetting right now whom) after Brown's pedestrian combine.  But you are definitely not the only one who loves him.  

[RWJ]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Usually anywhere from early 2nd to early 3rd.  Yeah I like Wilson a lot. 

 

 

Tough for me to figure out a WR transitioning to a TE, so I got no feel for Claypool doing it.  Claypool and Hunter Bryant to me are the big wildcards where I can see it going either way.    As for Albert O.  To me he's in that next group of TE's after Trautman and Kmet.  I'd have him a half a peg ahead of:  Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, Asiasi.

 

Albert O is certainly the biggest athletic freak of the bunch and probably the most talented.  My concern about him is that he hasn't really put up big numbers ever.  Even his peak year the season before while he had decent stats wise it was nothing great.    I am hoping that was just about context and circumstance as opposed to him being an underachiever.   For a dude with his size and athleticism, you'd figure he should be able to put up numbers that rivals a Hopkins or Harrison Bryant but he didn't.  He has one of the weakest YPR among the TE's too.  I like Albert O but I have a disclaimer on him, too as I do on most of the TEs albeit I do like a lot of these guys but there is probably only one I love. 

I hope we go TE with #66.  I like Kmet first and then Trautman second.  Love to have either.  Hopefully, WR in the 4th with one of our picks and I like Peoples from Michigan if he's there in the 4th.

[DWinzit]

KDawg,

Nice, you have a ton of time invested in this!

The only things that jump out are Ruiz way up to 21, plus Chinn and Hennessy all making the the top 30...but I get it and like the heck out of all three!!!

[actorguy1]

How do we find this years McLaurin or Kittle? Players with great measurables ,drive and character but perhaps wasn't the first or second option on offense? A true dark horse.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I hope we go TE with #66.  I like Kmet first and then Trautman second.  Love to have either.  Hopefully, WR in the 4th with one of our picks and I like Peoples from Michigan if he's there in the 4th.

 

I like both TEs, slightly prefer Trautman.   I am not much of a People-Jones guy albeit his athleticism is impressive.   But there are a ton of receivers I love, including one you touted to me --Duvernay.