2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

Cesar Ruiz is the class of the group. If he has a knock its that he's overly aggressive.

 

#7 - Robert Hunt from La. Lafayette, who's teammate Kevin Dotson came in at 12... and he is criminally underrated/under mentioned by draftniks that I've seen. Dude is a big ass baller.

 

I haven't watched a lot of guards, I spent much more time on tackles,  I got to catch up on the guard spot.  But love these two from what I've watched.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Welcome to the club Nick

 

[Skinsinparadise]

K'von Wallace.  FS.  Can play some SS, play slot.  Brings serious feistiness and energy in the backfield.   He's good at blitzing.   Blows up screens well.  He seems like a smart player.    He can cover just about every corner of the field well including deep.   Clemson seems to use their players in the secondary like chess pieces -- it wasn't just Simmons on that count albeit Simmons was obviously the biggest physical freak in that mix. 

 

He's a bit undersized.  He needs to build some forward momentum to tackle otherwise he can get run over.  I feel the same way about McKinney, in their shoes I'd work to put on 10 pounds of muscle.    But he's certainly a dude that feeds off of being physical considering his style of the play and the way he celebrates on the field when he or a teammate levels a guy. 

 

He was often the guy giving their team's defense the pregame pep talk.  Reading about him, he was one of their key leaders.  He grew up in Virginia, had a tough upbringing, worked hard to get himself where he is at.  Comes off like a high character dude. 

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

I’ve been watching him over and over and over. Something about him made me think my initial thought was wrong. He flies around out there and makes plays. He’s moved up on my safety list significantly from my last post... but something still seems to bother me with him.

 

I think it’s the fact that his tackling as the center fielder leaves something to be desired.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’ve been watching him over and over and over. Something about him made me think my initial thought was wrong. He flies around out there and makes plays. He’s moved up on my safety list significantly from my last post... but something still seems to bother me with him.

 

I think it’s the fact that his tackling as the center fielder leaves something to be desired.

I think a lot of it is driven by him simply being undersized.  I think he needs to put on some muscle.

 

To me he is a poor man’s McKinney.  I watched McKinney closely live at the Citrus Bowl. McKinney is a smart player and always seems around the ball and is a feisty tackler who plays physical but he is also undersized and at times gets steamrolled.

 

Wallace Isn’t as good as McKinney and has some flaws.  I see him as a dude who fits in that 4th round range give or take. In mocks, he is often in the 3rd-4th round range.
 

I do give some extra credit to the high intangible type players.  And that’s part of the reason why I liked McLaurin predraft. Reading up on Wallace he comes off as a good dude, a leader who helps motivate his teammates. London Fletcher style.  So potentially he’s a good locker room guy, too.  And I like FSs who are good at playing slot when need be like him.

[method man]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I'd take him in the 4-7 range.

 

He could fall, depending on runs on positions. Currently, pre-post season stuff (Bowls/Combine), I have him 13th on my tackle board. I have some more tackles to review, and I'm going to watch him again. But I wouldn't be surprised if he was taken in the 4th. At all. 

 

Do you see him as a right tackle starter or as a swing backup at the next level? With his height, guard is out of the picture. Also, not sure if you are guilty of this, but many publications still have Trey Adams ranked ahead of him. Why?

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Guards and centers...

 

Cesar Ruiz is the class of the group. If he has a knock its that he's overly aggressive.

 

My #2, though... Matt Hennessy out of Temple. He is everything Cesar is just much more calm and fluid. He is missing Ruiz' power, which is why he sits at 2 and not 1. 

 

Other "Highlights":

 

#6 - Cameron Clark from Charlotte.

 

#7 - Robert Hunt from La. Lafayette, who's teammate Kevin Dotson came in at 12... and he is criminally underrated/under mentioned by draftniks that I've seen. Dude is a big ass baller.

 

#10 Jonah Jackson. My major gripe with him is his level. He plays like he's standing completely upright. But watch him against Clemson. This guy is underrated.

 

#19 Cohl Cabral is a sleeper. Good pad level, can move guys off the line. Downside? Sometimes he's left standing around with his thumb up his ass. 

 

Guys I'm not all that impressed with that get a ton of hype:

 

#4 Tyler Biadasz - Granted, he's still my #4. But the hype I see him get is through the roof. He anchors and his strength is incredible. I don't see him aggressively finishing blocks or being all that athletic. And I think that puts him behind my first two centers. Though, I think if he goes to a situation where he's not in a zone blocking scheme, he could be a real steal for someone. 

 

#14 Nick Harris. Man, I don't see it with him. Absolute athlete, would work well in a zone scheme. But he doesn't dominate on the LoS, has limited length and he gets blown up too often for my liking. 

Henny, Jonah, Dotson & Hakeem are my boys. 

[Koolblue13]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think a lot of it is driven by him simply being undersized.  I think he needs to put on some muscle.

 

To me he is a poor man’s McKinney.  I watched McKinney closely live at the Citrus Bowl. McKinney is a smart player and always seems around the ball and is a feisty tackler who plays physical but he is also undersized and at times gets steamrolled.

 

Wallace Isn’t as good as McKinney and has some flaws.  I see him as a dude who fits in that 4th round range give or take. In mocks, he is often in the 3rd-4th round range.
 

I do give some extra credit to the high intangible type players.  And that’s part of the reason why I liked McLaurin predraft. Reading up on Wallace he comes off as a good dude, a leader who helps motivate his teammates. London Fletcher style.  So potentially he’s a good locker room guy, too.  And I like FSs who are good at playing slot when need be like him.

Would really be a perfect situation for him to be drafted by us. Especially if we sign Randal like some are saying. Plenty of space at corner and both safety spots and another versatile DB, like Fuller.

[KDawg]

9 hours ago, method man said:

 

Do you see him as a right tackle starter or as a swing backup at the next level? With his height, guard is out of the picture. Also, not sure if you are guilty of this, but many publications still have Trey Adams ranked ahead of him. Why?

 

I think he's a left tackle. He needs to get stronger. He's going to do best in a situation where they use him on the move a little bit. A zone/gap scheme where he's pulling on counter trey type plays and using his lateral quickness to his advantage. 

 

I had him ranked below Adams in my initial rankings (I base them solely off the tape unless I know of a glaring issue). Adams had first round potential in his play. And I think he could be a steal. But injury concerns. 

 

He is not ranked below Adams any more as of a day ago. And watching Heck again he moved up a little more for me. 

[KDawg]

 

Notes: I think Henderson may be better than Okudah. But it's tough to prove. Henderson's flaw is he's a little over aggressive and that could net some PIs at the next level.

 

I've already touched on Diggs in other posts. So my summation: Dude is good. 

 

Initially I wasn't high on Arnette. But I watched him several times and he just keeps looking better and better. Good movement. Can stick with receivers. Aggressive. Changes direction well. Better at man than zone. Presses like a bad ass. Breaks up passes. Not a fan of his tackling. But if he could tackle he might be higher than Okudah. Seriously.

 

Dantzler, despite the slow 40, has fared well against top NFL receiving prospects. Numbers don't matter when your film shows you can play. If he shows he can do the same at the NFL level, he'll have a long career. He won't be as reliant on speed as some other guys. May stick for longer than people think.

 

Amik Robertson. Aggressive little ****. Attacks, attacks, attacks and makes plays. His height and weight are his limiting factor. Will need to work on route recognition a little bit and some footwork stuff.

 

Darnay Holmes is a technician. Very aware. Good movement. Not afraid of anyone, any thing or any situation. Lacks length. 

 

I am not high on Stanford Samuels III, John Reid or Essang Bassey. They are small and play small. They get moved around a lot. In contrast, Trajan Bandy, who also is a smaller guy, is a reflexive and attacking player. Bandy has a spot on a NFL roster as a special teamer, not sure he will be able to survive at corner. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Initially I wasn't high on Arnette. But I watched him several times and he just keeps looking better and better. Good movement. Can stick with receivers. Aggressive. Changes direction well. Better at man than zone. Presses like a bad ass. Breaks up passes. Not a fan of his tackling. But if he could tackle he might be higher than Okudah. Seriously.

 

 

He's my top guy as for the 2nd tier types, I've been pushing him.  As you mention he sticks to receivers well.   He plays with a feistiness too in coverage which is fun to watch.  Some character concerns might have him drop though. 

 

If I recall I like Jaylon Johnson along with @stevemcqueen1 more than most people on this thread.  I was just looking at his PFF numbers.   He has one of the better passer rating numbers among the corners, passers only rating a 52.7 when throwing his way.  Among the hyped corners in this draft, only Diggs beats him on that, he has a 44.5 passer rating against him.   He also had the best missed tackle numbers in the mix, only missed 5%. 

 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's my top guy as for the 2nd tier types, I've been pushing him.  As you mention he sticks to receivers well.   He plays with a feistiness too in coverage which is fun to watch.  Some character concerns might have him drop though. 

 

If I recall I like Jaylon Johnson along with @stevemcqueen1 more than most people on this thread.  I was just looking at his PFF numbers.   He has one of the better passer rating numbers among the corners, passers only rating a 52.7.  Among the hyped corners in this draft, only Diggs beats him on that, he has a 44.5 passer rating against him.   He also had the best missed tackle numbers in the mix, only missed 5%. 

 

 

With Jaylon Johnson I see a steady player. A guy who will get the job done on a down to down basis. Tackle well. But he doesn't do anything great. He's not a dynamic athlete, he's not a ball hawk, he's not a big hitter, he's not a shut down corner. But he's all around solid, and as always, there is something to be said for that. He's like Isaiah Wilson is for OTs. Or Evan Weaver for ILBs. Or Alton Robinson for EDGE guys. Or Devin Asiasi as a TE. Or K'Von Wallace as a safety. They aren't burn it down studs that completely take over a game or make plays left and right.

 

But they are steady and reliable.

 

I know he's 9, but I'd be thrilled if this team got Johnson somehow. He's going to be good in the NFL. 

 

Our biases show in this thread, though. Mine are clearly that I like thumpers who can make something happen, especially in the secondary. Guys who are athletic and hit and can keep things in front of them. Linebackers I like thumpers who play with instinct and attack downhill. 

 

You like the steady guys moreso than the other types more.

 

But I think we're similar in that both of those types of players appeal to both of us significantly. Just in different ways and where the value in them are.

 

EDIT: I've been watching more of Noah and I think he and Jaylon are going to flop spots once I finish up my rankings. But we'll see.

[Skinsinparadise]

The point below I agree with.  I don't get the hype over Moss.  It's not that I think he's terrible.  He's a decent blocker.  He's got good hands.  But he has no burst off the line of scrimmage, he looks sluggish running routes. Then you add him having a plate in his foot and they just discovered another broken bone in his foot.  No thank you from me.

 

I think some of the hype is his dad.  You'd just assume that Randy Moss' son has speed.  But the reality is he doesn't.  Also he made one of his best catches in one of the most watched college games, LSU-Alabama.  So I think with some it's the combination of those two things. 

 

I see him in mocks anywhere from the 2nd-6th round.  For me he's a 6th round dude.  I wouldn't hate the pick there.  But no way I'd pick him 3rd-5th.  

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

With Jaylon Johnson I see a steady player. A guy who will get the job done on a down to down basis. Tackle well. But he doesn't do anything great. He's not a dynamic athlete, he's not a ball hawk, he's not a big hitter, he's not a shut down corner. But he's all around solid, and as always, there is something to be said for that.

 

I get the point, I personally think he's a little better than that.  For example, you say he's not a ball hawk.  But he had 7 INTs, one of the highest numbers among the top prospects, and higher than the typical CB billed to go ahead of him.  I agree he's steady.  Some of the QBs in this draft, peaked this last year.  Jaylon had a sick QB rating (in the 50s) for the last 3 years. 

 

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He's like Isaiah Wilson is for OTs.

 

I agree with most of those player analogies not sure about Wilson.  I see your point Wilson isn't in the league of the top 4 tackles in this draft.  But he intrigues me a lot in that next tier.   The deeper I do apples to apples comparisons with him and the 2nd tier type OTs, the more I like him.  Another thingHe's one of the rare guys in that tier who actually has longish arms.

 

Wilson is a freak.  35.5 arm length.  360 pounds but still runs a 1.79.  And he can blow guys up.  He's fun to watch.  I like dudes like that on the O line, same reason why I love R. Hunt.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The dude that strikes me in that next tier of tackles that is OK but doesn't do anything great is Ben Bartch.  I see some like Reddick bill him as a stud and some others tout him as the gem of the next group of tackles. I don't see it.  I was harsh on him on my initial take, so I gave him a 2nd look.  On 2nd look. I can see how some might see him as steady so I'll back off some of my initial harsh take.  

 

My thought is for a guy who is just barely over 300 pounds (though he bulked up some for the senior bowl) he's not as quick or agile as you'd think he'd be.   He plays high, doesn't look like he has great bend.  PFF gives him a really high pass block grade.  I see why, defenders don't really get by him much.  But maybe it's just the games I watched but he seemed to be playing against JAGs in lower division games, and when in those games these JAG players showed some moves, he tended to lose his grip on that defender and luckily those defenders still didn't make it in time to sack the QB but a better pass rusher would IMO. 

 

I know I am projecting with him but I just wonder how he'd do against a real pass rusher and my gut is it won't be as hot as some of his advocates believe it would be.   As a run blocker he doesn't really plow guys.   I'll buy that he might be steady and OK but if he is this good LT which seem to push, I am missing it. 

 

Terrell Lewis, throws a spin move at him here, and beats him.  For me when I watch Bartch he strikes me as a try hard, lunch pail type (reading the story about how he bulked up to play LT from TE, has him come off as a hard worker) but will get beat by athletic pass rushers and ones who have multiple moves in their arsenal.    He doesn't have long arms, he has small hands.  To me he looks like a backup-swing tackle or I'd move him to guard, maybe RT, I can see him develop into a decent player at those spots.  He doesn't hit me as a dude as I'd leave on an island to protect my QB's blindside.  The NFL isn't college division III.

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree with most of those player analogies not sure about Wilson.  I see your point Wilson isn't in the league of the top 4 tackles in this draft.  But he intrigues me a lot in that next tier.  

 

 

I think that kind of is my point, though.

 

There isn't ONE type of guy who is steady. Some are still really good athletes. Some take advantage of situations to the fullest possible extent, etc.

 

Isaiah Wilson is absolutely in that second tier of tackles and likely at the front. 

 

Jaylon Johnson is in a similar place as far as corners go. Maybe not the top end of that group, but if he's not he's certainly in that next grouping of Tier II. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think that kind of is my point, though.

 

There isn't ONE type of guy who is steady. Some are still really good athletes. Some take advantage of situations to the fullest possible extent, etc.

 

Isaiah Wilson is absolutely in that second tier of tackles and likely at the front. 

 

Jaylon Johnson is in a similar place as far as corners go. Maybe not the top end of that group, but if he's not he's certainly in that next grouping. 

 

OK, I follow, I agree, he's not tier 1. 

[Est.1974]

I still think we’ll be drafting for need in the 3rd/4th rounds.

 

on the basis we failed in a bid for Cooper, sniffed around the Diggs trade, and also missed on both Olsen and Hooper, then WR and TE must be firmly on the list of positions high up on our draft requirements.

 

if we stick with Young at #2, then by time we exit the 4th round we’ll have taken a WR and TE in my opinion. In fact, my first take still applies after Young, MLB, TE, WR

 

that said, if we trade back to #5, we can make hay while the sun shines. Tempting.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[KDawg]

 

Okay, did QBs a touch different. Working on a tier system... Not sure I like it yet... might need refining.

 

Also put more commentary in the notes. 

 

Standouts:

 

#8 Josh Love, San Jose State. I think he's going to be solid.

 

#14 Tom Flacco. 

 

Not impressed, at all: Steven Montez. 

[method man]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I think he's a left tackle. He needs to get stronger. He's going to do best in a situation where they use him on the move a little bit. A zone/gap scheme where he's pulling on counter trey type plays and using his lateral quickness to his advantage. 

 

I had him ranked below Adams in my initial rankings (I base them solely off the tape unless I know of a glaring issue). Adams had first round potential in his play. And I think he could be a steal. But injury concerns. 

 

He is not ranked below Adams any more as of a day ago. And watching Heck again he moved up a little more for me. 

My worry with Adams is not only does he get hurt all the time but he doesn’t fully recover from his injuries. He’s a shell of what he used to be when he started his college career

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Okay, did QBs a touch different. Working on a tier system... Not sure I like it yet... might need refining.

 

Also put more commentary in the notes. 

 

Standouts:

 

#8 Josh Love, San Jose State. I think he's going to be solid.

 

#14 Tom Flacco. 

 

Not impressed, at all: Steven Montez. 

The question then is who is the UDFA that has upside and fits Turner’s system that you can put on the PS?

[HTTRDynasty]

Interesting question... maybe we should be okay with football being cancelled in 2020 if it happens?  Imagine having the 2nd overall pick 2 drafts in a row (without having to earn it)... 

 

 

 

[skinny21]

Ran a Fanspeak draft (no trades) using WalterFootball’s board... I’m not sure how WF has such a high success rate re. the draft, because this is pretty ridiculous (and I mainly drafted for need, I can’t imagine if I’d gone with more of a pure BPA)

 

2: R1P2

 

EDGE CHASE YOUNG

OHIO STATE

66: R3P2

 

OT LUCAS NIANG

TCU

108: R4P2

 

CB KRISTIAN FULTON

LSU

142: R4P36

 

TE ADAM TRAUTMAN

DAYTON

162: R5P16

 

G JONAH JACKSON

OHIO STATE

216: R7P2

 

LB LOGAN WILSON

WYOMING

229: R7P15

 

TE HARRISON BRYANT

FLORIDA ATLANTIC