2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

Free agency has me thinking we trade out of #2.

 

 

[DWinzit]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

DeVito is so bad.

 

Still... 66 receptions, 1023 yards, 11 TD for Jackson. With really bad QB play.

 

Jackson is solid.

In fairness to DeVito his OL just wasn't that good, he was under continuous pressure. None-the-less, he wasn't as good as expected or needed. Things may not be any better this year as Cuse loses many of their top players.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Free agency has me thinking we trade out of #2.

 

 

 

I can't see that. I am reading FA differently. Someone put it well over in the FA thread, but the gist is that this is an audition year for Haskins. The team will put some young talent around him (Draft) and making sure he's "the guy" before spending a ton of money to surround him with talent. I think I understand this approach. I also don't think FA is over by any means, and the team is likely waiting to trade TW before making their next move (likely by adding an OT/G type like Daryl Williams).

 

It reads to me that Rivera and Co know this isn't a win-now in 2020 team. This is a team that has talent but needs to be built the right way. If Haskins is the guy, you begin adding talent in the 2021 FA class. I think my current projections are at this point, with cap rollover and a projected $240m cap ... the Redskins would have around $150m in cap space next year after cutting Smith.

 

Of course, that's all to say that Rivera and Co may get an offer they can't refuse. Something like 5, 18, 39 and a 2021 1st. And if that is the case, I won't blame them for taking the trade. But I think they understand the value of building an elite DL and pass-rush.

 

My takeaways:

Defense: Added depth/competition at weakness (LB) and (assuming Chase) fortify an elite DL. Build the Front 7 and mask some back-end DB deficiencies, test out the young secondary to see what needs to be done in 2021 ... use FA in 2021 to add talent at DB (CB1) ...

 

Offense: Young core, clear issue at LT. Add talent through the mid-round picks and let the core of the team gel in 2020 before re-assessing / adding talent in the 2021 off-season with huge sum of $$. Think ... stopgap LT + rookie 3rd or 4th round pick. See how that goes (if disaster, address LT strong in 2021).

 

The wildcard in all of this is how does Haskins do with limited "high end" talent on offense. Hopefully you can stopgap LT for a year just enough to keep him upright. I think there's talent with the WRs to develop (assuming another draft pick added) ... plus a young TE to mix with the veterans brought in ... gives Haskins enough support to show whether or not he's the guy. He certainly did it in the last 2 games with less talent and a depleted OL.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Free agency has me thinking we trade out of #2.

 

 

Patience my friend. It the draft was next week I would agree. There are way too many holes in the roster.

However, there is plenty of time. They are loading up with solid backups which we have not always had. There will be numerous players that will be released as we move closer to the draft and the team is a nice spot cap wise. Also at some point the TW adventure will find closure leaving the team with needed draft capital, a needed player or both. IMO there will also be another trade of a Def front 7 player that do not really fit RR's vision. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Quez Watkins.  Had sick numbers last year, yards, YPR, etc.  He ran a 4.35 40.  Haskins' wheel house IMO is throwing in the 10-19 range and Watkins grades a 88.2 via PFF in that area.  And for those who are stuck on seeing production for multiple years, he's done that, too   He had 9 yards after catch which is a sick number, one of the tops in this receiver group. 

 

He's fast with moves in open field.  He's 6 foot but skinny and I doubt he beats press easy in the NFL.  So probably best playing slot or as a weapon with end arounds sweeps, etc.  He seems to track the ball well.  He's a mediocre run blocker, willing, but not physical.  I couldn't find a lot of tape on him but from what I saw he played slot and Z.   He actually physically reminds me of Paul Richardson, so I think the dude needs to put on 10 pounds.  He can also return kicks.  Explosive. 

 

In the late rounds, I wouldn't mind this dude. 

 

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Free agency has me thinking we trade out of #2.

 

 

I don't think so. With the virus and the inability for teams to bring guys in and check them out I think the safe picks get made. Just my guess. We will take Chase Young for sure and move on from there. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I have been diving in the 2rd tier so to speak of the TE's some more (post Trautman, Kmet, Albert O, Claypool).  Guys I'd take in the 5th round range.  I like Brycen Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, (still confused about Hunter Bryant with the weight gain and loss of speed but maybe him).  They all have upside but also some obvious flaws.

 

I was rewatching Asiasi and he might be the safest TE to take in that next tier range.  He's not really great at anyone thing.  For example, he's not as explosive out of his breaks as Hopkins or Harrison Bryant.  He's not the blocker that Trautman is.  But IMO he's decent at everything.  He's a good receiver.  He's a decent blocker.  

 

I just dived into some of his PFF numbers and found.  He has one of the best TE ratings for medium range passes, which I think is Haskins' wheel house. Scores a sick 95.3 rating for 10-19 yards. I showcase here some medium range passes.  He had one of the highest run blocking grades, not a great grade but a good one, 68.   He has one of the highest aggregate receiving grades: 79.3.

 

He also is a decent athlete.  He's a big dude.  Looks the part.  4.73 40. 1.61 10 YD.    I watched him before but rewatching him this morning, I like him more than I did on 2nd thought.  And he might be the safest (low bust chance) guy to take after the top 4 TEs in this draft IMO.   For a big guy he doesn't look stiff.  I wouldn't say dynamic either.  But somewhere in between.   They moved him around, played some H back in the mix. 

  

He's #86, I showcased a couple of blocks. 

 

 

[KDawg]

Yup I’m high on Asiasi’s long term potential. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yup I’m high on Asiasi’s long term potential. 

 

I looked really closely at the 2019 TEs at the time which was a ballyhooed class.   IMO the 2020 group in the 3rd-5th round range isn't only just as good but IMO might even be better than that class again specifically in that range.  I see Asiasi in some mocks in the 6th-7th.  I used to think the same.  But on 2nd look I doubt he escapes the 5th.  

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I looked really closely at the 2019 TEs at the time which was a ballyhooed class.   IMO the 2020 group in the 3rd-5th round range isn't only just as good but IMO might even be better than that class again specifically in that range.  I see Asiasi in some mocks in the 6th-7th.  I used to think the same.  But on 2nd look I doubt he escapes the 5th.  

 

 

He’s a bit below other guys in overall potential just because of their ridiculous athleticism. But he is a legit tight end that can do a little of everything.

 

I compare him to Albert O, who I think will wind up being the best tight end in this group (but Trautman is the most polished prospect). He’s just a little less on everything that Albert does tight now. I think he has high potential as a blocker. A bit lower as a receiver. But he’s going to be a heck of a tight end long term I think. 
 

My favorite guys value wise are likely Albert O, Brycen Hopkins and Asiasi. 
 

Trautman is a stud and the best tight end prospect in the draft and I’d love to have him, but using a high third on him is tough with so much else that could be on the board.

[KDawg]

Double post.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He’s a bit below other guys in overall potential just because of their ridiculous athleticism. But he is a legit tight end that can do a little of everything.

 

I compare him to Albert O, who I think will wind up being the best tight end in this group (but Trautman is the most polished prospect). He’s just a little less on everything that Albert does tight now. I think he has high potential as a blocker. A bit lower as a receiver. But he’s going to be a heck of a tight end long term I think. 
 

My favorite guys value wise are likely Albert O, Brycen Hopkins and Asiasi. 
 

Trautman is a stud and the best tight end prospect in the draft and I’d love to have him, but using a high third on him is tough with so much else that could be on the board.

 

It's pretty rare that I have the exact same view of a position with someone else but yeah those are my guys, too.  Trautman is my favorite.   Hopkins IMO is potentially the most explosive of the bunch where he can stretch the field, quick get off, I wish he was a better blocker but he's at least a willing blocker.  Harrison to me is of the same cloth of Hopkins and a better blocker than him albeit I don't love his blocking.  But I'd probably take Hopkins a hair over Harrison.  As for Albert O, like you, I like his blocking better than most.   I noticed PFF gave him a pedestrian grade on that front.   Like Hopkins, he can threaten an offense deeper down field than the standard TE.   He has really nice size and athleticism for that size. 

 

I do like Kmet, too.  He's young, 20 years old.  Good size and athleticism.  He's inconsistent as a blocker but a willing blocker with good size and will to become good at it IMO.

 

I recall Logan Paulsen in a Keim podcast really touted Asiasi as a good dude who works hard.   He knows him, worked out with him, etc.  I think he has a lower bust potential than some of the other TEs. 

 

Haskins sweet spot seems to be intermediate throws in the middle of the field -- up the seam, which is a good route for the typical TE.  I actually don't think Haskins is that hot at out routes in the flat -- which is a route that some TEs tend to thrive on, too. 

 

Looking at the best intermediate pass catchers among the TEs according to PFF

 

1.  Colby Parkinson 96.8  (oddly his overall receiving grade isn't that hot but this range is his sweet spot)

2.  Devin Asiasi 95.3

3.  Harrison Bryant 94.1

4.  Adam Trautman 92.6 

 

Kmet is decent at 87, Hopkins 88.

 

To me Parkinson is a poor man's Asiasi.   Parkinson to me does everything OK -- not hot, not terrible IMO.  He is supposedly a high character guy.  I wouldn't hate them taking him but I'd do it really late in the draft. 

[KDawg]

Parkinson’s plus is his size. He’s enormous. An absolute unit. I have a hard time dropping him too far down my rankings because he is a specimen and a decent tight end. He’s a high potential guy with a lower starting point than many of the others.

 

I don’t love PFF. I think they’re wrong quite often. I think they have some things that they do well. I think grading blocking is not one of those things. I also think they struggle to find a way to correlate intangibles in their rankings (which how would they?) and through no fault of their own, it makes their followers run amok with their ratings without contextualizing them. 
 

Things like body positioning aren’t accounted for. And I’m not sure how you put a numeric value on slip blocks, etc.

 

PFF ratings have a place. But people lean on them too much. I think you’re on the same page there that they are good for gauging a general sense of a prospect or player but not the end all be all.

 

And when they’re used like that I’m okay with them. 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Jackson is solid.

In fairness to DeVito his OL just wasn't that good, he was under continuous pressure. None-the-less, he wasn't as good as expected or needed. Things may not be any better this year as Cuse loses many of their top players.

I expected Cuse to be much better in 2019, but I struggle not to fall hard for the Cuse when they build a bit of momentum.

[volsmet]

More Quez dispenser 

 

On 1/30/2020 at 1:32 AM, volsmet said:

Quez Watkins

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Parkinson’s plus is his size. He’s enormous. An absolute unit. I have a hard time dropping him too far down my rankings because he is a specimen and a decent tight end. He’s a high potential guy with a lower starting point than many of the others.

 

I don’t love PFF. I think they’re wrong quite often. I think they have some things that they do well. I think grading blocking is not one of those things. I also think they struggle to find a way to correlate intangibles in their rankings (which how would they?) and through no fault of their own, it makes their followers run amok with their ratings without contextualizing them. 
 

Things like body positioning aren’t accounted for. And I’m not sure how you put a numeric value on slip blocks, etc.

 

PFF ratings have a place. But people lean on them too much. I think you’re on the same page there that they are good for gauging a general sense of a prospect or player but not the end all be all.

 

And when they’re used like that I’m okay with them. 

 

Yeah I look at PFF usually after I evaluate a player not before.  But they can do some things I can't.  For example I don't have access to every college game where I can access a player's catch rate in one range of the field versus another.  And sometimes it's interesting for me to look at a dude's stats across the board, all in one place.  Right now the PFF draft guide is the only outfit doing that.  But I don't take them as gospel.  For example they rate Harrison Bryant as a great blocker and for me as much as I like him as a player i don't see him as a great blocker at all.   So I take it with a grain of salt.  

 

As for Colby Parkinson, I gave a longish scouting report on him months back.  IMO he's OK but don't love him.  As for his size, you'd have to mean his height because otherwise there are bigger TEs than him.   I wouldn't say he's lanky but doesn't look to me super muscular either.  Asiasi, Kmet, Trautman, Albert O, Pinkney, are all bigger dudes as for their weight.  Parkinson also doesn't have long arms and has small hands.   So with him it's really his height that makes him enormous -- nothing else. 

 

If its size, then it's Kmet who is the impressive one in this mix IMO.  He's just an inch shorter than Parkinson but weighs 10 pounds more, has bigger hands, longer arms and is a better athlete any way you cut it than Parkinson and by a decent margin too -- speed, broad jump, vertical, etc. 

 

I am not saying you are suggesting otherwise as to Kmet.  My issue with Parkinson is for a dude with his size he doesn't always play like a dude that big if that makes sense.   I think he brings some physicality to his game but nothing special in that department.   He's nothing special with YAC or contested catches IMO.  He's an OK blocker IMO but not great and doesn't play with a mean streak.  

 

When I watch Trautman for example, the dude plays like an animal.  Parkinson not so much.  But he's not really bad at anything.  IMO he's an OK blocker.  OK hands.  OK at just about everything.  If I had to use the word "solid" about any of the TEs in this class to me that dude would be Parkinson.  Asiasi IMO on the other hand is also consistent but a peg higher than OK at everything, I find Asiasi good at just about everything albeit not great. 

[Rolo Tomasie]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I look at PFF usually after I evaluate a player not before.  But they can do some things I can't.  For example I don't have access to every college game where I can access a player's catch rate in one range of the field versus another.  And sometimes it's interesting for me to look at a dude's stats across the board, all in one place.  Right now the PFF draft guide is the only outfit doing that.  But I don't take them as gospel.  For example they rate Harrison Bryant as a great blocker and for me as much as I like him as a player i don't see him as a great blocker at all.   So I take it with a grain of salt.  

 

As for Colby Parkinson, I gave a longish scouting report on him months back.  IMO he's OK but don't love him.  As for his size, you'd have to mean his height because otherwise there are bigger TEs than him.   I wouldn't say he's lanky but doesn't look to me super muscular either.  Asiasi, Kmet, Trautman, Albert O, Pinkney, are all bigger dudes as for their weight.  Parkinson also doesn't have long arms and has small hands.   So with him it's really his height that makes him enormous -- nothing else. 

 

If its size, then it's Kmet who is the impressive one in this mix IMO.  He's just an inch shorter than Parkinson but weighs 10 pounds more, has bigger hands, longer arms and is a better athlete any way you cut it than Parkinson and by a decent margin too -- speed, broad jump, vertical, etc. 

 

I am not saying you are suggesting otherwise as to Kmet.  My issue with Parkinson is for a dude with his size he doesn't always play like a dude that big if that makes sense.   I think he brings some physicality to his game but nothing special in that department.   He's nothing special with YAC or contested catches IMO.  He's an OK blocker IMO but not great and doesn't play with a mean streak.  

 

When I watch Trautman for example, the dude plays like an animal.  Parkinson not so much.  But he's not really bad at anything.  IMO he's an OK blocker.  OK hands.  OK at just about everything.  If I had to use the word "solid" about any of the TEs in this class to me that dude would be Parkinson.  Asiasi IMO on the other hand is also consistent but a peg higher than OK at everything, I find Asiasi good at just about everything albeit not great. 

My take on a couple of these TEs differs from most of you guys. In Trautman I see a guy who is definitely driven, motivated, an animal....but I also see a guy who may have already maxed out his potential. In other words I don't see a lot of room for growth. I think what he is now is what he will be. Not super athletic, but an effort guy. I think he did great at some specific drills at the combine because he may have been the most prepared for them and practiced at them. But he's not naturally fast and his hands aren't perfect.....he just works his ass off. 

 

Contrast that with Kmet....I see a very young kid with an almost perfect TE frame, some proven ability, and a LOT of athletic upside for improvement still, with physical maturation and professional level coaching and conditioning. I think he gets measurably better than he is now.

 

I didn't always agree with McCloughan but he was right to look at players' relative ages and assess will they continue to grow and improve.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Speaking of PFF, they've been pimping the heck out of Geno Stone for months, I guess i need to get to watching him eventually. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

My take on a couple of these TEs differs from most of you guys. In Trautman I see a guy who is definitely driven, motivated, an animal....but I also see a guy who may have already maxed out his potential. In other words I don't see a lot of room for growth. I think what he is now is what he will be. Not super athletic, but an effort guy. I think he did great at some specific drills at the combine because he may have been the most prepared for them and practiced at them. But he's not naturally fast and his hands aren't perfect.....he just works his ass off. 

 

Contrast that with Kmet....I see a very young kid with an almost perfect TE frame, some proven ability, and a LOT of athletic upside for improvement still, with professional level coaching and conditioning. I think he gets measurably better than he is now.

 

I didn't always agree with McCloughan but he was right to look at players' relative ages and assess will they continue to grow and improve.

 

 

I've probably pushed Kmet more than anyone on the board.  I've gone back and forth between Trautman and Kmet as my favorite.    I think I've landed finally on Trautman as #1 but Kmet isn't that far behind.  Since you are a Kmet guy too, I'll just focus here on Trautman.  And i am perfectly ok with anyone's take of Kmet being the best, like I said I've pushed Kmet I believe more than anyone here.  I think Kmet will be a good player.  And yeah I've been selling him being 20 years old as part of the selling point, he's a work in progress, so I agree with that, too.  But I think you might be underestimating Trautman... 

 

Trautman IMO is more than just an effort guy.  If I recall he had the best 10 yd splits for TE's at 1.57 which beat even Albert O and yes it beat Kmet, too.  His 3 cone split, beat every TE and heck if I recall every WR but one.  And that's for a dude who is 6 "5 and weighs 255 pounds.  While he isn't a stud athlete he's at least a good athlete for his position.   He has the highest receiving grade and 2nd best blocking grade from PFF among all TEs.     He's IMO the most complete TE. 

 

Ironically, for me at least the McCloughan model if anything which elevate Trautman I believe over Kmet.  I spent 2 hours for McCloughan one day, won an auction, it was super cool, and he got into the type of players he likes.  I documented that on this thread many times year back and I gave my take of his take on players.   Trautman to me is a poster child McCloughan type of player.     McCloughan wasn't hung up on age.  He preferred drafting seniors over juniors.  Scherff wasn't a young puppy when he drafted him.  He was 23 years old.   Trautman is 22.   

 

When we walked by a hall at Redskins Park there were a series of posters of Redskins players hung up on the wall, McCloughan stopped next to the Scherff one and said that guy is going to a great player (this was in 2016).  Scherff is the guy he singled out among the players.  He likes dudes who are tough and play with attitude.  That to me is Trautman to a tee.  I like Kmet but that wouldn't be him so much.

 

Trautman IMO would bring some old school 1980s Hogs attitude to that blocking position in a way that I don't think Kmet would bring albeit I do like Kmet. 

 

 

[Rolo Tomasie]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've probably pushed Kmet more than anyone on the board.  I've gone back and forth between Trautman and Kmet as my favorite.    I think I've landed finally on Trautman as #1 but Kmet isn't that far behind.  Since you are a Kmet guy too, I'll just focus here on Trautman.  And i am perfectly ok with anyone's take of Kmet being the best, like I said I've pushed Kmet I believe more than anyone here.  I think Kmet will be a good player.  And yeah I've been selling him being 20 years old as part of the selling point, he's a work in progress, so I agree with that, too.  But I think you might be underestimating Trautman... 

 

Trautman IMO is more than just an effort guy.  If I recall he had the best 10 yd splits for TE's at 1.57 which beat even Albert O and yes it beat Kmet, too.  His 3 cone split, beat every TE and heck if I recall every WR but one.  And that's for a dude who is 6 "5 and weighs 255 pounds.  While he isn't a stud athlete he's at least a good athlete for his position.   He has the highest receiving grade and 2nd best blocking grade from PFF among all TEs.     He's IMO the most complete TE. 

 

Ironically, for me at least the McCloughan model if anything which elevate Trautman I believe over Kmet.  I spent 2 hours for McCloughan one day, won an auction, it was super cool, and he got into the type of players he likes.  I documented that on the thread many times back then and I gave my take of his take on players.   Trautman to me is a poster child McCloughan type of player.     McCloughan wasn't hung up on age.  He preferred drafting seniors then juniors.  Scherff wasn't a young puppy when he drafted him.  He was 23 years old.   Trautman is 22.   

 

When we walked by a hall at Redskins Park there were a series of posters of Redskins players hung up on the wall, McCloughan stopped next to the Scherff one and said that guy is going to a great player (this was in 2016).  Scherff is the guy he singled out among the players.  He likes dudes who are tough and play with attitude.  That to me is Trautman is that to a tee.  I like Kmet but that wouldn't be him so much.

 

Trautman IMO would bring some old school 1980s Hogs attitude to that blocking position in a way that I don't think Kmet would bring albeit I do like Kmet. 

 

 

Interesting insight. I thought it was McCloughan who was a big "age" guy but I am probably confused on that. Anyway, I am a believer in that and it's why I was high on Payne who was young and I think will still get better, and also Haskins and Kmet. Thanks for the insight though.

[KDawg]

My issue with Kmet is his blocking. I’m just not big on it. He can block, sure. And he can run a variety of routes. Stems well, moves well. Big time athlete with, like @Rolo Tomasie says a lot of potential.

 

I agree that Trautman is closer to his max potential and Kmet, AO, Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, Asiasi, Moss, etc. have more room to grow. 
 

I think it’s clear, no matter how you spin it, that there is a clear top tier of tight ends and it’s Trautman, Kmet and AO. I like Kmet as a top 3 TE prospect, without a doubt. He should be good in this league. But he’s not among my personal favorites of the class. 
 

My favorites don’t always coincide with who I think is best. AO, Trautman, Asiasi, Moss, Hopkins are guys I like a lot. But I wouldn’t touch the bottom 3 I just named before Kmet. 

[skinzplay]

The Bengals are being uncharacteristically active in FA, especially on defense. If I didn't know better, I'd think they were setting that defense up for something special on draft day........

[DWinzit]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My issue with Kmet is his blocking. I’m just not big on it. He can block, sure. And he can run a variety of routes. Stems well, moves well. Big time athlete with, like @Rolo Tomasie says a lot of potential.

 

I agree that Trautman is closer to his max potential and Kmet, AO, Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, Asiasi, Moss, etc. have more room to grow. 
 

I think it’s clear, no matter how you spin it, that there is a clear top tier of tight ends and it’s Trautman, Kmet and AO. I like Kmet as a top 3 TE prospect, without a doubt. He should be good in this league. But he’s not among my personal favorites of the class. 
 

My favorites don’t always coincide with who I think is best. AO, Trautman, Asiasi, Moss, Hopkins are guys I like a lot. But I wouldn’t touch the bottom 3 I just named before Kmet. 

I believe I speak for most of us that Traut and Kmet are the top 2 and that the skins would be much improved moving forward with either on the roster.

 

Beyond the top two we all have A O and others in varying order.

 

I am thrilled to read and discuss with competent posters like these TE posts. You are all open eyes to the blocking capabilities of the options. So many ignore or devalue this important yet boring aspect of the position! Guys like Asiasi and Hopkins deserve these accolades that years ago would not have received. I may have these 2 higher than you for that reason and downgraded others because quite frankly, they don't do it for what seems to be RR's plan.  Other guys I overvalue are Pinkney and Deguara to a lesser degree. 

 

I do not love Parkinson but find these posts fascinating and will review him more.

 

Again thanks for the great discussions in this thread!

[KDawg]

Anyone have good video of Ashtyn Davis? I feel like the stuff on YouTube doesn’t do him justice. It’s hard to watch individual games for safeties because of how often they aren’t in the damn frame.

[DWinzit]

15 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

The Bengals are being uncharacteristically active in FA, especially on defense. If I didn't know better, I'd think they were setting that defense up for something special on draft day........

I was thinking earlier, everyone has them selecting Burrow.

 

What if they traded out and the new team selected Young or Tua. What then would the Redskins do? Burrow??? I'd trade back 

 

I believe there is zero chance they would select Tua. RR dealt with an athletic injury prone QB for years and I don't think he wants to do it again. That's why he is in on the two current QB's.