2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I have your first 4 as the top tier of RB's. They should all be gone by the beginning of the 3rd at the latest. Taylor did have some fumbling issues which drops him for me.

 

The rest it depends on team needs. You have Perine in the same slot as I do.It is slightly higher than many lists I have seen. He isn't overly exciting but can do it all. I found him really good picking up blitzers and blocking. So many just cannot do this well. Through your studies, who else looked good with this?

 

Have you reviewed Antonio Gibson? He isn't a straight RB or WR so not sure how he stacks up for you. I find him very intriguing. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I have your first 4 as the top tier of RB's. They should all be gone by the beginning of the 3rd at the latest. Taylor did have some fumbling issues which drops him for me.

 

The rest it depends on team needs. You have Perine in the same slot as I do.It is slightly higher than many lists I have seen. He isn't overly exciting but can do it all. I found him really good picking up blitzers and blocking. So many just cannot do this well. Through your studies, who else looked good with this?

 

Have you reviewed Antonio Gibson? He isn't a straight RB or WR so not sure how he stacks up for you. I find him very intriguing. 

Darrynton Evans is a similar guy to Perine. Not a lot of film on him protecting, but the bits I saw made him seem capable. 
 

Cam Akers is similar. I think he needs more time with the protection, but I’m not enamored with him. 

 

I liked Rico Dowdle and Patrick Taylor Jr in that role.

Ke’Shawn Vaughn as well. 
 

Im totally unsure what to make if Gibson.

 

[DWinzit]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Darrynton Evans is a similar guy to Perine. Not a lot of film on him protecting, but the bits I saw made him seem capable. 
 

Cam Akers is similar. I think he needs more time with the protection, but I’m not enamored with him. 

 

I liked Rico Dowdle and Patrick Taylor Jr in that role.

Ke’Shawn Vaughn as well. 
 

Im totally unsure what to make if Gibson.

 

I don't mind Akers. For some reason I wasn't that fond of Taylor or Evans.

 

My worry with your new boy Dowdle, lol, is he gets banged up.

 

I can understand your Gibson response but like him as a late rounder.

 

CEH and Dobbins are my top two.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

It’s started. I’ve watched most of the main guys. But some of the mid range guys I haven’t seen yet.

The guy from Wyoming I'm curious about. Late round guy.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I don't mind Akers. For some reason I wasn't that fond of Taylor or Evans.

 

My worry with your new boy Dowdle, lol, is he gets banged up.

 

I can understand your Gibson response but like him as a late rounder.

 

CEH and Dobbins are my top two.

I like Dowdle as a back but share the same concerns. 
 

Taylor is an acquired taste. I went back and watched him three times and liked him more each time. He is missing the “it” factor, though.

 

I think Evans is electric.

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The guy from Wyoming I'm curious about. Late round guy.

 
Logan Wilson? Gave him a cursory glance but nothing serious so far. 

[DWinzit]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I spent a lot of time on certain TE's mostly months back.  I hate ranking guys based purely on reputation versus watching them so I'll just focus on the ones I watched so I left some out.  I don't think any of them would be reaches in the round I lay out and would be more than happy to grab anyone of them commensurate to those rounds. 

 

The best 2 (I wouldn't hate taking either in the third)

 

Adam Trautman:  I gave two longish reviews of him already.  In short, he's a really consistent blocker and plays with a mean spirt type a way that you don't really find from anyone else in this draft class. aside from maybe Woerner.  And as a pass catcher, he's inconsistent but a fun watch because he plays with a feistiness as for contested catches and YAC.  Seems like he'd bring an added locker room fun component to him reminiscent of Cooley in that front. 

 

Cole Kmet:  He's 250 pounds plus and is a good athlete for his size.   He's only 20 years old.  He's inconsistent as a blocker but has his moments where he's good and is determined to get good at that part of the game. He separates well and has good hands.

 

The next two (I'd take in the early 4th)

 

Albert O:  Aside from Claypool, he's the best athlete in the mix. I agree with @KDawg that he's a good blocker.  I said so myself in my own review of him. Though some disagree with us on it, some knock his blocking ability.   He was a much better producer when he had Drew Lock throwing him the ball last year.   For a dude with his speed, he doesn't always look that quick especially for out routes in the flat.  Brycen Hopkins for example isn't as fast but seems to have the quicker first steps where he looks quicker coming off the line of scrimmage.  Albert O seems to need to gain some momentum to pick up his speed and then fly -- i saw him get deep on a play where that was showcased. 

 

Chase Claypool:  if you turn him into a TE his athleticism are freakish levels.  But watching him as a blocker playing receiver, he's good at it, not great.  So I gather he'd need to put another 10 pounds on to adjust to the more blocking driven TE spot.  He IMO is a decent receiver so if they can figure out his size-blocking, he's intriguing.  

 

The next two (late 4th-early 5th)

 

I wouldn't be reluctant to draft either dude in this range.  The 4th-5th is typically all about projections versus drafting borderline sure fire studs.   And Hopkins and Harrison IMO are intriguing talents in that range and have good value IMO in this range.  I suspect though they might go earlier. 

 

A.  Brycen Hopkins is a dynamic playmaker and can separate. He has good size and he ran a 4.66.  And he moves like a dude who runs 4.6. If you watch his get off from the line of scrimmage, the dude looks like Desean Jackson compared to our TEs.   His hands can be inconsistent. He's a below average blocker.  He is a willing blocker though.  If I had to pick the one TE I like more than most draft geeks -- its probably Hopkins. 

 

B.  Harrison Bryant.  Big time producer.  Zierlein compares him to Kittle.  I disagree.  I like Harrison more than most but not to Zierlein's degree.  Zierlein likes him as a blocker.  I wouldn't go that far.  But I agree he's better than his reputation on that front.   He's feisty as a blocker but he doesn't IMO maintain his blocks well.   As a pass catcher, he seems to have decent hands, decent at separating and he's somewhat dynamic in open field.  I slightly prefer Hopkins over him. 

 

Hunter Bryant confuses the heck out of me.  He's arguably the best pass catcher in this class.  But he doesn't have the size to be a good blocker IMO.  Yet, he bulked up for the combine and then ran slow.  

 

6th-7th round

 

Deguara, Sullivan, Parkinson, Breeland, Pickney, Woerner,  I don't feel like rehashing my prior reviews on them.  I am OK with anyone of these guys for different reasons.  Parkinson might be the most well rounded within that group.  I like Woerner and Pickney's blocking.

 

I am not a Thaddeus Moss guy.  As for @KDawg comment that he's a better blocker than given credit for.  He seems though actually to be given good credit for his blocking from most draft geeks. I agree with that, he's a decent blocker.  Certainly a willing blocker.  He has good hands.  But IMO he isn't dynamic and isn't good at separating.  He looks slow and with him having a plate in his foot and some other new foot fracture -- no thank you from me.  

I like the way you ranked these guys by round and beginning in the 3rd . I think that's where they should be even though I believe Trautman won't make it out of the second.

 

Bryant, Moss and Claypool all confuse me.

 

I like Pickney a little more than others.

 

I really think they trade for a starting TE and may just take a shot at a late rounder

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I like Dowdle as a back but share the same concerns. 
 

Taylor is an acquired taste. I went back and watched him three times and liked him more each time. He is missing the “it” factor, though.

 

I think Evans is electric.

I will dip into the Taylor and Evans vault again then to see if I gain the taste!

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

I really think they trade for a starting TE and may just take a shot at a late rounder

 

Not sure who they trade for?  I am not sure if Howard is on the trading block anymore.  Njoku maybe -- but listening to a Cleveland reporter describe him made me pause including according to him that Njoku has no interest in blocking.   We know that story with some of our own TEs. I love Jordan Reed as a receiver but his blocking left something to be desired -- Njoku is no Jordan Reed at least yet as a receiver and he seems to be described to be Reed like as a blocker. 

 

Personally I think the depth in this draft at TE is good.  Actually even slightly above average as to depth.  The problem with the draft is the lack of top end, A lister types.  And I know I am sort of an outlier on this thread on that point.  But there are draft geeks who agree with this point (and some who do not) so its not that obscure.  It's a tough point to finesse in a discussion because how can a draft that lacks A listers have above average depth?  Well, that's the weirdness of the TE position in this draft.  I am not on an island on this point.  Heck i posted here the grades from scout.com of the 2020 TE grades versus the 2019 TE class.  And once you get past the three A listers from 2019, the 2020 TEs grade higher than the 2019 guys. 

 

I would take Adam Trautman in the third round this year over Jose Oliver who was taking in the 2019 3rd round.  I'd take Brycen Hopkins in the 5th over 2019 5th rounder Zach Gentry, any day of the week.  On and On.  And I dived pretty deep into the 2019 TE class, I watched a lot of guys and commented on them.   If they don't sign another TE in FA, I'd be very surprised they don't take one in this draft.  And the odds that they find a good one in the middle rounds IMO is just as good this as the average draft.       The key is take no one in the first two rounds.  Once you get past those rounds, this class (3rd-7th rounds) hangs in very well IMO with previous drafts with some exceptions. 

 

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/freddie-kitchens-david-njoku-is-a-work-in-progress-must-become-more-consistent-for-browns/95-d1f19947-8992-40ee-a7ad-4511284b46ff

What I’d like to see, and I’ll say it right now, ‘Improve your run blocking,’” Dorsey said. 

 

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2020/02/10/give-cleveland-browns-david-njoku-a-shot-as-wide-receiver/

David Njoku has struggled to become a traditional tight end for the Cleveland Browns, but he may be better suited as a wide receiver.... Kitchens and his offensive coordinator, Todd Monken, seemed to feel that his deficiencies as a blocker outweighed his value as a receiver. 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure who they trade for?  I am not sure if Howard is on the trading block anymore.  Njoku maybe -- but listening to a Cleveland reporter describe him made me pause including according to him that Njoku has no interest in blocking.   We know that story with some of our own TEs. I love Jordan Reed as a receiver but his blocking left something to be desired -- Njoku is no Jordan Reed at least yet as a receiver and he seems to be described to be Reed like as a blocker. 

 

Personally I think the depth in this draft at TE is good.  Actually even slightly above average as to depth.  The problem with the draft is the lack of top end, A lister types.

 

I am not certain who, would need to review rosters to see what teams have multiple talented TE's.

I was surprised to see those Njoku comments as I had assumed he was decent as a receiver and blocker. Maybe he needs a change of scenery 

[BleedBNG]

 

 

[volsmet]

Tre Walker

 

 

TRE WALKERWR, SAN JOSE STATE SPARTANS

ESPN's Anthony Treash lists San Jose State senior WR Tre Walker as the "sleeper" of the 2020 wideouts for the coming season.

We have written about Walker a lot over the last two years, mainly because if we're being honest, we haven't had many other Spartans to do so about. "Walker is "only" 5-foot-11 and 180 pounds but has made some of the best back-shoulder grabs over that period," Treash writes. "Since 2018, Walker has caught eight of his 10 contested back-shoulder targets, leading FBS." At the very least, Walker is someone who deserves to be monitored.

SOURCE: ESPN

Mar 22, 2020, 6:54 PM ET

•  

 

 

[DWinzit]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Taylor is an acquired taste. I went back and watched him three times and liked him more each time. He is missing the “it” factor, though.

 

I think Evans is electric.

Okay KDawg, I reviewed these two again....I like Taylor slightly more but Evans, I gained more respect for him. He has some real potential in a later round!

[KDawg]

Just now, DWinzit said:

Okay KDawg, I reviewed these two again....I like Taylor slightly more but Evans, I gained more respect for him. He has some real potential in a later round!

 

Yeah, Taylor is uninspiring to watch, but he's boring good. He doesn't have COD skills really, and he isn't going to wow you with his side to side speed and agility. But he is able to build up steam moving linearly and has good vision to avoid downfield tackles and uses his blockers well. He can catch a little bit and he can protect. He's a solid all around back, but he doesn't do anything that makes him pop off the screen.

 

I like boring guys. Isaiah Wilson, the OT from Georgia, is another boring dude. He doesn't stand out, but he doesn't get beaten. I'd take that on my team any day of the week. The problem is, you also need guys that make your eyes pop out of your head.

 

Darrynton Evans is a dude that can do that. I think he and Booger, Jr. are vastly underrated prospects by the overall draftnik community, though Boogs gets some love here.

 

Going to go get my workout in and sit down and watch some more stuff today. Lock down another position group. I'm feeling defense today. Either DTs or LBs. We'll see. 

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Yeah, Taylor is uninspiring to watch, but he's boring good. He doesn't have COD skills really, and he isn't going to wow you with his side to side speed and agility. But he is able to build up steam moving linearly and has good vision to avoid downfield tackles and uses his blockers well. He can catch a little bit and he can protect. He's a solid all around back, but he doesn't do anything that makes him pop off the screen.

 

I like boring guys. Isaiah Wilson, the OT from Georgia, is another boring dude. He doesn't stand out, but he doesn't get beaten. I'd take that on my team any day of the week. The problem is, you also need guys that make your eyes pop out of your head.

 

Darrynton Evans is a dude that can do that. I think he and Booger, Jr. are vastly underrated prospects by the overall draftnik community, though Boogs gets some love here.

 

Going to go get my workout in and sit down and watch some more stuff today. Lock down another position group. I'm feeling defense today. Either DTs or LBs. We'll see. 

Boogs gets some love elsewhere too but not the others. If Taylor was a late rounder it wouldn't be the worst move. I don't mind boring guys at all. I am on the Evans wagon more now.

If Wilson or Cleveland are selected they would be impressive adds. They are two standouts that were under the radar but seem to have picked up some notoriety recently.

I think many of us can't wait to hear your LB report! 

[Anselmheifer]

On 3/21/2020 at 5:50 PM, KDawg said:

 

So I said Kmet was a little overrated. And I believe that. But he's still pretty damn good. Comes in at 3 for me. Keep in mind, this is pre-Senior Bowl for guys like Trautman. Trautman just looked real natural in the stuff that's online for him. Receiver and a blocker. Senior Bowl will likely change my opinion on him in some way or form.

 

But my #2 is my story. Albert O. Dude is a willing blocker. And not only that, he's good at it. He may be the best blocker that I watched. He's an okay receiving option, fairly athletic, smooth. But his blocking... I loved it. 

 

Thaddeus is a good blocker, better than given credit for. But he's an awkward blocker.

 

Matthew Wilkerson is freakin' huge, man. And he's a good receiver. He stands out against low level competition. There is literally nothing I can find of him blocking, so I was hesitant to put him as high as I did. 

 

The surprise for me... Well, two surprises... Hunter Bryant did NOT impress. I think he looked bad as a blocker and he plays smaller than his size indicates. But I didn't know Dominick Wood-Anderson was so explosive at the LOS as a blocker. He was a fun one to watch. @volsmet should be proud. 

 

Did you make that chart? I really like Albert O as an option for us in the 4th or later. I'd rather have Albert O in the 4th or 5th than Trautman in the 2nd, which is where I suspect he'll go. 

 

 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Did you make that chart? I really like Albert O as an option for us in the 4th or later. I'd rather have Albert O in the 4th or 5th than Trautman in the 2nd, which is where I suspect he'll go. 

 

 

Yes, I made it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

 

 

SIP...you posted this tweet. 

The thing I've been thinking about Akeem Davis Gaither is, how similar he may be to Thomas Davis as an athlete. Same height. Similar weight and arm length. They look similarly explosive to me. I could imagine a scenario where we draft ADG and groom him behind Thomas Davis for a year.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/akeem-davis-gaither?id=32194441-5681-6473-4bbb-eb231ca69181

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7088

 

 

[ThePackisback]

I think the Skins aren’t far off from winning that division. You just need a good draft.

[KDawg]

Akeem Davis Gaither is, in my mind, a Thomas Davis clone as it pertains to playing style. He is an absolutely ideal target for us. His inclusion, even as a rookie, would completely turn my opinion on our linebacker corps. Him/Davis outside, Pierre-Louis, SDH in the wings... Hopefully move Holcomb inside with Bostic. Now that's a much better unit. 

 

Working on inside backers now, then I'll hit outsides.

 

My early nugget: I don't like Troy Dye. At all. He's going to be really low on my list.

[Anselmheifer]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Akeem Davis Gaither is, in my mind, a Thomas Davis clone as it pertains to playing style. He is an absolutely ideal target for us. His inclusion, even as a rookie, would completely turn my opinion on our linebacker corps. Him/Davis outside, Pierre-Louis, SDH in the wings... Hopefully move Holcomb inside with Bostic. Now that's a much better unit. 

 

Working on inside backers now, then I'll hit outsides.

 

My early nugget: I don't like Troy Dye. At all. He's going to be really low on my list.

 

I think with Akeem Davis Gaither we'd be fine on the outside, but we still have no Sam, unless Foster is going to play that spot, and I wouldn't plan on relying on him. Honestly, I think he'd be best used as a WILL anyway. I like Cole Holcomb, but don't think he can cover. I like SDH but his history is of recurrent injury also. I think we need a minimum of two new starting LB's after this season. 

 

Is Logan Wilson really being projected in the later rounds? I think he's better than anything we currently have at the SAM position. He had a sneaky good combine. He seems instinctive and has been productive against both the run and the pass. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/logan-wilson?id=32195749-4c74-7370-743f-2000a41bbeba

 

 

[KDawg]

 

So far, I think this is the position group I am MOST opposite the draftnik community on a lot of these.

 

I separated OLB and ILBs. Will do OLBs later tonight or tomorrow. I think you can probably guess my #1-3 on that list, though

 

Again, this is pre East/West Shrine & Senior Bowl (Plan to watch both after I have my lists compiled to do a final ranking)

 

My biggest two "against the grain" rankings: Shaq Quarterman at 5, Troy Dye at 14.

 

Quarterman is just okay in coverage. Not athletic enough to get to deeper zones, but can cover the short zones with intelligence. Where he excels is his physicality. He attacks and uses his pads to create separation. He's very instinctive, maybe the most instinctive player that I watched (or among them with Harrison and Murray). He's a downhill guy that's aggressive. Very intelligent player. That allows him to get into position when his athleticism may have prevented him from doing so. One of his other downsides, though, is other than athleticism he is so aggressive in attacking blocks he sometimes loses his leverage.

 

Troy Dye... He doesn't really do anything all that well besides the fact he's a top notch athlete (and that gives him value). He plays behind his teammates to keep himself away from any blockers, then runs around them in order to make the plays he makes... way too far down field. Okay in coverage at times, but I don't think he diagnoses route concepts well. His coverage victories are entirely based on athleticism. At some point, he has value, just due to his athleticism. But the guys above him are all better actual linebackers in my opinion. 

 

Kenneth Murray is explosive and aggressive and instinctive and physical and athletic. He's the full package. He's a bit over aggressive at times. That's where Malik Harrison gains back some ground on him, but not enough to surpass him. Harrison is a similar backer to Murray, a little less athletic, a little less explosive, but plays within himself better. These two are the clear top 2.

 

Logan Wilson is EXTREMELY underrated. I watched some individual games of his on YouTube and his highlights and I don't know why more people aren't talking about this guy. He does everything. He's probably an actual better linebacker than Murray, just doesn't have the same imposing physical presence as Murray does. I was tempted to put him at 2, but Harrison won me over as I watched more and more of his film. 

 

Jordyn Brooks is a tad underrated, too. He looks enormous and plays like it. Coverage is a bit of a question with him, but the dude is an instinct machine and he will absolutely smash your face in. 

 

Mykal Walker is pretty good, too. He is just a linebacker. Block sheds, instincts, etc. He isn't as "jump off the page" as some of the guys in front of him, but he's a solid football player. 

 

Azur Kamara I struggled with. Dude played a lot of DE/hybrid stand up DE/LB. I think he's going to be a better fit as a 3-4 guy. Big, strong, athletic. He's an upside projection. But I think I'd draft Olson before him in our situation. But this is a board for total value, at least as far as my opinion. 

 

Evan Weaver seems to do exactly what is asked of him. And not much else. There is value in that. I have him higher than, say, Olson because he's routine. Olson was around the ball a lot in college but there are questions about whether he can do it against better teams/professional talent. If he can, he is a much better prospect than Weaver. Weaver is likely a special teams ace/fill in guy for a few years at minimum. I can see him sliding on my later boards. 

 

Dante Olson is lower, #13. But he just produces. I'm not sure what traits he possesses that makes him a good backer, but he is ALWAYS around the football. Not that athletic, not that fast... Just a big burly man that likes to hit people. I think that's what it is... Contact brings him to the ball. 

[Anselmheifer]

I wonder if the fact that we haven't signed a backup QB has any meaning for the draft 

[volsmet]

Winona state, Nick Pridgeon

 

 

[KDawg]

Okay, made some major amendments to the ILB list and my previously started OLB list. Watched more of both groups. Moved some guys around position wise. Focused on guys I "didn't get" and added new guys. Not going to break it all down because quite frankly I'm filmed out for today. Just wanted to make a huge dent so I can finish my initial rankings sometime this week.  I'll add a couple of notes and give my top 10-15 of LBs in total:

 

 

Some guys got moved out to the OLB spot, so new guys were found and viewed. My sleeper here... #17 on my list. Kyahva Tezino. I think he's a playmaker. Not the most athletic dude I've ever seen... But he is violent. 

 

 

I really am not a fan of Willie Gay, Jr. But again, like some other guys I didn't fall in love with right away... There's a point where he can only drop so far. 

 

Strnad is the biggest question mark. He's not a good tackler but he does everything else well. He's a high end prospect, but that tackling is enough to scare me away if I had him on my board. Just not sure how I could drop him given his ability. 

 

Top 15 Linebackers:

 

1. Isaiah Simmons

2. Kenneth Murray

3. Patrick Queen

4. Malik Harrison

5. Logan Wilson

6. Akeem Davis-Gaither

7. Zack Baun

8. Anfernee Jennings

9. Jordyn Brooks

10. Shaq Quarterman

11. Cam Gill

12. Jacob Phillips

13. Scoota Harris

14. Jordan Mack

15. Dante Olson

 

[KDawg]

I'm watching Carolina vs. Seattle. Scott Turner as OC + Kyle Allen as QB. 

 

They utilize a lot of two tight end sets, and they have their tight ends blocking a lot. It seems like a good opportunity to a guy like Sprinkle to shine as a blocker. And, I think Albert O could be a 4th round target for this team. Issue is Hentges has a ways to go to prove he's in the same world as Olsen as a receiving option. 

 

He uses a lot of jet motion, too. So Sims is going to be a big part of this offense. 

 

A Laviska Shenault would be a perfect fit, but we don't have the draft capital. Jaelan Raegor could be an option? Antonio Gibson?