2019 NFL Draft discussion thread

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

This is how I am looking at it and and Gruden was pretty much saying the same in his presser. Gruden said they had Sweat rated at 15 as well. So yeah flip the selection position and makes more sense to the fans. At the end of the day we got two good to great players in the 1st round. I am okay with this.

 

Maybe to some but not for me. I did not want a QB, period. All 4 of the QBs are flawed - Murray is easily the least flawed and IMO the only one worth a 1st rd pick. The rest would be day two in most any other draft with a normal QB class. 

 

I would still give them a D for Haskins unless they got him in the 2nd or later. I would have much preferred say Jawaan Taylor and Montez Sweat in instead of Haskins. 

 

But it is what it is. Doesn't matter now. I will root for Haskins to be awesome - I mean that sincerely no sarcasm. All I want is a good team. If he gets us there, I will be ecstatic. I am just not sure he is the right guy. 

[wilco_holland]

--

Honest qeustion

 

How many guys think Ha-skins doesn't fit Jay O because they call him slow/not mobile...and think he can't run the bootlegs because of that? 

 

Or do you have more concerns? 

[London Kev]

28 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

 

No your absolutely right - if you watch the video when he gets the call it is clear this was not a preferred destination for him.  He rolls his eyes and the female next to him recoils and puckers her lips.  Of course once they know the cameras are on its all (fake) smiles, but in his super low energy way- nothing genuine about this at all.  Everything about his body language thru the course of the evening screamed entitled bratty lazy and def. not a leader of a NFL franchise.

 

 

You're making some broad assumptions here based on a few minutes of body language, (although you seem to imply that you watched him "thru the course of the evening").

You may be 100% correct in your interpretation of course, although I'm not sure how you could have deduced that he is lazy or not a leader from his body language. Kinesics is not an exact science and context is everything.

 

Maybe he honestly thought that he was going to be the 2nd QB picked and it unsettled him a little when NY (his favourite team) took Jones. When he finally got picked it was a mixture of relief and bewilderment at not getting picked earlier.

 

It may have been that he fully expected a call from the Redskins and held up his phone to his friends with a kind of "see, I told you it would be them" gesture. The initial thrill of being picked was dimmed a little by his expectation of it. He then stood up to gather his thoughts in preparation for the interview.

 

He may even be the type of person who generally keeps their emotions in check (see Josh Doctson). He may have actually been very excited at the time, but preferred to show an outwardly calm and collected demeanor almost to the point of disinterest (for some reason, I behave like this myself sometimes).

 

If I'm honest I would have preferred him to have shown a little more emotion and look more happy at the pick. But he's a young man in a pressurised situation, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for not crying with happiness all the way to the stage.

[VaK9Trainer]

Maybe a crazy thought here, but would it be too much to pay if we gave up our #1 pick next year to move up and grab D.K. Metcalf? 

 

[SkinsGuy]

8 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

We now have 5 1st rounders and Ioannidas in our front 7. Holy ****. 

 

Yep.

 

Payne, Allen, Kerrigan, Foster, and Sweat (if he starts this season.

 

Along with Ioannidas on the line, Norman in a CB spot and Collins as a safety, this is some impressive talent on the defensive side.

 

I can't even see how Manusky can mess this up.

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, KDawg said:

A

@Skinsinparadise said that most people against Haskins wouldn't have liked the pick at 26, either. Which I understand. However, I'm not sure that's the case for a majority of people. I was never happy with Haskins. I was never not happy with Haskins. I was okay, though. But when I look at it the other way and see Sweat as 15 and Haskins as 26 I'm pretty much ecstatic. The second best quarterback in the draft (arguably) at 26 is great value.

 

Sweat is tremendous value.

 

 

 

Few points on this 😀  it means nothing IMO what the media draft geeks thinks of Haskins or for that matter any player.  With 1 exception: hype.  If you pick a guy that the media loves it feels like a party leading into the season.  So that's fun.  And Haskins will be fun from that context.  That's why I compare this some to RG3.  And I don't mean it because of how it ended with RG3 -- plenty hyped players that the media guys like work out, too.   RG3 to some media geek types was "can't miss".  That was actually Polian's quote.   And I fell for it as much as anyone.

 

The quarterback position is one of the biggest crap shoot positions in the draft.   To most of the draft media, he was the 2nd best Qb in the draft according to Kiper and comrades  But Kiper is the same guy who said he'd quit his job if Brady Quinn didn't end up a good QB -- he is wrong a lot as is a lot of these media draft geeks on QBs.  As am I wrong and most fans.  Personnel guys -- everybody.   It's tough to get Qbs right. 

 

I was very familiar with the media hype on Haskins and watched the ballyhooed Michigan game on TV in real time.  And with that backdrop, I on the draft thread months ago said Haskins is the best QB in the draft.  Then I kept hearing from different people that I respect including McCloughan in a segment and Cooley in his film review that this dude isn't what the media says he is.  Ditto some comments from those who watched him closely on the draft thread.

 

So about a week ago I sat down and watched 5 Haskins games in a row and focused on some of that criticism.  And I saw what they saw.  Haskins IMO with a clean pocket and a lot of time with big time YAC guys can kill it.  And that's the dynamic he had mostly in Ohio State.  But my concern is he's slow and more importantly his footwork is slow and his numbers drop like a rock under pressure.  In the NFL, you don't always have the Hogs giving you 4 seconds to throw in a clean pocket with great receivers.  Yeah in that context, Haskins could be a Mark Rypien or Doug Williams type.  But in today's NFL, I got some serious concerns that a dude who is that immobile can thrive. 

 

And yes there are exceptions where he moves fine but if you sit through game after game, from what I saw he has slow feet.    I don't also know what to make of concerns that I've heard multiple draft geeks shared about things they heard about his work ethic and questions of whether he is disciplined enough to keep in shape and showed up to the combine out of shape and cramped up there.

 

There was a narrative brewing that NFL teams had a disconnect with the media on Haskins where the love wasn't the same.  If the NFL saw Haskins as lets say Bucky Brooks saw him, he'd have gone top 5 last night.  There were a bunch of QB needy teams that passed Haskins by yesterday, that's why he fell to 15. 

 

Now to counter all of that.  NFL teams obviously screw up the QB position all the time.  Plenty of teams pass on a QB and then learn to regret it.  This team could write a book on botching the QB position and we aren't alone on that front.  So even if Jay wasn't on board.  And you run with Haskins' critics.  They could be dead wrong.  Every year, media draft geeks, personnel people and fans like us get it dead wrong on QBs.

 

As for Haskins specifically, he is probably the easiest QB in this draft to cherry pick stats, numbers, and praise.   So it's easy to make it a love feat.  It's also easy to throw a monkey wrench in Haskins stats.  We've done it back and forth on the draft thread for months.  But I am not going to throw the counter tweets-stats on purpose.  Again not trying to spoil the party. 😀  Half the fun of taking a media darling prospect is the hype.   So even I will do my best to enjoy it.  

 

My point in short is we don't know about Haskins or any QB until the movie plays out.  Will see.    If I had to pick my favorite Haskins narrative it would be the backdrop that he outright lobbied to play for his boyhood favorite team, and they didn't want him.  Schefter added insult to injury on that point this morning by saying Haskins wasn't even their #2 guy, that was Lock.    So it should be fun to see a dude bent on some revenge. 

 

 

 

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

--

Honest qeustion

 

How many guys think Ha-skins doesn't fit Jay O because they call him slow/not mobile...and think he can't run the bootlegs because of that? 

 

Or do you have more concerns? 

 

Honest answer: How many have NOT seen his highlights from last year? He can run when needed or required. 

If Gruden can't design his plays based on the ability of a said QB then he should not be coaching. 

[RandyHolt]

I feel like a prospects bio page's Strengths and Weaknesses, should be weighted.  I feel like they go out of their way to be plenty of both. Reading up on anyone, they just crush them in weaknesses.  If they say mobility is a weakness, they imply a guy is immobile. Heck even Tom "Molasses" Brady consistently does QB sneaks for 4 yards.

 

Bah whatever, just read the strengths.

[Zazzaro703]

Is it possible the Redskins FO actually rope a doped the Giants into picking Jones at 6? I just cannot believe they had Allen fall into their laps and pulled the trigger on Jones when they could have sat back and gotten him at 17 or traded back up a few spots ahead of the skins. All the talk of the Skins moving up and the football guys liked Jones day of the draft.

 

I didnt want want a first round QB because I figured it would be the 4th or 5th one drafted at 15 or we’d give up a ton of assets to move up, but I’m fine with Haskins at 15. Ideally, we wouldn’t have gone QB because I have doubts Jay will be here next year but we also got an incredible impact player in a position of need with our 2nd and next years 2nd. I was willing to trade a 2nd for Rosen so that’s a wash for me and an incredible first round by the Redskins. The thing with QBs is you never know what’s going to happen until they are in the system. Great QBs can suck and not so great QBs can look fantastic. Rolling the dice at 15 not having to give up anything additional was a price the organization was going to pay (they also needed to inject life into the fan base and try to sell some tickets which is why I was terrified they sell the farm and move up).

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

And yes there are exceptions where he moves fine but if you sit throw game after game, from what I saw he has slow feet.    I don't also know what to make of concerns that I've heard multiple draft geeks shared about things they heard about his work ethic and questions of whether he is disciplined enough to keep in shape and showed up to the combine out of shape and cramped up there.

I haven't read or studied anywhere near the degree that I think you have, but I heard one of the things Shawn Springs and others have said about him is that he is a film rat and does work very hard at his prep. He seems to take the mental side of the game really seriously.

[skinsmania123]

33 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

I am very curious as to Jay's future at this point. Trying to make Haskins something he is not, is old school square peg round hole NFL QB "development".  An old school recipe to get a coach fired, and ruin a QB.

I totally agree with this.  One of things people don't talk much about, which is an amazing topic, and something a lot of coaches can learn from is how Pederson molded the offense to Foles strengths when Wentz went down.  If he had forced him into the same system that Wentz played in they would not have gone to the SB two years back.  What really struck me, which is so essential, is sometimes playing to the strengths of the QB you draft, not trying to insert them into a system or style of play that suits you as a coach, and is dissonant to the QB you are playing.  That is a recipe for disaster.   I think you also got to see this with McVay and Goff.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

I would rather have had them trade back and grab Sweat than what they did...

 

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Me too. They still would have grabbed their impact defensive player they wanted and began to stack a few mid round pick. It would have allowed for them to drop back a little one or two more times with the 2 or 3 round picks. Not a big Haskins fan. (no I mean he is my favorite QB). The talent pool jfor day 2 is amazing

 

I wish trading down only required the Skins to want to do so.

 

After the Steelers traded up to #10 with the Broncos there were no more trades until #21. If no team in between 10 and 21 wanted to trade down, that means they felt confident in the talent they were drafting at their spot and didn't believe that same talent would be available if they picked lower. If no team wanted to trade up to anything between 10 and 21 that means the only way the Skins could trade down is if they basically allowed themselves to get fleeced while doing so. And if teams were indeed contacting the Skins to trade up, it's very possible that they could have been targeting Haskins.

 

If there was trade activity in between 16-20 it would be one thing, but it doesn't appear that anyone really bothered to try to trade into the teens of the 1st round...so there probably wasn't a choice to be made of stay put or take some team's trade-up offer. I mean, in my ideal scenario they trade back, pick up an additional 2nd and 3rd, and still end up with a QB and edge rusher while scantily-clad cheerleaders give me a lap dance and I eat Ritz crackers off their bare shoulders and drink Orange Crush. I would rather that had happened lol...oh well.

 

*Nabisco paid for this post.

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

The quarterback position is one of the biggest crap shoot positions in the draft.   To most of the draft media, he was the 2nd best Qb in the draft according to Kiper and comrades  But Kiper is the same guy who said he'd quit his job if Brady Quinn didn't end up a good QB -- he is wrong a lot as is a lot of these media draft geeks on QBs.  As am I wrong and most fans.  Personnel guys -- everybody.   It's tough to get Qbs right. 

 

 My assessment of him is my own. Not the media's. But many draft people thought he was #2. You aren't one of them. That's okay.

 

  Then I kept hearing from different people that I respect including McCloughan in a segment and Cooley in his film review that this dude isn't what the media says he is.  Ditto some comments from those who watched him closely on the draft thread.

 

He NEVER was the guy he was being touted as for that short period of time. He was never that. People blew him up. That doesn't mean that he's still not a quality prospect. He's just not that, and never was, in my opinion.

 

And yes there are exceptions where he moves fine but if you sit throw game after game, from what I saw he has slow feet. 

 

Yup. One of the more coachable things. And even with a possible walking dead man in Gruden, I suspect that will be worked on and improved.

 

  I don't also know what to make of concerns that I've heard multiple draft geeks shared about things they heard about his work ethic and questions of whether he is disciplined enough to keep in shape and showed up to the combine out of shape and cramped up there.

 

Media talk.

 

There was a narrative brewing that NFL teams had a disconnect with the media on Haskins where the love wasn't the same.  If the NFL saw Haskins as lets say Bucky Brooks saw him, he'd have gone top 5 last night.  There were a bunch of QB needy teams that passed Haskins by yesterday, that's why he fell to 15.

 

Yup. He fell to closer to where he should have been projected.

 

As for Haskins specifically, he is probably the easiest QB in this draft to cherry pick stats, numbers, and praise.   So it's easy to make it a love feat.  It's also easy to throw a monkey wrench in Haskins stats.  We've done it back and forth on the draft thread for months.  But I am not going to throw the counter tweets-stats on purpose.  Again not trying to spoil the party. 

😀  Half the fun of taking a media darling prospect is the hype.   So even I will do my best to enjoy it.

 

Looking at stats when evaluating a prospect is folly.  

 

My point in short is we don't know about Haskins or any QB until the movie plays out.

 

Agreed. Completely.

 

  

[KillBill26]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So about a week ago I sat down and watched 5 Haskins games in a row and focused on some of that criticism.  And I saw what they saw.  

I want to go back and watch a game or two of Haskins to see for myself.  Is there a game that stands out to you as showing a mix of some of the good and some of the bad?  I know draft network lists Michigan as good tape and Michigan st as bad tape.  Just curious as to your thoughts.   Thanks.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

Honest answer: How many have NOT seen his highlights from last year? He can run when needed or required. 

If Gruden can't design his plays based on the ability of a said QB then he should not be coaching. 

 

Its not that they cannot, it's will they try, or won't they. 

 

Its a part of football that has undergone a MAJOR change in the past decade. OC's used to blindly try to mold a QB into the what their playbook demands, instead of simply just adding the plays the kid does well in, including formations.

 

I am not optimistic Jay will cater his playbook. Heck, he wouldn't even use Perine out of pistol, the formation he dominated out of, in college. Now, the microscope will be on him for how he grooms Haskins, and do think he will be more flexible than the all fired OCs of yesterdecade. But it was remarkable, an OC would rather go down in flames, playbook in hand, as the highest priority, vs simply catering to a young QBs strengths.

It started in Carolina IIRC with Cam Newton. And then Kap, Wilson, RG3, etc...

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, ggarriso said:

 

No your absolutely right - if you watch the video when he gets the call it is clear this was not a preferred destination for him.  He rolls his eyes and the female next to him recoils and puckers her lips.  Of course once they know the cameras are on its all (fake) smiles, but in his super low energy way- nothing genuine about this at all.  Everything about his body language thru the course of the evening screamed entitled bratty lazy and def. not a leader of a NFL franchise.

 

 

Well you are wrong.

 

He did interviews before the draft saying he wanted to play for the Redskins ( he did some of his growing up in Maryland and has family there).

 

His irritation last night was from how long it took him to be selected. He was unhappy the giants didn't take him, the dolphins didn't take him, and he slid down the board some.

 

Anyone who is saying his frowny face was because the Redskins selected him is just projecting their own misery about the team onto Haskins.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I want to go back and watch a game or two of Haskins to see for myself.  Is there a game that stands out to you as showing a mix of some of the good and some of the bad?  I know draft network lists Michigan as good tape and Michigan st as bad tape.  Just curious as to your thoughts.   Thanks.

 

Watch Michigan St. if you want to get a short term dose of depression. Michigan if you want to feel like we just drafted Tom Brady. The rest are pretty mixed bagish.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

"On paper if this defense gives up more than 215 points this year all coaches should be terminated "

 

 

I've been relatively kind to Manusky.   But if Foster can stay healthy (which is a big if) and Sweat is who I think he is -- this should be a top 10 defense.  So if they don't play up to that level, I wouldn't blame them from moving on from him.

 

Like I said on the draft thread, it's starting to feel to me some like last year's draft felt to me (albeit its too early to tell).  Last year, I disagreed with Payne over Derwin James.  I still do.  Though i liked Payne as a player then and still do now.  But loved the rest of their draft aside from the Apke pick.

 

Yesterday I loved Sweat.  Some of us ranked our top 5 wants yesterday on the draft thread at 15.  Sweat was tied with Burns as my 2nd desired player.

 

In the third round you can get a receiver today and a guard or tackle who can be converted into one.  Guessing who might be there, maybe:

 

Arcega-Whiteside

Jace Sternberger (he's a TE but love him as a weapon)

McLaurin (Haskins' old teammate) 

Andy Isabella

C. McGovern

M. Deiter

Dru Samia

K. Harmon (though not sure I like him, got to watch him today)

 

Guessing Deebo, AJ Brown, Butler, Campbell are gone

 

 

[Zazzaro703]

As we all know we are completely screwed at the QB position for a couple years so being able to add a QB on a rookie contract was the only way we even had a chance to get a higher ceiling guy in here over Keenum and McCoy. If he doesn’t turn out, we probably suck for two years anyways and just reset the QB position when Alex Smith can come off the books. 

[Tedskins 21]

I am disappointed in our draft.  I understand the picks, but do not think they are the difference makers that you should be coming home with in the first round.  I hope they prove me wrong...

[RandyHolt]

20 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I totally agree with this.  One of things people don't talk much about, which is an amazing topic, and something a lot of coaches can learn from is how Pederson molded the offense to Foles strengths when Wentz went down.  If he had forced him into the same system that Wentz played in they would not have gone to the SB two years back.  What really struck me, which is so essential, is sometimes playing to the strengths of the QB you draft, not trying to insert them into a system or style of play that suits you as a coach, and is dissonant to the QB you are playing.  That is a recipe for disaster.   I think you also got to see this with McVay and Goff.  

 

Yep, you may have said it better than me in my most recent post, as you have the recent example that gave them their Bowl win.  A coach should always ask his new QB to share his old playbook, and go from there.  I am convinced it is easier to slip some pages from someones playbook into ours, vs expect a kid to learn an 800 page playbook filled only with plays he has never run (e.g. Al Saunders and scaling his playbook from 800 pages to 400 pages, a year after expecting Campbell to digest that beast).

 

I suspect Jay will be gone before Haskins wins 6 games for us, unless he embraces gun and purges his playbook quick.

 

On a side note, Foles will suck in Jax unless he gets to run HIS plays, just like most QBs.  QB's fail, OC's fail, and the blame is always placed on the QB. But the process never gets enough scrutiny IMO, especially considering the popularity of the game, draft capital expended, and importance of a functioning QB.

[RandyHolt]

15 minutes ago, Zazzaro703 said:

As we all know we are completely screwed at the QB position for a couple years so being able to add a QB on a rookie contract was the only way we even had a chance to get a higher ceiling guy in here over Keenum and McCoy. If he doesn’t turn out, we probably suck for two years anyways and just reset the QB position when Alex Smith can come off the books. 

 

Good stuff.  For those suggesting we should have tanked and then nabbed a QB next year, we cannot wait to get the process started towards having an affordable QB.  And there is no guarantee that QB we want next year, will actually be available to us, and at a reasonable price. 

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, DogofWar1 said:

Haskins' body language is/was concerning, but based on some quotes it sounds like he's more pissed at the rest of the NFL with how far he fell than with coming here.  There's a strong argument for him being a close #2 QB in the draft, and he ended up 9 spots behind the 2nd QB

 

And I'm sure he was pissed about the Giants taking Daniel Jones ahead of him. The Giants really screwed up.  Just ask their fans 😂

 

NSFW:

 

[DC9]

42 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

--

Honest qeustion

 

How many guys think Ha-skins doesn't fit Jay O because they call him slow/not mobile...and think he can't run the bootlegs because of that? 

 

Or do you have more concerns? 

 

I think he's a downfield thrower and Jay is a WCO-ish HC.

 

Regardless, I love the pick because for me Haskins is/was the only 1st round QB in this draft.  I'm shocked he fell.  It would've been a sin not to take him even if he isn't a "scheme" fit.  I think KOC can make that work.

 

I also am a Jay guy, but if he can't adjust himself to get the most out of this kid, bye.

[arftech]

17 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

I am disappointed in our draft.  I understand the picks, but do not think they are the difference makers that you should be coming home with in the first round.  I hope they prove me wrong...

Jesus!