Does Doctson even care?

[Busch1724]

Smith is not the problem. Cousins wasn't the problem. Josh stinks. It can't be sugarcoated. 

[PartyPosse]

If Kirk is still yet to hit his ceiling at 30 as some claim then I think we should be more patient with a 3rd year 26 year old WR

[MartinC]

PFF grades for our offense from yesterday. I’m not a huge fan of PFF grades ...but interesting none the less.

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Jay said his blocking yesterday was unbelievable.  Jay also said sic you probably won't believe me but we are just scratching the surface with Josh.

 

I vote to rename the speculative and stupid threat title. THE Josh Doctson Thread {M.E.T.}

[TheShredder]

Doctson isn't a guy like Garcon, who plays mean.  He isn't a speedster, like DJ.  He catches the balls within his range less then half the time (actual catches to targets 43%).  He wasn't drafted to play with a mean streak or take the top off the defense, or be a possession receiver.  He was drafted for his leaping ability and catch 50/50 balls at the high point. 

The few targets he's been given to do what he was drafted to do basically have a result of 2 pass interference calls and no catches. I think it's pretty obvious that the Skins aren't using him for what he was drafted to do (for multiple reasons).  The biggest issue I can see with Doctson is his deep routes are simply below par.

The way I view it is Gruden has to put him in the best situation for what he does and let someone else have the snaps for the situations where what they need isn't what Doctson does well.  I see an issue for the coach here because he doesn't have enough guys healthy to satisfy what he needs from the WR's on every play. Injuries to some of the young guns (Simms & Quinn) started the season off with WR corp depth being depleted.  This last game with Crowder and CT being out only made it more difficult to find open receivers.  Ultimately they did a satisfactory job. 3 of the top 4 receivers this year didn't even play vs Dallas.

Do they need to make a trade to solve the WR issues?

That's an easy No.  Halfway through the season, you'd have to add a dynamic player to justify a big trade.  We're talking about someone who can take the top off the defense or adds a distinction to your immediate game plan.  Amari Cooper aint it!  Dez Bryant aint it!  That guy isn't out there or available.  However, they could add some depth.  Dallas made a foolish move and Cooper isn't going to solve what ails them because he doesn't play OL. 

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

 

 

 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Jay said his blocking yesterday was unbelievable.  Jay also said sic you probably won't believe me but we are just scratching the surface with Josh.

 

I vote to rename the speculative and stupid threat title. MET THE Josh Doctson Thread.

 

Just to follow that up he made one of the key blocks on the Bibbs TD. He was open deep several times yesterday despite a few including @TheShredder above saying he can't run deep routes but Alex over threw him. And he can be a possession WR as he showed yesterday with those two passes up the middle he caught. That pass on the side line with his vision blocked out by the defender was crazy good. 

 

Alex needs to throw to him more. Get him involved in the game. He is gained confidence. Hopefully Ales will gain some confidence in him and maybe stop overthrowing him when he is open. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1. JP FinlayVerified account @JPFinlayNBCS

   Gruden called Doctson’s blocking “unbelievable” on Sunday

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2. JP Finlay‏Verified account @JPFinlayNBCS 6h6 hours ago

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   Gruden happy with Doctson’s game yesterday, got open on slant routes “I know people don’t believe me but the plays will come” with Doctson

   2 replies8 retweets25 likes

    

[TheShredder]

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Just to follow that up he made one of the key blocks on the Bibbs TD. He was open deep several times yesterday despite a few including @TheShredder above saying he can't run deep routes but Alex over threw him. And he can be a possession WR as he showed yesterday with those two passes up the middle he caught. That pass on the side line with his vision blocked out by the defender was crazy good. 

I agree with you.  My reply was about why they drafted him.  I didn't say 'he can't run deep routes'.  I said his deep routes are below par.  He's not getting the targets for a multitude of reasons.  Including that Alex Smith isn't dropping dimes his way.

I'm also not giving up on Doctson.  He did just have his best game of the season. Cheers!

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, TheShredder said:

I agree with you.  My reply was about why they drafted him.  I didn't say 'he can't run deep routes'.  I said his deep routes are below par.  He's not getting the targets for a multitude of reasons.  Including that Alex Smith isn't dropping dimes his way.

 

But that's just it, his routes are not "below" par. He is getting open but the ball is not coming his way. He can catch most anything within reach. Yes he has had some drops. But all WRs drop balls and he this is still just his 2nd full season of actual play. Alex just needs to get it closer. You can't catch balls several feet over your head.

 

It is taking longer than any of us would like but he is getting better each game. Gaining confidence. If Alex can start getting him catchable balls, together they could make a big difference for the off. 

[DiscoBob]

Nope

 

Next question

[KillBill26]

7 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

If Kirk is still yet to hit his ceiling at 30 as some claim then I think we should be more patient with a 3rd year 26 year old WR

We've seen recent QBs remain elite as they approach their 40's.  WRs rarely remain elite past 30.  Positions aren't comparable.

[RandyHolt]

25 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

Nope

 

Next question

 

Your source?

[DiscoBob]

34 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Your source?

 

My eyes

[RandyHolt]

7 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

My eyes

 

 

I don't see very much passion from countless players, in every single game I watch.  All our WRs seem to care the same - not much rah rah from them.  For all we know Jay may have asked players to not be drama queens, to consider Art Monk as their role model vs say Odell. Who the hell knows.

 

Who the hell cares! 

[Thinking Skins]

The question of "caring" is an irrelevant one in my opinion. But I wonder if Josh and Alex are having conversations about his favorite routeds, where he likes the ball placed, when he's won a route and didn't get the ball etc. The saying is that WRs always think they're open, but is Doctson telling Smith that?and is Smith listening? 

[Thinking Skins]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The question of "caring" is an irrelevant one in my opinion. But I wonder if Josh and Alex are having conversations about his favorite routeds, where he likes the ball placed, when he's won a route and didn't get the ball etc. The saying is that WRs always think they're open, but is Doctson telling Smith that?and is Smith listening? 

Wow Craig Hoffman just answered this question on G&D, saying that Alex is starting to trust Doctson, that the routes Doctson got yesterday were the ones he ran at TCU, and that the end of half overthrow was a result of underestimating Doctson's toughness, and trying to get him away from the safety. 

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

We've seen recent QBs remain elite as they approach their 40's.  WRs rarely remain elite past 30.  Positions aren't comparable.

Depends on the kind of receiver. Like tight ends, those receivers who play physical and smart like a Hines Ward, Pierre Garcon or Boldin can play well into their thirties because the only thing you have to worry about losing is speed. Doctson's game isn't the kind that would dramatically slow down with age unless injuries continue to pile up. 

 

Besides, I'm just stating how quickly some are ready to give up on him. Look at guys like Michael Crabtree or Emmanuel Sanders. I think the transition from college to NFL as a WR is one of the harder ones because the secondary players are just so much better. I'm also not comparing positions. I'm comparing the level of patience to show a first rounder vs a fourth rounder.

[joeken24]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

Wow Craig Hoffman just answered this question on G&D, saying that Alex is starting to trust Doctson, that the routes Doctson got yesterday were the ones he ran at TCU, and that the end of half overthrow was a result of underestimating Doctson's toughness, and trying to get him away from the safety. 

I did like the quick two skinny post Doctson got.

[skins island connection]

 I still believe this team needs a tall lanky WR who has good hands and some shiftiness to him.

 

Watching the Dallas game sunday, I watched some of the WRs and I shook my head. I believe it was Harris, down around the goal line, he simply ran at half speed and slowly veered to the corner of the endzone, no juke, no fake, not even moving quickly, almost like a half-ass diversion to make a player respect the route.

 

This is one of the issues this group of WRs have; if they know they're not getting the ball or their route doesn't get many passes thrown to them, there's no effort into selling their route, and immediately the LBers/safeties disregard them and drift towards another WR. Its no wonder the ball isn't thrown their way, but worse is their job isn't being done.  If they can't sell their routes then they shouldn't be on the field, and Gruden/WRs coach should be grilling them about this.

[Skinsinparadise]

He also was happy with the improvement of wide receiver Josh Doctson, the 2016 first-round pick, who has fought a heel injury for much of the season and has not had much of an impact in the offense with 11 catches for 110 yards. Doctson was targeted six times against the Cowboys, catching three passes for 42 yards. Gruden said he loved the three catches Doctson made, including two quick throws that Doctson used his speed to turn into 15-yard gains.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/22/redskins-offense-has-been-sluggish-jay-gruden-says-big-plays-will-come/?utm_term=.96f19372a60a

[RandyHolt]

I saw a crossing route on the goal line. I think it was Doctson. I think he was a decoy, but anyways. He stutter stepped, and it allowed the DB that he had beat, to catch up to him. I believe the play was to the right side of the end zone, and he perhaps didn't want to flood the area, but I have to say I do question some of the routes I see our WRs running. He was open running towards Alex's field of vision, until he slowed.

 

I see @Thinking Skins shared some great info. That we let Josh run some of his fav TCU routes.  I don't know if its a coincidence or not, but doing things like that for a WR still finding his place in the league, is a damn smart thing to do. MOAR!

Another angle of playing WR that doesn't get much discussion here, that may even lead to posters creating a stoopid thread title... we often hear that a WR needs to get the ball early. To get involved. Otherwise, with a lack of early action, they kind of check out.  I heard it talked about this morning on Sirius fantasy (getting Julio involved early), and we have all heard that for likely decades now.  Dare I think the lack of targets our WRs get may lead posters into thinking a WR doesn't care.

 

Finally, Julio is getting triple teamed leaving guys like Ridley to score TDs.  Josh is likely our guy getting tripled folks.  On his deep ball that was a foot overthrown, I think he was triple covered. Half of the problem folks have with Josh may be remedied by Smith having better accuracy. Watching Ryan last night, he missed nothing deep. Fans were cheering TDs with the ball in the air.

[NickyJ]

I think he cares.

[TheGreek1973]

Got to give it mucho promps to Doctson today, he played very well.  And if he had a QB that doesn't frustrate the heck out of everyone including us fans then I can see him being a very good receiver.  

[justice98]

He has been more useful than normal the last couple weeks.  5 for 5 on targets this week.  Easily his best day catching the ball, which has been a struggle.  

[RandyHolt]

It sure looks like a strength of his is as a possession guy. 

 

Jay has changed the routes he is calling for Josh.  Right?  It's obvious IMO and was overdue. He is not just a 5050 guy but is the way we had used largely used him.  Jay came out firing today and Reed and Josh had the most targets in that first half. He seemed hell bent on solving our passing game woes on a day that said run at the G.

 

I still theorize that he had been calling low risk plays for WRs to avoid further injuries at the position, and is just riding the D/AP.  Keeping their targets low.