HardcoreZorn Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I'm still firmly in the camp that we can't give up on him yet. There were too many flashes last year, and this year he seems hardly to be getting any opportunities. He's never going to be a guy who separates a ton from NFL defensive backs. But that's just not his game. He needs more opportunities and Smith doesn't seem to be giving them to him. I have serious doubts he's ever a true number 1, so from that standpoint the pick is a bust. But I do think he could be a really solid receiver who contributes to a corps. We shall see, we could use a breakout game from him this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey hodge Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 2:45 PM, Malapropismic Depository said: It always seemed like Art Monk didn't care, when you compare his emotions to other players. But Art Monk was never on pace to make only 15 receptions for the entire season. With that type of on-the-field production, no one would need to question if he cares. However if big play Josh ... just... produced, he'd get the same pass... Y'all know his numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, petey hodge said: But Art Monk was never on pace to make only 15 receptions for the entire season. With that type of on-the-field production, no one would need to question if he cares. However if big play Josh ... just... produced, he'd get the same pass... Y'all know his numbers. Edit Good pick. He is being held and face guarded. He has drawn several penalties. He is also not getting many targets. Hard to make plays when the ball is not being thrown at you. He is getting better at blocking. Working on his technique and awareness. I see him and the entire passing game slowly getting better each game as we move forward. There is a lot of timing and trust. I agree wtih others that Jay should have let the starters play way more to develop that timing in game situations. He got gun shy with the Guice injury. Can't play scared though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saeth29 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 On 10/15/2018 at 6:15 PM, carex said: he also had a fourth for a really good gain nullified by a penalty I remember his look after this play... to me it seemed like he was annoyed the play was being brought back. He actually got a change to make a play and it doesn't count... and I think he bothered him. At least there's some emotion! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 You could substitute Josh Doctson's picture for Fedor Emelianko in this emotional chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Wingman Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I'm sure someone has time to make up a chart comparing our receivers. NFL.com has a cool next gen stats section and you can see receiver's average separation. Doctson is always the lowest and well below league average. He can't cut, can't get open, and just looks slow in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I also think it's silly for anyone on here to assume that they can judge a player's heart or desire from afar like that via his facial expression or something. Even before we drafted him I'd never read or heard anything about him other than he was dedicated and a hard worker. Is it possible that he really did become lazy or doesn't care? Sure, I suppose...but again, not every guy is a rah rah screamer. Am I disappointed in his season so far? Obviously. Do I completely blame him? No. I really just don't think he fits in our current offense and I have a feeling he might leave and end up being really good with a more aggressive offense/QB. That also doesn't necessarily mean none of it is his fault, if he isn't getting open enough. But again, he isn't a guy like OBJ or AB who are elite at getting separation; it just isn't really his game. He's a guy who makes plays with superior leaping ability, body control, jump timing, etc. But we really don't seem to have a place in our current offense for a guy like that. It's like taking a 4.3 burner and trying to turn him into an over the middle possession receiver who only runs 5-10 yard curl and dig routes. And to be honest, I wouldn't necessarily blame him if he's not super happy about so rarely being targeted or his skill set not being utilized well. It may be the case that he's not happy about it but that also doesn't mean he isn't trying or working hard. Someone not long ago was quoted about Doctson (I think it may have been D. Hall) saying that he is so focused on being a good teammate that he is sort of the anti-Dez...he never complains or makes an issue out of not getting the ball thrown his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Come on Doc. You are the Last Man Standing ! Do somethin with it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey hodge Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 5 hours ago, goskins10 said: Good pick. He is being held and face guarded. He has drawn several penalties. He is also not getting many targets. Hard to make plays when the ball is not being thrown at you. He is getting better at blocking. Working on his technique and awareness. I see him and the entire passing game slowly getting better each game as we move forward. There is a lot of timing and trust. I agree wtih others that Jay should have let the starters play way more to develop that timing in game situations. He got gun shy with the Guice injury. Can't play scared though. You're right, I should have picked a photo of Doctson catching a TD in that GB game. ...Ah-Haaaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: You are the Last Man Standing ! Fuller will be in the NFL long after those two clowns are gone. Just not for us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Just now, Tsailand said: Fuller will be in the NFL long after those two clowns are gone. Just not for us... I believe the first part. But I see Fuller returning to the Skins when he becomes a FA. Because deep down inside...he is a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan35yrs. Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/15/2018 at 3:55 PM, MartinC said: My respect for Doctson actually went up this weekend. He was clearly way below 100% - he was limping between snaps and on the sideline. But he toughed it out and although he only had 3 catches for not many yards they were tough contested catches he had to fight for. This does not mean I can see him becoming the next Art Monk - but at least it showed me he has heart. ok so my belief is at WR you need to be pert near 100% to do your job well. Why is he on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: I believe the first part. But I see Fuller returning to the Skins when he becomes a FA. Because deep down inside...he is a Redskin. The Redskins. The team that traded him without the common courtesy of notifying him before he was reading about it on Twitter. Ah yes, the Redskins, gotta get back there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan35yrs. Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 4:45 PM, Malapropismic Depository said: It always seemed like Art Monk didn't care, when you compare his emotions to other players. but he produced. He wasnt a flashy guy he just did his job. No spiking the ball just handing it to the ref and getting back to the hudle type of guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, skinsfan35yrs. said: but he produced. He wasnt a flashy guy he just did his job. No spiking the ball just handing it to the ref and getting back to the hudle type of guy Oh, he spiked the ball. He showed passion, he just didn't talk **** on the field. And he didn't like to do interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, skinsfan35yrs. said: ok so my belief is at WR you need to be pert near 100% to do your job well. Why is he on the field? I know this isn't going to go over well for many in this thread, but with our relatively thin cast of WRs perhaps even when Doctson is not at 100% the coaches still think he's better than guys who might replace him? I'm not necessarily saying that's my assessment...I haven't gotten around to watching the All-22 and focusing on him and I'm far from a professional WR analyst or scout. I'm just saying that maybe the coaches watch him practice, watch his tape, and believe that he's better than many on here do and he is still one of their best options to be out there starting. As has been hypothesized before, it might not be totally (or even mostly) his fault that he isn't getting targeted very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan35yrs. Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 6 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: I'm still firmly in the camp that we can't give up on him yet. There were too many flashes last year, and this year he seems hardly to be getting any opportunities. He's never going to be a guy who separates a ton from NFL defensive backs. But that's just not his game. He needs more opportunities and Smith doesn't seem to be giving them to him. I have serious doubts he's ever a true number 1, so from that standpoint the pick is a bust. But I do think he could be a really solid receiver who contributes to a corps. We shall see, we could use a breakout game from him this week. correct me if I am wrong but dont you need to get open to have a chance and when open and thrown to dont you need to catch it? I mean I have seen alligator arms a few times when thrown to by him 30 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Oh, he spiked the ball. He showed passion, he just didn't talk **** on the field. And he didn't like to do interviews. i was talking in general. he may have I dont remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, mojo said: The Redskins. The team that traded him without the common courtesy of notifying him before he was reading about it on Twitter. Ah yes, the Redskins, gotta get back there... Not all players are bitter and easily offended. Not Fuller. He is not that type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Not all players are bitter and easily offended. Not Fuller. He is not that type of guy. Do you know him personally? Not being smart, just wondering how you have so such insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 3 hours ago, skinsfan35yrs. said: correct me if I am wrong but dont you need to get open to have a chance and when open and thrown to dont you need to catch it? I mean I have seen alligator arms a few times when thrown to by him i was talking in general. he may have I dont remember Monk did show emotion. Now, was he Gary Clark? No. But he did celebrate TD's, was in the Fun Bunch, and obviously was a HoF WR. What he didn't do was act out or complain to the refs much, if at all, and he didn't like to talk to reporters. And there was absolutely no question to his effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Morneblade said: Monk did show emotion. Now, was he Gary Clark? No. But he did celebrate TD's, was in the Fun Bunch, and obviously was a HoF WR. What he didn't do was act out or complain to the refs much, if at all, and he didn't like to talk to reporters. And there was absolutely no question to his effort. I wonder how different that may have been if there had been the same social and other media scrutiny then as there is now. We saw and heard much less of the guys. Not saying Monk was anything but a hard working professional or suggesting Doctson is in Monk's league in any way. Just saying the perception of him may have been much different, at least to start had there been the same level of microscope placed on him. Same with many players before social media and the 24/7 media cycle. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Circling back to my obsession about wanting to see him get bigger and stronger... he is not wide open after running his routes. Occasionally we will see a slant when he is open but he just never seems to be running free. It's like he never gets to face zone. Dare I say he is not a crisp route guy, or maybe he is not clean out of his breaks. He always seems to have a defender on his hip. This points to him needing to man up and battle the DBs physically, for most of his targets. I wonder if the injuries he has had to endure, have caused him to lose a step. Double Achilles as a rookie.... just our ****ing luck. We got decimated by injuries at wideout to start the year, and it's even worse today. Davis, Quinn, Sims. Harris got concussed. Richardson, hurt. Crowder, hurt. Doctson, the heel. Say what you want about him, but he seems the healthiest of the bunch. He cares, probably more than you do. Our lame duck WR group probably has him facing the top corner most weeks. It's not easy for the leagues elite WRs to play against elite corners. If you play fantasy, you know this. Sprinkle in a little Reed Davis Sprinkle and Thompson being Alex's go to guys, Josh is left to block and be a decoy 95% of the time. As @NoCalMike said, we have to use him to his strengths in the red zone. I wonder if Alex is a great RZ fade thrower. We know Kirk could barely do it. He may need to start risking PI's (aka Michael Irvinging) to get an advantage. Lots of WRs cheat to create space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 This is the week we really need Doc and Jordan Reed to step up and take over if given the targets. Doc can redefine his career if he plays a big part in us beating Dallas. Let's hope he steps up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 3 hours ago, goskins10 said: I wonder how different that may have been if there had been the same social and other media scrutiny then as there is now. We saw and heard much less of the guys. Not saying Monk was anything but a hard working professional or suggesting Doctson is in Monk's league in any way. Just saying the perception of him may have been much different, at least to start had there been the same level of microscope placed on him. Same with many players before social media and the 24/7 media cycle. Just a thought. I honestly think that guys like Dexter Manley and John Riggins would be in much more trouble then Art Monk today. Art Monk was Barry Sanders. Humble and quiet. Today that would still be a breath of fresh air. I don't think Art would fare worse now. In fact he might actual say more. Not to reporters or bloggers, or Twitter, but as introvert, there are places you can say things today that are not in response to a question (like it was back in the 80's). Or not, he might just be a hermit. Either way, I don't think it would hurt him. He was a great player and I don't think that changes. He is a very good man, I don't think that changes. He might opt out of a interview with J.P Finley after a game, or not take a bunch of questions after practice. But I don't think his public perception changes much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Wingman Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 19 hours ago, Skins Wingman said: I'm sure someone has time to make up a chart comparing our receivers. NFL.com has a cool next gen stats section and you can see receiver's average separation. Doctson is always the lowest and well below league average. He can't cut, can't get open, and just looks slow in general. So if anyone is interested, here is the information I put together: Reed: 3.31 Richardson: 2.98 Harris: 2.88 League Average: 2.79 Davis: 2.76 Crowder: 2.57 Doctson: 2.10 This is defined as: "How much separation a receiver is getting from the nearest defender (in yards) at the time of catch/incompletion." https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/game-center Now this doesn't take into effect if a receiver is wide open and doesn't get the ball, but still seems like a helpful stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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