Does Doctson even care?

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

I honestly think that guys like Dexter Manley and John Riggins would be in much more trouble then Art Monk today. Art Monk was Barry Sanders.

 

Humble and quiet.

 

Today that would still be a breath of fresh air. I don't think Art would fare worse now. In fact he might actual say more. Not to reporters or bloggers, or Twitter, but as introvert, there are places you can say things today that are not in response to a question (like it was back in the 80's). Or not, he might just be a hermit.

 

Either way, I don't think it would hurt him. He was a great player and I don't think that changes. He is a very good man, I don't think that changes. He might opt out of a interview with J.P Finley after a game, or not take a bunch of questions after practice.

 

But I don't think his public perception changes much.

 

That's easy to say now. But what about early? We don't know what we don't know. He never had 10 TDs - his first 3 seasons he had 3, 6 and then 1 in an injury season. He never really had a great PO, was injured a lot. How would this media treat him?

 

My point is it's not really about who they are but how the media would treat them. The scrutiny the players are under now is exponentially greater than then. And Monk had a problem with the media then! Can you imagine now? 

 

My point is that Josh is a quiet shy guy off the field but he does work his ass off. But if fans do not see him yelling and screaming and beating his chest and al the **** some of the other WRs do, he is soft. They really have no idea how absolutely full of **** that is. 

 

The NFL game may be too big for him. Not all college players can make the transition. But it has nothing to do with desire or heart. 

 

This is just a feeling - admittedly it may be more wishful thinking than anything - but I feel like they (meaning the passing game) are due for a breakout game here soon when it all finally clicks with Alex and he gets on the same page with his WRs. Hopefully it's against dallast. They win one game and they are headed for the SB! Would be so good to beat the **** out of them for once. 

 

Not really likely I know as it just sets up for another Jay Gruden special, get our hopes up high and then come out flat and get beat at home game. But he and the team have yet another chance to change that. 

 

 

[Morneblade]

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

That's easy to say now. But what about early? We don't know what we don't know. He never had 10 TDs - his first 3 seasons he had 3, 6 and then 1 in an injury season. He never really had a great PO, was injured a lot. How would this media treat him?

 

You really should not try and compare passing stats from 1980 with 2016, Completely different era. Even then, Art was more effective and consistent that Doctson has been. And when you compare stats from 2 vastly different eras and you see the old guy having better stats, if that doesn't put up a red flag, I don't know what does.

 

That being said, If you put Art in 2018 at age 23, he likely blows up the league.

 

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

My point is it's not really about who they are but how the media would treat them. The scrutiny the players are under now is exponentially greater than then. And Monk had a problem with the media then! Can you imagine now? 

 

I think I already mentioned it. I also don't think it would be as big of a deal as you suggest. Mostly because, growing up in a very different time, he'd likely be more available to the media. But it's doubtful he'd have a Instagram account.

 

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

My point is that Josh is a quiet shy guy off the field but he does work his ass off. But if fans do not see him yelling and screaming and beating his chest and al the **** some of the other WRs do, he is soft. They really have no idea how absolutely full of **** that is. 

 

The NFL game may be too big for him. Not all college players can make the transition. But it has nothing to do with desire or heart. 

 

Sometimes part of players not making the transition is desire and heart. You're REALLY good at something and it's EASY, you just keep doing it, it gets you a lot of things you like. Then, all of a sudden, Easy Street closes and you have to really work, not to be great, but to just be average. You can't skate by on your natural talent anymore. All of a sudden, it's not fun. All of a sudden, you discover you really don't like football. You just like the things it brought you.

 

This happens as well.

 

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

This is just a feeling - admittedly it may be more wishful thinking than anything - but I feel like they (meaning the passing game) are due for a breakout game here soon when it all finally clicks with Alex and he gets on the same page with his WRs. Hopefully it's against dallast. They win one game and they are headed for the SB! Would be so good to beat the **** out of them for once. 

 

Not really likely I know as it just sets up for another Jay Gruden special, get our hopes up high and then come out flat and get beat at home game. But he and the team have yet another chance to change that. 

 

 

 

Alex Smith is not really the QB to help a WR have a breakout game, or a breakout season for that matter.

[zCommander]

According to Gruden (yesterday on the radio) Doctson gets a bad rap for being an injury prone guy. He stuck it out and made big plays for us (in the Panthers game).

 

Sure sounds like Doctson does care and does want to play football. 

 

The problem has been Alex and his timing and chemistry with Doctson like throwing out of bounds where Doctson can't catch the ball. But that doesn't mean Doctson doesn't care. I haven't seen enough to say he doesn't care. Doctson is a little shy. He is not Santana Moss where he is going to spin the ball after getting a 1st down. Just because someone doesn't show that kind of fire doesn't mean they don't care. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

You really should not try and compare passing stats from 1980 with 2016, Completely different era. Even then, Art was more effective and consistent that Doctson has been. And when you compare stats from 2 vastly different eras and you see the old guy having better stats, if that doesn't put up a red flag, I don't know what does.

 

That being said, If you put Art in 2018 at age 23, he likely blows up the league.

 

Was was not trying to compare. Was saying what would the media response be if they fax the same 24/7.  I think they would have been critical  

 

Quote

 

I think I already mentioned it. I also don't think it would be as big of a deal as you suggest. Mostly because, growing up in a very different time, he'd likely be more available to the media. But it's doubtful he'd have a Instagram account.

 

You grow up with it you would have it. If he didn’t that likely be criticized. But I still think it may have been different. How mych?  Fair enough. Hard to tell. 

 

Quote

 

Sometimes part of players not making the transition is desire and heart. You're REALLY good at something and it's EASY, you just keep doing it, it gets you a lot of things you like. Then, all of a sudden, Easy Street closes and you have to really work, not to be great, but to just be average. You can't skate by on your natural talent anymore. All of a sudden, it's not fun. All of a sudden, you discover you really don't like football. You just like the things it brought you.

 

This happens as well.

 

 

This this is where I really disagree. You and others keep talking about heart and desire. Do you know what it took for him to get to TCU?  If you did there is no way you make the assumption he has no interest. He just may not have the skill set. 

 

 

Quote

Alex Smith is not really the QB to help a WR have a breakout game, or a breakout season for that matter.

 

thats another conversation. 

[joeken24]

On 10/15/2018 at 5:18 PM, petey hodge said:

When we drafted him.

 

 

2018

 

Classic! ****ed up, but classic

[theTruthTeller]

I don't want to say anything negative about Doctson, because he seems like a decent guy.  But people that fell in love with him in the draft were falling in love with stats and highlight reels.   Doctson had great stats in 2015 - 14 TDs - and was seemingly always open.  But anyone who watched Big 12 football in 2015 knew the real deal.  No one in the Big 12 played defense.  TCU had 5 games where they scored over 50 points and had 39 receiving TDs on the year.  Baylor had 6 games over 50 points and 44 receiving TDs.  Oklahoma had 6 games over 50 points and 28 receiving TDs.  Texas Tech had 6 games over 50 and 39 receiving TDs.  Oklahoma St. had 3 games over 50 and 35 receiving TDs.

 

Doctson was actually the second Big 12 receiver taken in the first round in the 2016.  Corey Coleman of Baylor was chosen number 15 overall by Cleveland. in 2015, Coleman had 20 TD receptions for Baylor.  After two lackluster years in the NFL, Coleman was traded to Buffalo for a 7th round pick.  He was cut at the end of training camp.  He was picked up by NE for their practice squad and released.  He is currently on the Giants practice squad. Buffalo is stuck with paying his salary for years three and four of his rookie contract, which is substantial.

 

I think too much is made of players "not trying" when they fail to live up to the fans expectations.  Sometimes, a player just isn't good enough to succeed in the NFL  Other times, a guy like Adam Thielen slips through the cracks and becomes a star.  It's just a part of the NFL.  Even the "experts" can't reliably predict success on a consistent basis.  Part of what makes the game interesting.

[joeken24]

52 minutes ago, zskins said:

According to Gruden (yesterday on the radio) Doctson gets a bad rap for being an injury prone guy. He stuck it out and made big plays for us (in the Panthers game).

 

Sure sounds like Doctson does care and does want to play football. 

 

The problem has been Alex and his timing and chemistry with Doctson like throwing out of bounds where Doctson can't catch the ball. But that doesn't mean Doctson doesn't care. I haven't seen enough to say he doesn't care. Doctson is a little shy. He is not Santana Moss where he is going to spin the ball after getting a 1st down. Just because someone doesn't show that kind of fire doesn't mean they don't care. 

I absolutely agree. And speaking of Tana man....he went through the same thing in NY before he got shipped to us. I think Doctson cares. I also think he'll be ok. IMO, we'll never really see one guy on this team have a break out game. Gruden puts too much emphasis on "getting to his play book" and spreading the ball around. Its the reason everyone is asking him every week why Jordan Reed is not getting more looks. It would be nice if Gruden moved players around to create mismatches (for Doctson, let alone Reed). But he doesn't...... 

 

[joeken24]

9 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

I don't want to say anything negative about Doctson, because he seems like a decent guy.  But people that fell in love with him in the draft were falling in love with stats and highlight reels.   Doctson had great stats in 2015 - 14 TDs - and was seemingly always open.  But anyone who watched Big 12 football in 2015 knew the real deal.  No one in the Big 12 played defense.  TCU had 5 games where they scored over 50 points and had 39 receiving TDs on the year.  Baylor had 6 games over 50 points and 44 receiving TDs.  Oklahoma had 6 games over 50 points and 28 receiving TDs.  Texas Tech had 6 games over 50 and 39 receiving TDs.  Oklahoma St. had 3 games over 50 and 35 receiving TDs.

 

Doctson was actually the second Big 12 receiver taken in the first round in the 2016.  Corey Coleman of Baylor was chosen number 15 overall by Cleveland. in 2015, Coleman had 20 TD receptions for Baylor.  After two lackluster years in the NFL, Coleman was traded to Buffalo for a 7th round pick.  He was cut at the end of training camp.  He was picked up by NE for their practice squad and released.  He is currently on the Giants practice squad. Buffalo is stuck with paying his salary for years three and four of his rookie contract, which is substantial.

 

I think too much is made of players "not trying" when they fail to live up to the fans expectations.  Sometimes, a player just isn't good enough to succeed in the NFL  Other times, a guy like Adam Thielen slips through the cracks and becomes a star.  It's just a part of the NFL.  Even the "experts" can't reliably predict success on a consistent basis.  Part of what makes the game interesting.

Great points. But I think any player that has success at the D1 level, continues that success if they maintain confidence. Doctson and Josh Allen mentioned that in training camp, and its true. So lets say Doctson plays for a team that emphasizes the WR position; moves them around and gets them involved early. I think Doctson builds confidence and does well. That's not the case here. No receiver (WR or TE) gets more that 5 looks (and that's on the high side). I played WR myself. I used to hate it when damn near every play was a blocking assignment (god forbid a crack back on a LB) or some curl route. Throw me something I can create with!! If I'm out here, I might as well make some plays, right?

Through week 6 - Doctson has averaged 3 targets a game. The most targets goes to Jordan Reed with about a whooping 5!! (I'm being sarcastic), so its not like this offense is passing the ball often or efficient. That could be Alex, could be line play or it could be the play calling. Pick your poison....

But I do know Doctson and every receiver on this team is lulled to sleep with this offense.

So, here's a stat that puts the Redskins' passing game in perspective - Thielen and Diggs (of the Vikings) have 79 Targets (with 58 reception) and 59 Targets (with 40 reception) respectively. Those two receivers have more targets than the Redskins entire receiving corp (to include TEs). And as mentioned, Thielen has more receiving yards than the Redskins offense combined. IMO Doctson suffers more from this offensive scheme than from his ability...at least this year.

 

 

[theTruthTeller]

16 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Great points. But I think any player that has success at the D1 level, continues that success if they maintain confidence. Doctson and Josh Allen mentioned that in training camp, and its true. So lets say Doctson plays for a team that emphasizes the WR position; moves them around and gets them involved early. I think Doctson builds confidence and does well. That's not the case here. No receiver (WR or TE) gets more that 5 looks (and that's on the high side). I played WR myself. I used to hate it when damn near every play was a blocking assignment (god forbid a crack back on a LB) or some curl route. Throw me something I can create with!! If I'm out here, I might as well make some plays, right?

Through week 6 - Doctson has averaged 3 targets a game. The most targets goes to Jordan Reed with about a whooping 5!! (I'm being sarcastic), so its not like this offense is passing the ball often or efficient. That could be Alex, could be line play or it could be the play calling. Pick your poison....

But I do know Doctson and every receiver on this team is lulled to sleep with this offense.

So, here's a stat that puts the Redskins' passing game in perspective - Thielen and Diggs (of the Vikings) have 79 Targets (with 58 reception) and 59 Targets (with 40 reception) respectively. Those two receivers have more targets than the Redskins entire receiving corp (to include TEs). And as mentioned, Thielen has more receiving yards than the Redskins offense combined. IMO Doctson suffers more from this offensive scheme than from his ability...at least this year.

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you said (although I would note that group of people lulled to sleep with this offense is hardly limited to the wide receivers), but I just don't think Doctson is anywhere near as athletic as people would like to believe.  If you look at his college highlights, you'll see that a lot of his routes weren't very good - his cuts aren't very sharp - but he got away with it because his routes didn't need to be that great in order for him to be wide open.  As someone noted above, his yards of separation in the NFL is the worst on the team, and coupled with Smith's preference for wide open receivers, he's not going to get a lot of targets.  Either he needs to be coached to run better routes or Smith has to become comfortable with Doctson's ability to make catches when tightly covered.  And I don't think Smith is going to change at this point in his career.  Or, as you noted, Gruden has to open up his offense, which is also unlikely to happen barring threats from above.

 

We'll see what happens this week.  Even though the Cowboys don't play a lot of man coverage, I expect them to this week if Richardson is out as expected.  Awuzie and Jones are athletic with good size, Let's see if Doctson can shake them.

[Est.1974]

Well this week would be a great time for a breakout game.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, theTruthTeller said:

I don't disagree with anything you said (although I would note that group of people lulled to sleep with this offense is hardly limited to the wide receivers), but I just don't think Doctson is anywhere near as athletic as people would like to believe.  If you look at his college highlights, you'll see that a lot of his routes weren't very good - his cuts aren't very sharp - but he got away with it because his routes didn't need to be that great in order for him to be wide open.  As someone noted above, his yards of separation in the NFL is the worst on the team, and coupled with Smith's preference for wide open receivers, he's not going to get a lot of targets.  Either he needs to be coached to run better routes or Smith has to become comfortable with Doctson's ability to make catches when tightly covered.  And I don't think Smith is going to change at this point in his career.  Or, as you noted, Gruden has to open up his offense, which is also unlikely to happen barring threats from above.

 

We'll see what happens this week.  Even though the Cowboys don't play a lot of man coverage, I expect them to this week if Richardson is out as expected.  Awuzie and Jones are athletic with good size, Let's see if Doctson can shake them.

 

I don't disagree with most of this but just wanted to point out that good route running generally doesn't have all that much to do with pure athletic ability and much more to do with practice, precision in footwork, and study (knowing when certain guys tend to flip their hips, what moves they're prone to bite on, etc). However, the ability to stop and start quickly certain is a factor, which is why I said generally.

 

Doctson's pure athletic ability is pretty stellar. He had a 41 inch vertical, a 131 inch broad jump, a 4.08 20 yard shuttle, and 11.06 20 yard shuttle, all of which were in the top of his draft class. His 3 cone (which I think can be important for WRs) was good but not great at 6.84. That could have an impact on his route running, but there are plenty of top notch NFL WRs who didn't have superhuman 3 cone times. Diggs was 7.03, Mike Evans was 7.08, Davante Adams was 6.84, AJ Green was 6.91, etc. 

[RandyHolt]

I love someone taking a stab at WR separation advanced stats.  Seeing Doctson so low supports what I have seen and that kinda sucks but think the board can agree he is not getting wide open.  I am a bit surprised to see Crowder below average. I wonder if those compiling the stats weighed all pass plays the same, vs say weighing more heavily man vs zone.

 

Interesting to learn Doc's college stats were likely padded in a soft conference (hat tip to @theTruthTeller). My only thought - there are presumed many conferences that don't play much defense. It's how guys like RG3 can throw to wide open WRs all year and win a Heisman. I wish our GMs were better at filtering those things out, but understand the tape is the only tape they have.  Seeing them battling vet corners at pro day etc would prove to be valuable scouting info. Or, knowing the player is a workout freak and plans to bulk up as they move into the Pro's. I think an early WR taken needs to be ripped - if not it could be a red flag to consider.

[Malapropismic Depository]

20 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I love someone taking a stab at WR separation advanced stats.  Seeing Doctson so low supports what I have seen and that kinda sucks but think the board can agree he is not getting wide open.

 

I thought what was supposed to make him so special was his skills and tangibles that allowed him to come down with the ball, even when he's not wide open

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I thought what was supposed to make him so special was his skills and tangibles that allowed him to come down with the ball, even when he's not wide open

Good post and all true. 

 

I think we all assumed his route running would also lead to more easy catches than we see. The thing with him that Alex will have to realize, that he makes great adjustments on the poorly thrown balls.  The deep route underthrow is in his wheelhouse. Alex needs to worry less about INTs and placement with him. Him being forced into big adjustments helps shakes defenders, and that is where he dominates. 

 

Has anyone ever stopped to figure out the best way to throw at a totally covered WR?  It's not just a jump ball, or back shoulder, is it? Underthrown deep balls are great PI generators.

 

Kirk had to learn to trust covered WRs because of Josh.  Otherwise, he wouldn't even throw at a covered WR in practice.  Dare I think Alex and his tendencies to avoid INTs make him hesitant to do anything but the safe high overish throws.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I love someone taking a stab at WR separation advanced stats.  Seeing Doctson so low supports what I have seen and that kinda sucks but think the board can agree he is not getting wide open.  I am a bit surprised to see Crowder below average. I wonder if those compiling the stats weighed all pass plays the same, vs say weighing more heavily man vs zone.

 

Interesting to learn Doc's college stats were likely padded in a soft conference (hat tip to @theTruthTeller). My only thought - there are presumed many conferences that don't play much defense. It's how guys like RG3 can throw to wide open WRs all year and win a Heisman. I wish our GMs were better at filtering those things out, but understand the tape is the only tape they have.  Seeing them battling vet corners at pro day etc would prove to be valuable scouting info. Or, knowing the player is a workout freak and plans to bulk up as they move into the Pro's. I think an early WR taken needs to be ripped - if not it could be a red flag to consider.

 

I do have some agreement with @theTruthTellerabout the Big 12 offenses and how they tend to be over-productive against mediocre defenses, but are and have been very good WRs to come out of the Big 12. I think perhaps because of weaker defenses some of them might take a bit more work in the pros but that doesn't mean that any WR coming out of there isn't going to make it.

 

Terrance Williams
Kendall Wright
Jordy Nelson
Kenny Stills
Dez
Danny Amendola
Michael Crabtree

 

All good or excellent receivers. Some better than others but at the very least all of them have been productive. 

[RandyHolt]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I do have some agreement with @theTruthTellerabout the Big 12 offenses and how they tend to be over-productive against mediocre defenses, but are and have been very good WRs to come out of the Big 12. I think perhaps because of weaker defenses some of them might take a bit more work in the pros but that doesn't mean that any WR coming out of there isn't going to make it.

 

Terrance Williams
Kendall Wright
Jordy Nelson
Kenny Stills
Dez
Danny Amendola
Michael Crabtree

 

All good or excellent receivers. Some better than others but at the very least all of them have been productive. 

 

Good stuff, thanks for compiling that list. This is all at the root of scouting, how do these kids project to the pros.  Let's be real, a lot of the kids are just born with sick skills and will either be hamstrung in a lame program, or pumped up depending on where they end up going to school.

 

My keyboard GM opinion, anyone that we project to be a jump ball red zone fade type, that they must have strong arms /hands, and good height.  Being a leaper only goes so far. You have to be able to muscle DBs out of the way before the jump, and wrestle for control of the ball afterwards.

 

 

[Bishop Hammer]

On 10/18/2018 at 10:01 AM, dyst said:

Given that the average NFL career is less than 5 years right? We aren't looking to good the last 5 years. Our top two picks.

 

2017: Allen + Anderson

2016: Doctson + Cravens

2015: Scherff + Smith

2014: Murphy + Moses

2013. Amerson + Reed

 

Crossed out are guys who are already off the team. Underlined are guys who probably won't last much longer. Bold are guy who at least contribute.

Looking at this list, starting from 2015, made me realize McCloughan wasn't the draft guru he was cracked up to be.  Or at the very least he lost his touch when he came here? Out of his three drafts only three players have worked out:  Scherff, Crowder, and Allen.  Heck I'll even throw in Preston Smith but but so far its been the same old dysfunction.?

[Morneblade]

9 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

This this is where I really disagree. You and others keep talking about heart and desire. Do you know what it took for him to get to TCU?  If you did there is no way you make the assumption he has no interest. He just may not have the skill set. 

. 

 

I know the story, he transferred from Wyoming to TCU to be closer to home. Was a walk on. We know the story. Couple of things to consider though. Why not just walk on to TCU right out of  high school, if that was so important? Or, why not stay at Wyoming? I suppose there are several different ideas on why he did or didn't do things, but you can question how strong he is from some of these decisions. Not strong enough to be away from home?

 

Basically, where ever he has gone, he's played. No adversity. No red shirt, no injury to overcome. No "buried on the depth chart". In fact, you can make the case that he went to Wyoming because he was gonna play but got homesick.

 

So, I can still question his desire. And I do.

 

Is all of this what really happened? I don't know, and I don't claim to either. But does Doctson seem like a guy that loves football? I mean, REALLY loves playing football? No, not to me he doesn't.

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I know the story, he transferred from Wyoming to TCU to be closer to home. Was a walk on. We know the story. Couple of things to consider though. Why not just walk on to TCU right out of  high school, if that was so important? Or, why not stay at Wyoming? I suppose there are several different ideas on why he did or didn't do things, but you can question how strong he is from some of these decisions. Not strong enough to be away from home?

 

Basically, where ever he has gone, he's played. No adversity. No red shirt, no injury to overcome. No "buried on the depth chart". In fact, you can make the case that he went to Wyoming because he was gonna play but got homesick.

 

So, I can still question his desire. And I do.

 

Is all of this what really happened? I don't know, and I don't claim to either. But does Doctson seem like a guy that loves football? I mean, REALLY loves playing football? No, not to me he doesn't.

 

They rejected him at TCU to begin with. That's where he wanted to play from the beginning. And he was buried in the depth charts when he walked on and had to work his way into being a starter then to the #1 WR. Listen to his HC at HS and TCU. They have both recounted how important football is and how hard he works. So the no adversity thing means you very little about him, just some superficial stuff. So question his desire if you want but there are no facts to support it. 

 

[mistertim]

Yeah I feel pretty confident that being a walk-on WR at a top tier D1 school automatically means you're buried on the depth chart when you start out.

[Malapropismic Depository]

It's been a while since anyone's piled on Lauvao, so to keep things in perspective, I'm gonna say it's Lauvao's fault that Doctson don't care.

[NickyJ]

30 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

It's been a while since anyone's piled on Lauvao, so to keep things in perspective, I'm gonna say it's Lauvao's fault that Doctson don't care.

Lauvao is boring because everyone admits he's bad. Doctson is more exciting to give "he's soft because he doesn't look like he's on drugs" hot takes because that's actually debatable.

[UKskins]

I don't get the impression Doctson doesn't care. I get the impression he is a quiet guy whose confidence is a little bit shot at the moment. I don't know enough about him to make a definitive opinion, and I guess that's kind of the point, he's a reserved guy who isn't going to go out there and be the Swearinger type loudmouth of the WR group (something the WR corps sorely lacks in my opinion) but to extrapolate that into him not caring about football is kind of a stretch. He's been dinged up most of the time he has been here, and you can question his toughness for that, but imo that's linked to, but not the same as his desire to play football.

 

Whether he is a good WR and worthy of the first round grade is a different question entirely though.

[NoVaSkins21]

I don't think it's a question about whether he cares or not.  It's more about whether he's any good.  The guy can't make the catches when it matters.  The lone exception was the long catch vs Seattle last year.  Last year vs KC was a prime example where if he comes down with it, it's a TD they win the game.  I think there was one this year vs GB when he had it on his hands and could've brought it in but it went out of bounds.  You can count on him to not make the catch more often than the other.  Big disappointment so far.

[Alexa]

If Doc were a mid round pick no one would care. I'm over the guy. He's never going to be a productive NFL player.